Kachros.4751

I dont agreeBecause having damage is fine so long as you are squishy for having that damageHowever stealth and superspeed provide a means of sustain that it should not have even if that stealth only drops traget for a second or two. A second or two with super speed can make a massive difference in positioning which can provide sustain that it otherwise wouldnt have. High damage but squishy is fineLow damage but more sustain is fineHigh damage and high sustain is not fine unless you are a snail.I do count mechanics like stealth as added sustain because its a drop target and assuming nothin walks into the traps and you dont get revealed its time you have to take the advantage or wait for cds. Needs to be changed for a few reasons.No class should be able to add stealth + superspeed to its near its entire utility kit if this existed for something that only worked on necro or warrior skills you wouldnt agree with it and would say the rune should be removed because broken bonuses and only works with one two other classes.Secondly it only works for 2 classes DH and Ranger so saying that DH is the only one that uses it really has no value in your point. Other classes dont use it because other classes dont have traps to activate the strongest part of the rune. DH at a base level likely needs very few changes and nerfs to traps are not one of them.The constant burn when speared maybe could be looked into because there is no way to avoid 12k incoming condi damage once speared unless you go invuln or have the power to spam clears our the wazooo. True shot could maybe get a slight shave too. Other than that imo DH would be fine imo. But as it sits right now you are generally fighting the runes mechanics and not the traps or other DH skills and thats not a good thing. Its similar to the Mad king rune situation which was nerfed a while back. Only like 2 classes were making use of it but it was super powerful when used with their low cd elite skills Yet this class is squishy and dies to even a thief in about 4 seconds. Most of the traps does damage and can instnatly reveal them from stealth. actually casting f1 is the most stupid thing a burn dh can do unless they take the virtues traitline (to allow passives constantly) but should they use f1 its easily dodged. I mean its not like you see trap rangers being viable... and its because NO ONE stands in the aoes and so they dont die... literally just do that with guardian and there wouldnt be an issue but most people cant press W out of the aoes. If you try to argue that it has good damage offnode then its because of the f1 passive again which is why i say it should be nerfed and not the rune itself.

This is the most ridiculous backwards thinking. You say "don't kill the class because of a rune"......... and then you go and propose to nerf the class and leave the rune. Please, can we just get this rune removed before anyone else has any great ideas about how to "fix" guardian. Please. Hmmmm, reaper benefits from Rune of Speed. I know! Lets remove all swiftness from Reaper! Yeah, that's the appropriate fix /facepalm. Thanks for proposing your opinion instead of trashing others opinion, would love to see your take on a class that is easily killable but just because people cant play around it, it should die. The fact people are unable to play around a small aoe spam class is the reason everyone wants it dead, the stealth on trapper rune isnt even stackable and the class dies to any sort of burst off node. Just because most of the community lacks the brain capacity to say "oh aoes, lets not go in it" they just die and blame the class being OP. The example you gave with reaper isnt a good one either as the speed rune doesnt contribute to both its mobility AND damage, if you wanna nerf trapper rune change the stats so it doesnt get condi damage and duration. There are multiple ways to kill a dh. What i said allows the build to still be viable if in the right hands and therefore isnt a new player friendly build with insane value.

Im too lazy to read through and see if anyone agrees with what i think but. Nerfing or removing the rune is absurdly stupid and shouldnt be done, the main issue is that it has too much damage regardless if it uses that rune or not. If you want to make it still playable (even though its not the best because people are learning how to counter it) then just nerf the f1 passive and possibly the spirit sword vulnerability stacks or how many hits it has. There we go, less damage but still good node pressure and decent survability alone and you dont kill the class because of a rune that you dislike. Im not justifying that trapper rune is perfectly fine but its only used for burn dh and nothing else thats remotely useful. So why change the rune when there are multiple other possibilities?

This would be really questionable to do in a meta that has 3 nearly unkillable meta classes. Kills dont really show skill and especially when pvp is mainly build wars instead of requiring actual skill. Im not denying that people with skill can win its just unfair to those who choose not to build abuse.

Ive seen this been mentioned a few times but this can only be put into unranked tbh, this was basically hotjoin (when pvp was more alive) but you cant just yeet a completely different player into ranked or ATs and even then unranked is rarely played just due to the lack of rewards that ranked provides. In order to do this you would need to increase the time before the match begins then, at least personally i have 1-2 min loading screens and that would instantly lock me into the class even if i wanted to swap. Id say their whole build, not just the amulets so you can understand the builds role etc. This shouldnt be allowed as it would encourage spying enemy builds to counter comp and lead to a toxic competitive stage and overall just a rerolling competition. This aspect of pvp is why its risky to lose, it encourages skill to some extent if you had 5 second respawn timers its unfair to those who live due to lack of cooldowns and a constant bombardment of players coming from base. "give the losing team an advantage" this doesnt really need explaining (but if so then here we go, the matches now, even though not entirely, they show the skill level of players and better players should win, giving the losing team an advantage is simply unfair. The rest i agree with just these ones im a bit sketchy on.

retaliation had seen its fair share of dumb builds in the recent past and were nerfed appropriately, guardian is basically the only class with high uptime of retaliation and has seen the most brainless builds to date. The class with the most retal had the most degen aoe builds and increasing retal will just improve "retal and heal" builds that are just straight up unfun to play against as well as lowering the skillcap of pvp builds yet again.

I don't believe this to be the case, while the build does have some really strong aspects such as a large amount of stealth and high condition output as well as condition damage. Its not almighty. In most cases it will be too slow to catch up to another thief and then get low value. It gets cucked by reveal and/or a person staying on them. Just because people dont know how to deal with it doesnt make it OP. (Granted the shadow arts traitline is a bit strong) Just to add, every class has a good amount of condition remove and if you fail to utilise it correctly and know how to avoid thief then of course your team/enemy will die xd.

This was really questionable to read i wont lie. As thief you need to play or at least understand other classes to have any sort of value in a +1. You can't treat every class the same and in order to do that you need to somewhat adjust your playstyle to each class you attack. Knowing what to interupt etc. Granted there is only like 4/5 good thieves left in EU now (unsure for NA) there is not a single onetrick in them. They can play and have played other classes.

Just adding, please dont put your opinion on balancing classes if you dont understand anything about it.

I dont record my gameplay however im on numerous streams of Tpot casting ATs, other thieves that are better than me (who you should watch if you want to see what a good thief can actually do) is Pain Yamashiro, Fly or sindrener for EU thieves (idk many NA ones) I wont lie i checked you out in pvp and noticed that youre currently in gold division and that tells me that you have never seen a good thief hence why you assume its weak (or possibly you just dont know how to play it yourself) If you cant accepts facts from a player who has played at high levels AS thief then its a waste of time to convince you otherwise.

What? Ranked and Unranked arent all there is to pvp that means something, ATs show who has a better team/players, ranked is a circus of players with 0 idea how to rotate and understand their class much like you with thief. Im fairly certain if you fail to understand how strong thief is youre the same type of person as you just described :)

I would like to add, thief alone in ranked isnt good as you need a good duo partner to play with. Plus as the majority of pvp doesnt even know how to properly rotate people are unable to remotely get any value from thief but thats just due to a lack of skill. However thieves that have said skill can get more value than most others.

Genuine question, have you ever been in any version of pvp that isnt ranked? ATs, mAT, or the like? I play thief myself and can have more impact than most players due to its absurd mobility, damage and burst/CC. Its also the cornerstone of pretty much every good composition in pvp teams as it has been the past many years. You would not be able to find any "good" team that doesnt use thief. If they dont then its a simple throw :)

im sorry please tell me this is a joke like thief is one of the top 3 classes right now xd

Where are you getting these numbers from on thief? backstab hits at max 6k and the biggest number ive seen on thief is 10k with full damage heartseeker, but reaper alone has huge consistant damage already and letting it have a 1.2k range 10k burst alongside the rest of the kit is a bit too much and would be an issue if it became the meta teamfighter again. Though as you mentioned, it shouldnt have a 5k power spike on a condi build which is a slight issue too. I mean i play this myself and i make mistakes but can get away without an issue, shadow arts is an absurdly dumb traitline but its actually daredevil that does most of it, allowing 3 dodges, damage reduction, weakness, movement condis just removed on dodge etc, and the mobility comes from the spammable shortbow 5 as well as the dodges/perma swiftness which was mentioned in a balance discussion so im hoping it will be nerfed so that thief is actually killable. I mean this isnt true in the slightest, if you duoQed as 2 meta classes you will most likely hard carry (if you are good enough) and even with players that are bad they can still get value JUST because of how the meta class currently is (i mean it requires low knowledge in most cases) but you're literally saying you are encouraging hacking and cheating in the game like what?

I thoughtt about that xd but "lightning" could be used as "fast" right? :D

Tbh i never really thought about this since the situation rarely happened to me but it is pretty dumb considering the damage is about 100, right now its not as bad since neither ranger or ele is meta right now and neither see much play compared to other classes but for when ranger is no longer gatekeeped (mainly core) this will be a more prominent issue and should be addressed before it becomes a larger issue, fullcounter isnt too much of an issue considering lightning reflexes is also a dodge but procing the CC of shocking aura with a stunbreak defeats the entire purpose of the skill and the damage has 0 impact anyways and so it is a pretty dumb mechanic.

Okay, tempest isnt even viable atm (granted shocking aura is pretty annoying and near impossible to counterplay other than just not hitting them).Dwarf renegade (shiro/dwarf not included) is being looked at and will receive a nerf in the near future so that soon wont be much of an issue. (i hope)Decap is the only vialbe build within ranger right now but even then it severely lacks damage and only has sustain, however this is also getting looked at and will receive a nerf.While burn guardian does have a slight stupid amount of burn application its been discussed quite a bit however i cant say much regarding if it will get a nerf or not however its quite easy to kill and avoid.Holosmith/nades were brought up before as even after 2/3 nerfs it was still S tier however it should also get a nerf within the next patch.And regarding necros, i doubt they will be touched however spinal shivers (focus 5) and lich "should" eventually be looked at as it has a bit too much utility, focus 5 doing huge damage (depending on the enemy it can do 10k) and lich being a autoattack spam with huge value.

You arent entirely wrong but not fully correct either, after the CC damage nerf warrior became a lot less active, granted CC on its own is pretty rewarding since anet also removed a lot of stability and therefore allows a lot of bursts (considering warrior has a good amount of CC) but it lacks a little something to be A tier and even so it gets gatekeeped by numerous other classes (such as thief, renegade and holo, among a few others) should said classes be nerfed and warrior buffed a little it would definitely see a lot more play.

Unranked is a kitten piece of kitten kitten. One reason for this is full teamQ...Nah, its the lack of skill in it, while in ranked there are still bad players its covered by multiple decent/good ones whereas (at least for me) unranked is mostly unskilled players

The ability to have more than 2 people in a party to Q is what made pvp so unbalanced years ago and thats why they removed it. Having only 1 ranked Q for this is kinda bad i guess and so 2 ranked Qs would be better, one Q for solo/duo and another for trio or more. But even with duo Q its still quite unbalanced as 2 players on the correct builds can hard carry any team asking for more than that would be quite silly with that knowledge.

While this does actually have the same idea as 2v2/3v3 and its mainly about the build i believe it would actually rely a bit heavier on skill compared to the 2v2/3v3. I've wanted something like this for a while so would be a nice idea.

I am, in fact, playing the same game and have played said game at a high level for the past 3 years understanding every matchup and class viability. I'm saying this as i am in the pvp balance discord and burn dh was spoke about a bit as it has a high consistency of huge burn stacks. If you watched previous mATs or the DL tournament you would also realise that burn dh, condi herald wereboth used in high level teams and is used in even platinum 3/lege games which i have personally witnessed, and played with/against. I also played renegade myself with 0 previous gameplay on it and gained a stupid amount of value. If you are defending a class that has barely any counterplay and is non intractable for a long period of time. There are many people who would agree with me, all of which at a high level so please understand the ability of each class. Maybe once you try to 1v1 or 1v2 a good kalla rene you will realise how stupid it is for the game :)

id like to also say the fact you just said "CC the spirits" or "dont dodge in the red" as a way to counter renegade shows you have either no idea about it or have faced renegades with 0 clue what they are doing please actually comprehend the builds capacity and value.

There is honestly just no way to get the kill on a decent renegade without playing holo, burn guard or condi herald (burn guard n condi herald cant get the full kill because of kiting), and holo struggles alone hence why a thief +1 is needed. You just named THREE class counters to the rene yourself. And a +1 which is standard to counter any sidenoder. What is your problem, seriously? My problem is that its unhealthy for the game. I enjoy pvp and i want to see people get punished for a lack of skill but renegade stops that, and if you noticed the 3 builds i mentioned are also in a stupid postion of a spammable high value class which are also complained about. These classes dont "coutner" the build other than burn guard but kiting exists so that doesnt matter anyway. If you dont understand the matchup of these fights then dont talk about it. But a +1 wouldnt even matter as an enemy thief would do the same and in that case the renegade and thief would win. Understand the builds and their matchups before assuming anything and aknowledge the fact renegade is gatekeeping EVERY other sidenoder as its leaps ahead of them.