[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

2 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You were the only one that ever mentioned escorting a dolyak, no one else’s ever brought it up…. But that’s not you bringing it up… no not ata all… no mental gymnastics there nope… I only ever said slapping dolyaks fun fact that’s not escorting…

You have managed to write something correct in 20 messages, that doesn't help your case at all, champ

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

6 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Provide proof of a duo completing 10 man content without exploits, gotta back up your claims with proof. And again if they did it without exploits they put in a metric ton of effort again effort the thing that rewards are based upon..

Good luck reconciling with reality

want more?

Here's more

I also never said they were not possible to solo, I said there's plenty of duo's (and sloth difficulty is???)

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

Just now, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Again who needs to escort a doly? You don’t, and again time doesn’t equal effort, time is time nothing more nothing less. So trying to say spending time semi afk is effort doesn’t work. To get t6 participation takes less than 5 mins and approx 25 Sentries, sped up even further if you slap some yaks en route to said sentries all while semi afk then you only have to maintain the t6 level which takes even less effort all without having to fight a single player in a PvP game mode and doesn’t factor in any bonuses to participation such as outnumbered etc. 
 

 

🤣hahaha that went right over your head didn't it? Escorting a dolly wasn't brought up by me and it is about the only thing you can do that boosts participation and doesn't involve killing or capping anything, but you seem to be unaware about both the time extension granted by it and the requirements to get credit for it. 

Your suggestion you would be able to get 25 sentries in 5 minutes is another pearl hahaha

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

9 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Duos not solo… hmm and were those with or without exploits? I wonder… and again if those duos did so with out exploits that’s called effort(there’s that word again that you seem to not grasp) they put in to acquire the skill to do said clear, and I bet it’s only very certain bosses that can be done without exploits with only two people… 

Duos for 10 man content and solo for 5 man content, I don't see the problem there. That wasn't the reason why I even brought this up, but you seem to be oblivious to it: if raid content can be duo'd barring mechanics and enrage timers and so 8 people can theoretically be carried, how hard can it possibly be to carry just you who paid to get your leggy armor?

 

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

18 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

It doesn’t take long to ramp up participation to max takes less than 5 minutes and that’s not even trying hard, then you just periodically go to a new sentry or Dolyak and kill it continue to semi afk since it should run e repeat, you seem to think that’s a colossal amount of effort, makes it clear why you would buy raid completion 🤣

You wouldn't know how long it takes on average to max participation from lowest even if you'd try to help yourself with the wiki. I'll repeat the questions: how long do they (sentries and dollies) extend your participation to if your time remaining is below it and how long do you need to escort a dolly to get credit for it? Having trouble finding information you are clueless about? 😄

 

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

24 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Again Raids we’re always group content that requires other people and a group effort since it was designed to not be solo’able…. there’s that word again that you have a hard time grasping just like them straws…. 

Oh yes, it's not like there aren't plenty of videos and logs of duo kills in raid encounters! You couldn't make this stuff up!!!! Enrage timers are effectively the only thing that prevents people doing exactly that on every raid boss that does not require mechanically to have more people (think KC for a simple one)😮. 

All bosses in fractal CMs have been soloed as well, that includes Siaxx and Ai.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

5 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Lulz reaching so hard here who’s escorting dolyaks all you gotta do is kill them not hard to find them they are static paths from their campy towers and sentries are static and you see which ones you don’t own, not that difficult hell it’s so simple a bot could do it. And there’s a lot of player created tools I don’t use, not using a player created tool doesn’t detract from what I said especially since this is my second week back after not playing for two years lmao. Go ahead keep grasping at straws this is getting more amusing as it goes on.
 

hahaha so you do not know the game mode. Million dollar question: can you kill your own sentries and dollies? Btw neither of them give you 10 minutes of participation but carry on.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

Just now, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Oh no keeping track of two screens to click a button while watching Netflix! So hard… 

You can literally do the same when getting carried in pve. So hard....

Next

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

1 hour ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Doesnt matter pvp takes longer the fact you can afk it and just lose every game and force losing to speed up the amount of games you play has no bearings it’s literally zero effort besides hitting queue match… again time doesn’t equal Effort.

That assumes you are not prevented from doing so (false, as you do get locked out of queueing) and you will need to queue literally hundreds of times (losses and poor rating = terrible conversion) while paying attention at when the queue pops up (because otherwise, again, you will be locked from queueing). So you can't really afk even the queue lol.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

1 hour ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Doesnt matter pvp takes longer the fact you can afk it and just lose every game and force losing to speed up the amount of games you play has no bearings it’s literally zero effort besides hitting queue match… again time doesn’t equal Effort.

 

Raids have always been a group effort and relying on a group to accomplish the raids and relies on the effort of the group to complete the raids has how they’ve been designed group effort is still effort, also there’s the effort of actually completing the collections required.

 

Farming gold does take effort you put in more effort than slapping a dolyak/ sentry every so often or hitting queue match…

 

Keep reaching for those straws though, it is quite amusing. 

Ok so we are in agreement that WvW requires more effort than PvP and definitely a lot more effort than buying the PvE set.

The collections you keep talking about are all carriable. You can't gg a few items like most of the collection, but it's really not really a point in your favour. Do you think it's harder to move to 2 greens on Cairn or stand in the middle of the platform on Deimos than capping a camp in WvW? lol you are funny. You personally need no effort for the PvE set other than doing those 4 items for Envoy 2, opening chests and doing some OW. Group effort is not your effort. You can pay for other people's effort, while you can't do that in PvP or WvW, as we have seen.

Doing RIBA or other gold farming methods for 18 hours is not more effort than playing WvW for 18 hours and will earn you enough gold to pay for your carries, as I mentioned 30 posts above in this very thread. Of course this is a moot point since you can convert actual money into gems and gems into gold and gold into Mystic Coins or whatever currency you use to pay people to carry you.

If you want to keep ignoring reality be my guest. It's not me looking like a fool with no knowledge here. Besides why don't you show us your hard earned kps to show us you at least know what you're talking about because you have done it. All of you from the bottom of the barrel unsurprisingly have invalid ids, I wonder why.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

14 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You can afk your way to legendary PvP armor not having to leave the spawn or if you want to not get flamed in chat you just run in and feed enemies kills to speed up the process to get legendary pvp armor oooh so much skill…. Wvw slap dolyaks and sentries once every few minutes… such pvp skills right there… 

 

those game modes take next to no effort to acquire the legendaries all it takes is time, you don’t have to do any collections Etc and you don’t have to play the game modes and all is done solo.. 

 

again you are just proving my point.

Nah you are just proving mine and the fact you also have no clue about how certain things work in the game.

Fact 4: losing every match in pvp you will end up in silver and bronze (theoretically) rating. At those levels rewards are much lower as a baseline, plus rewards when you lose a MUCH lower than when you win as well. In short, you probably need hundreds of games per season if you play that way and since you will get reported every match, you will also be prevented from even joining the PvP queue  for some time. I'm not sure what happens to a person sanctioned multiple times, but you'd assume he/she would be prevented from playing the game mode for longer and longer stretches. 

Quote

Face it raids take  a lot more effort in comparison to the above wvw/pvp methods

Nope, raids can be bought and can be done with even less effort from YOU. The fact that others need to do the heavy lifting for you has no bearing in this.

Quote

Also even if you are paying for your runs with gold it took more effort to acquire the amount of gold to complete raid armor sets than the wvw/pvp methods…

You can afk farm while not playing and convert gems to gold I don't see the connection between your statement and reality. Like for any of your statements...

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

29 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You don’t have to play the game modes, wvw and pvp are player vs player game modes and you don’t have to fight a single player and achieve the legendary armor and put in next to zero effort solo, Raids has always been a group game mode and each individual relying on approximately 9 other players and they have to put in substantial effort. Remember time doesn’t equal effort time is time and waiting things out that’s not effort. Speedrunners put in a lot of effort to be able to clear content in a very efficient manner and get to that skill level of gameplay.

lolwut? You are making no sense whatsoever. 

Fact 1: High level pvp requires more skill than high level pve. There is no competition in esports that involves beating NPCs

Fact 2: The effort others are putting in has nothing to do with the effort YOU need to put in for legendary armor. And so PvE armor is not only achievable the fastest but it can also require with less effort than flipping camps if done smartly

Fact 3: While you may not have to kill any player in WvW, you still need to kill NPCs and cap a camp or a tower. In PvE you don't even need to kill any NPC yourself!!!!!! Nada, nothing, nichts.

29 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Again you are just proving my point, more and more especially with you saying how you do everything you can to avoid putting effort in…. 

Lol look at this guy going on a tangent and failing to understand a simple point repeatedly.  I'm saying PvE is the only game mode where you can buy your way to all of it and you don't need to know or do anything within said game mode. Basically convert your gems to gold/MCs or whatever and pay for the carry if you don't have any friend willing to help you. The only thing you need to do on your own are are HoT OW metas, but the raiding part can be done with no effort and a lot less time investment than both PvP and WvW

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

I invite everyone to stop comparing apples and oranges.

If you take on one side people who raid seriously, you cannot compare them to people flipping camps in WvW and going afk for 5 minutes running into walls, because those are not the equivalent of a serious PvE raider, those are the people getting full carries in PvE (i.e. alt accounts or people who do 5k dps as damage dealers or people who just gg and take the rewards).

The equivalent of a serious raider in PvE is a serious raider in WvW, someone who does gvg or raids in an organised group with full boons and proper role setup.

So once you compare apples with apples this is the situation you are left with:

PvP: 26 weeks variable, as it depends on season breaks; low weekly time investment; not time gated (tied to the PvP season not a weekly reset)

WvW: 22 weeks; very high time investment; weekly time gate

PvE: 6 weeks; low time investment; weekly time gate

All game modes if played seriously require effort and, while PvE may require a little more competence and knowledge from beginners, it's also the only game mode that is completely and truly carriable.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

10 hours ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Yeah and it took those players more effort to get to that skill level of raiding which trumps anything to acquire WvW legendaries since all you have to do is smack dolyaks, guards and sentries(hint that not a lot of effort) 

Also for Raid legendaries a single player is already relying on 9 other players to begin with to even achieve their armor sooo nothing changes there… you are grasping at non existent straws and you are proving my point even further…. 
 

 

As I said above if you invested 18 hours per week, you too should become a speedrunner.

It's very common to people to get carried in PvE, both in raids and fractals. I have done fractal CMs with 2 alt accounts (so in 3 and even 2 people) many times and raids are the same exact story. If you are ignorant (in the sense that you don't know about it or choose to ignore it) of this reality it's really your problem, not mine.

You could say WvW and also PvP are easier (although one would really think that with the same time investment raids would be extremely easy too), but they are not carriable unlike PvE. You actually need to play the game mode.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

49 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Lol

 

You guys think that everyone is like you and can play for hours at end. Doesn't work that way. Some of us have very limited play time so we make the best of it which means being continuously active.

Oh I totally agree with you, you know. And I have all wvw sets, so just we're all on the same page here.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

19 minutes ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Sorry but time doesn’t equal effort the only effort is building up participation to tier 6 which doesn’t take long and takes minimal effort then you semi afk to get the to maintain the tier 6 participation. 
 

gg’ing every fight would also make it take exponentially longer than semi afking so that doesn’t even help your case since you have to beat bosses to even unlock the legendaries aka more effort than anything for the WvW legendary armor…you’re just proving my point even more…

wut? Speedrunners will clear all wings with an average of around 15 minutes per wing (I'm being generous here). Let's say the average is 25 minutes per wing in 9 players (I'm being exceptionally generous). That's less than 3 hours/week compared to 17+.

There are only a couple of encounters where you actually need to be alive for the collection: Cairn, MO and Deimos. Cairn and MO have been done in under 1m by many guilds and Deimos is in the low 2m. Cairn is likely the harder to do but in just over 1 minute you probably just need to do 2 greens. On Deimos you can probably just sit in the middle where the bubble for Mind Crush spawns as long as you have an oil kiter and Saul is cc'd/killed fast enough.

So no there is no effort really, everything can be carried and 99% of it is a simple matter of moving your character and gg'ing.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

5 hours ago, Zok.4956 said:

What exactely is your point in writing this as a response to my text/post? 

The point is that if you want to go down that path about WvW requiring only to flip a camp every 10 minutes, then you need to consider and accept that you can BUY or get fully CARRIED to your PvE armor for NO effort whatsoever. No effort and roughly 1/20th of the time investment.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

10 hours ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

You’re making a lot of assumptions there but you should read what I actually wrote.

Just because you choose to fight others doesn’t mean you are required to do so and that the ability to acquire legendaries by essentially afk’ing doesn’t exist, and that it takes next to zero effort involved and that doesn’t even include all of the collections outside of raid content needed to acquire PvE legendaries.

Raids require you to gear up your character with proper gear, learn all the boss mechanics, learn your classes rotation, practice you classes rotation, communicate with other players, coordinate with other players, and actually complete content, complete collections etc. versus log into WvW and smack some Dolyaks and Sentries in what ever gear you’re  wearing solo. 

Recap: 

 

You don’t have to fight other players at all you can literally avoid them all and only hit the easiest of PvE mobs to acquire WvW legendaries in masterwork/rare gear with next to zero effort.

Again time doesn’t equal effort.

This is wrong. You can just gg for every single LI you need. <- This is why the PvE set is the only set that has a collection that requires you to be alive to obtain some of the items (and they still can be cheesed, not to mention you now also have emboldened lol). 

Time investment definitely equals effort. In that time you can make tons of gold and buy your PvE set doing even less effort OR become a speedrunner in PvE raids. You cannot do that in PvP or WvW.

Also killing random mobs will not give you nearly enough participation. If you want to semi-afk you will need to flip a camp roughly every 10 minutes.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

3 hours ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

It’s called amount of effort, WvW legendary takes minimal effort vs Raiding

Raiding can be fully carried (meaning you don't even have to play). And if you do play, the weekly time investment in PvE is probably around 1/5 (but will be much less than that for good groups) of the investment required in WvW.  Once you compound that with the fact you PvE requires sligthly more than 1/4 of the weeks required for WvW, then you quickly realise that the time investment for PvE of around 1/20 of the time investment for WvW

[Please send more devs to all servers in a match at random times]

2 hours ago, Mungo Zen.9364 said:

Isn’t there metrics gathered that can provide that information?  I’d assume that all manner of player saturation and activity could be accrued without the devs being in game. 
 

Moreso what I think you want OP is the devs to actually provide answers to the horrible imbalance that some servers go through on a daily or weekly basis, sometimes as a direct result of the matchmaking system. 
 

Wouldn’t it be nice if Anet had developers who were working on the game!!

well metrics don't tell you how people feel and how the game feels like when one team is PPTing 400 the second is one 20 and the third on 0. Yeah they may see Team 1 150 players, Team 2 20 players and Team 3 20 players, but those are just numbers, it doesn't say anything about how those numbers translate into action.

[Please send more devs to all servers in a match at random times]

So they can relate to their bosses the state of balance in the game mode.

I've seen 1 dev recently (probably american considering the time of the day) and it would be helpful that more devs checked first hand the state of WvW on various teams and their opponents. Send an entire department to Riverside right now, they may outnumber their active players and they can then possibly explain to their bosses why no server should be treated like that.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

15 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

A bold statement it seems. What you just wrote tells me this. 

 

If a player coming from PvE just wants to semi-afk farm pips/tickets, he can do just PvE in WvW maps and just flip camps and maybe towers. And if he gets killed by a roamer/ganker he just ports and goes to the next camp.

Easy peasy (and boring). Do it until you did your time and got enough tickets. No PvP/WvW skill required. No teamplay, grouping or other interaction with other players required.

Of couse, there is a lot more (and a lot more fun) in WvW than semi-afk-pip-farming.  But a player that does not see / has seen those semi-afk-pip-ticket-farmers has probably never stepped into WvW. 😉

 

Another one without PvE kps touting PvE...my prediction above was eerily accurate.

Yes, in WvW you need 17.5 hours of semi active gameplay vs 2 hours of moving your character and gg'ing 25 times in PvE. I wonder which one is more active. I mean, even if you do play raids and don't get carried, with an equivalent amount of time investment as the one required in WvW you should achieve a level of proficiency with your PvE rotations to be able to speed clear any boss in any wing. 

Fallacies are fallacies.

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

26 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Edit: out of curiosity, why do you think that OW PvE'ers avoid raiding like the plague and come to WvW instead?

Any OW PvEr will quickly realise that the time investment and the months required to get 1 set of legendary armor in WvW are not worth it and will not stick around at 17.5 hours for 22 weeks. I know nobody with WvW legendary armor who isn't a WvW player, because, as other have explained, WvW leggy armor is not something people aim for as it's just unreasonable effort for people who don't enjoy or care for the game mode.

Any OW PvEr with some understanding will just gear a Mech or any FOTM LI spec and get into training runs for raids. That or play PvP which also requires less effort, even if somehow they end up with a silver rating. And while theoretically PvP is slightly longer than WvW, in practice the rewards are also much better (gold etc).

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

19 minutes ago, Soupeod.5714 said:

I spent at least 20k of claim tickets to get my Legandary back piece for many of my toons, only to have them make it available for all toons... years later.  Can I get a refund on 20k of tickets I spent already when my gear was nerfed and not needed. 

I mean what would you need 20k tickets for, once you have everything that can be bought with them?

[My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm]

24 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Oh you changed your comments in between. Well Raids still mean interaction with other people and not everybody has the opportunity to get carried. You assume ideal circumstances for all 3 modes but not a lot of people have those circumstances.

I would stop calling me delusional though, such ad hominems only tell me that you don't have proper arguments and it's not conducive to the right atmosphere in a discussion. 

False. Everyone has the opportunity to get carried. You can just redo the encounters until everyone who needs the carry gets it.

You seem delusional because apparently you live in a make believe world where gg'ing in raids is harder/more time consuming than flipping camps. It's not an insult or ad hominem, it's a statement of fact that applies to anyone believing that a PVE set is somehow more challenging to get than a WvW or PvP set, when it can be fully carried in 1/3 or 1/4 of the time and, unlike the other game modes, you could get by with next to zero effort. If you don't believe that then it does not even apply to you.

If you just mindlessly farmed gold for 17.5 hours a week (<-time required to get diamond for most low ranked players) that would be around 350g just from the farming and with that you can even BUY your carries, you don't even need your friends to help you. What was it? No human contact?