Unlink trait and elite weapon?

[Ferret.3087]

On 9/18/2021 at 9:54 AM, Ashantara.8731 said:

It would have been nice if we didn't have elite specs at all, i.e. if they had rather kept GW1's profession and skill system to begin with. Simple concept, the option of dual-classing, and 2 new professions per expansion that fit their respective expac setting perfectly.

 

Instead, they have created such a mishmash with their trait lines and elite specs that professions have lost their basic identity. And now that they need to come up with new elite specs for each expac, it's getting wilder and weirder - like, "How do I create something new out of this chaos? Oh, let's try this and that!"

 

It was a very bad decision to drop Guild Wars' initial system, which was perfect, great fun, super flexible, yet easy to balance (because it was much simpler at its core).

 

Look I love GW 1 - I also prefer the GW 1 Skill system over GW 2 but to say that it was balanced and also complain GW 2 classes have lost their identity relatively is laughable.

The GW 1 skill system was so difficult to balance that it's part of the reason they created a whole new game - They were already running out of ideas on what to do with the skill system after nightfall which was clear with the amount of duplicate skills and the introduction of way more commonly accessible PvE skills after Nightfall and EoTN. The flexibility in the GW 1 Skill system allowed some pretty ridiculous builds to emerge which in turn forced people to play builds specifically made to counter those over powered builds which just turned into an infinite loop of unbalance. Also in terms of Class identity the only class identity GW 1 had was in the actual visuals of the class and animation - but class identity went out the window when at one point in time rangers used ritualist skills better then ritualists as one example, and even today Necro heroes are better at Monk builds, better than actual Monks in GW 1.

Edited September 19, 2021 by Ferret.3087

[kharmin.7683]

On 9/18/2021 at 3:06 PM, decease.3215 said:

 

because when i do hard content, i tend to switch build around.  sometimes i forget the change weapon spec, and end up with daredevil with rifle/pistol.   obviously i can't use any of the rifle skill, i can only one set of weapon.   this is even more frustrating when you build around switching weapon to gain bonus. 

 

i need some sort of one key switch both weapon and trait.. or at least able to use my off spec weapon in case i made a mistake during quick switch.

So, this is more of a you problem than a systemic game issue and you want Anet to make grand, perhaps game-breaking changes to fix what you find to be a problem?

[decease.3215]

On 9/20/2021 at 7:11 AM, kharmin.7683 said:

So, this is more of a you problem than a systemic game issue and you want Anet to make grand, perhaps game-breaking changes to fix what you find to be a problem?

please explain what make it "game-breaking"??  able to use rifle on a daredevil break game balance???   please give an example. 

 

Anet separate equipment template and trait template, each elite specialization came with different weapon.  it only make sense to allow all weapon on all specialization.  

 

p.s. if you have any example of game breaking weapon, please kindly provide one

[voltaicbore.8012]

17 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

please explain what make it "game-breaking"??  able to use rifle on a daredevil break game balance???   please give an example. 

 

Anet separate equipment template and trait template, each elite specialization came with different weapon.  it only make sense to allow all weapon on all specialization.  

 

p.s. if you have any example of game breaking weapon, please kindly provide one

I wouldn't say anything is game breaking per se, but honestly your entire problem is "sometimes I switch specs but don't switch weapons." That's your problem, solved by you remembering to do something quite simple.

I'm not entirely unsympathetic - I also have a thief that switches between 3 builds and only 2 equipment tabs. My power damage set is shared between a daredevil build and deadeye build, so even if I switch both equip and build templates, I still need to manually switch out staff and rifle. However, that's entirely on me, and it's not hard to do. It's also why I kept ascended versions of each of those, so I could swap faster.

Edited September 25, 2021 by voltaicbore.8012

[decease.3215]

2 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I wouldn't say anything is game breaking per se, but honestly your entire problem is "sometimes I switch specs but don't switch weapons." That's your problem, solved by you remembering to do something quite simple.

I'm not entirely unsympathetic - I also have a thief that switches between 3 builds and only 2 equipment tabs. My power damage set is shared between a daredevil build and deadeye build, so even if I switch both equip and build templates, I still need to manually switch out staff and rifle. However, that's entirely on me, and it's not hard to do. It's also why I kept ascended versions of each of those, so I could swap faster.

we are getting the third with EOD, and there will probably be more coming in the future.   

 

Plus more weapon means more combination, wouldn't you want to play daredevil with staff/rifle?

 

p.s. i could stick with one build, but that will dramatically shorten game's life span.  this game isn't exactly known for its rapid update.   more combination = more play time = more player playing   

Edited September 25, 2021 by decease.3215

[voltaicbore.8012]

5 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

we are getting the third with EOD, and there will probably be more coming in the future.   

I said I play with three builds, not three elite specs. I have one power daredevil build, 1 power deadeye build, and 1 condition deadeye build.

6 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

Plus more weapon means more combination, wouldn't you want to play daredevil with staff/rifle?

No. Taking daredevil means you lose access to the malice resource, which is what makes rifle deadly. Do you... not realize how malice works?

 

7 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

p.s. i could stick with one build, but that will dramatically shorten game's life span.  this game isn't exactly known for its rapid update.   more combination = more play time = more player playing   

Nobody is suggesting that you stick with one build. Like I said, I use 3 on my thief, and 2 of them use an overlapping gear set, so I understand the issue you have. However, the solution is easy: remember to switch rifle with staff. If you can remember to switch builds, you can remember to switch that specific weapon slot. It's much more logical than asking for weapons to be useable on specs that can't even support that weapon.

[Omega.6801]

No.

[kharmin.7683]

9 hours ago, decease.3215 said:

please explain what make it "game-breaking"??  able to use rifle on a daredevil break game balance???   please give an example. 

 

Anet separate equipment template and trait template, each elite specialization came with different weapon.  it only make sense to allow all weapon on all specialization.  

 

p.s. if you have any example of game breaking weapon, please kindly provide one

I said "perhaps game-breaking". 

[decease.3215]

12 hours ago, voltaicbore.8012 said:

I said I play with three builds, not three elite specs. I have one power daredevil build, 1 power deadeye build, and 1 condition deadeye build.

No. Taking daredevil means you lose access to the malice resource, which is what makes rifle deadly. Do you... not realize how malice works?

 

Nobody is suggesting that you stick with one build. Like I said, I use 3 on my thief, and 2 of them use an overlapping gear set, so I understand the issue you have. However, the solution is easy: remember to switch rifle with staff. If you can remember to switch builds, you can remember to switch that specific weapon slot. It's much more logical than asking for weapons to be useable on specs that can't even support that weapon.

 

1)well. with next update you will have at least one more build.. perhaps several.   i know i will have 3+ revenant build.  support and dps together ignite many sparks..  thinking  about dps, support, a bit of both.. maybe a frog jump jump build too.. which grant unlimited jumping(dodge)

 

2)yet, you don't need malice to use rifle.   it only enhancement rifle ability.  malice have nothing to do with weapon, it work with dagger, pistol and everything else.  it is not a rifle specific resource.   

 

3)problem is.. when you are running with a large group. it is hard to get everyone to stay and wait.   sometime people charge in too fast, before i finish change both gear and trait.    so rather then having one set of completely useless weapon, i  want these weapon at least to be functional, is that too much to ask??

 

p.s. just saying.  for all elite there is an extra trait called Minor Proficiency, basically allow player to equip these weapons.   i think it only make sense i could use them as well.

[Sobx.1758]

32 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

 

1)well. with next update you will have at least one more build.. perhaps several.   i know i will have 3+ revenant build.  support and dps together ignite many sparks..  thinking  about dps, support, a bit of both.. maybe a frog jump jump build too.. which grant unlimited jumping(dodge)

 

2)yet, you don't need malice to use rifle.   it only enhancement rifle ability.  malice have nothing to do with weapon, it work with dagger, pistol and everything else.  it is not a rifle specific resource.   

 

3)problem is.. when you are running with a large group. it is hard to get everyone to stay and wait.   sometime people charge in too fast, before i finish change both gear and trait.    so rather then having one set of completely useless weapon, i  want these weapon at least to be functional, is that too much to ask??

 

p.s. just saying.  for all elite there is an extra trait called Minor Proficiency, basically allow player to equip these weapons.   i think it only make sense i could use them as well.

The solution to your whole problem is focusing more on not forgetting about changing the equipment. It shouldn't be that hard considering it's relevant in the situations where you're already changing your build. So just make the habit of changing the build AND items and you'll be fine just like pretty much anyone else is. How is this even considered to be a problem that somehow needs to be fixed with patches influencing balancing of the classes? It's not, just remember to change your gear, that's all there is to it.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[decease.3215]

1 hour ago, Sobx.1758 said:

The solution to your whole problem is focusing more on not forgetting about changing the equipment. It shouldn't be that hard considering it's relevant in the situations where you're already changing your build. So just make the habit of changing the build AND items and you'll be fine just like pretty much anyone else is. How is this even considered to be a problem that somehow needs to be fixed with patches influencing balancing of the classes? It's not, just remember to change your gear, that's all there is to it.

 

if weapon and trait are bound together, they should some how fuse these template together.  if not, we should be able to use whatever weapon we unlock...

[Sobx.1758]

24 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

if weapon and trait are bound together, they should some how fuse these template together.  if not, we should be able to use whatever weapon we unlock...

Nah, templates shouldn't be bound together -for example you can use same/similar gear template with multiple builds, while swapping single weapon or 2 in order for it to work like you want it to work. If you want them to be "somehow fused", make sure to use keybinds and bind them to the same key with different modifiers. Which means for example binding gear template to "ctrl+p" with relevant build template bound to "alt+p" (or "shift+ctrl+p" if you want to keep the finger on ctrl key). You can also right click on weapon swap button and then pick a build +right click on weapon swap again and pick relevant gear template. Just be sure you have them set respectively to 1st/2nd/3rd slots to match single build and then you know you have to swap both.

There are multiple ways to easly help you remember and conveniently swap builds/gear templates. If that's your problem, you can already solve it. Unlocking weapons between the especs have nothing to do with it and doesn't solve anything about you forgetting to swap tempaltes.

Edited September 25, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[decease.3215]

9 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

Nah, templates shouldn't be bound together -for example you can use same/similar gear template with multiple builds, while swapping single weapon or 2 in order for it to work like you want it to work. If you want them to be "somehow fused", make sure to use keybinds and bind them to the same key with different modifiers. Which means for example binding gear template to "ctrl+p" with relevant build template bound to "alt+p" (or "shift+ctrl+p" if you want to keep the finger on ctrl key). You can also right click on weapon swap button and then pick a build +right click on weapon swap again and pick relevant gear template. Just be sure you have them set respectively to 1st/2nd/3rd slots to match single build and then you know you have to swap both.

There are multiple ways to easly help you remember and conveniently swap builds/gear templates. If that's your problem, you can already solve it. Unlocking weapons between the especs have nothing to do with it and doesn't solve anything about you forgetting to swap tempaltes.

wait.. we can hotkey gear template?? cool didn't know that

[Sobx.1758]

3 minutes ago, decease.3215 said:

wait.. we can hotkey gear template?? cool didn't know that

f11 -> control options tab -> scroll down 😅

Edited September 25, 2021 by Sobx.1758

[decease.3215]

11 minutes ago, Sobx.1758 said:

f11 -> control options tab -> scroll down 😅

awesome, thank you 😃