Arheundel.6451

You're like a goldfish in a small bowl...who think to be king of the "ocean"...whatever you say pal

You have no idea what you're talking about, this is a complete non-sense

They ARE the optimal choice. See second post. Just because your commander is lazy or you don't see why they are doesn't mean they aren't. I don't know why people have to be broken records and repeat this over and over. The META as defined by metabattle is incredibly narrow in its vision because it's providing a simple structure for newer players/comms to perform fights easily. What's VIABLE is filling your zerg with scourges and firebrands, and what might be the issue is that doing so with soulbeasts and druids isn't and that makes people sad. But putting rangers in your zerg is 100% certainly the optimal way to play it. Do you know what this does?https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resistance Even better...have you ever faced a bunch of condi revs which are quite common in zergs these days? Can you please stop proposing a noob stomper gimmick as OPTIMAL build? I haven't proposed any builds as optimal, just that they exist. I'm aware of what resistance does. It's almost like there's things in the game that get rid of it and prevent its application. It's ALMOST like proper team and party coordination results in much stronger effects than a stagnant composition with no diversity. Dagger brought up a 50v50 in a choke and how scourges would rock there. That's great. What do scourges do when there's siege on the t3 floor of SMC. It couldn't be nothing, right? It's nothing? Huh.... Oh, what if there's an enemy with a banner staying at 1.5k range harassing your squad with skill 3s everytime you try to push. I bet the scourges have that totally covered. Right? Right...? The meta is currently defined by being the laziest way to succeed to a small degree because winning doesn't mean anything. If there was actually competition and you needed to pivot to handle lots of situations good rangers would be just as much a needed commodity, and the only thing stopping them from getting used is laziness/lack of motivation. Some of that is on Anet, some of that is on us. But it's not on the class balance. Do you know what is this?https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Reflect I don't think you have a clear picture of the whole situation , do you realize that banners are normally picked by organized guilds whose members have like reached r3-4k?......Enough of this non-sense already

A "bit" more skill is an understatement , there was a video (now deleted) of a streamer ( He left GW2 ) who was playing necro by mapping the mouse over his forehead , he called his video : spamwhichmancer build , one hand to wsad and the other rolling the mouse over his forehead. Thanks for the laugh! That ele is feeding the whole 8 second spectral armor duration of that core necro, granting it tons of life force for free. That's like unloading a burst into infused light (herald heal) and calling it OP. And he bursted into shroud instead of just spamming trash attacks into it while it degenerates to save the burst for the shroud downtime. The ele did basically everything wrong. Classic brainless buttonmashing and whining when it doesn't work out.Necro players are so deluded........I'd love to see you on ele , put the money where the mouth is

They ARE the optimal choice. See second post. Just because your commander is lazy or you don't see why they are doesn't mean they aren't. I don't know why people have to be broken records and repeat this over and over. The META as defined by metabattle is incredibly narrow in its vision because it's providing a simple structure for newer players/comms to perform fights easily. What's VIABLE is filling your zerg with scourges and firebrands, and what might be the issue is that doing so with soulbeasts and druids isn't and that makes people sad. But putting rangers in your zerg is 100% certainly the optimal way to play it. Do you know what this does?https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Resistance Even better...have you ever faced a bunch of condi revs which are quite common in zergs these days? Can you please stop proposing a noob stomper gimmick as OPTIMAL build?

A "bit" more skill is an understatement , there was a video (now deleted) of a streamer ( He left GW2 ) who was playing necro by mapping the mouse over his forehead , he called his video : spamwhichmancer build , one hand to wsad and the other rolling the mouse over his forehead. This is a pure money grab plan to attract as many whales as possible to the game by letting them play something like this That was when scourge greater and lesser shades was 5 targets and faster CD on sand savant. It changed multiple times to the point where it's back but now has that but has 3 targets. You can't do that anymore.Huh? The video depict a core necro not a scourge!

The point of the thread is that other professions now have optimal builds both for zerging and small scale leaving ranger and thief relegated to just small scale, that's simply not fair and ofc....you will always people advocating against fairness as long as they get their way first. Hammer rev?...they have condi and power herald roaming buildsScourge?..they have obnoxious signet core necro and reaper for roamingFb?...they have burn/power dragonhunter and coreScrapper?...easy holosmith and condi scrapper Ranger and thief are still good at running and that's it, other professions can easily overwhelm and outpace any ranger/thief build thrown in their face so the whole argument : best roamer class...goes out of the window and I know that because I do play other professions against ranger/thief and they are the easiest ones to kill in duels by a mile compared to say a condi rev, a "never die" holo or scrapper or core necro or even damn dragon hunter with several blocks where it seems to get forever before you can get through all of them A single rotation on my burn guardian and 3/4 of the ranger/thieves I meet in wvw will insta die......this argument best roaming class has stopped being true years ago. All roaming specs on ranger have been nerfed to the damn ground and it takes some serious effort now to overcome all the cheese other professions are capable of. For all those nerfs there never was any resemblance of compensation in the case of a semi-viable zerg build...meanwhile you have classes like necro or guardian...

A "bit" more skill is an understatement , there was a video (now deleted) of a streamer ( He left GW2 ) who was playing necro by mapping the mouse over his forehead , he called his video : spamwhichmancer build , one hand to wsad and the other rolling the mouse over his forehead. This is a pure money grab plan to attract as many whales as possible to the game by letting them play something like this

A ranger can chill at the top of damage meters with barrage by itself. I've done it. So you TOP the damage meter with barrage...ok...video pls...pls...PLEASE https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/95962795765415936/735631781251776542/unknown.png Apparently didn't record that particular night, but do have a video of my very first time trying it. Started the fight late (can see from the time discrepancy) but managed to hold at ~the DPS levels of some INCREDIBLY GOOD scourges and heralds. Wasn't even a competition vs an average or bad one. Don't have access to the computer with the video atm so the screen will have to do. I probably wouldn't stack this in a zerg, though I've tried something akin to that as jokes and it was far more effective than people would have you believe. But, if you want a zerg to be stacked with rangers frankly I don't find that appealing at all. I'd rather have classes have strengths and weaknesses to the point that in a 25 man zerg you want to run 15+ different specializations to be truly effective. A soulbeast or two running around doing what I'm doing is very much in line with that, and people have posted several different builds that do that with.1m difference to get 2-3x more DPS than you who is forced to use 40s+ CD utilities/elites to gain that short window of dmg : sic'em + one wolf pack? But whatever I am not here to discuss what people consider good, made the thread more as a reminder. It's 2020 and almost all professions basically get to enjoy small and large scale but when it comes to rangers or thieves this should not be allowed other than for some personal bias . Some people still going with their drama act : ranger and thief best roamers which is now factually not true I can jump on guardian and load burn dragon hunter and destroy all but the best ranger/thief player out there...when I am tired of roaming I can load burning core guard and spamm 2-3 with the staff and sword of justice off CD to go and collect 30-40 bags within 1hr at worst......where are the weaknesses here?, I am not asking for nerfs here, I do main guardian also so I know what I am talking about...not like the guy before you who claimed that Druid could clear condis from allies like a firebrand...I don't talk out of my behind....

The reason Ranger has no place in many zergs has to do with the braindead way the vast majority of players use the class.Stance Share and Immob spam are excellent contributors in WvW groups. Druid can do condi clear on a competitive level with Spellbreaker and Firebrand.A good soulbeast absolutely has a place in a t1 zerg. But what do "Ranger mains" do?Pew pew uselessly from the top of walls and squirrel off tag ad-nauseum hoping for a scrap of WxP.They get constantly jebaited out of position, they think nothing about what they bring to groups.They rock Longbow like it's the only weapon in their kit ignoring the value that Axe and GS can bring.They LB4 targets out of melee's position instead of using the skill situationally, and they think Barrage is acceptable damage. Most comms would be happy if your average ranger could Push on tag, keep their supply up and build on time....But you know what?Most "Ranger mains" can't manage these simple tasks and somehow think it's the job of an elite spec to give them a place in a zerg instead of just playing at the same minimum standard as the rest of us. Do you even have a ranger to speak so badly about those actually maining it? I do have a warrior fully geared, I can roam and zerg with it np, I like to run tactics/spellbreaker build.....what about you on ranger?I run Two ranger builds in WvW. I "mained" Ranger for the first 3-4 months I played this game in both PvE and WvW. I understand the class pretty well.I have no problem getting in a group because I pull my weight. I my server has been T1 for a while.That said...Neither I, nor Risen Howl need to actually play the class to see full well just how AWFUL most WvW Rangers are.Arc shows the substandard performance and lack of contribution, the corpses show the ineptitude, and the forum qq by players who think Anet needs provide them a guaranteed spot in a group tells the rest of the tale.Those of us who actually understand the kit know this is a issue with an entire class' level of play, not the class itself. Play better. Encourage other Rangers to play better. Meet the same expectations other players are instead of asking Anet for yet another crutch.It's the actual answer.You make loads of assumptions without prior knowledge of the parties involved...your whole argument is based on assumptions...I don't make assumptions. I only need to repost part of your comment here : On the forum everybody act like a God of PvP but it's quite easy in the end to dismantle their arguments , drop the act already....you should at the very least have description knowledge of what you pretend to know https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Druidic_Clarity Please stop embarrassing yourself any further

The bias is so strong....it'd be pointless to keep going with the discussion

Yes this game is a casual game, why do you think the majority of the WvW playerbase played Scourge? because it required skill? Now of course people played Scourge because they love Necro in general which is fine, but lets not pretend that Scourge required any skill, it is easiest meta spec to play out of them all, Please play the other classes and tell us how you get on. It's just as easy to play a bad scourge, as it is to play a bad weaver.But the good players of both, scourge and weaver are pretty rare. Yes scourge is easier to start with, but if you want to actually be good, you have to predict enemy movement just as well, as an ele has to. Throwing your spike at the right spot at the right time, and placing shades, on the most effective positions is crucial for a good scourge.Also knowing, when breach is best to use. It's basically the exact same as ele. With the difference, that ele is a backliners, while scourges go to the front. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scourge_-_Power_CursesWTH do you need to predict here if everything is instant cast and instant activation with less than 30s CD on average, are you for real now with your bias? Do you honestly think that anybody here including necro players ( except you ofc) think that necro in any shape or form is close to ele in terms of effort required? You must be the only necro player who think that scourges are hard to play...like for real Well of course it is. Ele just needs to use one skill at the right time to do massive damage, and has a lot of skills besides that, inbuilt sustain and boons. you are right that scourge has many instant activation skills, but the skills are very, very weak in comparision. Scourge does laughable damage without wells, especially if oyu mean AoE damage. They nowaday corrupts a measily amount of boons compared by how many boons and condi clears are being spamed. All of the really damaging skills are AoE based. Wells deal their damage over 5 freaking seconds, yet a braindead skill like CoR with 0 setup, a way lower cooldown and 0 counterplay as its not even a projectile, deals absurd amounts of damage to an absurd amount of targets. Everything a scourge does needs to be prepared and timed correctly If you wanna do good damage, this includes wellspikes. Where as a revenant just needs to spam low cooldown skills, with no counterplay, and a way higher damage without any thought to be better dps wise. Ele really is the same, and has a lot of OSHIT buttons. Eles and Revs dont even NEED utility skills to deal damage, they do damage baseline with weapon skills. Where as every necro spec sacrifices utility skills simply for the need of doing dps. Even if you play a near perfect scourge, which you really need to play good, with timing and all, you deal less overall damage and support than any halfway decent revenant or guardian or ele will. OMFG Such level of intensity and skilled gameplay...only a robot could play this class so masterfully.... I hope this video guide will help me to master necro P.S Can we see a video of you playing staff weaver in WvW please??

The reason Ranger has no place in many zergs has to do with the braindead way the vast majority of players use the class.Stance Share and Immob spam are excellent contributors in WvW groups. Druid can do condi clear on a competitive level with Spellbreaker and Firebrand.A good soulbeast absolutely has a place in a t1 zerg. But what do "Ranger mains" do?Pew pew uselessly from the top of walls and squirrel off tag ad-nauseum hoping for a scrap of WxP.They get constantly jebaited out of position, they think nothing about what they bring to groups.They rock Longbow like it's the only weapon in their kit ignoring the value that Axe and GS can bring.They LB4 targets out of melee's position instead of using the skill situationally, and they think Barrage is acceptable damage. Most comms would be happy if your average ranger could Push on tag, keep their supply up and build on time....But you know what?Most "Ranger mains" can't manage these simple tasks and somehow think it's the job of an elite spec to give them a place in a zerg instead of just playing at the same minimum standard as the rest of us. Do you even have a ranger to speak so badly about those actually maining it? I do have a warrior fully geared, I can roam and zerg with it np, I like to run tactics/spellbreaker build.....what about you on ranger?

Where are these TOP dmg "immobilize soulbeast" and most of all.......where is your ranger?

A ranger can chill at the top of damage meters with barrage by itself. I've done it. So you TOP the damage meter with barrage...ok...video pls...pls...PLEASE

How is the lack of ranged aoe weapons a myth?

Unless you catch somebody off guard while/after a fight..you won't kill any half decent player on a burst pewpew ranger.....with all this talk of ranger longbow...what are you trying to prove? I don't see the point with your discussion. You seem to forget about : condi heralds, burn guardians, reapers, core signet necros, bunker weavers, holosmiths, scrappers, spellbreakers etc etc . The point of this thread was to emphasize the lack of decent zerg builds for ranger and thief while other profession enjoy a healthy presence both in small and large scale...I see no problem with my request. If I must change class to enjoy large group fights ..fine....but then we need to take a hard long look at all other roamer specs...they shouldn't be able to even touch a ranger or thief then and that simply because those professions already enjoy their big zerg fights

A thief does only die, when he wants to. It can escape from a 50 man blob with two skills and not even another thief can stop it. And if you have a good terrain awareness, then ranger is the king of roaming due to its range and mobility. Dragon hunter reveal + sic'em can make short work of your hopes of escaping on thief, not impossible to run away...but these days it's not impossible to kill a thief before he can manage to run away With little to no access to unblockable, any ranged burst can be quickly be taken care of and then a herald or dragon hunter or thief can easily reach you and kill you off that's because you'd be running a glass cannon to deal any resemblance of dmg

Ranger "range" has been neutered by numerous nerfs and now even your glassiest build will fail to burst down anything sitting above full zerk stat combo, a burst that comes from the use of 30s+ CD utilities on top of 3 offensive traitlines/skills. Let me not start on "barrier and reflect" spam which completely shuts down any resemblance of ranged dmg Thief uses shortbow and shadowsteap for mobility..for any AoE application they would have to give up that mobility which is the only thing keeping them away from insta death, for how much we all(including me) hate thieves...let's try to be less biased in this case We don't know what the devs are really capable off...sometimes they nail it ( dragon hunter - chronomancer -scrapper -tempest -reaper - soulbeast)..others they don't, we can only pray but god it'd be a no deal for me if they'll ask me to play yet another duellist build on ranger

Also there is a reason GW2 doesnt have so many limitations on your "main". You are meant to play different classes. So pick another if you want a specific purpose. As you say - almost all of them can do it. Except that they're not by a long shot! There is no duelling ranger or thief build that cannot be demolished by a say guardian, necro, engi etc etc....feel free to try and prove me wrong. Never had a problem with switching class especially because...I do that already and for that reason I can talk on the other hand you give no explanation why ranger and thief should be barred from zerg play. People play burn guardian in small scale all the times or reaper burst or tank scrapper with rocket boot .....

Let's not have a repeat of scourge fiasco with the upcoming elite specs. Don't go crazy with the AoE spam like it has been with the PoF specs, while it may be fun in PvE ...AoE is that much more unfun to deal with in PvP/WvW. On a second note : stealth , this is another mechanic that should not be given graciously , much thought should be given before allowing access to such powerful mechanic , please no more deadeye with stealth on dodge. Overall...Anet must be very very careful with the balance of the future elites, the community is that much more unforgiving compared to PoF launch, the scouge fiasco pushed many players away from the game. More balancing and testing is required, this time around more consideration must be given to the feedback coming from the beta weekend events. I pray for a better expansion this time around and most of all : I am expecting a WvW zerg build for rangers...no more duellis builds, don't need another one really, just a personal thought here though

Each class and each build requires it's own effort to play.As each class has it's upsides and downs, you can say that all of them are so-so similar in terms of effort required to play.As for example, one day you may feel unbeatable, and the other day you're trampled over like an ant... Just because you believe it's so easy to play Necromancer, doesn't mean it applies to everyone and everyone's situation they are finding themselves in while playing it. It's all nice and well said but...I don't need validation , I am not talking about my personal opinion; all TOP players, streamers...even the devs they all state the same : necro is easy to play, much easier to play than an ele. I mean just compare the stats required to play each other : one can go full tank with over 30k HP while the other must go full glass while having 14k HP on average...and be forced on a rooting stance to cast its hardest hitting skill that get absorbed anyway by the upcoming barrier spam

https://metabattle.com/wiki/WvW This is mostly a reminder to Anet with the upcoming 3rd expansion, there is hope this time around these two professions will see a decent (not even asking for meta status) Zerg level of fight build and iteration, I am suggesting this because at this point all other professions enjoy both a zerg and small group presence...all except ranger and thief, been like this since launch. It's not possible anymore to use the same excuse: best roamer because simply speaking they're not, I don't think there is a "best roamer" spec anymore, no build atm guarantee you impunity...you can be killed even on a SA deadeye, which represents the epitome of "running away" -Revenants can zerg/small group with power and condi herald-Necros can zerg/small group with core necro-scourge and reaper-Engis have scrapper and holosmith-Guardians have firebrand, core guard and dragonhunter-Eles have Tempest and weaver-Warriors have spellbreaker and berseker-Mesmers have chronomancer, mirage and core mesmer All the mentioned above, do well/great in both zerg and small scenario , when talk about small scale ofc I don't refer only to running ability on a flat surface kind of roaming. Sadly Ranger suffers from "class mechanic" issues to join zerg fight = the pets simply insta die to aoe and thieves can't be given an overarching sustain ability for very obvious reasons ; I don't know how Anet can fix this problem but..... There would be no point in buying another expansion, play another elite...only to be once again a 1vs1 duellist

Yes this game is a casual game, why do you think the majority of the WvW playerbase played Scourge? because it required skill? Now of course people played Scourge because they love Necro in general which is fine, but lets not pretend that Scourge required any skill, it is easiest meta spec to play out of them all, Please play the other classes and tell us how you get on. It's just as easy to play a bad scourge, as it is to play a bad weaver.But the good players of both, scourge and weaver are pretty rare. Yes scourge is easier to start with, but if you want to actually be good, you have to predict enemy movement just as well, as an ele has to. Throwing your spike at the right spot at the right time, and placing shades, on the most effective positions is crucial for a good scourge.Also knowing, when breach is best to use. It's basically the exact same as ele. With the difference, that ele is a backliners, while scourges go to the front. https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Scourge_-_Power_CursesWTH do you need to predict here if everything is instant cast and instant activation with less than 30s CD on average, are you for real now with your bias? Do you honestly think that anybody here including necro players ( except you ofc) think that necro in any shape or form is close to ele in terms of effort required? You must be the only necro player who think that scourges are hard to play...like for real

Is mortar fine too? that's holosmith too..no wait.....-_-