Jeran.6850

If only thief players would stop to act so...special

Maybe it will will interrest you to know, that the average power staff ele that is supposed to not only survive a 50v50 engagement, but also beeing on top of arc-dps damage evaluation. It is at about 14k, no toughness, no supportive traitlines. It doesnt typically run any stability (ok...there is Lahaar...), and does run Twist of Fate as his stunbreak, leaving one utility spot for lightning flash (which doesnt stunbreak, and is only 900 range), and one spot which they are "free" to choose... personally, i still believe "unravel" is the most logical choice.Its condi removal (8) is also his heal skill, which sounds nice...till you realize its a 2 3/4 sec channeled skill, easily interruptable. We dont have stealth. We dont have your evades (on staff). We dont have something like shortbow as a secondary weapon. We dont hit anyone for 13k by pressing a single button, aside of literaly all stars in universe aligne (or fighting a keep lord with all buffs up).Its a little bit hard to have sympathy with your "hard life", as a thief.

The result will be that the majority of glass canon tryhards want downstate to stay, because they rely on being rezzed all the time Downstate supports bad players and outnumbering ! Thief, rev, warrior, ranger and mesmer can play "glass canon" with a pretty big safety net, its a little bit unfair to call the remaining possible power classes "tryhards".

Ah... i think i know now. Nevermind.

i didnt even know exactly what "Your head" means... but a asume, its not something very nice

Sorry, maybe theres a problem again with me using a language i am not that comfortable with... i wasnt attacking him at all. It was a kind of "agreeing"...

That already happened. It was the poll which is claimed as evidence, that "the majority" wants the downstate to be removed - in every other (non-cheated) poll it was obvious that there are more people that wants it to stay, then people wanting it to be permanently removed. But i am pretty sure, you do know that ;.)

...you are good in repeating. Make out the best of it!

SOME people love it. The majority doesnt. Im fine with this event, actually - i will not die not playing a certain computer game for a week- but just looking at your Avatar picture lets me...somehow laugh and chuckle in the same moment. Enjoy your run while literally invincible. Must feel great.

By the way, your "minstrel gear" comment make it sound like YOU are a zerger...i dont know about a single roaming build using minstrels (other than troll-builds, of course).Maybe you can ask someone for help, if you REALLY think there is nothing to play than minstrel, while downstate is in the game.

It really doesnt contribute to the topic, but i dont pve, sorry that your generalized accusation doesnt fit.I also play every class in this game in wvw, with only mesmer beeing left out (because i dont like the colours, the butterflies, the awfull sounds and so on).Its so cheap to accuse everyone saying anything against the " no downstate", or in this case, the (still) best roaming class, to be a pve person, or otherwise at best a "mindless" zergling, cuddling the commander.

Is this a joke post? So, you are playing the class that was always the best in picking favorable fights, then just leave when things go downhill. What do you even want to say by saying AND you was on s/d core thief... that you are playing a "high skill"-thief in a way?And how convenient you forgot to mention your second weapon (set). What may it be...hm. Ah, thats sooo hard to guess, pleeaase help me out here... By the way, i do to play core thief. From time to time, when i am lazy.

Then both elementalist/weaver and scrapper have a "shroud" because they can spam barrier (and they do that alongside invulns and blocks, scrapper even have access to barrier). Every player with sanctuary rune and sufficient self healing output can also have a "shroud". Yet you don't see that much elementalists focusing on barrier and scrappers don't seem to break balance despite their access to barrier, block, invuln and stealth. In "numbers", the scourge don't output more barrier than the other 2, it can grant himself more in a single instance but less often than both elementalist/weaver and scrapper. Why the comparison with professions far harder to play like ele, rarely seen these days after the too many to count nerfs? Fundamentally speaking , necro is the easiest class in the game and any buff to the class results always in a massive flood of players abusing necro. Regardless of what get added..you get nerfed soon after because too efficient for how easy is to play so unless they add a very complicated elite with micromanagement.....I don't see how necro can hope to one day have access to block or stealth Ele is hard to play? Or did you forget when all ele had to do was press 2 stance buttons and run at a player for good damage because perma unstoppable stability and auto punishing anything with the strongest condi in the game if they dared to get within melee range.There are some version of ele that are indeed hard to play but dont try to lump every ele build in the same difficulty ranking. Same can be said about necro really while many builds are easy to play there are some that are rather difficult to play. Thus comparisons can be made. i will not interfere with what it seems, a personal thing between you two...but in what gamemode exactly is activating primordial stance a "I whin" button, other than pvp, on a node, and against opponents that dont have: eyesa single condi clearhigher range than 180 (thinking about necro, im sure they have a higher range no matter the weapon choice....no?)condi application, like burn from primordial stance, is able do be simply undone by dodging out of the (laughable 180 range) of the skill.-the same way people are able to dodge out of a necro well i guess (or not, if you are... well, unaware, or in an other way restricted)Pointing fingers at abiliys of the past (stab on every stance) doesnt really help. Its GONE!

Why is this in the pvp forum, when the arguments are mostly wvw based? Can you pvp guys PLEASE leave wvw out? Its amusing...not long ago, pvp people liked to look at wvw like its a pve+ game mode...now they use wvw as an argument for pvp balance, because both are suddenly equally "competitive"?? Maybe whe should ask Arenanet to nerf staff weaver and scourge (some more) in pvp, because... wvw large scale. Sounds very logical.On the topic of downstate: i couldnt care less if Arenanet removes it from pvp, but since "you" brought wvw in to play - it would be a desaster for that gamemode. I recommend to visit the wvw subforum, and have a look at the several threads about it, and the polls. Each and every time it becomes obvious, that the majority of players (that are even contributing in/to the forum) are AGAINST the removal of the downstate, and for good reasons (and no, its not the gold spend on finishers...wvw isnt THAT much pve...). Lets give it a try. What have to change, if the downstate will be removed? Stealth, invuln, superspeed, instant teleports, the initiative system, massive range opportunitys (like lb ranger, deadeye), aoe effectivity.... safe stomps, yes. And then, once again, stealth. Stealth in any, any, any way. What have to be equalized? Downstate hp and skills (so no necro pressing "1" in downstate for double effect, no rezz by pet for ranger, no ele "mist" form, no second chance for warrior....) I am all for the removal of the rally-mechanic btw, even though my (14k hp) staff weavers kitten has been saved many, many times by it in wvw. I could go on, but it feels like talking against walls, as a certain type of players do not stop to request the removal of the downed state, but dont think about the consequences that HAVE to follow... which, by a high chance, will destroy, or at least heavily cripple, the classes "you" have so much fun playing during the "no downstate"- events in wvw. At least, leave wvw out of your pvp arguments - please. And it would be also nice (and a sign of an actually working brain): do not talk about class effectivity provided by golem numbers and raid relevance. Its irrelevant for pvp, for wvw, its not relevant at all outside of PVE!!!YES, i know this time it isnt brought up... i just couldnt forget what nonsense happened so many times before in this forum, if its about "balance"for pvp and smallscale wvw, just to have a (weird) argument. Crazy.

And once again, people do forget about context within class balance for gamemodes, scale, and sorry, yes - difficulty- to perform well without losing what the class "permission" is, and even worse...they look at the wiki, claiming that POTENTUALLY Weaver have a higher barrier access than scourge, or even an easier time to achive it.This heavily reminds me of the people claiming, that, according to wiki, elementalists have the highest access/amount of stability of all classes ... but not announcing that, while somehow true, these build are not viable at all within their role, no matter if "heal" tempest or (good joke btw if its about stab uptime) a large scale staff weaver. Dadnir, can you please post a usefull weaver barrier build in the range of wvw large scale, where (stacked up) scourge is STILL the most asked for class after firebrand? Because im sorry, if you play the scourges abilitys you have listed in 1v1 encounters, you may be right, and still...somehow wrong, as there are better alternatives. Its like asking for staff weavers to be as much resilient as core necro, or as high and quickness enhanced damage as a reaper(while still much more tanky, at least in shroud), than a weaver in an corresponding stat setting - in 1v1.And IF you are talking about 1v1, or small scale... please relate the weavers tankiness, and its offensive abilities while equipped the same stat values, to reaper, do not compare it to scourges, as that would be like tempests during hot asking arenanet for gaining atleast 30% more damage ...because they HAVE to use the water line, which they still have to use years after pof hits, after the "overall" nerf that also happend to "healing" (...even i am confused now somehow...). I was always wondering how necro players asked for one buff after another, because "low mobility", while it isnt true at all. Necro have to pick an offhand weapon for gaining swiftness (btw eles have to pick an offhand weapon to get access to invuln...which is a useless pick if that ele is not about doing 1v1 against thiefs and rangers), and one utility, to have an almost 100% uptime of swiftness - without having to pick a hole traitline (arcane) "just" for the sake of personal swiftness, having to constantly switching in and out of air attunement.With infight mobility, all the same: while the worm is an option, while there is spectral walk, and sand swell on scourge... necro players love to point fingers at eles, but never asking why there is almost no viable weaver build in wvw, from roaming to large scale, that do not HAVE to equip lightníng flash, and twist of fate, leaving ONE utility spot for something else...According to Dadnir, earth shield must be the most logical pick for any weaver for the remaining utiliy slot... while in reality, only roaming/smallscale lightning rod weaver would ever take it, but not because of the barrier gain in the first place.... With that said...i am not against a block skill for necro (preferebly on warhorn), but highly against stealth access. There is still reaper, there is still the tank/control/corrupt monster that core necro is.And there is way to much stealth nonsense in wvw already.

There isnt any "meta" class in large scale wvw (which is what the topic is about, btw) that needs personal invuln or instant teleport, as long as you can savely stay within the reach of your scourges, firebrands, tempests, and scrappers abilitys - and why even bringing up teleports? Scourge always had been a class played at the frontline, or even UPFRONT it. The idea is to stay at your safest position while gaining massive support, using your classes abilitys for maximum effect - not to "port out". There is that one class that can not do that, or better to say, the build played by that class - or maybe why you even bring it to large scale- power staff weaver.There is a simple reason why damage weavers are most likely not in reach of defensiv or offensiv boons, cleanses, barrier, stab... (or only if deciding to do so, when feeling about to die, thereby losing almost all its offenive abilitys)- it is because in order to do noteworthy damage, the have to get, somehow, to the BACKLINE of the opposing group. And therefore, yes... they do allocate lightning flash in their utility bar, they do the "burning retreat trick"... and still somehow necro players act like its a big burden to use an utility slot for their personal defence- like WHAT???Sorry, lets get awake here, scourges intend was to be a SUPPORT based elite spec of neco... pretty much like tempest for ele. Strong in groups, weak(er) in roaming/smallscale. ...and by the way, you maybe know by know why staff weavers are NOT a meta class since.... 3 month after pof. Its GRN for years now, with just a sprinkle of other classes that are barely accepted ("cleanse" scappers may be an exception). And then... there is this other thing you did. Please do not change "time stamps" willfully. The topic has been brought up after the "hotfix" changes to scourge shades, and wells.I will not say for what ever reason are lying if it comes about necro is for wvw ...but i can tell about my experience this morning (eu), running with 30 people at 8 am: 5 Soulbeast3 Druids1 Tempest2 weaver (me on staff, the other guy/girl did play fresh air scepter/x1 burn dh (the commander...)1 chrono2 scourges...and 6 or 7 reapers. Yes, the numbers of scourges are dwindling...it still thems, necro still provides the biggest part of people playing wvw.

Sorry again if i sound ...unfriendly. Keep in mind (again), this is not the language i am used to express my opionions, or what is going on in my mind.I wish all the people that are still caring about wvw, the best of luck, and ....i wish we can stay here playing this game together.WvW in GW2 is amazing, even after 8+years - at least, to me. Sometimes frustating, but most of the time- engaging, stressfull, and maybe just because of that- a lot of fun.

I wish somehow, but its still way more safe, and convinient, to just your staff weaver to tempest.And it its feels like a joke to hear that from you, especially (no offence)... i am pretty shure you know, that guild groups have been about to deny any ele build any excess to their comp, after the february balance, aside of, maybe, aura share tempest...but even that had a big question mark on it.

....must be the reason why there are 20 scourges in a squad, but only 1 or 2 staff weavers, if at all.... necro players just have inherently more "skill" must be the reason, and they like to show it...No?

Ah, there you are, Nimon. And just how i expecting it, you are once again showing your extreme bias against eles. I really wonder what happend to you. Its sad, really..scourge and (staff) weaver, both are aoe damage dealer... whats your fight even about? There is like ONE thing you can play as a staff weaver, which is an almost bersi (marauder at max)/rune of scholar/strenghts, fire/air traitet, sigil of force/bloodlust using build as a PRIME example of a glass cannon... and even on a build like that, your only skill of any real importance, meteor shower, does give that dedicated staff weaver numbers like "you critically hit for 1999 (2500 is avoided by barrier), or even "zero", because stacking barrier - up to crazy 50% of the players hp by barrier is shared to by the scourges (as you, for sure, know). Insanity. And while a staff weaver have to give up almost every personal survivability, and any group support-scourges can choose any stat comp that they like, from trailblazer to celestial, marauders or even berserker stats, and EVERYTHING in between, while NOT losing their ability to play at least THREE different ways to build and play their Scourge- as barrier sharing, boon corrupts, heavy aoes/area denial stays almost the same. You think its equally "easy" to play an power based backline 15k hp staff weaver, like an 20k (+10k barrier) marauder scourge at the front line? Really?? You think its a hard task to be at the front line, provided all boons by the firebrands, all barriers by fellow scourges, all buffs by the revenants? The warrior bubbles? And you are not even a melee class, Scourges do have a 1100 to units range at least- just 118 less than a staff weaver (to keep it simple, not going over every ability). Its so funny, how you make its sound like playing "backline ele" is easy, while it can be downed in an glimpse of an eye, by any thief, mesmer, ranger, holo, rev, or (even) warrior, if he wanted to.Scource, staying at the frontline, while he is an melee/midrange/long range damage dealing "SUPPORT" class on its own... Maybe i find that youtube video that was posted 2 weeks ago, of a "poor squishy" marauder scourge running havoc with its blob in wvw. Maybe i will post it for fun... but i dont think so, i dont know how to link a video here. Its not important anyway. Staff weavers are for sure as easy to play like scourge, in large scale wvw....

why is a "plus" sign turned into a a point after posting.. annoying

the pulls of course.

Anyway, the problem to me isnt aoes on walls, but the differences in effectiveness between doing "damage" from the outside of the wall, in opposition to "damage" done from inside (or better, from above).Lets take the Mesmer pull as an example. If a skill like that is able to pull people that are out of actual sight, from the ground, and over the the wall, right into the opponents from the outside... why is the same skill not able to pull opponents to the INSIDE of an object, just by casting that pull at a wall from the INSIDE? Why is it much more difficult and risky, to try to "aoe" FROM a wall, other than standing outside and just ...cover everything in aoes, cc-skills, everylasting marks and shades, and - yes- meteors.