kash.9213

I'm for it either way because players are there for the game mode itself should still be rewarded. But there does need to be an upgrade or shake up of setting and structure at some point or matches are going to simmer down to the active squads queuing one map and leaving the rest empty. That would still be an active game mode, but for who. You can't pay me to spend most of my 20-30 min after work map hopping or sitting a queue to miss the best large brawls and whatever else. I'll be honest, taking camps and that kind of kitten isn't what I'm logging in for with limited time and no reward is making that fun with our current maps and structure.

That's true. There's also an element of people being familiar with map indicators and how things normally roll out and people like to get to the action quick. Sometimes even when there's only hidden tags on, I can scope out the radar and how people are leaving Keep, and I'll know we have numbers attacking a Keep or making a quick SMC attempt. I'm probably not joining squads or groups but I'm definitely getting some of that and I better hurry before it wraps up. I don't get a huge amount of time to play.

Like the people who only show up for events or whatever that pay out a lot more. Requiring a stomp will get some people to go for it. Hopefully fight kill trading and fishing near spawns and stuff won't be a huge factor.

Good points in bold. The carrot on a stick is a little different from PvE to WvW. When I'd raid in other games it was something like World First - then fastest run - then routine clears for more baseline groups - then speed up those routine clears to gear everyone up. I agree, gaining total dominance of an encounter should require the tightest ship and the degree of difficulty to recover should require conditioning more than just filling squad slots. A lot of squads do run a tight ship and work to improve team movement and all that, but what gets thrown at them in no way compares to say a Raid boss who can wreck everyone (unless they get a mirror of themselves thrown at them or savvy pugs can get like 30 min to an hour to dismantle) for weeks to months and still remain challenging over time during mishaps or laziness. I get it that squads should be encouraged to squad up like in raids and stuff, but the longer adds snowball and response has more time to filter in, it should press them more instead of letting them farm. The blob itself is fun to fight but not against the clock and not when defenses keep getting jankier.

Sure, that could get people out there more. That value threshold for the rewards would be tricky though and we'd have to hope we're actually rewarding people who like to pvp and not filling up people who are more into gimmicks to secure those rewards routinely.

I understand what you were saying. I'm saying I think rewards aren't going to move that needle as much as setting. That's unless they're forced to stomp so many enemy players before they can get their Gifts or whatever. I could be wrong, but we've been given more avenues towards gearing up and filling bags over time already.

People avoiding pvp is part of it, but while someone who hasn't played WvW might imagine old pre launch promos of actual siege warfare at a cinematic pace, the reality is that you need to be greasy fast and actually have the fire power, mitigation, with the specs and connection to not just be bag fodder. My Steam Deck can hang most of the time, but I do run into stretches where I should probably just log off (doesn't help that I'm doing other stuff while I'm playing, but even when I tune in to cover people, I'm not that good of a player to compensate every time). I imagine a lot of casual players or people mostly hanging out with their guilds can feel like WvW is a mad dash across a map so you don't get melted right away or get corpse jumped and then feel like it's all personal all of the sudden. I think WvW would need to have more theater and feel more like open world pvp instead of a large spvp match to get more people to wander around more often.

Being able to be rezzed after a full death hurts our own side also, you know who you are lying there watching us get wrecked instead of running back, which is another reason to axe it along with Rally, under certain conditions though (right now, lag and a lack of other stuff to do could make that largely problematic and discouraging). Aside from that, I'd also take out all of the Downed skills apart from Auto maybe and give everyone a very Slow Crawl and a link-up G skill maybe that lets them grab a nearby friendly to be dragged, but that friendly also has to choose to target and drag that Downed player. There was a fun Doctor or Combat Medic skill in Starwars Galaxies that allowed you to drag a fallen teammate, and that was fun but also a gamble, but also pretty simple focusing entirely on the teamwork dynamic.

If it's just Downed but can't be rezzed after full death that would be fun. It would be great if WvW mechanics had some additives that encouraged a pace that would naturally form lines, formations, and team movement. But the lack of activity outside blobs and roaming might still make that a slog for people who are dying.

I think Anet has to be careful about how they approach the boon ball issue, regardless of what we all claim about it. A lot of the issue is the player base and how it's going to simmer down into a gimmick regardless. The boon ball is as dangerous as the WvW points and structure taking systems allow. They're a lot of fun to fight any other time. They're boring and frustrating to fight when they can flex inside a keep or tower circle and time is running out. Mostly agree though and agree with the other points. Even if target painters are insta cast and easier to use, you'd still have to use them instead of using that time to go through your normal sequence, while the other player can go through theirs. I'd rather have stealth opacity decreased (and allow target select) after a second or two within some radius of proximity to enemies regardless of the stealth duration stack but the stealth user still holds onto stealth modifiers for the duration. That would still allow stealth approach or map travel masking but lessen the chance of stealthing away from combat and allow interrupts, pulls, and all that but still allow the chance at Stealth Attacks throughout. I could be forgetting details where that wouldn't work out the way I'm thinking.

I won't say those are bad ideas. They're actually good ideas, if we had a different player base. Most weeks no one cares about losing stuff or losing waypoints. Lose a waypoint, hang out on a different map or camp out at SMC gate lane. That sounds great if the formula for deciding that takes into account of a range of players. I might hang out in an area for a while scoping out body language or calling stuff out. I'm performing actions, but I hope I'd be performing exactly enough to not get bumped from the map

Page locked up. Double post.

Maybe server to server experience varies, but I see zergs being able to more easily clean up since they don't have to slow down to deal with downed and even those on the peripheral who normally snowball a dismantling of a squad comps are second guessing those attempts. It's also a bit baffling that the forum that regularly frames thieves and thief adjacent anything as game breaking be so eager to make things easier for them.

I'm not sure, but I have a feeling that they weren't entirely serious making that suggestion. I envy your forum experience though if that's true.

Apologies if that came off as a harsh comment, but you assumed everyone was cool with that and assumed it effected zerg play in a certain way and I was kind of matching your comments tone. I don't mind a no downstate week once in a while, but monthly is a lot. I'm with you when we're ready to change Downstate skills some and scrapping or replacing Rally though.

Down state is fun aside from Rally. The no Down state weeks end up being lame, a lot of people end up avoiding the maps, and it helps zergs more than anyone else.

1. And what will the fix be when you find out that most guilds or squads don't care much about losing that stuff? You really think those squads are going to split up into smaller groups and spread out, or make even a group or two of their usual crowd hang back in their home territory incase the other servers show up? 2. Again, explain what you're talking about because it doesn't make sense yet. What I'm hearing is, unless I join a large zerg, I'm in front of the line to get bumped off the map. I'm really not trying to trash someone's idea, but you came out hard against a lot of players daily experience and I'm mostly seeing benefits to large zergs.

And when you still can't close out a kill what will you request? It's the same blob play as any other time, but if you're not in the core of that squad or one of their besties, then you're going to take the waypoint more.

So a possible but not likely takedown of an enemy by a smaller group is going to change zerg play? And that's going to happen while also making it easier than ever for zergs to take a structure? Can you unpack that a little more? Downstate isn't your problem. Players are your problem, and they will continue to be your problem without Downstate. No reason to axe a fun mechanic that adds an interesting dynamic to combat when it can just be changed a little. No reason to dumb down game play because some players can't hang with it. You need to explain your second point because I don't see any good angle for that. The way I'm interpreting it, if I'm not in a squad or large group (even though I'm still working with everyone and hanging out with the other usuals), I'd get shuffled to another instance of a map. See how popular that is if it ever happens and watch combat with who are left on the map be lamer than it's ever been.

The disengage is not at no cost. Learn to resource budget and stagger between different resource pools. Disengaging to get entirely out of combat routinely is definitely something that needs to be changed, but that only effects a few builds. You talk about the ability to stealth and break target. I agree, losing a target entirely shouldn't be a feature. I've given a few different suggestions before but the one that I've seen in other games is proximity opacity to keep Stealth modifiers and some obfuscation while not being totally untraceable, so that the stealth focus shifts to map travel obfuscation and setting up a dynamic approach for a killer opener. People ignore those kinds of suggestions to screech more though so whatever. But then you would have to do something more like proximity opacity unless you want to redesign skills like Stealth Attacks and instead call them Positional Attacks, so that they can be used even when opacity lets up and they become more visible. Or, if Anet kitten the bed and did something ignorant like put a 20 second reveal.

If you need handicaps just ask for them without the convoluted nerf request.

Scorpion Wire isn't the fastest and it can be janky but that Pull can also be an interrupt close up or at range. It's also a nice distance closer if they put up a Reflect. I have a few Immobilize options already. I also can't pull people underwater with Bolas.

You must be baller out there if every thief is running from you. My guess is most of don't even bother stealthing against you. Why would they need to if that's your take on stealth? I'm not a fan of heavy stealth play either but it's not all that. How do you have fun playing at all if you live in a constant state of fear like that?

Kind of agree, but if stealth weren't a form of mitigation, people wouldn't try to drop combat and bounce with it.

I wouldn't even be mad if they did try something different as long as it was inspired, but it would still have to be some type of visual obfuscation anyway unless they were to change some things about thief mitigation also which just wouldn't make sense thematically. They could go wild and expand Shadowsteps to take over that aspect also with positioning and masking direction. People would still complain but I'd have a blast if the animations were fun.