bravan.3876

LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it!Ok so you think beign able to burst with condis+having the follow dot dmg from the insane stacks also last longer than the one second (what would be balanced for a burst condi spec) is balanced, my bad. And no i am not driven by any bias, i play all condi specs in the meta (Necro, Condirev etc.) i am just driven by simple logic. @"Arukayos.1798" said:Last I checked, hybrid builds do deal less damage than pure glass cannon - so I'm not sure what this thread is on about. Dire/Trailblazer will statistically deal less damage than Viper for example, in any situation, more so if Rune of Earth is taken into the equation. Valkyrie will always deal less damage than zerker. Does that mean it shouldn't blast your full glasscannon zerk one shot meme deadeye after you eat every AoE to the face? Of course it should, that's what makes your build fall into the "glass cannon" category. Seems like people here want to play high risk builds sans the high risk component. Which is kind of ironic, considering posts like these: Take two seconds to consider this post in a practical every-day scenario. A high risk build (let's say, power holo) meets an extremely low risk/low skill build (let's say condi rev). Who should be favored in this matchup if both players make a lot of mistakes? Obviously the low-risk build, that's the whole point of high risk - you're taking huge risks and get punished if things don't go your way. Which is why you'll see your average low-skilled power holos getting stomped on by your average low-skilled condi revs. However, when an insanely high-skilled power holo meets a condi rev, it's a whole different story and the holo can easily kite/kill the condi rev - in fact, it's a favored matchup for the holo. If anyone wants to take me up on this: I'll gladly fight their condi rev or any other "low-skill" class of their choice with a non-trailblazer, non-viper, non-condi, pure power based class which is supposedly underperforming (can do most power classes) - feel free to hit me up ingame. Don't QQ about low risk when you play high-risk and get obliterated for making mistakes really. That's the point of your choice, and your build. Lots of people in the community suffer from severe dunning krugger where they believe they're mechanical gods, play the most mechanically intensive builds in the game, and then cry when they're unable to pull it off despite the fact that it's the literal definition of "high risk". Just play low-risk/low-skill like everyone else then, you'll probably get better results. Or play glass cannon and then keep crying about your class being squishy when it's supposed to be squishy to everything in the game, including tanks ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Current Holo builds (like power explosive Holo) are far away from high risk builds, everything based on that assumption has a hard time to be right already. Holo is actually one of the prime examples for way too much dmg for the sustain/ resustain it has. Also you use risk and reward different to what i mean. What actually is true in GW2 is, that high risk builds have low reward even when played well. And even worse: Low skill requirement has too high reward even when played bad. For a high risk build it means when you make a mistake and you fail ofc you do not get the reward, that is part of the high risk and also you might die fast when doing mistakes in your defensive rotation, that is also part of the high risk but in GW2 it is like you hit everything perfect and also play with your defensive cds perfect and the low skill reqirement build/ low risk build simply can facetank 200 of its own player mistakes, still makes overall more dmg and still win the fight by doing 20 times more mistakes. That is the imbalance, i am not complaining that high risk builds have high risk lol. The whole meta is insanely noobfriendly also post patch, simply because the basic balance issues did not get solved at all. Sindrener and others will do a break for exactly those reasons. But i get that depending on the insane low average skill lvl we have in this game now ppl are happy with the facetank +still high spammable impact (dmg and cc) meta we have (actually since years) and arguing against that is like talking to a wall. And no squishy high dmg targets and tanky low dmg targets (which we do not have in Gw2 in meta, we only have tanky but still high dmg) should have the same chance of killing each other, what is not the case in GW2. The squishy target will eat way more dmg from the "bunker" (better say bruiser becasue we have no real bunker with low dmg in GW2) while the "bunker" can literally facetank most stuff. That is exactly the point. Sure a bunker can kill a squishy when he tries to facetank on point and plays bad but the bunker also should be able to die to the squishy the same way when doing mistakes and eating the burst. And the second point is not given atm. The game barely distinguish between very good, good, average and bad player. And a good player on a high risk high skill requirement build needs not only to play 2 times but 50 times better to win. I agree at 80% with this post because....there are no squishy high dmg targets in this game, sustain is not just heal burst, that's a convenient way to describe sustain in a MMO but the truth is that : blocks/evades/stealth/teleports/leaps offer the same opportunities to players as much as heal burst which is **to stay alive*** I know what you play so obviously you will disagree but the truth remains : you either are able to tank dmg or you get to avoid dmg altogether and in this case you get to try again and again till you succeed . Realistically : Side A should not be able to tank as much dmg and likewise Side B should not be able to avoid dmg as much as now, try to look at things from a different perspective : If I can't run away and can't eat as much dmg as now while you're free to avoid all my dmg while still able to run away ...where is the balance? There is a difference between active sustain and mistake friendly facetank sustain. Second one is still too high while ofc also some classes have too low cd spammable active sustain. There are also big differences between skill requirements, where higher skill requirement do not lead into decent higher reward when played well. Those are gamewide balance issues and not linked to a specific class. And i am multiclass player btw, i have no main, i am not biased towards classes i try to get a game with all classes being skillful to play. A game where bad players die fast and good player do not die fast, also not to low counterplay non reactive and with that also low skill requirement gimmick oneshot builds out of stealth. The active sustain of some professions is too high atm to try and take a more risky approach, doing that would lead to nothing but frustration , this is a base design issue and got nothing to do with balance. Some professions have been led down a specific path since launch and no matter the skill level of the player behind it...they all end up playing the same thing in the end because other options are simply not viable. You have/had ESL level players for the professions you may consider low risk and when it matters to win, they all end up playing those specs you may consider low risk, most times players want to play something else that what they end up being forced to play if they love the profession The professions you call "facetank sustain" don't have access to rollback stunbreaks , low CD evades/blocks, stealth and "get of jail" insta movement utilities so in the end you need to extend that "active sustain" to all professions and reduce/remove any sort of "facetank sustain" only then you'd see a version of balanced MU I would call fairYes ofc, i do the same. Why should i handicap myself? I hate to lose to worse player only because they play a lame build. I just beat them with their own cancer. And i always have a good laugh when ppl who are playing lame stuff themself then cry about other lame stuff they die to. I would like to play more skillbased builds on all classes but i will not do it as long as it means i have build disadvantage (i mean aside from normal counters you always will face). And when you play for real money ofc you play the strongest/ lamest you can find, because the other team will do the same. In the end it is Anets job to make the best builds the highest skill ceiling/ floor builds. You cannot rly blame the player when they play carry stuff when the strongest builds are also the easiest and are also strong when played not rly that well or even badly.

@Arukayos.1798 we just agree to disagree then. If you think meta is skillful and balanced atm, when even most EU top player saying in their streams, that they do not have fun with current meta because of what i describted, than we both just live in different realities. If you enjoy the meta and think sustain-dmg relation is balanced i don't know what to say anymore. Enjoy the game with the other casuals left then. LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it!Ok so you think beign able to burst with condis+having the follow dot dmg from the insane stacks also last longer than the one second (what would be balanced for a burst condi spec) is balanced, my bad. And no i am not driven by any bias, i play all condi specs in the meta (Necro, Condirev etc.) i am just driven by simple logic. @Arukayos.1798 said:Last I checked, hybrid builds do deal less damage than pure glass cannon - so I'm not sure what this thread is on about. Dire/Trailblazer will statistically deal less damage than Viper for example, in any situation, more so if Rune of Earth is taken into the equation. Valkyrie will always deal less damage than zerker. Does that mean it shouldn't blast your full glasscannon zerk one shot meme deadeye after you eat every AoE to the face? Of course it should, that's what makes your build fall into the "glass cannon" category. Seems like people here want to play high risk builds sans the high risk component. Which is kind of ironic, considering posts like these: Take two seconds to consider this post in a practical every-day scenario. A high risk build (let's say, power holo) meets an extremely low risk/low skill build (let's say condi rev). Who should be favored in this matchup if both players make a lot of mistakes? Obviously the low-risk build, that's the whole point of high risk - you're taking huge risks and get punished if things don't go your way. Which is why you'll see your average low-skilled power holos getting stomped on by your average low-skilled condi revs. However, when an insanely high-skilled power holo meets a condi rev, it's a whole different story and the holo can easily kite/kill the condi rev - in fact, it's a favored matchup for the holo. If anyone wants to take me up on this: I'll gladly fight their condi rev or any other "low-skill" class of their choice with a non-trailblazer, non-viper, non-condi, pure power based class which is supposedly underperforming (can do most power classes) - feel free to hit me up ingame. Don't QQ about low risk when you play high-risk and get obliterated for making mistakes really. That's the point of your choice, and your build. Lots of people in the community suffer from severe dunning krugger where they believe they're mechanical gods, play the most mechanically intensive builds in the game, and then cry when they're unable to pull it off despite the fact that it's the literal definition of "high risk". Just play low-risk/low-skill like everyone else then, you'll probably get better results. Or play glass cannon and then keep crying about your class being squishy when it's supposed to be squishy to everything in the game, including tanks ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Current Holo builds (like power explosive Holo) are far away from high risk builds, everything based on that assumption has a hard time to be right already. Holo is actually one of the prime examples for way too much dmg for the sustain/ resustain it has. Also you use risk and reward different to what i mean. What actually is true in GW2 is, that high risk builds have low reward even when played well. And even worse: Low skill requirement has too high reward even when played bad. For a high risk build it means when you make a mistake and you fail ofc you do not get the reward, that is part of the high risk and also you might die fast when doing mistakes in your defensive rotation, that is also part of the high risk but in GW2 it is like you hit everything perfect and also play with your defensive cds perfect and the low skill reqirement build/ low risk build simply can facetank 200 of its own player mistakes, still makes overall more dmg and still win the fight by doing 20 times more mistakes. That is the imbalance, i am not complaining that high risk builds have high risk lol. The whole meta is insanely noobfriendly also post patch, simply because the basic balance issues did not get solved at all. Sindrener and others will do a break for exactly those reasons. But i get that depending on the insane low average skill lvl we have in this game now ppl are happy with the facetank +still high spammable impact (dmg and cc) meta we have (actually since years) and arguing against that is like talking to a wall. And no squishy high dmg targets and tanky low dmg targets (which we do not have in Gw2 in meta, we only have tanky but still high dmg) should have the same chance of killing each other, what is not the case in GW2. The squishy target will eat way more dmg from the "bunker" (better say bruiser becasue we have no real bunker with low dmg in GW2) while the "bunker" can literally facetank most stuff. That is exactly the point. Sure a bunker can kill a squishy when he tries to facetank on point and plays bad but the bunker also should be able to die to the squishy the same way when doing mistakes and eating the burst. And the second point is not given atm. The game barely distinguish between very good, good, average and bad player. And a good player on a high risk high skill requirement build needs not only to play 2 times but 50 times better to win. I agree at 80% with this post because....there are no squishy high dmg targets in this game, sustain is not just heal burst, that's a convenient way to describe sustain in a MMO but the truth is that : blocks/evades/stealth/teleports/leaps offer the same opportunities to players as much as heal burst which is **to stay alive*** I know what you play so obviously you will disagree but the truth remains : you either are able to tank dmg or you get to avoid dmg altogether and in this case you get to try again and again till you succeed . Realistically : Side A should not be able to tank as much dmg and likewise Side B should not be able to avoid dmg as much as now, try to look at things from a different perspective : If I can't run away and can't eat as much dmg as now while you're free to avoid all my dmg while still able to run away ...where is the balance? There is a difference between active sustain and mistake friendly facetank sustain. Second one is still too high while ofc also some classes have too low cd spammable active sustain. There are also big differences between skill requirements, where higher skill requirement do not lead into decent higher reward when played well. Those are gamewide balance issues and not linked to a specific class. And i am multiclass player btw, i have no main, i am not biased towards classes i try to get a game with all classes being skillful to play. A game where bad players die fast and good player do not die fast, also not to low counterplay non reactive and with that also low skill requirement gimmick oneshot builds out of stealth. This ^ unfortunately gw2 right now is literally going in the opposite direction than u described Yes unfortunately, even though the overall big patch philosophy gave hope back then, but only until they released details rofl... But as you can see, ppl you never saw anywhere in PvP come to forum and claim that there are no big problems. Just a l2p issue overall. That i can facetank 2 ppl for ages with my Condirev and with my Necro, while i can pull out tons of condis with literally spamming one single skill (Rev) must be my l2p issue, oh wait no, it must be that i just face bad player (literally true because that is what is left in the game currently, 95% of the playerbase at least), most of the few good player left in the game will do a break because of the boring bunker meta where side noders can't kill each other etc. ATs/ plat 3/ legend even there you are not safe to meet bad player, at least that is true.

I've heard you explain it. Your explanation is stupid nonsense. Constructive pretty much xD All those good arguemnts and explanations from you. Impressive! You unfounded opinion is noticed but irrelevant. At least easy exit for me here. You explanation amounts to "They do condi damage that's PASSIVE and that's BAD" despite both of the attacks being some of the more fair in the game when stripped of infinite horizon. The scepter ambush is barely a dps increase over auto attacking and the staff had a 1s long cast time and a projectile you could counter play by circle strafing. Sry but you are either not able to read or to understand, i do not care at this point you are not constructive at all and i am not in the mood to waste more time with you."when stripped of IH" yes that is exactly the point rofl... holy cow... IH's main problem was that clones could be activated to do passive damage without the mirage needing to perform the ambush attack themselves. Not the damage. Not the animation. And not the skills. If IH was changed to "When you ambush attack your clones ambush with you" or "Increase Your Ambush's effectiveness based on the number of clones you have" would largely have fixed the trait. Again, you have a very specific vendetta against the staff and scepter ambushes for no reason and conditions just in general and I'm sick of seeing it bog down literally every thread. They are beyond fairly designed. The scepter ambush is a long channel that's only a bit stronger than auto attacking even with 3 clones and IH, and the majority of the animation lies outside of Mirage Cloak due to the length of the cast making it plenty interruptible. And Chaos Vortex had a long channel that left a lot of it able to be interrupted and with an overly fair projectile that you can literally circle strafe around. No, you did not understand anything i ever said since the last 2 years and i do not try it again. Stay with your opinion, as said it is irrelevant for me.

LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it!Ok so you think beign able to burst with condis+having the follow dot dmg from the insane stacks also last longer than the one second (what would be balanced for a burst condi spec) is balanced, my bad. And no i am not driven by any bias, i play all condi specs in the meta (Necro, Condirev etc.) i am just driven by simple logic. @"Arukayos.1798" said:Last I checked, hybrid builds do deal less damage than pure glass cannon - so I'm not sure what this thread is on about. Dire/Trailblazer will statistically deal less damage than Viper for example, in any situation, more so if Rune of Earth is taken into the equation. Valkyrie will always deal less damage than zerker. Does that mean it shouldn't blast your full glasscannon zerk one shot meme deadeye after you eat every AoE to the face? Of course it should, that's what makes your build fall into the "glass cannon" category. Seems like people here want to play high risk builds sans the high risk component. Which is kind of ironic, considering posts like these: Take two seconds to consider this post in a practical every-day scenario. A high risk build (let's say, power holo) meets an extremely low risk/low skill build (let's say condi rev). Who should be favored in this matchup if both players make a lot of mistakes? Obviously the low-risk build, that's the whole point of high risk - you're taking huge risks and get punished if things don't go your way. Which is why you'll see your average low-skilled power holos getting stomped on by your average low-skilled condi revs. However, when an insanely high-skilled power holo meets a condi rev, it's a whole different story and the holo can easily kite/kill the condi rev - in fact, it's a favored matchup for the holo. If anyone wants to take me up on this: I'll gladly fight their condi rev or any other "low-skill" class of their choice with a non-trailblazer, non-viper, non-condi, pure power based class which is supposedly underperforming (can do most power classes) - feel free to hit me up ingame. Don't QQ about low risk when you play high-risk and get obliterated for making mistakes really. That's the point of your choice, and your build. Lots of people in the community suffer from severe dunning krugger where they believe they're mechanical gods, play the most mechanically intensive builds in the game, and then cry when they're unable to pull it off despite the fact that it's the literal definition of "high risk". Just play low-risk/low-skill like everyone else then, you'll probably get better results. Or play glass cannon and then keep crying about your class being squishy when it's supposed to be squishy to everything in the game, including tanks ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Current Holo builds (like power explosive Holo) are far away from high risk builds, everything based on that assumption has a hard time to be right already. Holo is actually one of the prime examples for way too much dmg for the sustain/ resustain it has. Also you use risk and reward different to what i mean. What actually is true in GW2 is, that high risk builds have low reward even when played well. And even worse: Low skill requirement has too high reward even when played bad. For a high risk build it means when you make a mistake and you fail ofc you do not get the reward, that is part of the high risk and also you might die fast when doing mistakes in your defensive rotation, that is also part of the high risk but in GW2 it is like you hit everything perfect and also play with your defensive cds perfect and the low skill reqirement build/ low risk build simply can facetank 200 of its own player mistakes, still makes overall more dmg and still win the fight by doing 20 times more mistakes. That is the imbalance, i am not complaining that high risk builds have high risk lol. The whole meta is insanely noobfriendly also post patch, simply because the basic balance issues did not get solved at all. Sindrener and others will do a break for exactly those reasons. But i get that depending on the insane low average skill lvl we have in this game now ppl are happy with the facetank +still high spammable impact (dmg and cc) meta we have (actually since years) and arguing against that is like talking to a wall. And no squishy high dmg targets and tanky low dmg targets (which we do not have in Gw2 in meta, we only have tanky but still high dmg) should have the same chance of killing each other, what is not the case in GW2. The squishy target will eat way more dmg from the "bunker" (better say bruiser becasue we have no real bunker with low dmg in GW2) while the "bunker" can literally facetank most stuff. That is exactly the point. Sure a bunker can kill a squishy when he tries to facetank on point and plays bad but the bunker also should be able to die to the squishy the same way when doing mistakes and eating the burst. And the second point is not given atm. The game barely distinguish between very good, good, average and bad player. And a good player on a high risk high skill requirement build needs not only to play 2 times but 50 times better to win. I agree at 80% with this post because....there are no squishy high dmg targets in this game, sustain is not just heal burst, that's a convenient way to describe sustain in a MMO but the truth is that : blocks/evades/stealth/teleports/leaps offer the same opportunities to players as much as heal burst which is **to stay alive*** I know what you play so obviously you will disagree but the truth remains : you either are able to tank dmg or you get to avoid dmg altogether and in this case you get to try again and again till you succeed . Realistically : Side A should not be able to tank as much dmg and likewise Side B should not be able to avoid dmg as much as now, try to look at things from a different perspective : If I can't run away and can't eat as much dmg as now while you're free to avoid all my dmg while still able to run away ...where is the balance?There is a difference between active sustain and mistake friendly facetank sustain. Second one is still too high while ofc also some classes have too low cd spammable active sustain. There are also big differences between skill requirements, where higher skill requirement do not lead into decent higher reward when played well. Those are gamewide balance issues and not linked to a specific class. And i am multiclass player btw, i have no main, i am not biased towards classes i try to get a game with all classes being skillful to play. A game where bad players die fast and good player do not die fast, also not to low counterplay non reactive and with that also low skill requirement gimmick oneshot builds out of stealth.

I've heard you explain it. Your explanation is stupid nonsense. Constructive pretty much xD All those good arguemnts and explanations from you. Impressive! You unfounded opinion is noticed but irrelevant. At least easy exit for me here. You explanation amounts to "They do condi damage that's PASSIVE and that's BAD" despite both of the attacks being some of the more fair in the game when stripped of infinite horizon. The scepter ambush is barely a dps increase over auto attacking and the staff had a 1s long cast time and a projectile you could counter play by circle strafing. Sry but you are either not able to read or to understand, i do not care at this point you are not constructive at all and i am not in the mood to waste more time with you."when stripped of IH" yes that is exactly the point rofl... holy cow...

I've heard you explain it. Your explanation is stupid nonsense. Constructive pretty much xD All those good arguemnts and explanations from you. Impressive! Your unfounded opinion is noticed but irrelevant. At least easy exit for me here.

Core meta in conquest was Domination Duelling Illusion (if it was called like that back then, i do not remember actually) power shatter, for sure no points spend in Inspiration or Chaos and no condi, played with Moa, Illusion of Life, Portal and blink. Means not 3, not even 2 but only 1 duel utility. Instead elite and 2 utilities tied to teamsupport on a roaming class pain training together with the Thief, what also hold it viable even though it always was countered by Thief, but the pain train could peel for each other. Neither stealthspam abuse nor MoP spam was used back then. Most healthy Mesmer conquest meta ever, maybe aside from current interrupt Powermirage without broken traits like old CI or old CS giving stun/ immob instant , max range on MoD.Don't think there was only the monobuild you see in tournament who needed a hudge team assist, I was a full WvW players during this time and there was plethora of builds who made mesmer way behind other class when talking about duelling, from phantasms to blackwater passing by some other variants. IP builds were just the top of the iceberg.Btw outsourcing the ambush window activation from dodge button to a Mirage specific f5 button was on of my suggestions.Nice to see we agree on something. I am not talking about WvW. WvW always was an unbalanced mess and ofc cancer like PU stealthspam or Inspiration Mantra spam, Phantamsspam and go afk lets Ai win for you duelling builds were used there. Op stats, op sigills, op everything, WvW literally doesn't count for any balance discussion. Only PvE balance in GvG arenas is worse. I am talking about conquest meta balance and i think the most healthy for Mesmer is an offensive roaming build with offensive or rotational teamsupport, if it is condi (suboptimal because of the wrong design of condis gamewide and the op normal clone autoattack condi dmg application) or power.Pushing Mesmer into a conquest duel side node role will never be balanced in my view. The tools it needs in addition to its basic mechanics (which are one of the strongest in the game, with the highest active outplay potential) to be a good duelist also surviving +1s well, will always make it op. It literally needs to trait into Chaos or Inspiration which are, in my view and for the already mentioned reasons, in current state still highly problematic. Mesmer needs to be balanced in a way that the most viable/useful conquest meta is high skill ceiling, otherwise Mesmer is broken. And the best way in my opinion is to balance Mesmer in a way that a roaming/ offensive teamsupport build is the most useful in conquest and for that meta, even though Mesmer has easier builds available. Not the monkey side node role. Rolf stop going again in a skill discussion please. it wasn't afk AI at all and before HoT WvW stats gap between PvP was not hudge at all. And more than that there weren't full traitline taken before june 2015 patch. There was big mixt of multiple traitline.Pushing mesmer not into duel side node will require more out of combat mobility (mean mes has the worst swiftness uptime for example.) or bring more teamfight tools (like SoIn or glamour.).And a class is around 7 traitlines not just 3... It tic me like always when I read your posts. And just as on other classes (Engi Alchemie for exmple) those 2 from Mesmer out of 7 are very problematic. Agree to me or not i don't care. It is my opinion, Chaos and Inspiration have too low skill floor/ ceiling and are either too passive (Chaos) or too spammy (Inspiration) designed. And because Mesmer has one of the strongest basic mechanics with one of the highest active outplay potential it is important that it doesn't have mistake friendly stuff in addition. A mesmer with low skill ceiling build and too low skill floor on average usefulness will always be broken. If you want an easy time there are 8 other classes you can pick. Which are also too easy to play atm btw, even compared with their own basic mechanics. At least they did not get their mechanics destroyed until now but wait for the next Anet move in terms of trade offs. It will be just another mess then. Whatever what i said still stands: I talk about conquest meta balance, WvW and Duelserver builds have nothing to do with it at all. As long as the average rdm pleb gets lost in clones they will complain. The lower the skill lvl in this game gets (and you can see at Mesmer balance how low the skill already is and how clueless devs are) the more complains about Mesmer will come up, no matter how weak or strong Mesmer actually is. @mortrialus.3062 no clue why you talk about scepter 3 when i talk about Mirage mechanic IH clone ambushes I'm not talking about scepter 3. It's scepter autos with 3 clones and scepter ambush with 3 clones. I missread that, my bad. I don't have dmg numbers from golem tests, all i can say is that pre last big patch clone ambushes, in particular on scepter and staff did too much, aside from the coutnerplay they have and should have, that is no argument. I am too tired now to explain again why condi ambushes are wrong designed and need a rework and why condis in GW2 are also wrong designed just from the basics (it is not a Mesmer specific problem). If you feel better when thinking i just have a biased vendetta vs something, even though i could explain and listed a lot of reasons why i think that, then go for it. I already explained several times what should be done to condi ambushes and maybe to power ambushes when giving Mirage 2 dodges back, i will not do it again. Agree or not, that is up to you. no ammount of CI will make me use chrono.CI should have gotten ICD and be left as it was. It was one of the only usable traits that gave might in sustained manner. Now that chaos is gutted, crusade was a success I guess, thx for that @bravan.3876 btw.mesmer has no boons whatsoever, no might, no swiftness, no protection, no regeneration, no retaliation, fury only in overnerfed dueling.meta mes has 0 boons, thats not even bad, its pathetic, its actually kitten pathetic that "meta" build cant get a single boon ( no 5-10% uptime on vigor doesnt count )In fact its so kitten that Sigil of Absorption gives me more boons then my entire build combined. Then they should prob overhaul mes, because no buffs is insanity. I think they might need to overhaul quickness somehow Also if CI had a ICD how long like 10 seconds? 20 seconds? last patch? 8s propably, now? no idea. 10-15.i would be content with bug fixes at this point EDIT or at least rework kitten traits into something usefull like mental anguish.they could make it give bonus % dmg to shatters per clone ( the more you have the bigger the bonus ) and make landed shatter give long lasting might, lik 1 might for 15s.now suddenly you have a trait that is no longer meme used to try to 1shot people and absolutely useless in anything else. now you have trait thats made for sustained damage and promotes proper use of class resources. Funny you think i have any impact on balance, i guess i do not wintrade, acc share and sell titles enough for that, or i have the wrogn friends.And deleting CI was necessary and has nothing to do with Mirage or any other Mesmer spec. It is broken by itself already. That has to do with providing a lock down that needs a stunbreak AND a condiremove to get countered, what is just broken on a class with oneshot potential, even when the class has no instant max range interrupt tools. With MoD it gets even more crazy. And it doesn't matter how much cd you have on interrupts. When literally ONE random interrupt on an autoattack is enough to win a fight then its a zero counterplay killer mechanic should not exist, not even with 300 secs cd, just like passive life safer should not exist, also not with 300 secs cd. Simple as it is and the logic in that one is so obvious that i cannot believe that you and apharma still do not understand it. CI was broken since game release, just lucky it was not use that much before BD in Chaos got nerfed (at least in PvP conquest not, only in WvW and on Duelservers what was cancer enough) so ppl needed to take the second lame stuff in Chaos that makes sense for a point holder (PU stealth simply doesn't make sense on a side node build). Also why you want might in a defensive traitline? We all complain about classes with too much sustain AND too much dmg in the same time, you just want the same for Mesmer? No, just delete every dmg multiplier and offensive boon on defensive traitlines already, they have way too less opportunity costs in dmg anyway. I would even vote for offensive stat penalty on defensive traitlines and defensive stat penalty on offensive traitlines (as we had in core GW2) and that for all classes ofc. And ICD on old CI would even make it less skillbased, less active and less tactical, because the trait might be on cd when you rly need to interrupt something, like a keyskill (oh wait, you don't need tactical on purpose interrupts on keyskills with broken old CI trait, my bad rofl, just spam and hope to get an autoattack interrupted). But i am not surprised, you complained about how passive and useless for on purpose tactical plays the reflect on dodge trait felt after last nerf, missing that it is exactly the added ICD causing this passivity and prevents timed offensive dodges for the reflect purpose only. ICDs on dodge traits do not make sense at all, i explained why very well already several times. And also here the logic is that obvious, that it is hard to understand that ppl still don't get it. I got a question why not instead of deleting it overhaul how CI works so its not a op interrupt skill then? or delete the skill and rep with something useful for the class but not broken op? I mean if its possible overhaul CI so its not useless but not broken, if its not possible delete and rep skills and overhaul so mes is decent? i mean its gotta be possible with some effort. It would be a crying shame to leave mes busted.Yes that was my balance suggestion for CI. I am not a fan of the new one, useless and also not skilled because rdm as hell. The randomness prevents it from being useful for the player and the opponent in a tactical and skillful way. My suggestion, what i build up together with other forum users back then, was replacing just the immob with another utility condition. Sadly Anet did the rdm nonsense instead.

First Chaos is not unplayable, it is still problematic, only because Mirage condi dmg got nerfed in a way that it finally cannot take a defensive traitline and still does high dmg anymore prevents the meta Condimirage from taking Chaos or Inspiration. That was one way of fixing some of the issues with old IH-Condimirage, it was the easier and the worst way but we know Anet. Not my fault. I made way better balance suggestion to deal with old IH-Condimirage problem and to deal with Chaos and Inspiration. Yes sure there can be hybrid traitlines but in GW2 the core defensive traitlines mostly give 100% sustain and that also in a low skill ceiling/ floor way +50% dmg. I talk about opportunity costs, that is exactly what you say with balacing traitlines around x% dmg vs x% sustain. Exactly this balance is not real in GW2 for most classes defensive core traitlines and yes i mentioned Alchemie on Engi as another example. L2read (everything) and l2understand before answering pls.

LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it! I didn't say low defense, i said double defense. Ofc on builds rly only have dot dmg and not condi burst + the usual balanced dot damage IN ADDITION you need a little bit (A LITTEL BIT) more defense than on power builds (but also not that much because with dot dmg you also can go defensive after applying your dots already and watch your target melt from distance or from a safe spot, during a power build needs to actively hit until the target is dead). Means yes ofc balanced condi builds (which we do not have in meta atm) could have a little bit more defensive than power builds, at least when the condis are designed the way that the condi build kills overall slower than a power build with same offensive stat investment AND when the condi build kills with the same amount of successful hits of skills than a power build (what BOTH is not the case in GW2 on most meta condi builds even aside from the condi-burst aspect).

LoL @ damage over time with no burst and low defense. Just say what you mean: I hate condi and I don't want to deal with it in my meta at all. We know how you feel. Just say it!Ok so you think beign able to burst with condis+having the follow dot dmg from the insane stacks also last longer than the one second (what would be balanced for a burst condi spec) is balanced, my bad. And no i am not driven by any bias, i play all condi specs in the meta (Necro, Condirev etc.) i am just driven by simple logic. @"Arukayos.1798" said:Last I checked, hybrid builds do deal less damage than pure glass cannon - so I'm not sure what this thread is on about. Dire/Trailblazer will statistically deal less damage than Viper for example, in any situation, more so if Rune of Earth is taken into the equation. Valkyrie will always deal less damage than zerker. Does that mean it shouldn't blast your full glasscannon zerk one shot meme deadeye after you eat every AoE to the face? Of course it should, that's what makes your build fall into the "glass cannon" category. Seems like people here want to play high risk builds sans the high risk component. Which is kind of ironic, considering posts like these: Take two seconds to consider this post in a practical every-day scenario. A high risk build (let's say, power holo) meets an extremely low risk/low skill build (let's say condi rev). Who should be favored in this matchup if both players make a lot of mistakes? Obviously the low-risk build, that's the whole point of high risk - you're taking huge risks and get punished if things don't go your way. Which is why you'll see your average low-skilled power holos getting stomped on by your average low-skilled condi revs. However, when an insanely high-skilled power holo meets a condi rev, it's a whole different story and the holo can easily kite/kill the condi rev - in fact, it's a favored matchup for the holo. If anyone wants to take me up on this: I'll gladly fight their condi rev or any other "low-skill" class of their choice with a non-trailblazer, non-viper, non-condi, pure power based class which is supposedly underperforming (can do most power classes) - feel free to hit me up ingame. Don't QQ about low risk when you play high-risk and get obliterated for making mistakes really. That's the point of your choice, and your build. Lots of people in the community suffer from severe dunning krugger where they believe they're mechanical gods, play the most mechanically intensive builds in the game, and then cry when they're unable to pull it off despite the fact that it's the literal definition of "high risk". Just play low-risk/low-skill like everyone else then, you'll probably get better results. Or play glass cannon and then keep crying about your class being squishy when it's supposed to be squishy to everything in the game, including tanks ¯_(ツ)_/¯ Current Holo builds (like power explosive Holo) are far away from high risk builds, everything based on that assumption has a hard time to be right already. Holo is actually one of the prime examples for way too much dmg for the sustain/ resustain it has. Also you use risk and reward different to what i mean. What actually is true in GW2 is, that high risk builds have low reward even when played well. And even worse: Low skill requirement has too high reward even when played bad. For a high risk build it means when you make a mistake and you fail ofc you do not get the reward, that is part of the high risk and also you might die fast when doing mistakes in your defensive rotation, that is also part of the high risk but in GW2 it is like you hit everything perfect and also play with your defensive cds perfect and the low skill reqirement build/ low risk build simply can facetank 200 of its own player mistakes, still makes overall more dmg and still win the fight by doing 20 times more mistakes. That is the imbalance, i am not complaining that high risk builds have high risk lol. The whole meta is insanely noobfriendly also post patch, simply because the basic balance issues did not get solved at all. Sindrener and others will do a break for exactly those reasons. But i get that depending on the insane low average skill lvl we have in this game now ppl are happy with the facetank +still high spammable impact (dmg and cc) meta we have (actually since years) and arguing against that is like talking to a wall. And no squishy high dmg targets and tanky low dmg targets (which we do not have in Gw2 in meta, we only have tanky but still high dmg) should have the same chance of killing each other, what is not the case in GW2. The squishy target will eat way more dmg from the "bunker" (better say bruiser becasue we have no real bunker with low dmg in GW2) while the "bunker" can literally facetank most stuff. That is exactly the point. Sure a bunker can kill a squishy when he tries to facetank on point and plays bad but the bunker also should be able to die to the squishy the same way when doing mistakes and eating the burst. And the second point is not given atm. The game barely distinguish between very good, good, average and bad player. And a good player on a high risk high skill requirement build needs not only to play 2 times but 50 times better to win.

Core meta in conquest was Domination Duelling Illusion (if it was called like that back then, i do not remember actually) power shatter, for sure no points spend in Inspiration or Chaos and no condi, played with Moa, Illusion of Life, Portal and blink. Means not 3, not even 2 but only 1 duel utility. Instead elite and 2 utilities tied to teamsupport on a roaming class pain training together with the Thief, what also hold it viable even though it always was countered by Thief, but the pain train could peel for each other. Neither stealthspam abuse nor MoP spam was used back then. Most healthy Mesmer conquest meta ever, maybe aside from current interrupt Powermirage without broken traits like old CI or old CS giving stun/ immob instant , max range on MoD.Don't think there was only the monobuild you see in tournament who needed a hudge team assist, I was a full WvW players during this time and there was plethora of builds who made mesmer way behind other class when talking about duelling, from phantasms to blackwater passing by some other variants. IP builds were just the top of the iceberg.Btw outsourcing the ambush window activation from dodge button to a Mirage specific f5 button was on of my suggestions.Nice to see we agree on something. I am not talking about WvW. WvW always was an unbalanced mess and ofc cancer like PU stealthspam or Inspiration Mantra spam, Phantamsspam and go afk lets Ai win for you duelling builds were used there. Op stats, op sigills, op everything, WvW literally doesn't count for any balance discussion. Only PvE balance in GvG arenas is worse. I am talking about conquest meta balance and i think the most healthy for Mesmer is an offensive roaming build with offensive or rotational teamsupport, if it is condi (suboptimal because of the wrong design of condis gamewide and the op normal clone autoattack condi dmg application) or power.Pushing Mesmer into a conquest duel side node role will never be balanced in my view. The tools it needs in addition to its basic mechanics (which are one of the strongest in the game, with the highest active outplay potential) to be a good duelist also surviving +1s well, will always make it op. It literally needs to trait into Chaos or Inspiration which are, in my view and for the already mentioned reasons, in current state still highly problematic. Mesmer needs to be balanced in a way that the most viable/useful conquest meta is high skill ceiling, otherwise Mesmer is broken. And the best way in my opinion is to balance Mesmer in a way that a roaming/ offensive teamsupport build is the most useful in conquest and for that meta, even though Mesmer has easier builds available. Not the monkey side node role. Rolf stop going again in a skill discussion please. it wasn't afk AI at all and before HoT WvW stats gap between PvP was not hudge at all. And more than that there weren't full traitline taken before june 2015 patch. There was big mixt of multiple traitline.Pushing mesmer not into duel side node will require more out of combat mobility (mean mes has the worst swiftness uptime for example.) or bring more teamfight tools (like SoIn or glamour.).And a class is around 7 traitlines not just 3... It tic me like always when I read your posts.And just as on other classes (Engi Alchemie for exmple) those 2 from Mesmer out of 7 are very problematic. Agree to me or not i don't care. It is my opinion, Chaos and Inspiration have too low skill floor/ ceiling and are either too passive (Chaos) or too spammy (Inspiration) designed. And because Mesmer has one of the strongest basic mechanics with one of the highest active outplay potential it is important that it doesn't have mistake friendly stuff in addition. A mesmer with low skill ceiling build and too low skill floor on average usefulness will always be broken. If you want an easy time there are 8 other classes you can pick. Which are also too easy to play atm btw, even compared with their own basic mechanics. At least they did not get their mechanics destroyed until now but wait for the next Anet move in terms of trade offs. It will be just another mess then. Whatever what i said still stands: I talk about conquest meta balance, WvW and Duelserver builds have nothing to do with it at all. As long as the average rdm pleb gets lost in clones they will complain. The lower the skill lvl in this game gets (and you can see at Mesmer balance how low the skill already is and how clueless devs are) the more complains about Mesmer will come up, no matter how weak or strong Mesmer actually is. @mortrialus.3062 no clue why you talk about scepter 3 when i talk about Mirage mechanic IH clone ambushes I'm not talking about scepter 3. It's scepter autos with 3 clones and scepter ambush with 3 clones. I missread that, my bad. I don't have dmg numbers from golem tests, all i can say is that pre last big patch clone ambushes, in particular on scepter and staff did too much, aside from the coutnerplay they have and should have, that is no argument. I am too tired now to explain again why condi ambushes are wrong designed and need a rework and why condis in GW2 are also wrong designed just from the basics (it is not a Mesmer specific problem). If you feel better when thinking i just have a biased vendetta vs something, even though i could explain and listed a lot of reasons why i think that, then go for it. I already explained several times what should be done to condi ambushes and maybe to power ambushes when giving Mirage 2 dodges back, i will not do it again. Agree or not, that is up to you. no ammount of CI will make me use chrono.CI should have gotten ICD and be left as it was. It was one of the only usable traits that gave might in sustained manner. Now that chaos is gutted, crusade was a success I guess, thx for that @bravan.3876 btw.mesmer has no boons whatsoever, no might, no swiftness, no protection, no regeneration, no retaliation, fury only in overnerfed dueling.meta mes has 0 boons, thats not even bad, its pathetic, its actually kitten pathetic that "meta" build cant get a single boon ( no 5-10% uptime on vigor doesnt count )In fact its so kitten that Sigil of Absorption gives me more boons then my entire build combined. Then they should prob overhaul mes, because no buffs is insanity. I think they might need to overhaul quickness somehow Also if CI had a ICD how long like 10 seconds? 20 seconds? last patch? 8s propably, now? no idea. 10-15.i would be content with bug fixes at this point EDIT or at least rework kitten traits into something usefull like mental anguish.they could make it give bonus % dmg to shatters per clone ( the more you have the bigger the bonus ) and make landed shatter give long lasting might, lik 1 might for 15s.now suddenly you have a trait that is no longer meme used to try to 1shot people and absolutely useless in anything else. now you have trait thats made for sustained damage and promotes proper use of class resources.Funny you think i have any impact on balance, i guess i do not wintrade, acc share and sell titles enough for that, or i have the wrogn friends.And deleting CI was necessary and has nothing to do with Mirage or any other Mesmer spec. It is broken by itself already. That has to do with providing a lock down that needs a stunbreak AND a condiremove to get countered, what is just broken on a class with oneshot potential, even when the class has no instant max range interrupt tools. With MoD it gets even more crazy. And it doesn't matter how much cd you have on interrupts. When literally ONE random interrupt on an autoattack is enough to win a fight then its a zero counterplay killer mechanic should not exist, not even with 300 secs cd, just like passive life safer should not exist, also not with 300 secs cd. Simple as it is and the logic in that one is so obvious that i cannot believe that you and apharma still do not understand it. CI was broken since game release, just lucky it was not use that much before BD in Chaos got nerfed (at least in PvP conquest not, only in WvW and on Duelservers what was cancer enough) so ppl needed to take the second lame stuff in Chaos that makes sense for a point holder (PU stealth simply doesn't make sense on a side node build). Also why you want might in a defensive traitline? We all complain about classes with too much sustain AND too much dmg in the same time, you just want the same for Mesmer? No, just delete every dmg multiplier and offensive boon on defensive traitlines already, they have way too less opportunity costs in dmg anyway. I would even vote for offensive stat penalty on defensive traitlines and defensive stat penalty on offensive traitlines (as we had in core GW2) and that for all classes ofc. And ICD on old CI would even make it less skillbased, less active and less tactical, because the trait might be on cd when you rly need to interrupt something, like a keyskill (oh wait, you don't need tactical on purpose interrupts on keyskills with broken old CI trait, my bad rofl, just spam and hope to get an autoattack interrupted). But i am not surprised, you complained about how passive and useless for on purpose tactical plays the reflect on dodge trait felt after last nerf, missing that it is exactly the added ICD causing this passivity and prevents timed offensive dodges for the reflect purpose only. ICDs on dodge traits do not make sense at all, i explained why very well already several times. And also here the logic is that obvious, that it is hard to understand that ppl still don't get it.

As long as the average rdm pleb gets lost in clones they will complain. The lower the skill lvl in this game gets (and you can see at Mesmer balance how low the skill already is and how clueless devs are) the more complains about Mesmer will come up, no matter how weak or strong Mesmer actually is. @mortrialus.3062 no clue why you talk about scepter 3 when i talk about Mirage mechanic IH clone ambushes

Clones shouldn't apply conditions but that's more to prohibit turret style gameplay than condition mesmer have a damage advantage over power. These are premega balance numbers but with the auto attacks on deadshot and berserker amulets mesmer dps looked like this; This numbers are outdated, pre-megabalance and all. But the principal is true in that generally speaking mesmer condition weapons are actually rather undertuned, especially axe considering it's a melee weapon and they rely on clones supplementing their damage to get even decent dps numbers. Even with the difference between Deadshot and Wanderer, the only weapon that got close to Greatsword's auto attack was staff and that's when it's within 400 range. When it comes to clone ambush dmg scepter and staff were/ are the most problematic. And the current nerfed state barely touched them directly. Like instead reworking scepter ambush to only hit 1-2 projectile each ambush and be more about applying an utility effect (like a daze on sword, but no dmg) they just nerfed a core trait into the ground (sharper images if i remember the name right from the bleed trait). Sword clone ambush does zero dmg, gs clones do half decent dmg (more should not be tho, it is balanced dmg with main purpose of stacking might and vuln on targets). And normal clone autoattacks do way to much condi dmg compared to power clones.

Core meta in conquest was Domination Duelling Illusion (if it was called like that back then, i do not remember actually) power shatter, for sure no points spend in Inspiration or Chaos and no condi, played with Moa, Illusion of Life, Portal and blink. Means not 3, not even 2 but only 1 duel utility. Instead elite and 2 utilities tied to teamsupport on a roaming class pain training together with the Thief, what also hold it viable even though it always was countered by Thief, but the pain train could peel for each other. Neither stealthspam abuse nor MoP spam was used back then. Most healthy Mesmer conquest meta ever, maybe aside from current interrupt Powermirage without broken traits like old CI or old CS giving stun/ immob instant , max range on MoD.Don't think there was only the monobuild you see in tournament who needed a hudge team assist, I was a full WvW players during this time and there was plethora of builds who made mesmer way behind other class when talking about duelling, from phantasms to blackwater passing by some other variants. IP builds were just the top of the iceberg.Btw outsourcing the ambush window activation from dodge button to a Mirage specific f5 button was on of my suggestions.Nice to see we agree on something.I am not talking about WvW. WvW always was an unbalanced mess and ofc cancer like PU stealthspam or Inspiration Mantra spam, Phantamsspam and go afk lets Ai win for you duelling builds were used there. Op stats, op sigills, op everything, WvW literally doesn't count for any balance discussion. Only PvE balance in GvG arenas is worse. I am talking about conquest meta balance and i think the most healthy for Mesmer is an offensive roaming build with offensive or rotational teamsupport, if it is condi (suboptimal because of the wrong design of condis gamewide and the op normal clone autoattack condi dmg application) or power.Pushing Mesmer into a conquest duel side node role will never be balanced in my view. The tools it needs in addition to its basic mechanics (which are one of the strongest in the game, with the highest active outplay potential) to be a good duelist also surviving +1s well, will always make it op. It literally needs to trait into Chaos or Inspiration which are, in my view and for the already mentioned reasons, in current state still highly problematic. Mesmer needs to be balanced in a way that the most viable/useful conquest meta is high skill ceiling, otherwise Mesmer is broken. And the best way in my opinion is to balance Mesmer in a way that a roaming/ offensive teamsupport build is the most useful in conquest and for that meta, even though Mesmer has easier builds available. Not the monkey side node role.

Core meta in conquest was Domination Duelling Illusion (if it was called like that back then, i do not remember actually) power shatter, for sure no points spend in Inspiration or Chaos and no condi, played with Moa, Illusion of Life, Portal and Blink. Means not 3, not even 2 but only 1 duel utility. Instead elite and 2 utilities tied to teamsupport, needed teamcoordination to be useful, on a roaming class pain training together with the Thief, what also hold it viable even though it always was countered by Thief, but the pain train could peel for each other. Neither stealthspam abuse nor MoP spam was used back then in Mesmer builds and the coorinated burst with the Thief was needed for a fast kill. Most healthy Mesmer conquest meta ever, maybe aside from current interrupt Powermirage without broken traits like old CI or old CS giving stun/ immob instant , max range on MoD. Btw outsourcing the ambush window activation from dodge button to a Mirage specific f5 button was on of my suggestions.

BAsically, without reading every detail, Im going to agree cause I said similar just now. LoL I made some more balance suggestions for Chrono and Mirage but yes more or less the same but ofc you used 300 sentences less :joy:

...And still way better than those 10 seconds stun chains that exists in that kitten called WoW. Warrior reaches 10 seconds stun chain easy if he wants to though^^

Yep it is that simple.high risk- high rewardlow risk - low rewardhigh skill requirement- high rewardlow skill requirement - low rewardhigh sustain (mostly active , because mistake friendly facetank sustain should be reduce to a minimum anyway, what is also not the case in GW2)- low dmgdot dmg -no burst and no double defensive ability (by needing that much less offensive stats for the same dmg than power) simple basic rules not existing in GW2 for most classes/ builds atm.

Make every classes as fine as mes will be a proper way, just as they claimed. That would be a good idea if that would not mean delete even more skill ceiling/ floor, mechanical complexity and tactical deepness from other classes as well. Imo the Mesmer nerfs and trade offs didn't make it too weak (aside from the already before unviable power builds ofc), they just contradicted and deleted mechanics, made them clunky and even dumbed them down. Same with Soulbeast btw, even tho here it is not that hard contradicting the mechanics but it also did not solve the balance issues Soulbeast/ Rangers in general have with the passive part of their pet mechanic. It did not add any skill requirement to Soulbeast, actually even deleted mechanical complexity from it.

All this buff Mesmer - nerf Mesmer comments miss the real issues with Mesmer balance tbh, and it somehow triggers me enough to jump in again. The question about Mesmer balance it not mainly about how weak or strong it is, i neither think Mesmer (all specs) need that many buffs. The stupidity and nonsensenes about Mesmer balance it the destruction/ contradiction of basic mechanics (Mesmers in general or elite mechanics in particular), making the elites clunky and deleted tons of skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity. If anything will work, then a build on Mirage or Chrono, will for sure not be the high skill ceiling, healthy for the game and fair builds, like power (aside from nonreactive oneshots ofc), for Chrono if anything will work than it will be the balance issue overloaded and easy to play and unfair stuff like Bunkerchrono, phantams spam Chrono or Condichrono, for Mirage it only will be Condimirage. Means exactly the builds the nerfs and trade offs were directed to, survived the most of this mess. It just makes no sense. I also personally think Mesmer is the most balanced when its meta is rotation/ roaming orientated, Mesmer should literally have no viable side node build. It cannot be balanced ever with Mesmers basic mechanics. Mesmer in core GW2 was pure roaming pain train with some team utility. It was the highest skill ceiling/ floor and most balanced state Mesmer was ever in. Means: Giving Mirage 2 dodges back and giving Chrono Distortion and IP back has to come with nerfs or reworks finally at the correct positions instead. For Chrono the trade off can be simple stat penalty because when it needs to give up sustain and dmg compared to core, to have lower cds on utility effects (like double elite or double boon remove on utility phantams) than it is a trade off makes sense, defines Chrono more as a support and utility spec and does not contradict class or elite mechanics. Also you could just exclude elites from CS reset. Mirage needs 2 dodges back and should get reworked condi ambushes instead. Power ambushes also might need to lose some power then, to not be op compared to post patch nerfed power lvl of other classes (like some little dmg reduction on gs ambush from the Mirage itself, little nerfs on vulnerability and might stacks, no clone generation on sword ambush from the Mirage itself, just as examples). It would also make balancing ambushes from Mesmer and clones easier if IH becomes a minor trait (makes sense also because without IH played, Mirage is just a core on steroids, in fact ambushes and IH brings the most skill ceiling to the spec and differs the gameplay style from core the most, as long as ambushes are correct designed, just like on power weapons). The dodge duration for Mirage is not the issue, that is nonsense, as mentioned already from others, even with 2 dodges Mirage got outdodged by most other classes already. Other classes just have the same or higher amount of addittional dodges and other dmg mitigation skills on weapon and utility skills, other classes even still have passive traits for invuln (Warrior for example) or dodges (Thief for example). The real problem was, that Condimirage had that much passive clone condi dmg (clone ambushes but also normal clone autoattacks) that they could spec into Chaos or Inspiration and still do high condi dmg while also having insane sustain from low skill ceiling traitlines with insane synergy between Mirage and the passive boonfest in Chaos or invulnspam/ambushspam in Inspiration. All these problems will be solved in the same way we have it now ,when just condi ambushes will be reworked and have utility/effects and not high condi dmg spam as main purpose. It also will give Condimirage the needed opportunity costs in dodgemanagement you do not have on pure condispam ambushes, not forcing Mirages into offensive dodges at all and for that also make the ability to dodge while being stunned insanely op then (this all is no issue on Powermirage simply because of the better designed power ambushes from Mesmer itself and from clones). Or you relink the ambush/ IH mechanic from dodges and put it into a Mirage specific f5 button, give it an ammo skill with the same cd of a 2 dodge Mirage, so that the Mirage actually can time the ambushes for the purposes of the ambush as active and tactical skill to outplay opponents and not just as a passive side effect from pure defensive dodging. Means f5 enables the ambush window, then the Mesmer needs to press autoattack during ambush window to ambush (so that the Mirage can still decide to ambush himself or not), while clones with IH do the ambush on f5 use automatically. That way ambushes/ IH are 100% active now (not linked to dodges anymore, not doomed to be a passive side effect when only dodging pure defensive) and not only 80% active like on power or 90% passive like on condi. It rly is that simple but Anet prefers to dumb down high skill ceiling builds/mechanics, make them clunky and even more unviable than before already, while not even fixing the real issues Mirage/ Chrono had on the old meta builds which alone caused the balance issues (even mostly because of low skill ceiling defensive core traitlines). Meanwhile ofc nonreactive and low counterplay Mantra of Pain spam, stealthspam PU oneshot should not exist either, MoP should become a more defensive skill, like a boon remove Mantra. With that there is also no need for the "face your target" requirement on any Mantra anymore. MoD is balanced as it is now and don't need this clunky restriction. Reworks for PU i made several times already i will not repeat. Also the stun on f3 should not come back, just as old CI and old Lost Time should not come back no matter what. Mesmer has an instant, max range interrupt tool with MoD (what needs to be that way to enable skillful on purpose interrupt gameplay) but that comes with the trade off that Mesmer is not allowed to have too strong interrupt traits and even weaker "proc on cc spam only" traits. Powerblock is a good example for a balanced and high skill ceiling cc trait for Mesmers having access to something like MoD. All this ofc needs to happen while current braindead bunker and low effort hard cc spam meta builds from other classes get further adjustments. But there are general basic issues in GW2 no class balance alone can solve: Core defensive traitlines still have too low opportunity costs in dmg on most classes, they are still too passive or too low skill ceiling/floor designed and cause the most balance issues, allowing mistake friendly facetank gameplay, it is not even the elites causing the main issues in this game. The whole trade off agenda is still an inconsistent nonsense mess, i don't want it to come to other elites and it should be reworked or reverted on the elites already got such nonsense trade off and should be replaced with normal nerfs instead. Normal nerfs at right places which do not contradict and delete mechanics and finally solve the real balance issues. Condis are still wrong designed by their basics. High risk-high skill requirement builds have still lower reward in GW2 than low risk-low skill requirement (that is not a Mesmer only issue, it is a gamewide issue, even tho Mesmer as a class with one of the strongest basic mechanics needs to have higher skill requirement to be balanced, that is why Inspiration and Chaos in current state will always be problematic). There are simple balance basics being wrong in this game, cannot be fixed by class adjustments and number nerfs alone anyway. And the first step is, that Devs do not listen to biased players trying to mess up balance/ meta into their favor and are unpunished for acc sharing, title selling, wintrading etc. and that Devs get some more class knowledge and starting to use brain and logic instead. Also find the courage to admit, that most of the trade off agenda (not only for Mesmer) was purely executed, inconsistent among elites and need fix.

The classes are unbalanced in themself, that is also why in all gamemodes more or less the same classes are an issue. That you can play around balance issues and broken or op mechanics better in conquest because of the outrotation ability doesn't change the fact, that the class has balance issues should be solved, no matter that conquest gives more ways for teams to lower the impact of broken stuff in the opposite team. It is the old problem this game has since game release, only increased over time. Most classes can be played too forgiving tanky and still have too much dmg or other stuff like low effort hard cc spam compared to high risk (low reward) builds and compared to the high tankyness and mistake-friendlyness they have. Condis are still wrong designed just from the basics and will never be skillful to play that way. If those basic balance problems would finally get solved, all gamemodes would be more skillbased instantly. A special 2v2/ 3v3 balance is not necessary, it is all the same mess in the end. Something that has high dmg/ offensive power should have remarkable lower sustain/ resustain (in particular sustain that enables mistake friendly facetank playstyle should be reduced in general). DoT dmg should be DoT dmg only, not burst with DoT finisher on builds that even need less offensive stats and go double tanky without losing offensive power. If something needs more skill to make it work, it should be more impactful/useful and rewarding than low skill ceiling/floor stuff. In GW2 it is quite the opposite. And as i always said, the defensive core traitlines are for most classes the biggest problems, not the elites. In particular PoF elites often added skill ceiling a lot and just needed some normal nerfs instead the deletion of active gameplay options/ mechanics and skill ceiling with this inconsistent trade off nonsense. The defensive core trailines are on most classes the ones with the biggest noobcarry potential and lowest skill ceiling and need way more opportunity costs in dmg. Instead we have a mess of class and elite biased and noobfriendly balance changes destroying mechanics with an insane lack of class understanding, changes which lower skill ceiling, tactical deepness and mechanical complexity because barely competent devs listen to ppl should be perma banned. Both together, but in particular the last point, the nepotism, made me lose hope for this game's pvp, even though Teapot and his helpers do a great job of keeping it alive for now. Kudos to them at this point. Mini seasons and 2v2/3v3 gamemodes are great additions, to give devs some kudos too, but the balance just ruins it all. Anyway im over the state of wasting time for wall of text posts will not change anything balancewise. This post is already longer and needed more of my time than it is worth it.

Fair points. It only really affects the top 100 on the leaderboard, so it doesn't make sense that people below has an issue with it. Case in point - who wintrades just to get to plat 1? Nobody. Funny how all it takes to counter wintrading in this game is for players to queue off-hours. @rng.1024 said: I don't even play ranked, who cares about my rating? Wintraders push actual good players back with match manipulation. How? Wintraders avoid good players like the plague, and good players play during prime time where they lose less rating and gain more. If you are remotely good you will almost never encouter a wintrader, meaning it will only hold you back from a ranked leaderboard spot with it's rewards - nothing else.Wait, let me try to understand your points: Wintrading only affects Top 100, means no one below Top 100 has the right to complain but it also doesn't affect the Top 100 because wintrader avoid good player. Means Top 100 should not cry about it either. Means wintrading literally do not affect anyone in the game. Why a single player even complains, there is no problem with wintrading at all. Rofl, yep logic is strong in this one :joy: Lets go even further and imply that those wintraders only make sure they get to the ranking they deserve anyway and for that should not be blamed for cheating. Lets even give honor for the massive effort they do, to win by anything else than skill xDDD How ppl can defend or downplay wintrading and cheating is beyond my understanding but why i am even surprised to read such retarded nonsense in a game where those type of wintrader, acc- and titleseller etc. player have influence on balance and mess it up into their own favor because they have some friendships with devs running, who then have barely any knowledge about balance themself. There is no hope for pvp under this circumstaces anyway.

It barely changed the initial burst. And aside from that, Condithief can just switch to another utility to compensate. I still make 20k dmg on a not moving, not casting target that do not remove condis with my opener alone. Way too much reward for how easy it is to land. Also that Thief stays in stealth after failing to hit is stupid. Delete the ICD on backstab and make Thieves get revealed the moment they use an attack out of stealth no matter if it gets blocked, blinded, evaded or whatever.

This is a joke tbh. Condithief problem not even solved, Ranger can just switch to some other still broken pets (Jacaranda rofl), Rev, Holo not touched, also Necros still too strong, Eles are... who cares. Mesmer elites still a meme. 3v3 will be fun with that balance. Let it happen on small 2v2 maps pls so i just can spam my condi aoe on the whole map during my already tanky butt gets carried by some facetank support classes. I gave up to write essays for this game already anyway. I guess you need to wintrade and acc share before you have impact on balance and can ruin it to your own favor, while Devs seems to have no clue what they are doing at all by themself.

You must be in silver and below to see op bots i guess gold is FULL of mirage bots... :scream: if bots can get into gold the skill lvl there also from players must be horrible low, even lower than i would have expected Or add an extra dodge to everyone else so they can get past clones and ranger birds ? At least Daredevil needs a 4. dodge, they rly need a lot of dodges to make their mechanics work well, oh wait... 4 dodges to make up for the downgrade on swipe!/sIn particular because unblockable is such an useless feature on a range instant teleport skill directly to the target doesn't need los. That i learned from @UNOwen.7132