AikijinX.6258

What I’m curious to know is, what happens when this all fails? And simply doesn’t work out. (I’m talking in regard to single target ally healing) we are pretty much alpha testing this new mechanic on our elite spec. So what happens when it simply doesn’t work out because the game doesn’t run at a pace where single target healing can shine? Does Anet just scrap the idea all together, and rework that Specter ally healing mechanic and just get aoe within range group healing? I know none of you quite have the answer because what I am asking, really Anet can answer, but it’s just something to ponder. Like… what happens when nothing works as expected.

I don’t personally use the trait. So it’s not really a factor for me. Although it was very potent I am not understanding the problem this poses for PvE. Maybe that’s because I am not a PvE player and my scope of seeing issues PvE wise is limited but I can’t see a problem with this potent burst barrier/heal in PvE. We’ll just have to see how this plays out in battle on Tuesday. I think possibly 3s would be ok, if they still want to continue with this acquiring stacks design. And TD trait is something I will play around with extensively Tuesday.

I just had a thought in regard to our stealth attack Shadowsquall. In its current iteration it does: Stealth Attack. Unleash a barrage from the shadows towards your target. Enemy target: Inflict conditions. Damage: 73 (0.2)? Poison (3s): 101 Damage, -33% Heal Effectiveness Number of Hits: 8 To increase its potency while up close and personal within 120-150m of the enemy, why not have a secondary closer version of Shadowsquall. But the caveat would be: Those 8 separate ranged Shadowsqualls get condensed into 1 big damage dealing projectile within effective range. While not taking anything away from the original ranged design of Shadowsqualls stealth attack, just adding the up close and personal version as well. Because no one is going to stand there and just get hit by 8 separate impact hits without dodging atleast once unless AFK or immobilized, etc.

I’m very interested in how fast these new stacks of consume shadows is going to be. And whether or not we have to stay for 5 seconds or 5 consecutive attacks to gain the 5 stacks and then do the aoe support barrier heal. Because as others have said before and on other threads too. Consume shadows will not function in the immediate circumstances where you need to do that split second clutch save on your ally from being downed and killed. And god forbid your shroud itself gets attacked while in it. The shroud itself is very easy to burst down and then is rendered useless to support anyone. I also don’t like the function where you quick tap on like say 1 or 2 stacks and it exhausts your complete shroud. (This is what I am assuming since the change hasn’t been tested yet). So that negates like 80-90% of the effective 50% barrier we get. And I will say that using consume shadows should be directly after (exhausting your other options like Shadestep, that instantly revives when siphoning a downed ally goes on Steal CD)

Yes. Thank you 2 for explaining something that wasn’t clear to me. It totally wasn’t a rhetorical and obvious surface level question that anyone could have answered right off the bat. Look the question was more deep rooted than that, and Like I said in the post if you cared to read further, that this doesn’t effect me personally, I’m just speaking for and with those who disagreed with this change because you know, having a voice is kinda important. But I guess you 2 are okay with being shoehorned into +1’ing someone else in open world content or being the “optimal” choice in a 2 v 2 tournament which is apparently where they want us to excel in and no other aspect of this game.

Wait what for real ?! Oh man. I gotta start paying attention to other professions instead of solely listening to Thief section and tuning out.

Yes that’s absolutely true. I had forgotten to include utilities and siphon in that above comment.

I would just like to add my 2 cents and say that I don’t like how Thieves are being shoe horned into playing and only being viable for 2 v 2 scenarios or +1’ing someone in open world content WHY ON EARTH do YOU get to decide what OUR Specter is going to and SUPPOSED to excel and shine in? Why are you limiting our ability to succeed and compete in other avenues of the game? Wasn’t the trade off or the reason for a skill or trait being SUPER POWERFUL because it was single target? Now we get punished because it’s too powerful? Look I understand it’s a beta, yes, and things change. But handing out these HEAVY nerfs on questionable skills, even before the actual release doesn’t make me feel good for the future of Specter and it’s Balance. Consume Shadows (admittedly I didn’t use over Shallow Grave, because I didn’t like the losing all my shadow force/sustain thing although I know it was super strong, personally it just wasn’t for me.) It was super strong and deservingly needed a little tweak. But that’s just it. Just a LITTLE tweak, nothing so heavy. Do you truly believe that in a 2 v 2 tournament, people wouldn’t just focus bomb the Specter immediately since he’s apparently soo amazing in this situation and where he SUPPOSED to excel, do NOT force me into a box. Gw2 survived this long and competed against many other MMO’s that aren’t doing as well anymore because this game isn’t as 1 dimensional and limiting as other MMO’s are. There was freedom and choice to be had with build crafting and such. I implore you Anet to increase target support capability to 10 or ATLEAST 5 and if not, then our 1 target skills are supposed to be STUPID STRONG since it would be limited to 1 ally target. Last comment: You didn’t want us to be able to perma Quickness/Alacrity support. Then why give this to us in the first place? You want us to be Alacrity slaves (kinda weird since it does nothing to our initiative and only benefits shroud, utility and Siphon. In Guild wars 1 wasnt the Assassin (our classes cousin) able to kill with quickness and efficiency? Why do we have such little access to quickness as a whole, as a class? Thieves in general are supposed to execute with quickness and efficiency, where did something go wrong? If our job is intended for us to be the alacrithief then why not dedicate a minor trait for something along the lines of AoE alacrity every few seconds? Last Last comment: I mainly WvW at the moment Roaming, dueling and small ops is what I mainly do, so the changes don’t effect me too much since I play kind of selfishly. I definitely don’t take consume shadows because it’s just not my playstyle. Sc/D power is what I will main while playing Specter and it’s really strong currently. The purpose of the thread was to have my voice be heard along with speaking FOR and WITH the many out spoken voices out there frustrated with these heavy nerfs to Sc/P and trait reworks (NERFS). EDIT: I also wanted to just comment for Beta 3 OVERALL, I enjoyed Specter and thought it was great to play. All it needed was a couple QoL changes on some skills and traits and it would’ve been good. But the hard-cap nerfs are very overwhelming. This is still beta, so things are subject to change and even change and go as far as an entire rework just like they did Deadeye back then. I am still optimistic that Anet will get things right in the end. Since the initial beta 3 Specter felt GREAT. /Rantover

There's no time limit on the poll, so it will not close. So it'll be here :). And i'll bump if needed

I can only hope that this poll is helpful in accumulating data. And I can only ask that Anet does truly look and observe these numbers

Godly Change Imagine making a fix for Twilight Combo and it NOT being for a velocity increase on the 1st projectile. They at least listened to the Thief feedback at least with this one Pretty ok change. I hated the randomness of the dash. I still don't understand why on EARTH we got a nerf to the fear. And later down the line it'll be from 1.5 down to 1s (Mark my words). It's absolutely insane all these arbitrary and uncalled for nerfs. I do like the Leap finisher though. I wonder what the animation will be like. Heartseeker, vault, or rocketboot. Nice Good

Thief - Specter We saw a lot of eagerness for the addition of a support specialization to the Thief. Beta 3 generated a lot of excellent buildcraft and discussion, and we've begun tuning the Specter for an appropriate debut in End of Dragons. Key pieces of feedback that we identified were: 1) Consume Shadows was causing Shadow Shroud to feel like something you should enter, and then immediately exit, to get Consume Shadows' healing effect as quickly as possible. This diminished the utility and fun of the Shroud skills themselves, as it was a strong reason to never use them. Specific changes made in response to this feedback: The maximum potential healing and barrier from Consume Shadows will now grow stronger for every second you are in Shroud, up to 5 seconds. In Shadow Shroud itself, the skill Dawn's Repose has been changed from a dash into a ground-targeted leap, to make it easier to target a specific location, and is now a leap finisher. 2) Endless Night, by affecting three targets, was creating expected gameplay of manually selecting and 'rotating' between different targets in a group, in order to sustain quickness on multiple targets. This isn't very fun to do. Specific changes made in response to this feedback: We'd rather not have Specter able to strongly cover both Alacrity and Quickness for groups, and so have decided to focus on the Alacrity aspect. Endless Night has been adjusted to only target one ally. This may maintain a strong all-around support role for a focused target in certain gameplay, such as 2v2 PvP or playing with a friend in the open world, while allowing Specter to still fill healing and alacrity support roles for group play. Full List of Specter changes: Siphon: Using this skill will now stop auto-attacking, to better accommodate for traits like Hidden Thief that grant stealth. Scepter: Triple Bolt: Fixed a bug that caused this ability to be queued twice. Shadow Sap: Fixed the skill fact for barrier application Endless Night: The number of targets this ability affects has been reduced from 3 to 1. Slow and Quickness application has been reduced from 2 to 1.5 seconds. Fixed a bug that caused the targeted ally to not be affected when attempting to fire through multiple allies. Shroud: Leaving Shadow Shroud now sets the Shadow Shroud ability on full cooldown. Dawn's Repose: This ability is now a ground-targeted ability instead of a ground-targeted dash. Range has been reduced from 600 to 450, with the affected radius being reduced from 240 to 180 and Fear being reduced from 2 seconds to 1.5. This ability is now a leap finisher. Eternal Night: Updated VFX slightly. Reduced aftercast. Traits: Shadestep: Broken barrier will now be distributed evenly among allies affected. Consume Shadows: This trait has been reworked and the maximum healing potential reduced in PvE. Activating Shadow Shroud now grants a stack of Consume Shadows, and the specter will gain a stack of Consume Shadows every second while in shroud, up to 5 stacks. When you exit Shadow Shroud, your Shadow Force is consumed, and for each stack of Consume Shadows that you have, 10% of the consumed Shadow Force is converted into healing for nearby allies. Healing past the target's maximum health will be granted as barrier. Bug Fixes: Lead Attacks: No longer reduces the cooldown of Shadow Shroud. Siphon: No longer requires a pathing check in order to execute. Twilight Combo: The second attack of this ability is no longer jump-cancellable. Haunt Shot: Removed the odd smoke bomb that appeared at the specter's feet. Updated the ability to fire from the character's hand instead of head. Swindler's Equilibrium: Now properly recharges Siphon. Assassin's Reward: Now functions correctly with Scepter abilities. Hidden Thief: Stealth now activates much quicker when using Siphon.

I would make top line about buff, mid about on evade and bottom about shadowstep/mouvement skill. You talking for Grandmaster tier or all the tiers?

I would pretty much keep the condition removal traits that the acro line already has, as well as the stun break traits but reorganize them a bit. And Add 1 extra trait to each tier. - Move (instant reflexes) to a minor Adept trait (leaving a trait slot available for adept tier) - Get rid of feline’s grace minor Master trait, making (Hard to catch) the new minor Master trait (leaving a trait slot available for the bottom 3rd Master tier slot) - Get rid of endless stamina minor Grandmaster, making (Don’t stop) the new minor GM trait and removing entirely (assassins reward), since it’s absolutely useless because the heal coefficient/value sucks and is still bugged. (This will open up and make available a new grandmaster trait: For instance a potential one could be like: Gain Superspeed every time you successfully evade an attack(for 2s with a 3s ICD) Although… I want to suggest SuperSpeed on dodge entirely but I know that will make daredevils dash obsolete😵‍💫 but honestly.. would it really? Because Drd is it’s own specialization entirely and 1 Grandmaster trait won’t define it. I got rid of those vigor minor traits because vigor is mehhh to me. Plus the vigor we get from bountiful theft (assuming you take that, is enough) plus the fact that you can take (Vigorous Recovery Major Adept trait), PLUS the instant stamina restore we get back from using Steal is substantial, plus we’d have (Hard to catch) as a minor trait to instantly restore 100% stamina on stun break. and (assassins reward) as I said above.. is soooo Mehhh. EDIT: Possibly for the replacement of the Adept and Master traits you can bring back 2 of the historically removed Acro traits. @Fire Attunement.9835

I don’t believe there is anything wrong with having at least 1 power related trait incorporated into the Specialization. Number 1. There’s already the Well of Tears utility that solely offers a power damage type of attack, since there’s no conditions tied to it. And Number 2. Twilight Combo's initial projectile damage is 1,182 and a (mehhhh) 394 for the 2nd projectile. That is a pretty substantial initial base number, for a Heal/Support Spec. And can I just say.. when that Twilight Combo Crit's oh BOIIIIIII does it.. and in combination with the Trickery minor trait (Lead attacks). The damage is scrumptious. Look, I am fully aware this spec is not power based and the role that it was meant to occupy does not require power in any facet. However while this may be true, why is there such a high initial dmg number on twilight combo, when all the other weapon skills and utility damage ranges around 500-600 for their initial base damage numbers, (and yes I know shroud skills have skill dmg ranging between the 1000s and 2000s for base dmg.) I think having at least 1 power derived trait would and could work. I still stand behind a +150 condi and +150 power trait. I still don't believe we should completely write off the idea and not give ANY option to Specter players in terms of how they want to play the class. They already force our autonomy with non-flip skill Well utilities, (So we just shadowstep into whatever danger or bad situation there might be, instead of placing the Well down and having the OPTION to choose for ourselves) I think it's fair to ask or request that 1 trait be allocated for some type of power stat gain.

It’s funny how all the threads that had locked content in them came from the top 3 duel spec’d classes sub forum. Does this mean that these classes are the most toxic, and all the other classes are a bit more wholesome, less argumentative, and happier with their class in general?😂 Noticing this today gave me quite a laugh. What do you guys think?

Literally the warrior axe 🪓 AA animation

Yeah very much true. Spear thief is still Godlike under water regardless of the spec

The passive traits work, but the utility skills don’t, nor does the elite. We are completely shut off from using Specter skills underwater

I REALLY like that option of changing the flip skill from measured shot and splitting it between #2 and #3. They don’t need to spend resources making or reworking a skill either. That’s a great suggestion. However the Self might from Shadow Sap really is useful. So possibly take the 5 stacks of might from Shadow Sap and slap it on the new #2 Well they pretty much gave us a Power (Well). Well of Tears. Yeah pretty tearful indeed. But we need some type of power trait atleast 1. Or atleast like a split attribute trait like +150 power +150 condi damage.

I would argue the same thing. Not all of them need to be shadowsteps. I think these Wells are alittle silly honestly. But Well of bounty definitely is a nice one 🙂 I just wish that one of the Wells we had acted as projectile denial…. Yes we have smoke screen and also that other “Preparation” utility skill, but would’ve been nice if we had another one.

- Stealth attack needs to actually do something useful (doesn’t hit hard, doesn’t CC, doesn’t apply any meaningful condition that you don’t already apply with an AA. - I love quickness. Give us access to self quickness. - SC/P & SC/D both need better #2 weapon skill options (maybe a leap or teleport, or something more utility based) - SC/D #3 Twilight Combo needs a velocity increase in it's 1st projectile - Add additional Tracking on twilight combo - Twilight combo needs to be able to pierce enemies or hit multiple enemies in a cone. - Second Opinion should be changed to a minor trait. Then create an entirely new trait or bring back a legacy Thief trait that meshes well with Specter. Preferably something to do with power. At least give us 1 power trait option lol. - Fix the delay between our shadow arts Concealing Restoration minor shadow arts trait and our Healing Well utility - Fix the delay between Hidden Thief Shadow arts trait and Siphon (Steal) - Swindler's Equilibrium doesn't lower Siphon (Steal) CD on evade - Get rid of that Siphon (Steal) line of sight/Valid path requirement. - Shroud 3 needs better tracking and longer distance (900) Way too many times I’m targeting someone and it just goes a completely different direction even while facing towards them - Shroud 3 needs an evade frame or invuln frame or something on initial activation - Shroud 4 should have tracking and longer range, - Shroud 5 should give 1s stability on press and reward 2s stability again if it hits target - .5 or 1s Stability when entering shroud. Too many times I try to enter shroud and get CC'd, then both my F1 and F2 go on CD. - Take off that annoying CD that appears on Siphon (Steal) whenever you get CC'd. There's a 3s CD whenever you get CC'd that occurs on BOTH F1 and F2. - One would think that the new Specter trait (Shadestep- Which grants barrier and revives downed allies when you siphon on them) and the Shadow Arts trait (Merciful Ambush- Stealth and heal and ally when reviving them) one would think that these 2 traits would share a unique interaction where you’d assume that you could range- stealth ally and heal/barrier an ally with those 2 traits, since they’re both “revive ally” skills - Well of Tears and Second opinion speak for themselves? (Well of Tears) is a Power Well on a support/heal spec that does negligible damage. Quite tearful indeed. And the major adept trait (Second Opinion) trait definitely does need a “second opinion” if they think this trait is anywhere near ready, useful, complete or competent enough to stand on its own against the other traits, especially the one that you literally don’t need to spec into any heal power to use because of barrier. - I believe our elite skill (Well) ability needs to have something else tied to it because currently it's somewhat lackluster. Maybe with each pull it rips a boon or something. -And also is it too much to ask to have an ULTIMATE be 900-1200 range, something that sets it apart from the regular Utility wells? - One of the (Wells) need some type of stun break - The elite skill (Well) could also in addition to pulling. It could offer projectile denial as well, or pulse blind. - Wells should be flip skills, so we can CHOOSE whether or not we want to Shadowstep into DANGER You know.. Autonomy? - Underwater utility Wells are none existent, and don't work - Siphon- Make Siphon not require a target so we can utilize (hidden thief trait) or other steal compatible traits like thrill of the crime ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - I just had a thought in regard to our stealth attack Shadowsquall. In its current iteration it does: Stealth Attack. Unleash a barrage from the shadows towards your target. Enemy target: Inflict conditions. Damage: 73 (0.2)? Poison (3s): 101 Damage, -33% Heal Effectiveness Number of Hits: 8 To increase its potency while up close and personal within 120-150m of the enemy, why not have a secondary closer version of Shadowsquall. But the caveat would be: Those 8 separate ranged Shadowsqualls get condensed into 1 big damage dealing projectile within effective range. While not taking anything away from the original ranged design of Shadowsqualls stealth attack, just adding the up close and personal version as well. Because no one is going to stand there and just get hit by 8 separate impact hits without dodging atleast once unless AFK or immobilized, etc. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I would pretty much keep the condition removal traits that the acro line already has, as well as the stun break traits but reorganize them a bit. And Add 1 extra trait to each tier. - Move (instant reflexes) to a minor Adept trait (leaving a trait slot available for adept tier) - Get rid of feline’s grace minor Master trait, making (Hard to catch) the new minor Master trait (leaving a trait slot available for the bottom 3rd Master tier slot) - Get rid of endless stamina minor Grandmaster, making (Don’t stop) the new minor GM trait and removing entirely (assassins reward), since it’s absolutely useless because the heal coefficient/value sucks and is still bugged. (This will open up and make available a new grandmaster trait: For instance a potential one could be like: Gain Superspeed every time you successfully evade an attack(for 2s with a 3s ICD) Although… I want to suggest SuperSpeed on dodge entirely but I know that will make daredevils dash obsolete😵‍💫 but honestly.. would it really? Because Drd is it’s own specialization entirely and 1 Grandmaster trait won’t define it. I got rid of those vigor minor traits because vigor is mehhh to me. Plus the vigor we get from bountiful theft (assuming you take that, is enough) plus the fact that you can take (Vigorous Recovery Major Adept trait), PLUS the instant stamina restore we get back from using Steal is substantial, plus we’d have (Hard to catch) as a minor trait to instantly restore 100% stamina on stun break. and (assassins reward) as I said above.. is soooo Mehhh. EDIT: Possibly for the replacement of the Adept and Master traits you can bring back 2 of the historically removed Acro traits. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

But also if you really look at it. Guardian was busted back then too. And Warrior.

Bruh none of Specter's utilities work underwater.

It's unfortunate what they did to my boy Acro. They massacred my boy. If you look at the other thread I made on the old Thief traits, you'll see all the old Acro traits that were apparently too much for todays meta, plus they had to make room for Daredevil at the time. -_-.