Will Alac Mechanist replace Alacrigade?

[AintGold.5128]

So like in the topic.

 

Honestly I wasn't testing much in beta cuz of lack of time. But I wacthed the Mukluk's latest video and I's curious.

Afaik Alacrigade provides: 

- alacrity - permanent

- half of the might stacks

- protection - dunno if permanent

- assassin's presence - permanent

- some lesser boons  depending which legends he is using

- Stability, projectile hate or condi transfer depending which legend choosed

- huge CC with Staff 5

But he don't need any pet to provide this boons (besides protection if Kalla's skills count as ones, tho not working under water).

Meanwhile Alac Mech can provide:

- alacrity - permanent

- 25 might - permanent

-  vigor - permanent

- fury

- protection

- regeneration

- barrier

- decent, or even good healing

- condi cleanse and some boons, depending with condi cleansed

- some huge barrier

- projectile hate

But most of those requires pet and won't work in some underwater PvE, cuz currently all what pet is doing underwater is showing us his middle finger and shooting some lasers

[lunaeclipse.6843]

It has potential in 5-man content, especially the heal-variant. It really depends on how controllable the AI ends up being really. It wont replace alac rev in 10-man content due to role compression imho.

The biggest thing imo is the flexibility. It can provide all those boons, but it cant bring boonstrip, can't bring stability, only has 1 application of aegis on what-a 40s CD iirc? and as you stated too the CC isn't as high nor does it bring an offensive buff. Its good at what it does, but i think many groups may not take it for its lack of flexibility.

I do hope I'm wrong though. I'm sick of being in alacrity jail.

Edited November 3, 2021 by Ertrak.9506

[Infusion.7149]

Alacrity mechanist would only be a replacement for an alacrity renegade that only presses F4 in 5 man content , since the mech does 4-7K DPS on its own with no boons it could be a large damage loss. That doesn't even count mechanics and instabilities that could put the mech in danger and result in you only having alacrity output from camping mace.

Protection uptime is high on the power version of alacrity renegade ; the condition alacrity renegade does ~66% of its damage from conditions so it does well against exposed breakbars.

Condi mech uses 4 kits right now and if you run alacrity mech that means all the condition stats you'd have on mechanist would be non-existent. From my testing the mech does anywhere from 20-30% of the total damage based off the autoattack of mech alone.

The benefit of running mech is you could have barrier output if you run Mech Core Barrier Engine trait , which is as passive as it gets.
 

[AintGold.5128]

2 hours ago, Ertrak.9506 said:

It has potential in 5-man content, especially the heal-variant. It really depends on how controllable the AI ends up being really. It wont replace alac rev in 10-man content due to role compression imho.

The biggest thing imo is the flexibility. It can provide all those boons, but it cant bring boonstrip, can't bring stability, only has 1 application of aegis on what-a 40s CD iirc? and as you stated too the CC isn't as high nor does it bring an offensive buff. Its good at what it does, but i think many groups may not take it for its lack of flexibility.

I do hope I'm wrong though. I'm sick of being in alacrity jail.

So Alac from Mech is only for 5 people? Good to know, since in description it doesn't mention what's the limit.

[Infusion.7149]

5 minutes ago, AintGold.5128 said:

So Alac from Mech is only for 5 people? Good to know, since in description it doesn't mention what's the limit.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crisis_Zone
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrier_Burst
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrier_Blast
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrier_Signet
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mech_Core:_Barrier_Engine



 

[AintGold.5128]

7 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crisis_Zone
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrier_Burst
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrier_Blast
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Barrier_Signet
https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Mech_Core:_Barrier_Engine



 

So it's possible to do Fractals with him.

 But what about raids? Like 2 Alac-Classes? I didn't started them yet so I'm curious. Maybe 2 Mechs or 1 Mech and 1 Rene.

[Infusion.7149]

34 minutes ago, AintGold.5128 said:

So it's possible to do Fractals with him.

 But what about raids? Like 2 Alac-Classes? I didn't started them yet so I'm curious. Maybe 2 Mechs or 1 Mech and 1 Rene.

Well normally people run double condi RR renegades if they have 2 renegades , each renegade puts out ~37K after torment changes. Before that it was ~33K each which was more balanced such that running one full DPS class ~35K-40K and one alac at ~28-30K would have you ahead.
Seeing how condi mechanist is 40-41K full DPS and the mech does ~4-7K without boons it means condi mechanist itself without mech does around 36K at best (see condi holo) if ran as Mech 1-2-1 Explosives 3-2-2 Firearms 1-2-3. If you run the alacrity trait your mech only gets 25% of your condi and expertise stats. From my logs on double kit condi mech (I am not so insane to run 4 kits) with the mech autoing the golem it was ~4K using full condi traits.

I think it is more likely you run it as a barrier support as mukluk did here so that you can run CQB+ mech alac rather than HB + alac ren

 

Edited November 3, 2021 by Infusion.7149

[Vidit.7108]

It sounds like Mechanist is on par with or better than AlacMirage. You can probably clear fractals without incident if the firebrand does all the stability. There is a lot of utility that a Revenant/Renegade can provide that other classes don't match very well.
So like Mirage, it's very possible to have Mechanist be your alacrity but it's not better than Renegade in that capacity. Stability is a big deal in the 5-person group for fractals. That said I could see some CM groups build around it with firebrand going all in on stability if the dps and fury can be better covered by something else.
I think if the firebrand can fill the boon gaps really perfectly a group might not notice a difference between Alacgade and Mechanist. Depends on how much group-wide protection/fury it has access to.

[AintGold.5128]

19 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Well normally people run double condi RR renegades if they have 2 renegades , each renegade puts out ~37K after torment changes. Before that it was ~33K each which was more balanced such that running one full DPS class ~35K-40K and one alac at ~28-30K would have you ahead.
Seeing how condi mechanist is 40-41K full DPS and the mech does ~4-7K without boons it means condi mechanist itself without mech does around 36K at best (see condi holo) if ran as Mech 1-2-1 Explosives 3-2-2 Firearms 1-2-3. If you run the alacrity trait your mech only gets 25% of your condi and expertise stats. From my logs on double kit condi mech (I am not so insane to run 4 kits) with the mech autoing the golem it was ~4K using full condi traits.

I think it is more likely you run it as a barrier support as mukluk did here so that you can run CQB+ mech alac rather than HB + alac ren

 

So there's a chance for Renes to take a break from being Alacrigade and focusing mostly on Condi dmg.

 

17 hours ago, Vidit.7108 said:

I think if the firebrand can fill the boon gaps really perfectly a group might not notice a difference between Alacgade and Mechanist. Depends on how much group-wide protection/fury it has access to.

By this you meant what? Lack of specific boons or lack of boons uptime?

If you mean boons uptime, then maybe Herald will be a thing then too? I mean he can easily increase the boon cap above 100%, have a nice source of Stab and nice source of Fury, with some Might, Swiftness and Protection.

Alac Mech can provide projectile hate, so Herald can focus on Jallis and Glint Stances.

[Nephalem.8921]

4 hours ago, AintGold.5128 said:

So there's a chance for Renes to take a break from being Alacrigade and focusing mostly on Condi dmg.

 

By this you meant what? Lack of specific boons or lack of boons uptime?

If you mean boons uptime, then maybe Herald will be a thing then too? I mean he can easily increase the boon cap above 100%, have a nice source of Stab and nice source of Fury, with some Might, Swiftness and Protection.

Alac Mech can provide projectile hate, so Herald can focus on Jallis and Glint Stances.

Herald does no dps. wont be a thing unless you want to replace a druid with a slb and run without a healer. raids only.

The alac happens around the golem which is a big issue. cant position it properly and wanders off. in theory it works but you trade ren utility for a clunky pet that is 100% unusable in some fractals. the pet is more handycap than blessing in non rp content.

[Vidit.7108]

3 hours ago, AintGold.5128 said:

By this you meant what? Lack of specific boons or lack of boons uptime?

In fractals it's about the boon uptime, if a firebrand takes more stability it might replace either one of two utilities, or it's elite which provides fury. Replacing Feel My Wrath (the elite) takes out 20 seconds of fury, a firebrand and make up for it by using symbol of vengeance more, or running a different build that adds fury to the heal skill. A Mirage can add back in enough fury of it's own to the party so it's not an issue. The more Symbol of Vengeance needs to be used the less might is going out but there are a lot of ways to make up group might even in a 5 person party.

The firebrand has a couple skills that help the alacgade provide protection,  most notably 8 seconds from Shield of Judgement. If the Firebrand wants to do a lot more protection that's slotting in another utility. The more boons the firebrand is doing on it's own the more mistakes there can be and the things you normally expect the firebrand to do (cleanses, might upkeep) are either harder or not sustaining 100% of the time anymore. Without Feel My Wrath a mistake with lining up Mantra of Potence means someone doesn't have quickness anymore.

Depending on if the Mechanist can provide an amount of protection and fury (or might/regen instead) that still makes it possible for these boons to stay up the whole fight determines how easy it is to just replace Alacgade. The firebrand can end up changing a lot about how it plays in response.

[Jthug.9506]

My raids have long since switched to staff mirage in most encounters. We also use heal herald as a solo healer as often as possible. I would love to use dual rr condi rens but it’s difficult to get people on board.