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Taril.8619

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Posts posted by Taril.8619

  1. @"Tails.9372" said:I don't mind things being more specific as long as they work for what it is intended e.g. I don't think critical strikes needs to offer something for condi builds as the name already implies a focus on power damage.

    You say that, but then we have a ton of Condi on Crit effects.

    Such as Traits (Barbed Precision, Burning Precision, Bloodlust, Sharpened Edges, Radiant Fire, Sharpshooter, Chemical Rounds, Sharper Images)As well as Sigils (Earth, Blight, Torment)

    With several classes having their crit focused lines being condi heavy ones too (Curses, Dueling, Arms, Skirmishing, Radiance, Firearms)

    Including things like converting Precision into Expertise or Condi Damage. Increased crit chances against targets with conditions on them etc.

    So, no. The name "Critical Strikes" doesn't really imply a focus on Power damage.

    Also, yes, being too specific is a bad thing.

    Since you then end up with 3 traits that do the same thing and you then just pick the 1 that is objectively the best. Which stifles the spec when it is used not to mention stifles overall build diversity because it means you only have 4 (Or less) specs to choose from if you're playing builds that don't fit that exact build the spec is hyper focused on. I.e. Necro never picks Curses outside of a Condi build. Thus, Power and Support builds simply have 4 options for specs to use in their builds. Add in the fact that Death Magic is awful then they only have 3 specs to use. As a result everyone runs Spite + Soul Reaping or Blood Magic + Soul Reaping for their Power/Support builds.

  2. If I'm correct, it should be any. It just defaults to "Heavy" because that one is ordered first.

    I know it's this way with other such things (For example, I recently did the Druid Stone up to the final stage and it said it required the "Heavy" shoulders from Draconis Mons, but then it counted my Light version that I took)

  3. @Fenella.2634 said:Right now I'm replaying LS2. To me, Caithe having known about all that for 20 years or so and never having discussed it with anyone, not even the Pale Tree apparently, really seems like a flaw in the story. Even stranger how she - the only one who knew anything and who could have been at least somewhat prepared mentally - fell for Mordremoth's influence so easily and had so much trouble deciding whom to trust throughout LS2 / HoT. If Wynne had died just recently, okay. But all that happened so long ago. It's really hard to believe that someone as intelligent as Caithe just... kind of ignored all the info and did not do anything with it, except keep it a secret.

    Well, she was told the rammifications of the knowledge of Sylvari being Mordremoth's minions becoming wide-spread by Wynne. It could have caused the end of the Sylvari if other races found out and decided to exterminate the Dragon Minions. Heck, HoT shows how quickly many people turned on the Sylvari even after so many years of gaining trust to be in positions of respect.

    As far as Mordremoth's influence on Caithe, she mentions in Bloodstone Fen, during LW3 that she was having a hard time telling apart Morty's influence and the call of her Wyld Hunt. Given that both would have been urging her to do things and presumably they'd both feel very similar (A call from Morty would likely happen from the Dream as that's where his power lies, hence going their to destroy his mind at the end of HoT. While the call of the Wyld Hunt also comes from the Dream)

    Also, what could she have done with it? Was she going to single handidly go and kill Morty and prevent him from seizing control over Sylvari? Was she going to tell other Sylvari and risk them panicing or questioning their Wyld Hunt as the call of Morty (Potentially making them more susceptible to his call when he eventually awakened)? Was she going to tell other races and risk them turning on the entire Sylvari race?

    Let's not forget the fact that the awakening of Mordremoth is a direct result of a Sylvari having being coerced by his call. That of course being Scarlet.

  4. @Tails.9372 said:

    @"Taril.8619" said:As far as the creation of redundancy, that's simply because ANet won't update the core specializations, so many of them are stuck being utter trash, especially when compared to E-Specs.That's because e-specs have more focus. They are developed with a certain gameplay in mind that the weapon, the skills and the traits support. Regular specs don't have that kind of luxury. Take pistol, signets and critical strikes for example, there is little to no synergy here unless you play P/P and even then there is no underlying play style here. Signets don't even have an elite skill, this would be unthinkable for an e-spec. Why are the bonus effects of Signets of Power not "on crit" procs? I agree, core specs and the things they are related to should get an "update" or in some cases more of an overhaul.

    It's more than that.

    Core Specs suffer from bad traits, bad choices (I.e. Ele Water GM is 3x support traits) and outdated design (I.e. They are from a time when boons, especially potent ones like Quickness and Alacrity, were rare)

    In addition some of the issues with core specs is that they are too focused. That they are literally only designed for 1 particular build (For example, Necro Curses is pretty useless outside of Condi builds), while many E-Specs are more flexible in their usage because they lack this hyper-focused design, for example;

    • Power, Condi or Heal Tempest
    • Power or Condi Weaver
    • Power or Condi Berserker
    • Power or Condi Soulbeast
    • Power, Condi or Heal Scourge
    • Power or Condi Dragon Hunter
    • Power, Condi, Boonshare or Heal Firebrand
    • Power, Condi or Boonshare Chronomancer
    • Power or Condi Mirage
    • Power, Condi, Boonshare or Heal Herald
    • Power, Condi or Boonshare Renegade

    (I'll skip out on Thief, since even though Power/Condi variants of DE/DrD exist, it's more due to the fact that no 3rd spec really provides anything specific for Condi and so you grab whatever utility you prefer)

  5. @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:That's fair enough, I guess my thoughts were more along diversity of game mechanics rather than themes. You are correct that thematically there are several places they can go, but how would they feel different mechanically to what we already have, while also feeling like a rogue? If the diversity comes from new steal mechanics and weapon sets, then I could see Bard for a support themed spec. That said, Pirate/Bandit would almost certainly get offhand sword or shield, both would have too much overlap with current acro sword builds to be distinct imo. Gambler could be a chance to go into totally new territory with no worries tho, I like that idea. The problem with elite specs imo is that the more you add to a class, the more redundancy you create (think vanilla acrobatics/feline grace vs daredevil, or basically anything in kits for engi vs scrapper or holo).

    It's also possible I'm a bit jaded, having played this game for years and currently being on a break to replay the elder scrolls games for nostalgia. So take what I say in that light haha.

    There's a lot of design space to work with to be honest.

    For a start, there's no Condi E-Spec for Thief and the only Condi weapon set up Thief has right now is P/D. So something could be done there to shake things up, especially if it focuses around alternate Condi's instead of Bleed (I've seen a few suggestions of Torch OH Thief for example, which could use Burning)

    I've also thought about some sort of "Duelist"/"Fencer" type Thief E-Spec, where their off-hand slot is empty and simply provides a Sigil slot and they get a new Skill 3, 4 and 5 for MH weapons (Pistol, Dagger, Sword)

    Pirate could focus around dirty tricks and bombs. Possibly even ending up with Axe(/Axe) as its weapons.

    Bandit could get Mace(/Mace) and be focused more around debuffs/CC. Slamming people with Vulnerability, Weakness, Cripple, Daze and some Stun. Potentially with Steal replaced by a simple attack or 2, creating a sort of Thief/Warrior hybrid class.

    As far as the creation of redundancy, that's simply because ANet won't update the core specializations, so many of them are stuck being utter trash, especially when compared to E-Specs.

    In addition, updating core specializations can increase the scope of what E-Specs can do, by limiting the number of traits that rely on specifically core class mechanics (I.e. If Thief didn't have traits that made their Steal do damage/apply conditions/daze then it would open up the potential to have an E-Spec that has an F1 that targets allies or is a targeted AoE instead (Also, it's super simple to make such a change, since you can just make it "After stealing your next attack applies X"))

  6. How realistic is this concern? Not very.

    The number of players whom will have a Legendary for every slot AND will never want to create any future Legendaries for different skins is likely a very small number.

    Since, one of the main draws for Legendaries right now, is the shiny skins. So as long as ANet keeps churning out new Legendary items, people will keep wanting the shiny new skins.

    Heck, just look at Legendary trinkets. People are farming those even though it's super easy to get full sets of Ascended accessories from any LW maps.

    Legendary armoury will help people with gearing multiple characters, but given that one of the parts of making a Legendary is doing Fractals, which also happens to give out Ascended gear, it's not like people with that many Legendaries are going to be short on Ascended quality gear to give to new characters.

    To be honest, I wouldn't even be surprised if they started letting people get Ascended armour/weapons from LW maps in the next expansion and make crafting entirely about Legendaries (Especially given that if people want to farm out several sets of LW Ascended gear of different stats, that'll use up a bunch of inventory space and nudge people towards buying Bank Storage and Equipment Templates. If the gear also costs a lot per piece, it might even up the value of Material Storage boosts too)

  7. I'd love that. Also at the same time... Buff all the garbage core weapons.

    Then it'd feel like getting like 18 brand new classes!

    Of course, the main issue with filling out missing skills in professions, is that Engineer is only missing 1 Elite skill, while every other class is missing 2 because of Engineer being wierd and having 5 utility skills in only 4 skill types (As opposed to the standard 4 utility skills in 5 skill types)

    Though, it would be possible for them to simply get an untyped Elite skill that ends up being something generically "Engineer-y" that isn't something that would fit into one of their existing skill types (Elixir/Kit/Gadget/Turret). Possibly also get an untyped Heal skill too so it feels better when other classes end up getting extra ones.

  8. @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:I really think ANet have painted themselves into a corner with elite specs, as honestly there isn't much more you can add to thief while keeping the thief flavour.

    Not really. Especially if you broaden your horizons from purely "Thief" into more of "Rogue".

    Which was done for Deadeye. DE isn't "Thief". You don't even steal anything. You mark targets and get a spell to cast from it (As opposed to Core Thief and Daredevil which still steals items from enemies)

    Under the "Rogue" archetype, there's tons of stuff that can be done with Thief that would be thematically appropriate:

    • Bard (Minstrel, Dirge, Troubador)
    • Pirate (Swashbuckler, Brigand, Corsair)
    • Bandit (Marauder, Outlaw, Mercenary)
    • Scout (Vanguard, Wanderer, Pathfinder)
    • Gambler (Cardsharp, Scoundrel, Swindler)

    Etc.

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:Edit; the other problem is that boons should be rare but powerful, but instead they are just powerful. You'd have to see an overall decrease in boon application for boon rip to shine, especially since the last big patch that nerfed our boon rip options from what they used to be. Pre patch you could reliably create windows to damage boon builds, now it's very hit and miss.

    Yeah, boon rip that isn't spammed to heck like Mesmer Sword clones is almost useless these days what with classes like Firebrand and Herald farting out boons left and right...

    Meanwhile, boon rip is actually useless in PvE because barely anything even generates boons (Heck, it's one of the contributing factors to Necro's anemic performance in PvE, the lack of anything for their ~12 billion boon corrupt effects to do anything on)

  9. Clones? No, that'd be super broken. Mirage Axe clones with constant Torment stacking. Sword clones constantly ripping boons. With nothing you could do about it. Not to mention, having Mesmer clones being able to solo tank literally anything in the game because lulinvincible (Like, moreso than current)

    That said, being invincible after you've used a Shatter (So they're running towards the target to blow themselves up) should be fine.

    Phantasms, yeah, untargettable and invincible for sure. Given that they basically take the place of a skill that does damage and summons a clone by doing the skill themselves then becoming one. Right now, it's as if Ranger used Maul but then someone could kill or CC a separate entity to stop it from working...

    To be honest, they could make Phantasms non-entities entirely. Simply make them into a skill animation that triggers after your initial skill usage. Given that's all they are since their major rework from being permenant and taking up a Clone spot.

  10. The Sacrifice? Really?

    I mean, the only dangerous part there is if you're trying to go for the 3 Elite Patrols in 3 minutes achievement.

    Herald of Balthazar has all of 1 actually dangerous attack, which is the slowly rotating wall of fire. Which you just... Don't stand in. Then she does 0 damage. (If you're in one of her rings... Just dodge out of it)

    Balthazar himself is a push over. Though I'm curious if going down actually progresses that fight due to how it ends anyway...

  11. @Asum.4960 said:I doubt players who don't already have 5000 Tomes of Knowledge in their bank anyway to power level anything instantly are the types of players who will utilize such leveling strategies and the question was more about a more natural, possibly new player, leveling experience (which imo core Nec provides one of the worst), at least that was my assumption going into this.

    People can get boosters easy. This leveling method is the most effective way of utilizing boosters.

    If it's about "Newbie" leveling experience, then Core Necro is still decent because innate survivability from Shroud, on top of good AoE from Epi/LC (Especially if they make use of the damage over time and run over to other mobs while things are at 80% hp with enough condi's on them to kill them)

    Especially given that Power builds don't "One shot" enemies, while leveling. They die pretty fast, but not exceedingly faster than Condi, even more so given how bursty Condi's are these days.

    If it's about a "natural leveling" process, then literally every class is the same. Since you're just smashing Hearts which the differences between builds ends up being negligible in overall time spent, especially when so many Hearts use non-combat related objectives.

    @Asum.4960 said:Although even when utilizing such methods, I imagine clumping enemies up with Mallyx and spamming Mace 2 on Rev for example would be faster than core Necro, but I gladly admit that I'm not an expert in non-tome speed leveling.

    I recently powerleveled a Rev and no, this is not the case.

    Rev just gets their butt handed to them 'cause they can't kite properly due to lacking lockdown. That and Call to Anguish, Frigid Blitz and Echoing Eruption are all insta-suicide buttons against high level enemies since they just one shot you if you get in range of them (To power level Rev using this method it's about taking enemies 1 at a time and spamming Banish Enchantment to keep them locked down inside Searing Fissure, which is a pretty horrible leveling experience, even Engie far surpasses Rev for this since Engie just hits enemies with Blowtorch + Glue Shot and moves on or pulls multiple enemies and uses Smoke Bomb + Fire Bomb + Glue Bomb then moves on)

  12. @Asum.4960 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:Rev is probably the fastest and Necro the slowest and what I would most likely boost.

    Off the top of my head, from best and quickest to worst to level, probablyRevenant > Guardian > Ranger > Mesmer > Warrior > Ele > Engie > Thief > Necro

    lel

    Necro is super easy leveling.

    Grab Epidemic and Lingering Curse ASAP. Then run around with exp boosters on mass killing enemies 9 levels higher than you.

    By far the best class for leveling, no other class has such an easy time mass slaughtering enemies like that.

    Considering a ranger pet can solo the leveling experience, nothing is hard there and it just becomes a matter of speed, at which core Necro, especially condi, is probably the worst at, considering everything else can just run around oneshotting mobs at that point.

    Except, it's much faster to level up using boosters and killing enemies 9 levels up.

    Which can only be done via conditions, due to glancing blows and the fact they'll one-shot you and your pets due to the level difference.

    Necro has the easiest time powerleveling like this, due to ranged Condi's, plus easy AoE cripple to help with kiting. With Epi and LC you also get good AoE condi application so can even pull multiple enemies at once.

    Of course, if you level slowly, only killing enemies the same level as you or 1-2 levels higher than you, then other classes can out perform. But that strategy has a much slower leveling speed overall.

  13. @Asum.4960 said:Rev is probably the fastest and Necro the slowest and what I would most likely boost.

    Off the top of my head, from best and quickest to worst to level, probablyRevenant > Guardian > Ranger > Mesmer > Warrior > Ele > Engie > Thief > Necro

    lel

    Necro is super easy leveling.

    Grab Epidemic and Lingering Curse ASAP. Then run around with exp boosters on mass killing enemies 9 levels higher than you.

    By far the best class for leveling, no other class has such an easy time mass slaughtering enemies like that.

  14. Rev probably.

    Class is pretty awful until you have enough HP's to unlock at least 2 full Legends, whilst also having some points into an actual Specialization. Given that the entire core mechanic for Rev is to swap legends because that's how you regain energy.

    Warrior is also a good class to boost, leveling up can be annoying with little sustain until you get Might Makes Right. Though, its current end-game is kind of so-so with them not being amazing in PvP modes and PvE-wise they end up being bannerslaves...

    Ele can also be annoying to level, given their squishiness. At level 80 they're pretty fun though, especially with Weaver/Tempest E-Specs.

    Beyond that, the rest of the classes are pretty fine for leveling up. Ranger can do whatever because pet tanks while you murderize everything. Guardian does Guardian things. Necro powerlevels like a beast. Thief levels fine, if a little tedious when relying on something like Sword autos and Black Powder spam.

  15. @mindcircus.1506 said:Anyone in this thread who doesn't believe this is a problem needs to get a new account and try to level their first toon again. A dear friend of mine picked up this game for the first time last year and this was a real issue.

    I literally have.

    It wasn't that long ago (Maybe like 2-3 months now) that I came back to this game after leaving pre-HoT.

    I came back, rolled a new Rev and got to work on leveling 1-80 to try and remember how to play the game. No Glider. No Mount. I didn't use any Exp boosters or level up scrolls (Level 80 boost from Expac or my plethora of level 20/30/40/50/60 scrolls from 1-7 year Birthday rewards).

    Just went around, doing Hearts and events.

    I had absolutely no issues. Even after hitting level 80, I had no issues playing without a mount (At this time I still didn't know how to get a mount)

    Even doing some Dailies was not too bad even without a mount. Though the most notable issue is many lower level zone events being short with few mobs spawning and people (Mostly Rangers with their Barrage) spam all their AoEs on them so they die instantly - Which as I was playing Rev, whom has melee or a single ranged weapon that has cast times measurable in years, made it impossible to get credit on the event.

    Engages on mounts at least buy a second to tag a mob, unlike constant Barrage spam that is dealing constant tick damage (Especially when overlapped by multiple people's Barrage's), not that I really see people using mounts to do events outside of ironically, level 80 ones where Raptor to group up the large masses of enemies for AoE's is useful.

  16. @Inculpatus cedo.9234 said:

    @"Taril.8619" said:I mean, I guess something like this could work? I mean, you can already pick up a Roller Beetle from next to the adventures/race locations (Which I often used before getting my own Roller Beetle so I could Nyoom across the map)

    The question is just how necessary is it to have something like this?

    I mean, pre-level 80 it's not so important since you don't have access to Daily Achievements so you don't need to do the 4 Events in a zone and Hearts and random trash enemies offer far more than enough EXP to get you to level 80. With World Bosses often being announced in chat well before they're active so even plebs can walk across the zone to get there in time.

    At level 80, a new player is likely going to end up playing the story out of order anyway, unless they sink in more than the cost of the expansions to buy gems to unlock LW2/LW3 which provide the set up for HoT and PoF respectively. Which is one of the issues for new players, is this paywall on the story (Compounded by the non-playability of LW1 which sets up for LW2 and provides all the information on who the random people you're stuck with for the rest of the game even are, meaning that even if a new player does instantly buy all the LW available and play them in order, they'll still be greeted by the feeling of "Who tf is Braham, Rox, Taimi, Marjory and Kasmeer and why should I care?")

    Pretty sure character L2+ have access to Daily Achievements. I know my characters do.

    It unlocks based on your highest level character on the account.

    Low level new players, have limited Daily Achievements.

  17. @Tulki.1458 said:

    • Engineer has support options but is suspiciously not allowed to have the same level of boon output as anyone else. Elixirs, healing kit, alchemy and inventions all have antiquated designs. Meanwhile, renegades can deal damage while pumping out massive amounts of boons. Druids can heal while providing tons of might. Firebrands are utterly insane at support. Engineers are allowed to heal or provide might (but not both) while dealing zero damage. Slotting inventions and alchemy should make you an excellent support class, but it doesn't even come close.

    My favourite comparison:

    Engineer with FULL Diviners for 100% boon uptime and HGH for 20% extra (Base) duration and 20% less CD:

    • Elixir B: 75% uptime on Fury, 3 Might, Retaliation and Swiftness for SELF ONLY.
    • Elixir U: 45% uptime on Quickness and Vigor for SELF ONLY.

    Herald with full Zerker 0 Concentration:

    • Facet of Light: 100% uptime on Regeneration for 5 players (10 with GM Trait)
    • Facet of Darkness: 100% uptime on Fury for 5 players (10 with GM Trait)
    • Facet of Elements: 100% uptime on Swiftness for 5 players (10 with GM Trait)
    • Facet of Strength: 100% uptime on Might for 5 players (10 with GM Trait)
    • Facet of Chaos: 100% uptime on Protection for 5 players (10 with GM Trait)
    • Shared Empowerment: 100% uptime on 25 Might stacks for 5 players (10 with GM Trait)

    All the while, having actual utility skills they can use that do things (While Elixirs only provide self boons as their singular effect)

  18. I mean, I guess something like this could work? I mean, you can already pick up a Roller Beetle from next to the adventures/race locations (Which I often used before getting my own Roller Beetle so I could Nyoom across the map)

    The question is just how necessary is it to have something like this?

    I mean, pre-level 80 it's not so important since you don't have access to Daily Achievements so you don't need to do the 4 Events in a zone and Hearts and random trash enemies offer far more than enough EXP to get you to level 80. With World Bosses often being announced in chat well before they're active so even plebs can walk across the zone to get there in time.

    At level 80, a new player is likely going to end up playing the story out of order anyway, unless they sink in more than the cost of the expansions to buy gems to unlock LW2/LW3 which provide the set up for HoT and PoF respectively. Which is one of the issues for new players, is this paywall on the story (Compounded by the non-playability of LW1 which sets up for LW2 and provides all the information on who the random people you're stuck with for the rest of the game even are, meaning that even if a new player does instantly buy all the LW available and play them in order, they'll still be greeted by the feeling of "Who tf is Braham, Rox, Taimi, Marjory and Kasmeer and why should I care?")

  19. @Kodama.6453 said:How is being number 1 at bosses relevant here?

    You brought up Chrono being number 1 on benchmarks.

    @Kodama.6453 said:You used the argument that heal scrapper is a used build for engineer to dismiss my suggestion for a support engineer e-spec, healing scrapper is not number 1 support at any boss out there, at best it is an ok-ish secondary support and needs to get put alongside a druid to actually work for raids.

    I used the argument that Scrapper is Bruiser/Support (But mostly used as Support) to dismiss the suggestion for a Condi/Support Engineer E-Spec.

    If you were suggesting a full on Support E-Spec for Engie, I would not have brought it up (Though I would have stated that I'd prefer to see a Condi E-Spec before a full Support E-Spec for Engie, given that Alch/Invention/Scrapper is 3 specs that provide support while Condi Engie has ONLY Firearms)

    I had to bring up Heal Scrapper, because you were adamant that Scrapper isn't used as Support. When it is literally the best support class in WvW and is on par with Scourge in PvE (Who also needs to get put alongside a druid to actually work for raids)

    @Kodama.6453 said:Can you show me any example of thieves wanting to distract you in some way to use "sleight of hand" tricks? They have stealing effects, but these don't really suggest that they are distracting you in some way to steal from you. You can also steal from somebody by being completely unseen by them in the first place, no distraction required at all.

    Steal. You know, the no-stealth requirement, letmejumponyourface steal. (Which if using real world pickpocketing as an example, would be sleight of hand via bumping into them while walking to distract them from you putting your hand in their pocket)S/D dual wield attack.P/D dual wield attack.Sword 2.Shadowstep.Preparations.

    @Kodama.6453 said:And using disguises to sneak around actually proof my point for mesmer. If you use a disguise, you are seen, just not as who you really are. Disguises have an "audience", they are seen, that's why they are disguises. But mesmers use their illusionary powers to trick your mind and let you see someone else than they truly are.

    Disguises literally by definition hide you. By concealing your identity.

    It's the exactly the same principle used by the Order of Whispers and Order of Shadows, where many of their members use disguises to hide in plain sight, so they can provide support and gather intel without being discovered.

    @Kodama.6453 said:If a bard-like e-spec finds into the game, I have no doubt that it will be a mesmer spec. Elite specs are also used to enhance core thematics of the classes. Thief doesn't have any relation to music at all. Meanwhile mesmer does, as I mentioned, there is a musical theme on their trident. Giving a music focused e-spec to the class which has no connection to music at all doesn't make sense if you have a class that actually does.

    Yes, Mesmer has an skill that has music notes on it. That's not really a "Musical theme" especially when you read the skill and note that it is just sonic energy, not music, not a song in of itself, but sonic energy (I.e. Literally the same thing that Dredge use with their sonic weaponry)

    This doesn't necessarily make Mesmer a musical based class with an affinity for music any more than saying they're a nature based class because their shatters turn into butterflies.

    As such, a Bard E-Spec is still open to classes that it would fit. Which would be:

    • Classes that currently cannot use Warhorn (As it's the most logical E-Spec weapon for a Bard), so Guardian/Thief/Engie/Mesmer/Rev
    • Classes that can utilize a "Bard" themed spec (Which is typically buffs/heals especially with Warhorn as WH typically provides boons), so Thief/Engie
    • Classes that fit with a "Bard" theme (Which is typically Rogue-ish using charm and magical words/songs), so Thief/Mesmer/Rev

    Meaning that from where I stand, Thief is the most likely class to get it. They could use a support E-Spec (Unlike Mesmer). They could utilize a Warhorn (Which typically brings boons for allies). They still fall into a category that makes sense being a Bard.

    Of course, ANet could go out there and give Rev a Bard legend to troll everyone. Invoke a Legendary Skald to sing tales about the other Legends they can invoke!

  20. From Snow Crows:

    "This build provides extremely high power burst, in addition to Condition Damage. This makes it an extremely versatile build that can be used on both condition and power oriented encounters."

    This can be noted through the very high power coefficients of some of their skills:

    Core Cleave/Bleeding Edge: 0.72Searing Slash: 2.4Symbol of Vengeance: 3.0Chapter 1: Searing Spell: 1.0Chapter 4: Scorched Aftermath: 3.2Sword of Justice: 2.88Symbol of Punishment: 4.2Zealot's Fire: 2.25

    This means that they get a bunch of damage from Ferocity which can outweigh the gains from the slight increase in Condi Damage from using Sinister.

  21. @Kodama.6453 said:

    @"Taril.8619" said:Power damage?

    Power chrono has the highest benchmark of every class against small hitbox targets in the entire game. If your argument is that we can't have a bruiser, because chrono "is the best tank build right now", then mesmer obviously also can't have a power damage elite spec, since chrono also is the best power elite spec currently.

    If you actually look at individual bosses though, rather than golem benchmarks, then Power Chrono is only number 1 on exactly 2 bosses, Xera and Sabir.

    Every other boss where Power builds are used, is heavily dominated by Power DH with exception of Qadim in which DD shines (Also is literally the only time DD is actually useful in PvE) with many of these bosses having Power Chrono not even make it to the top 3 for benchmarks.

    @Kodama.6453 said:Fair enough, but this role could also get fulfilled by a bard archetype. Nowhere is the rule written that a bard has to be a boonshare support.

    It could. But no-one has suggested such.

    @Kodama.6453 said:While it is true that there is some overlap between them, I think both are really different when it comes to their thematics. While thief usually has a darker theme and wants to stay hidden (in the shadows), mesmer is brighter and actually wants to be seen. Mesmer is all about delivering a big show for the audience with the illusions, the butterfly shattering....

    Mesmers want to be seen, then trick your mind with phantoms. Thieves don't want to be seen in the first place.And a bard belongs more in the first category, they want an audience, want to be heard and seen. Then the bard might use their music and dancing to manipulate you.

    Thieves deal mostly with slight of hand, rather than outright stealth. Which revolves around having people focus on where you want them to. (It's also the basis for Magicians. You use theatrics to make people focus in the wrong place so you can manipulate things to deceive them)

    It's exactly the same theme as is used by Mesmer with its Clones, trying to get people to focus on the illusion rather than them, which was doubled down on with Mirage and its abilities that makes the character and their illusions teleport to random positions.

    As such, Bard isn't a far cry from Thief (Even if you ignore the fact that gameplay-wise, Thieves don't spend much time in stealth these days what with many nerfs to stealth duration over the years... Instead they focus on shooting people in the face with pistols and rifles or jumping at people with a knife...)

    Also, Anise, Jennah and half of the story would like to disagree with you about Mesmer wanting an audience. Anise doing a lot of sneaking around to uncover plots and treason, Jennah hiding her powers as a Mesmer from the world (Until pushed into it where she unleashes her power and wrecks face) and the plethora of times Mesmer illusions have been used to stealth through places or don disguises (From the top of my head, Order of Whispers mission to sneak Demmi Beetlestone out of LA could be done via stealthing the PC and knocking out guards or giving Tybalt the illusion of Demmi and some "Lovely Apples", LW3 Lake Doric has the heart and story mission to disguise as a White Mantle and go ruin their base, Balthazar uses the enchanted mirror to disguise himself as Lazarus, PoF has the impersonation of whatshisface from the Mordant Crescent)

    So as I said, there's plenty of crossover with Mesmer and Thief. They pretty much focus on the same core themes. (Probably also why they're the 2 most hated classes in PvP, because they're both annoying to fight for the same reasons)

  22. @"Kodama.6453" said:If you see the chronomancer as"the best tank" for mesmers and also as a support, then mirage as a condition damage spec....What exactly do you imagine will mesmer get as an elite spec? It has to have some niche. You just say that you don't see how a bard could bring something new to mesmer, but what actually do you expect to see for mesmer?

    Power damage?Healing? (It could be a time to split "Support" specs between Healing ones such as Druid/Scourge/Tempest and Boonshare ones such as Firebrand/Renegade/Chrono which could also open up the option for Necro/Ranger to get Boonshare E-Specs and Guardian/Rev to get Healing E-Specs)

    @"Kodama.6453" said:And I think the bard theme is more appropriate for mesmer than for thief. They already used some musical themes for mesmer on the trident attacks for under water combat. Art in any form is more a niche for mesmer than for thief.

    Bard is traditionally part of the Rogue class.

    But even then, Mesmer and Thief have a lot of cross over in their themes.

    • Stealth
    • Trickery (Illusions or actual Tricks)
    • Dueling (Works thematically for both. If there was an E-Spec that made a single main hand weapon have a full 5 skills to emulate a "Fencer", it could go in either class)
    • Theivery (Both can steal boons)
    • Elusivity (Shadowsteps and Teleports are a significant thing in both classes, with also both classes having E-Specs focused on dodging a bunch)

    It's kind of like Mesmer is just Light armour Thief to be honest. As opposed to the more Mage-like depictions we see from NPC Mesmers like Kasmeer or Jennah.

  23. @Kodama.6453 said:

    @"Taril.8619" said:So Mesmer Bard?

    A support Mesmer E-Spec? Like Chronomancer you mean?That deals with Conditions such as Torment and Confusion? Like Mirage you mean?

    I honestly can't see what it'd bring to the class.

    A "bard" class doesn't necessarily have to be a support.It could also play out as a bruiser in this game.

    Imagine a fairly mobile musician, stunlocking enemies with music and singing, dancing over the battlefield on steady feet (stability).Could have either shouts (songs) or stances (dancing styles) as utility skills.

    Still don't see what it'd add to the class.

    Bruiser? Chrono is the best tank in the game right now. Beating out all current "Bruiser" E-Specs. So...

    Not to mention, given the fact that everyone hates Mesmers in PvP and thus they keep getting nerfed, an E-Spec that's focused on gaining Stability and stunlocking enemies would probably end up getting gutted after 0.2 femtoseconds of going live.

    Meanwhile, I could see Bard for Thief. Given that Thief lacks proper support, giving them Bard and Warhorn for some boonshare would be viable. Steal could end up changing to singing verses of poems at enemies, giving "Stolen Skills" that are Choruses which provide boons for the party.

    Would be interesting to see how all the Dual Wield skills would turn out too, S/W, D/W, P/W... Could have some neat interactions.

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