AikijinX.6258

Yes I do not disagree or deny elementalist has had their fair share of problems. However, thief has had a problem with their class since it’s inception, because people don’t know how to deal with stealth, and definitely don’t know how to deal with thieves that know their mechanics and how to utilize them to an above average performance level. Historically I’m going out on a limb here and making an educated guess that we have had the most handicaps & punishments directed towards our profession in comparison to others.

There are thieves on these forums, myself included— who have played Thief since it’s inception. We understand all of what you said. The problem at hand however is Anet making Thief a lot more difficult and not so user/class friendly for newer players or players that don’t main thieves. Also, when we just so happen to “play smart” we get punished for this and nerfed due to playing too smart and over performing with our mechanics/class. So over the years and many ‘balances’ patches, we’ve been handicapped… I could even argue that we just might be the one class that has received the most handicaps and punishments due to over performing and playing too well.

That is pretty crazy how havok specialist rewards you for lacking endurance, but if you want to run Acro with Drd which is what you’d want to do for more survivability, it therefore punishes you unless you run swindler’s, which honestly..Why wouldn’t you? And pain response is still very much a not so great trait due to the 60sec CD. I just hope the endurance gain from shadowsteps are decent.

Yet another example of a good thing we had going for Thief. But we over performed while using it, so they handicapped us. Very unfortunate. Richochet is one of those traits that will always be missed, no matter what year. And when DrD in general overperformed, they cut our steal distance. It’s actually nauseating to think about throughout the years how these ‘balances’ oppressed us. Of course we adapted and still prevailed, but then they found another thing to ‘balance’ because of our adaptation. Regardless, for myself (and just speaking for myself) I know that I will always be okay in WvW or PvP and be able to confirm kills and 1vX, but that isn’t the same for new Thieves, or players that aren’t really Thief mains but always wanted to use this class because of the ‘fun’ of it. It’ll be a lot harder for people who aren’t well acquainted with this class, and that’s something I’m not okay with. I totally understand your strife brother, and you’ve got every right to feel as such. It’s oppressing and not really motivating to come back. I’ve taken a hiatus from the game myself. I haven’t logged on in well over a month maybe close to 2. It’s just unfortunate the direction we continue to go as well as the lack of representation or urgency from this dev team. New players and players that don’t main thieves shouldn’t have to struggle as much and jump through hoops to get the bare minimum of what another class can produce with 1 skill, while also being able to generate good defensive boons and have a decent health pool. I’ve got a whole book worth of things I can say and express about the changes, how many changes have been done throughout the years, etc. But I won’t do that. It’s just really unfortunate that new players can’t fall in love with this class because of how poorly balanced this class has been. Which leads to decreased amounts of Thief representation, which then leads to less acknowledgment on the Reddits, which then makes it seems as though Thief is perfectly fine, or that we are just doing okay and that we’ll deal with whatever is thrown at us. Low representation and callouts on Reddit just equals 0 eyes from Anet. (I’m always mentioning Reddit, because it’s already a known thing that this Thief forum, and in general each profession’s forum don’t really get much love from the devs, and it really doesn’t matter what we post here in regard to feedback, because almost none of it is taken into consideration)

Wasn’t it their intention to over inflate specter’s ability to heal or provide support to (1 person) since we weren’t able to provide a whole group of 5 the support from our shroud and specter abilities? Am I tripping? Wasn’t that stated by CMC? Because since we don’t have very good group support abilities, our single target ally abilities would have made up for it by being strong and inflated? Or something along those lines. I can’t remember verbatim but I thought that was along the lines of what was stated. Can anyone correct me or confirm?

Yeah man, the motivation for putting out more videos have drastically decreased. I do have footage and such. But in the current state of Thief and the direction we continue to go towards, it’s very disheartening and not really motivating me to highlight this class. This has been my only class I’ve used since day 1, and it just sucks to see my class dying like this before my eyes. It’s just not a good feeling.

These are some of the penalties or handicaps Thieves had to endure and adapt to over the many years worth of ‘balances’ due to playing too well OR over performing with the class due to our individual skill. I wanted to create a list and have a collaborative effort to identify all these handicaps that were given to us simply because we excelled with the class and knew how to use the class to its best extent. I also wanted to identify those skills/traits that Anet deemed to be over performing because other players didn’t know how to deal with them/us, which at the root of Thief and it’s actual problem, wasn’t the problem or atleast all of the problem. Thief: - Stealth attacks now have a 1s ICD if missed - Backstab co-efficient nerfed multiple times - Mug trait (Cannot crit anymore) - Initiative increases - Sw/X AA chain dmg nerfed - Stealth uptime cut in half - Marked debuff - Added +1s to reveal debuff in PvP - Traps got killed because of an over performing rune and changed to a worse system, (preparations) (Trust me there’s ALOT more for base Thief, but I’ll give you guys an opportunity to add to the list) Daredevil: - Exhaustion Debuff - Pulmonary Impact substantial dmg nerf - Staff initiative increases - initiative increases for staff in general - Vault dmg nerf - Unable to vault on flat ground & swap weapons mid air (can still do this while on an inclined hill tho) ( You guys can add more as you think of them) Deadeye: - Nerfed Silent Scope - Cursed Bullet stealth attack change - Deaths Judgement dmg nerf - initiative increases - Deadeyes old middle trait that offered (stun) on f1 removed and changed to (payback) (Add more as you think) Specter: - Consume Shadows nerf/rework - Shroud nerf - Endless night change from 3 allies to 1 - Scepter 2 weapon skill being garbage throughout beta and final release - Shroud 5 AoE circle got removed (I still think this to be FOR ME personally a buff, Just so people don’t know I am stunning them, but I am aware that the stun will go off for myself, Just need to be next to them and pressure) - 3 less initiative when using specter - Quickness removed from Sc/P (Add more as you see fit)

Thieves are able to do anything, while simultaneously being mediocre at everything.

This is very true. WvW thief pays for the sins of PvP thief. It’s not really the fault of actual PvP players. It’s just that Anet doesn’t take into account WvW and PvP are vastly different. And although it’s good that there’s someone they atleast listen to for high tier perspective and opinion, and opinion that I myself respect as well, sinderer’s word is not bond and it seems like his opinion is pretty much a majority of what they and mightyteapot listen to. (This isn’t to bash them AT ALL. I just think they need to have more perspective than just PvP Thief), which eventually poses a detriment and bleeds into WvW and PvE universal ‘balances’.

This is unfortunately a sad reality we play in now. I also know a ton of Thief mains that have even changed their mains to different classes. Unfortunately Thief, as high skill cap as it is, the level of difficulty and the amount of work you have to put in to confirm kills safely and effectively doesn’t promote for very fun time or gameplay for most of the Gw2 community. Due to the level of difficulty playing this class we just don’t have the audience and definitely don’t have enough of an audience that cares about what happens to us. From the outside looking in, since we have access to stealth, all the nerfs in the world that get thrown to this class is justifiable due to our innate stealth access ability. It’s very unfortunate, but not only are anet dev’s killing this class with these low blow ‘balances’.. due to the lack of audience, representation and just in general: care, this class’s murder gets multiplied because of this. EDIT: And I truly don’t want people to think this is just another thief main upset and complaining. Because as I and many others do, we adapt. But it’s just getting exhausting. 10 years and we still haven’t scratched the surface of anywhere near a perfectly polished Thief. And i understand how terrifying it is on their end to balance a class that stealths. It’s a nightmare, but there’s been 10 years of brainstorming and thinking to have been done.

It’s kind of unfortunate that out of all the classes, when it comes to gw2 Reddit, and balance updates/nerfs, the reason Thief doesn’t seem to get much attention is because of the lack of attention and representation generated by the Thief community. When it comes to ranger, engineer, warrior, and ESPECIALLY Elementalist nerfs there’s always a sea of threads essentially shining the spot light on their class making Anet aware that they need to do something. It seems as though people are much more eager to start up Reddit threads concerning those classes in comparison to Thief even if Thief had received the worst treatment of them all. Thief is among the lowest played class in the game, so it makes sense why not a lot of threads are made or why not much attention gets drawn to the class, (which would then draw the attention to Anet). But it just sucks because I do really enjoy and love the class, but we need more representation and eyes on us, because every balance we get overshadowed by mass amounts of people starting threads for their class and the Reddit gets over saturated with it, meanwhile Thief is there trying to clot the hemorrhage that consistently follows the balance patches (nerfs) silently and without uproar. Thieves could have the worst balance of them all and there will still be more representation and call outs on Reddit for a different class that received maybe a nerf to their vigor or might gain and there Anet will go completely disregarding and having a complete misperception of the true losers of their balance. sorry it was a bit of a rant. just something I noticed across multiple balance patches.

Well everything I was hoping for in this 300s rework/change kind of fell short. But I still think there is a silver-lining somewhere. These acrobatic changes will be interesting to test out. But overall, pretty disappointing and doesn't seem very "competitive minded" That shroud nerf doesn't look fun. We shall see if all of this rolls out or if our outcries will reach them in time, and make them change their minds.

Wrong Profession Forum My Friend.

Pretty disappointed with the small changes to Thief, because there's a ton of stuff still needing fixing and QoLs. So... Hard to Catch's stunbreak was removed, and now it's just endurance on shadowstep? (That should be pretty interesting on DrD double staff build or double sword,) and definitely interesting on Specter S/X gameplay. That will be pretty strong as strong as S/X Specter ALREADY is lol with alacrity reducing CD for elite skill (daggerstorm) so we almost always have daggerstorm evasion up and Instant reflexes invuln. Just made S/X Specter more of a monster. Well of bounty prioritizing stability first is pretty strong too, so while we are in the midst of battle shadow stepping everywhere, and getting endurance, alac, heals, we also get stability. Specter will be pretty interesting to look at after this. I just hope Specter's Shallow Grave trait isn't just a 120 CD, one can hope but 60sec would be nice, if not 90. Crazy that they didn't remove the tradeoff from Specter, but hopefully that goes away in time.

Just speculation brother. But there was a ‘teaser’ from Anet stating they were looking into 300s Passive trait changes. (Whether that be buff or full rework, we have yet to know)

Hey brother nice seeing you again, yeah I pop in every now and then! I wouldn’t be completely opposed to a complete rework of the 300s Traits either. But I (Hope) they rework them to be ‘better’ than the former. For acrobatics (instant reflexes trait) in the adept line was very crazyyyyy to see, super clutch back in the acro-drd days. I’ve always loved (hard to catch) as a trait too, even back when it would randomly teleport you somewhere, the excitement of that was not knowing where you’d end up 😂. So if they completely rework these 2 traits and offer better options I’d be cool with it. But if they do end up just reducing CDs although lazy, I wouldn’t be opposed to that either, and again, I would say that a ton of specs would even improve with the lower CDs. There’s a ton of traits in general that need to be looked at. Like (deadly aim or deadly ambition I forgot which one it was)in the crit strikes middle line. Nerfs your dmg by 5% but gives you the ability to pierce. (Signet of power trait) in crit strikes needs a buff or rework, all of the hp % threshold traits where you either gain dmg above a hp threshold or you cleanse a condition while above a threshold, those hp percentages need to be looked at, because with this power creep in this game, 1 hit puts you below your threshold if you are like a relative 15-16k Hp thief. I hope the Acrobatics line gets a good rework so it can further set it self apart from DrD. I’m hoping for some good healthy changes.

Depending on how good the buff is. Acrobatics line may see some huge comeback numbers, in (All) specializations. Specter gains even more condi cleanse or a straight evasion frame past threshold, hard to catch or swindlers equilibrium and another condi cleanse choice, and the don’t stop condi cleanse trait or ini regen on dodge. Could be pretty nutty, if your crit chance is atleast above 60 and definitely nutty at 80 crit chance (pre fury). All this is, is just me writing down my thoughts, nothing really seriously thought out and cohesive. But I know if they do these 300s CDs right, then specter will be strong(er). Shallow grave is good enough alone. Pair that with instant reflexes and hard to catch.. (aww I miss when hard to catch randomly shadow stepped us somewhere lol..) We’ll be a walking, unstunnable, non-movement impairing, double hp monster. But that’s just me thinking without actually thinking to deep. I know someone will probably get me to come back to reality with something I probably missed.

Sorry for the late response, I truly appreciate you responding. I was hoping for a bit more feedback from others in the thief community too. Which suggested buffs do you believe are a little much. 🙂 ?

Bro I know!! This is utterly frustrating. Look at my recent thread I made. You’ll see I talked about twilight combo and how it needs a fix. :s

I’ve noticed that bug too. It’s very annoying, especially as an elite skill. This specialization needs some QoLs/Fixes. It’s really not too bad of a Spec, just needs some polishing.

I am unsure about this one. But depending on how you look at it. It’s pretty strong now. Enemies can’t see your aoe circle anymore in WvW and PvP. They used to dodge it before if they saw. But like I said, depends on how you look at it, could be a buff to you and nerf to someone else. Incase they needed that visual cue for themselves.

Hey guys Aiki here, just wanted to offer a list of suggestions I felt would be beneficial and low impact QoL changes/fixes. I've already made a thread about some changes I would like to see back in November, 2021. (But some of the suggested changes are now obsolete, due to the recent SA changes.) And I do apologize, because I am VERY biased, since I play WvW power Specter SC/D-- D/P (roamer) I don't have much experience with SC/P. I believe these simple QoL changes, (that wont break or overpower specter) will be healthy for the spec, because currently all it needs are some QoL changes and polishing love, not full reworks or design changes.. These suggestions are only for Specter, but in terms of Thief in general Critical strikes and Acrobatics need to be reworked and buffed. As well as one shouldn't NEED or have to be dependent on the Trickery line for +3 resource. Preparedness should be baseline. You will open more build diversity with this change. (This particular change has fallen on deaf ears for years now) Specter UNDERWATER is UNFINISHED (It has to be....because shroud abilities underwater don't feel complete, as well as they need increased range and lock on ability), not to mention we lose out on all of our utility Wells and Elite skill. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Scepter auto attack needs increased range, (possibly) vulnerability debuff build up on each A.A (Torment is boring and we have it on every other skill) - Siphon should be instant, why is there a precast - When you use your siphon on an enemy, the (5 stacks for 6s 'vulnerability' debuff) doesn't get applied. Only the 'slow' debuff is applied. Post June balance patch (needs to be fixed) - Get rid of that Siphon (Steal) line of sight/Valid path requirement. PLEASE -Make siphoning an ally actually do something. Currently we just get put on 7s CD (would be cool to give allies boons from a distance, if they aren't in range of thrill of the crime or bountiful theft) - Give Specter specialization a DIFFERENT drawback, taking away 3 initiative while using the specialization (At this point I am used to, but it still sucks), due to our ALREADY limited initiative resource and resource generation, if you are NOT using SA Shadow Rejuv - Stealth attack needs to actually do something useful (because it doesn’t hit hard enough, doesn’t CC, or apply any meaningful condition that you don’t already apply with an AA.) - Give us more access to quickness. (Yes chrono runes exist, I know, but not enough.. this is my selfish wish) - SC/P & SC/D both need better #2 weapon skill options (maybe a leap, small teleport, stun, or just something more utility based entirely) or Increase the damage. (wouldn't be bad if you changed the projectile design on #2 either, so it differentiates itself) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - SC/D #3 Twilight Combo needs a velocity increase in it's 1st projectile Decrease the cost of twilight combo by 1 initiative (if you are not running trickery, you pretty much almost use up your entire resource with 1 skill) Add additional tracking and trajectory correction on twilight combo so it DOESN'T MISS or obstruct when the enemy is LITERALLY in front of you or strafing 50-100m away from you Twilight combo needs to be able to pierce enemies or hit multiple enemies in a cone. Twilight combo could use slight range increase ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - The Second Opinion trait should be changed to a minor trait. Then create an entirely new trait or bring back a legacy Thief trait that meshes well with Specter. Preferably something to do with power. At least give us 1 power trait option OR increase vitality. And if not, increase the healing power and effectiveness of the trait - Get rid of 300s CDs (shallow Grave) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Shroud 2 honestly is a very powerful and good skill. Maybe could benefit from a slight range increase, but in general I like the skill. - Shroud 3 needs increased range for the leap AND initial evasion frame in the beginning of the leap (1s)---( Too many times I leap, and get CC'd before getting in the air.) - Shroud 4 needs the claws range to be increased, needs 1 more strike to be added (in total 3 strikes), and auto lock on target, similar to rangers lock on Rapid fire ability. (Honestly I would even ask for a 360 degree claw barrage, if we can't get the auto lock on, this way there's less of a chance for missing your target.), I wouldn't be mad if shroud 4 gave a stun.. But that's getting too deep into over poweredness in 1 skill. - Shroud 5 should give 1s stability on initial press and 2s stability again after blast finisher Since post June balance patch, shroud 5 AoE ring visual cue has vanished. I DO like that buff/change a lot. Now people aren't dodging out of my aoe stun (could be a buff to some, and a nerf to others.. depends on how you look at it, I always wanted that visual cue gone). I'm just not sure if it was intended or a bug. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - Specter elite (Well) skill needs to have .5 or 1s evasion on initial jump. (too many times I get CC'd while in the initial leap animation and the skill goes on full CD) - Specter elite (Well) could also in addition to pulling, could offer (projectile denial, boon rip for every time the enemy gets knockdown, or pulse blind. (Anyone of those would be cool) - Wells should be flip skills, so we can CHOOSE whether or not we want to Shadowstep into danger. You know.. Autonomy? - Underwater utility Wells are non-existent, and we are cut out from 50% of our spec under water ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ - I’m not sure if anyone mentioned this, but when you’re (FULL) shroud life force, which for me is ( 29k life force ) and then you hop onto your warclaw, and then hop off, you lose 6k force. I went down to 23k life force. (This ONLY happens when at FULL life force ) it’s a similar interaction to how we lose 3 initiative when getting off a warclaw at full initiative while using daredevil or any of the other specializations besides specter. (This needs fixing)

When you use your siphon on Specter on an enemy, the 5 stacks for 6s 'vulnerability' debuff doesn't get applied. Only the 'slow' debuff is applied. Post balance patch.

I’m not sure if anyone mentioned this, but when you’re full shroud life force, which for me was ( 29k life force ) and then you hop onto your warclaw, and then hop off, you lose about 6k force because I went down to 23k force. ( This only happens when at full life force ) it’s a similar interaction to how we lose 3 initiative when getting off a warclaw at full initiative while using daredevil or any of the other specializations besides specter.

This is so very true and unfortunate. But yes, we won’t have the superspeed forever. Community will complain that they can’t catch thieves due to stealth and SuperSpeed, and will be nerfed to swiftness. This is how anet operates.