Resistance boon change

[Faux Play.6104]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:I think retaliation should work with condi. Each stack is similar to a hit. That way if someone spams 10 stacks of burn on the other player and they have retaliation it is similar to a pp thief spamming reload into it.

I think retaliation should be removed from the game. You should never be punished (sometimes incredibly severely, depending on the rate of your attack) for damaging your opponent. Confusion is an exception, considering every profession has access to condition clears. Very few professions, and even fewer builds can reliably and continuously remove boons.

Should all reflects be removed as well? Those can't be stripped by anyone.

To me things like retaliation punish players that blindly spam attacks and are good for the game provided they have a short uptime and are actively applied. There is quite a bit of aoe condi spam in PvP/WvW and this would help with that while still keeping condi specs viable in high end PvE.

[otto.5684]

@Faux Play.6104 said:

@Turk.5460 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:I think retaliation should work with condi. Each stack is similar to a hit. That way if someone spams 10 stacks of burn on the other player and they have retaliation it is similar to a pp thief spamming reload into it.

I think retaliation should be removed from the game. You should never be punished (sometimes incredibly severely, depending on the rate of your attack) for damaging your opponent. Confusion is an exception, considering every profession has access to condition clears. Very few professions, and even fewer builds can reliably and continuously remove boons.

Should all reflects be removed as well? Those can't be stripped by anyone.

To me things like retaliation punish players that blindly spam attacks and are good for the game provided they have a short uptime and are actively applied. There is quite a bit of aoe condi spam in PvP/WvW and this would help with that while still keeping condi specs viable in high end PvE.

Like guardian maintaining 100% uptime on retaliation punishing you on every attack. To be fair it does not deal a lot of damage, but is fairly strong against things like unload and warrior GS 2.

[messiah.1908]

i think like otto resistance should be deleted.

i think protection should give you 33% reduce of condi dmg as well. each class which can proc resistance will proc protection aswell and have maybe 1 skill which cleanse to compancate.than to cover the rest of the dmg, anet can reduce the amount of condi pressure combo skills or give trait which reduce condition dmg more (like renegade)

also i think retaliation should proc dmg from condition ticking and also increase the dmg modifier of it. from 300 to 600.

i do think the idea behind renegade is good which can reduce the dmg for few seconds as it enable you to do pressure moves on the enemy but the main problem renegade is lacking conditions removal.

i did some testing with burning guard while i use rotgd and hammers and it work nicely but the main problem is the massive conditions stacks and burst ppl can do to you.

[OriOri.8724]

@MithranArkanere.8957 said:Resistance does too many things. Because of that, it is given scarcely and it's usually too short to do much with it. Spam it, it works too well, do not spam it, it doesn't last enough and doesn't do much. So it is in a weird place.

Rather than removing functionalities from it, why not splitting those functionalities into other boons?

• Resistance : Prevents or reduces damage from conditions.
• Freedom: Prevents the movement component of conditions and control effects. They would still have their other effects, but not the part that alters movement. Under this effect, launch, sink, float, knockback, knockdown, fear, taunt, push, pull and stun would behave like Daze and only disable skills, but not movement. Chilled would still affect skill recharge, but not movement. Crippled and invulnerability would do nothing.
• Safeguard: Prevents the remaining condition effects that deal no damage and do not disable or affect movement: Poison healing reduction, chilled skill recharge, confusion damage on skill, torment damage on movement, weakness endurance regen and glancing, slow activation speed decrease, blindness attack missing.

By having resistance split into these 3 new boons, resistance can be provided more often for longer durations and more sources (still not too much), and we get other interesting tools to improve existing skills and create new ones.

Resistance does do too many things, but adding 2 new boons to the game will only complicate this mess further and it won't be a good solution.

[musu.9205]

make resistance a stackable boon . 15 % condition dmg reduce , 5 stack max . and nerf condition application . rebalance traits and skills which apply resistance including those flat condi dmg reduce trait.

split condition into to two types , dmg condition and utility condition . condition removal should balance around two types (some traits already do this but condition removal skills should be rebalanced too ). some skills could remain same so cover condition is still a thing but it would be easier to balance between single dmg condi build(guard ,ele ) and multi types condi build (scourge)also spread out new form of resistance to more class . it will be more like protection .

the goal is to make certain build strong against dmg condition while you can still use utility condition to weaken it .also limited the potential condition removal against condition build so we won't fall into either support too strong ,condi build cant kill stuff or condi build burst everyone else .and ofc , no dmg immunity anymore .

[Malachi.1836]

Resistance as a whole works well for what it is. For everyone arguing against changes to resistance they are forgetting one major contention for their arguments. Conditions as a whole are far more AOE centric than power damage ever has been and skills that apply them are far more consistent and numerous. If you want to change resistance you would first have to GREATLY tone down condition application and damage. Then and only then would making protection work for both conditions and power damage be a balanced change. As it stands now try playing a WvW/PvP centric build and fighting any group of condition damage builds. Even high cleanse classes can be overwhelmed with reapplication. Add on to this boon strip and conversion and conditions can be reapplied far faster than could ever have been done before.

Arguing against resistance is simply done by those who run condition proper builds and want MUH DAMAGES. If you want to fix resistance by all means argue for changes but dont simply make ones that favor one play style. If you want to change resistance make protection the exact same thing but drop its application time to a second and reduce the amount of skills that throw it around. Cap the total time resistance can be applied, or modify traits applying resistance. but always remember literally all of these ideas here are completely overbalanced for some professions and the final death knell to others.

In total, they are horrible ideas. This game has already made conditions builds far too fire and forget and far to easy of play. Condition builds have become some of the most passive gaming styles ever, no longer do you have to play a condi build well to win against a good foe, you literally facemash your keyboard and out apply even some of the best condi cleansing classes in the game. If literally every build has to choose utilities based one one type of damage there is a serious contention with it. For everyone complaining about spellbreaker or the power creep introduced in PoF the complaints are always boiled down to one topic: passive power and passive play. Spellbreakers strength comes entirely from being able to survive burst through passive play and some of the core warrior traits that were never ridiculously overpowered until the addition of spellbreaker. Same problem there. Nerf what makes some of the spellbreaker too strong and all core warrior looses what survivability it has

[roamzero.9486]

The only class that really benefits from Resistance being a boon (in terms of counterplay) is Necro. Resistance would be much easier to balance if it was an effect like Superspeed. Resistance as a boon either doesn't do much at all, or it's broken as heck because classes like Warrior can perma stack it with some boon duration.

[kKagari.6804]

@roamzero.9486 said:The only class that really benefits from Resistance being a boon (in terms of counterplay) is Necro. Resistance would be much easier to balance if it was an effect like Superspeed. Resistance as a boon either doesn't do much at all, or it's broken as heck because classes like Warrior can perma stack it with some boon duration.

hear bloody hear. Make alacrity a boon counterpart to chill, and make resistance an effect you can't get 100% uptime

[Ludus Rex.1562]

Resistance is clearly an insane mechanic that does way too much against entire character builds. Warriors are thriving because they have bucket loads of this insane form of protection.

What's that? You think that DOOM lies ahead if access to resistance is reduced? You think it's our last bastion of defense versus condition application which is patently absurd? I agree with you. We either need to normalize that amount of resistance available to all classes across the board, so that all classes can defend themselves for reasonable periods of time against a metric ton of conditions, OR a much better approach; we severely dial back resistance for warriors and then take a look at the classes whose condition application simply cannot be combated with even a hefty amount of condition cleansing.

Personally, I always thought that armor/toughness was the defense against direct damage and power builds while cleansing was the defense against conditions. The fact that conditions escalated to the point where resistance became a necessary mechanic at all is kind of a massive failing.

[Hiki.9310]

I enjoy playing condition builds. I'm tired of having to fight against permanent 100% damage immunity.

[Ithilwen.1529]

@Faux Play.6104 said:I think retaliation should work with condi. Each stack is similar to a hit. That way if someone spams 10 stacks of burn on the other player and they have retaliation it is similar to a pp thief spamming reload into it.

This would put Mesmer, Necro and some thieves and rangers out of the game. It would make conditions essentially unusable. Most of the really neat tricks in the game, like Moa, have been nerfed to oblivion or shared out.. many classes now have something equivalent to Continuum Split, ammunition.. The game has been made about as easy for heavy armor classes as it reasonably can be.

There are already many means of dealing with conditions. People need to learn to use them rather than calling for nerfs.

[Dreams.3128]

@Turk.5460 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:I think retaliation should work with condi. Each stack is similar to a hit. That way if someone spams 10 stacks of burn on the other player and they have retaliation it is similar to a pp thief spamming reload into it.

I think retaliation should be removed from the game. You should never be punished (sometimes incredibly severely, depending on the rate of your attack) for damaging your opponent. Confusion is an exception, considering every profession has access to condition clears. Very few professions, and even fewer builds can reliably and continuously remove boons.

Pause, let me refer you to the fact that unless you are running a very /fast/ attacking build (which would probably be thief and ranger) retaliation is next to useless. I have only seen it done like 400 damage tops on someone.