Druid's Lingering Light sucks, but it's a perfect opportunity

[FalsePromises.6398]

I want to start off with that I used to be a druid main, but after the series of healing nerfs (largely at fault of competitive modes pre-split) I quit maining and playing druid when not forced into druid jail. I may not be perfectly up to date on druid, but I do still keep an eye on it when patch notes come around (which very sparingly mention druid anyway).
That said, I think there's a possibility for a largely underused and arguably underperforming grandmaster in druid to actually become the breath of fresh air druid could definitely use, since its mostly beaten into a shape it can't really break out of otherwise. Right now, druid feels rather subpar for non-structured group content as a healer: you have somewhat weak heals (especially compared to other classes), and it's mostly limited to your celestial avatar which has small radii skills you often need to chase or snipe people with (if they're not being good puppies teammates and staying on a tight leash when you turn blue). Lingering light, the trait that is implied to be the dedicated healing grandmaster as opposed to the buffs or debilitation offered by other grandmasters, doesn't have enough unique kick to it despite its whopping 50% healing bonus mod: it winds up feeling like shooting yourself in the foot over giving up the unique bonuses from the other grandmasters just for bigger healing numbers and nothing more. The bonus blind and heal on hitting an enemy, granted after entering celestial avatar, your healing form with only one skill that can actually hit enemies is rather nonsensical, in my opinion. I think there could be a better and more sensible use for this trait.

Keep the healing mod. Remove the blind/heal on hit buff. Make this trait increase the radius of your celestial avatar 1, 2, and 4 skills by 60.

With a radius increase AND a huge healing modifier on your celestial avatar, this transforms you into a FAR more potent and widely applicable healer. Your Cosmic Ray increases from 120 radius to 180 radius, making it just that tad bit easier to land and cover multiple allies with. Your Seed of Life increases from 180 radius to 240 radius, making it far easier for allies stand in for benefits and to cover more ground with for blinding enemies. You COULD also make this increase the radius of the Lesser Seed of Life you get after casting a glyph (from the Verdant Etching trait), giving glyphs just a little bit more coverage too. Your Rejuvenating Tides increases from 240 radius to 300 radius, covering a much larger area with its powerful healing, and resulting in less chasing people with it and less having to be right in the fire to heal people with it. All in all, you no longer need to keep your allies on such a tight leash like how usually only organized teams are capable of. 

My angle with this idea is to increase the quality of life and effectiveness of druid as a healer outside of structured 10 man PvE content and return some of the "healer" identity that has been lost through the years. 

Keep in mind this is buffing a largely underused (if at all) trait, so it won't be buffing druid's already-strong utility/boon/roaming capabilities. 

[FalsePromises.6398]

Keep in mind, I'm referring to content that ISN'T structured 10 man PvE when I say this: I know you can definitely reap lots of benefit from Lingering Light when you have 9 smart allies that hug you when you turn blue, but that's not always the case, especially outside of organized instances, and a druid shouldn't need to rely so heavily on ally cooperation just to have its heals land. 

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

I always thought it was a trait designed around being an off-healer. Not specced into healing power at all, you run DPS and or Utility for the group, then Lingering Light so that your heals have a reasonable impact. 

I think it's good as that, if you combine a few off-healers, then healing power gear is not needed.

But yeah, any buff to cele avatar is going to be good.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582

[Dadnir.5038]

I'm not sure it will make the trait more popular but, in general, I think it's a good idea.

Edited November 17, 2021 by Dadnir.5038

[FalsePromises.6398]

9 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

I always thought it was a trait designed around being an off-healer. Not specced into healing power at all, you run DPS and or Utility for the group, then Lingering Light so that your heals have a reasonable impact. 

I think it's good as that, if you combine a few off-healers, then healing power gear is not needed.

But yeah, any buff to cele avatar is going to be good.

Druid used to be marketed as THE healer, the one that could get in there and "pull your bacon out of the fire". It used to do that, but anet slowly kept nerfing its healing on the celestial avatar form. You used to be a downpour of healing to put out fires (even without lingering light), now you're like a squirt gun that often can't even outpace the fires any more. To put it simply, I want at least a choice to have that capability back: to become a powerful and impactful healer in celestial avatar, make it the reaper shroud of healing like it used to be if you so choose in your traits. You're still trading might or immobilization for this, but you'll be herding cats into your circles less and you'll be covering more targets easily with your healing. 

[InsaneQR.7412]

Honestly i would love a proper rework of druid overall that takes a look at the class mechanic and all skills and traits.

 

Especially for the GM i thought it would be a great addition if each GM augmehtd the CAF in playstyle and visuals.

So a sun themed Form for the buff trait that focusses more on damage and condi damage. Or group endgame, a moon themed Form (basically as we have it now) that focusses on support and maybe some stealth for WvW and an earth themed form that focusses on CC, roots and condi damage for sPvP or open world.

 

In addition if they would rework the pets and gave them some scaling depending on archetype (so Ferocious pets scale more with the rangers power and ferocity than for example a supportive pet would) they could give the druid pets different archetypes than vanilla. Which in term could scale mainly on defensive stats but would provide other bonusses when you are in CAF like having more mobility or copying your glyph effects etc etc.

 

 

[Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582]

With the ability to target allies now coded in through Specter, Druid would benefit from that greatly. Since you can hotkey Nearest, Next and Previous Ally, it would make healing with staff a lot better and they could add some additional benefits to targeting one, rather than an enemy. 

[FalsePromises.6398]

21 hours ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

Honestly i would love a proper rework of druid overall that takes a look at the class mechanic and all skills and traits.

 

Especially for the GM i thought it would be a great addition if each GM augmehtd the CAF in playstyle and visuals.

So a sun themed Form for the buff trait that focusses more on damage and condi damage. Or group endgame, a moon themed Form (basically as we have it now) that focusses on support and maybe some stealth for WvW and an earth themed form that focusses on CC, roots and condi damage for sPvP or open world.

 

In addition if they would rework the pets and gave them some scaling depending on archetype (so Ferocious pets scale more with the rangers power and ferocity than for example a supportive pet would) they could give the druid pets different archetypes than vanilla. Which in term could scale mainly on defensive stats but would provide other bonusses when you are in CAF like having more mobility or copying your glyph effects etc etc.

 

 

I don't think I'd be on board with a druid overhaul, in my opinion it seems to play very sensibly and has a unique and fun taste as a healer, it just deserves some better healing output when you want to push for it traitwise. I'm not of the belief that it needs to have its builds shoved through three "choose to specialize in style 1, style 2, or style 3" type grandmasters and/or entire row dedications like some of the newer specs do: that just seems like boring, corny design that holds your hand through your entire process. That said though, I wouldn't be opposed to glyphs also having effects centered on pet as well, so you can cover more ground with them and/or not have to be immediately close to your enemies to hit with their effects, but I wouldn't push for that. I really just think druid needs a little more kick as a healer like it used to have.

Aside from my original post and what I said about glyphs just now, I don't think there's anything else I'd push for other than maybe reinvigorating some of the poorly aged traits like Primal Echoes or Natural Stride. Primal Echoes feels like a troll pick with no reliable use, and Natural Stride winds up being a poorly-aged movement speed buff that has basically no use to ranger since they have numerous independent sources of swiftness AND Signet of the Hunt already.

I think a good way to repurpose Primal Echoes would be to make it tie the daze onto Ancestral Grace itself: the current daze-swapping-to-staff is awkward, clunky, and unreliable, and thus not as attractive of a pick as Druidic Clarity or Cultivated Synergy. It'd also make staff a more useful immediate CC weapon and make the trait a decent optional pick for when your team is slacking on breakbars. Natural Stride could instead be something for competitive to grant more reliable regeneration due to the shout trait nerf (or better regeneration uptime if you're not running beastmastery or water spirit in open world), maybe something like applying movement impeding conditions grants nearby allies regeneration. 

16 hours ago, Heimskarl Ashfiend.9582 said:

With the ability to target allies now coded in through Specter, Druid would benefit from that greatly. Since you can hotkey Nearest, Next and Previous Ally, it would make healing with staff a lot better and they could add some additional benefits to targeting one, rather than an enemy. 

I pray anet doesn't make ally targeting a long term or game-wide mechanic. I don't wanna have to make 3-5 new hotkeys just to play druid competently. I'm okay with just accepting I won't like Specter. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by FalsePromises.6398

[InsaneQR.7412]

@FalsePromises.6398

 

Tbh i think diversifying CAF coudl diversify playstyle and improve the druid gameplay across the game. I wouldnt cut on the support role on general but give itlmore flexibility.

 

Atm i use CAF for dipping in and press 4 tomheal and maybe 3 for some CC. I only use 5 when i need more breakbar damage and i never use 1 or 2. 

 

CAF is lackluster on use and really only comes into play when you want to play THE healer. Which in itself is not a flexible role through the game modes. For zergs FB is strictly better, for Raids druid is ok, especiyally with all the buffs, for PvP you are just a stalling trolluwith no actual nuance or tradeoff except that the pet hits like a wet noodle.

 

Diverisfying CAF and how the pet scales could give druid a proper tradeoff but also more flexibility. I dont even need the rest of tge traitline to be adjusted accordingly. 

 

I like your suggestion for primal eachoes but mine was always: cast lesser sognet of equality when swapping weapons. (No stunbreak).

Staff trait should get natural mender healing buff and natural stride should be the minor trait instead of natural mender while the staff trait is placed in its stead.

[aymnad.9023]

This is a simple yet effective idea. I like it but I do not think it will solve what I consider druid biggest issue : being the most gated and static  (you do address it a bit with larger aoe) support.

Druid still lacks support outside of CA. Which means you need :

• full energy
• long cd
• NO DOWNSTATE because you lose everything which makes heal less, become more vulnerable to another downstate, heal less, become more vulnerable to another downstate
• delay and hard to land heals / dispels.

I really like some of the things they tried. Like giving cd reduction on staff 3 with allies, the way glyph of the stars works but I wish they pushed it further. 

Edited November 19, 2021 by aymnad.9023

[FalsePromises.6398]

9 hours ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

@FalsePromises.6398

 

Tbh i think diversifying CAF coudl diversify playstyle and improve the druid gameplay across the game. I wouldnt cut on the support role on general but give itlmore flexibility.

 

Atm i use CAF for dipping in and press 4 tomheal and maybe 3 for some CC. I only use 5 when i need more breakbar damage and i never use 1 or 2. 

 

CAF is lackluster on use and really only comes into play when you want to play THE healer. Which in itself is not a flexible role through the game modes. For zergs FB is strictly better, for Raids druid is ok, especiyally with all the buffs, for PvP you are just a stalling trolluwith no actual nuance or tradeoff except that the pet hits like a wet noodle.

 

Diverisfying CAF and how the pet scales could give druid a proper tradeoff but also more flexibility. I dont even need the rest of tge traitline to be adjusted accordingly. 

 

I like your suggestion for primal eachoes but mine was always: cast lesser sognet of equality when swapping weapons. (No stunbreak).

Staff trait should get natural mender healing buff and natural stride should be the minor trait instead of natural mender while the staff trait is placed in its stead.

Druid seems plenty diverse enough in my opinion, its other uses are just overshadowed by other specs. Power oriented daze/root druids used to be gnarly but people opt more for cheese burst soulbeasts instead since that's how the meta has turned. Condi druids are still a thing down in WvW last I heard (trapper rune druids are hellishly unkillable and still have gross damage). 

As for "only using a few skills" in your CA form, I think you're just underutilizing your celestial avatar. As for what I personally do with Celestial Avatar, it ranges but I use ALL skills when I'm doing my job, situationally. My general mightstacking combo with Grace of the Land is enter-4-5-3-4-exit form. If I want more cleanses with that I can easily intersperse 2's between every single skill since it's such a fast cast, with bonus points for landing blast combos in those with CA 3 or staff 3 after exiting form. If my team is scattered and I need wider range ticks to cover their might (or I just wanna squeeze out some spare damage or debilitating condis when my team doesn't need healing), I use 5-4-3-5 since the 5 skill has a wider radius than the 4 skill for granting might. If I want stronger burst healing as opposed to numerous ticks for might generation, I can do 3-4-3 on entry and then spam 1 more for healing, even if it's not super strong. The Celestial Avatar skillset is definitely not lacking diversity or multiple useful skills, you're just not using it to its fullest extent. (Side note, every combo/sequence I'm referring to here is with using quickdraw). 

As for "lesser signet of equality on weapon swap", one reason I dislike the notion of attaching more effects to weapon swap is that you already have two unique "swap" triggers with your normal weapon swap and your Celestial Avatar entry/exit. You literally have to micromanage and watch your swap cooldowns if you want to make sure you're getting your swap-benefits on the right weapon set when using quickdraw. That doesn't need more complexity, not to mention you're often not trying to save weapon swap for vital moments like your implied change would want you to do. Furthermore, if you add an area daze on just ANY weapon swap after removing it from staff specifically, you're hellishly buffing the troll dual-longbow rangers who use skirmishing traits for quickdraw-powered Point Blank Shot spam or Barrage spam, which is horrid enough. If you keep it strictly to staff, then you're not changing anything at all. That aside, moving natural mender to a choice trait in the same column as another healing-oriented trait is no good: don't make people choose between Cultivated Synergy or Natural Mender. 

 

I wouldn't disagree with giving pet archetype effects, but it sounds dangerous and doesn't seem necessary. A big reason why they nerfed pets in druid was because people were abusing them in competitive by playing bunker and making the pet deal stupidly high damage, so they reduced all their stats by 20%. Have you ever been swissed by a coked up bristleback using F2 while you're stuck in druid roots, unable to dodge? 

As for Celestial Avatar being lackluster and "really only comes into play when you want to play THE healer"... that's kind of the point. However, I disagree with it being useless otherwise. The 2, 3, and 5 skills present notable offensive utility skills with blinds, dazes, and area slows/roots without needing to run entangle. I used to love running harrier druid for open world soloing, it was actually really fun and effective with axe/warhorn and sword/axe, since you could debilitate enemies in close range and have your strong heal form a crowd control transform or a fallback healing form.

 

Druid already has a lot of complexity and a solid design, it just deserves a little more kick or a little more QoL if you choose to trait for it, which is what I'm going for when I propose my changes. 

[InsaneQR.7412]

@FalsePromises.6398

 

I am not underutilizing the CA skilsl when i dont se it. Especially when i am solo roaming or play oPvE. Prtty much halve of your argument assumes that you will play in a group. Thats basically my gripes with current druid deisgn. CAF feels really wasted when you are running around solo apart from rehealing. Specially the AA is somthing never use when i am running arround solo or roaming. Its just a waste of a skill. CAF feels generally bad because you only dip in for CC and heal and then what? Then you go back out after about 6s and half of your druid juice is wasted. Thats why I advocate for diversifying the CAF. Also yes i know druid is supposed to be a healer, but it is also a part of a game that is not designed for just being the healer. Also it provides the theme of the powerful plant nature caster. And not being able to dish out some damage while in your awakenend state feels like a missed opportunity.

 

It could also be: Primal echos: when you activate a glyph you also activate it at your pets location. When you swap pets you activate lesser [insert any suitable glyph].

(This is of course just some spitballing). Glyph of alignment could be cool tbh, that would also give condi builds something to play with.

 

I think you misunderstood my placement for the staff trait. I would place the staff trait at the position of natural stride, i would merge it with natural mender, remove the stun effect on swap to staff. Natural stride would then be the new minor insteda of natural stride.

 

My point for giving druid pet different archetypes and letting archetypes scale from specific ranger stats is to give rangers finally good pets but also avoiding powerful pets while you are a tanky AF druid. 

 

For example:

Any pet will scale with your stats and the archetype will determine which stats will receive additional scaling, similar to the mechanist traits.

 

Ferocious Pet: Your pet is ferocious it profits from your proficiency in powerful attacks and critical hits. Your pet gains bonus scaling for power and ferocity.

Celestial Ferocious Pet: Your ferocious pets is attuned to the powerful celestial magic of nature. When your pet activates a beast skill it provides a power and ferocity bonus to other allies for a short duration.

 

So a "celestial archetype" would buff your allies for example while your normal pet (so no druid) would gain more stats instead.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19, 2021 by InsaneQR.7412

[FalsePromises.6398]

6 minutes ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

@FalsePromises.6398

 

I am not underutilizing the CA skilsl when i dont se it. Especially when i am solo roaming or play oPvE. Prtty much halve of your argument assumes that you will play in a group. Thats basically my gripes with current druid deisgn. CAF feels really wasted when you are running around solo apart from rehealing. Specially the AA is somthing nevr use when i am running arround solo or roaming. Its just a waste of a skill. CAF feels generally bad because you only dip in for CC and heal and then what? Then you go back out after about 6s and half of your druid juice is wasted. Thats why I advocate for diversifying the CAF. 

 

It could also be: Primal echos: when you activate a glyph you also activate it at your pets location. When you swap pets you activate lesser [insert any suitable glyph].

(This is of course just some spitballing). Glyph of alignment could be cool tbh, that would also give condi builds something to play with.

 

I think you misunderstood my placement for the staff trait. I would place the staff trait at the position of natural stride, i would merge it with natural mender, remove the stun effect on swap to staff. Natural stride would then be the new minor insteda of natural stride.

 

My point for giving druid pet different archetypes and letting archetypes scale from specific ranger stats is to give rangers finally good pets but also avoiding powerful pets while you are a tanky AF druid. 

 

For example:

Any pet will scale with your stats and the archetype will determine which stats will receive additional scaling, similar to the mechanist traits.

 

Ferocious Pet: Your pet is ferocious it profits from your proficiency in powerful attacks and critical hits. Your pet gains bonus scaling for power and ferocity.

Celestial Ferocious Pet: Your ferocious pets is attuned to the powerful celestial magic of nature. When your pet activates a beast skill it provides a power and ferocity bonus to other allies for a short duration.

 

So a "celestial archetype" would buff your allies for example while your normal pet (so no druid) would gain more stats instead.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope I don't sound rude in saying this, but if CA feels wasted when playing solo or you only use it for rehealing, you're doing it wrong and ARE underutilizing it. Yes, you're not gonna stick in that form for long, and you're most likely not gonna use the 1 skill when solo, but it's by no means weak solo. Do me a solid and try running Grace of the Land when you're roaming PvE, you'll find the might does you WONDERS. Run harrier stats with axe/warhorn and sword/axe and get jiggy with some cleave damage and area pressure. The 3 and 5 are good for area disruption/debilitation against crowds of enemies, and the 2 is good for progressive cleanses, blinds, light field combos (for more area cleanse blasts or light aura leaps (keep in mind light aura can reduce incoming condition damage by like 40% with passive resolution gains and its innate 10% incoming condi damage reduction combined)), etc... I used to be in your exact shoes when I mained druid and my celestial avatar never felt weak or useless. If you're running low on your druid fluid, you're not applying regen on you and your pet enough.

 

If you want a dps transform, unfortunately druid simply isn't for that. That's like asking for berserker to get an adrenal attack in primal rage that heals targeted allies: it's just not their territory. I think your issue with druid is that you want something like an "I want to be in this mode as much as possible" form with cracked out damage like necromancer shrouds are, or a sock 'em bop 'em bing bang boom dps transform like holosmith, but druid isn't meant for either of those. Healing, CC, debilitation, and support in general are its identity, and the debilitation and CC aspects are very synergetic with its offensive options... so druid doesn't seem lacking at all design-wise if you're using it to its fullest and synergizing it properly. 
 

As for your Primal Echoes trait idea, even if you move it to Natural Stride's place, you're now making it compete with Verdant Etching (which is another healing trait) which pushes glyphs out of favor for the Natural Mender healing modifiers. You're just best off leaving Natural Mender as-is. Even if you look at your idea for Primal Echoes doubling glyph effects, you're now making two traits that directly affect glyphs (which is in general a no-no), and if you put it in place of Natural Stride, you're making them compete with each other as well (which is even more of a no-no). 

As for the pet thing... I'll have to say hard no on that one. Last thing this game needs is more team damage modifiers tacked onto druid (or ranger in general). Druid is already one of the biggest structured PvE 10 man meta supports because of the sheer volume of unique buffs it can share like spotter and spirits, which are both on top of 10 man might. Even then, druid has a lot of other utility uses. It doesn't need an expansion of capabilities. Have you seen what druids are capable of in raids? At the risk of sounding rude, I might recommend reading up on some raid guides on druid so you have a little more awareness of druid's peak performance capabilities and how adaptable it can be. 

[InsaneQR.7412]

@FalsePromises.6398

 

 

1. Yea thats my main point. Druid is the only spec taht really feels lackluster when solo, and it shouldnt. And it doesnt have too.

Thats why i suggest more versatility or atlast some offensiveness on CAF. It doesnt have to be big DPS but just giving us the option to exchange some healing for damage could do wonders IMO.

 

2.  Ancient seeds is probably the better trait for solo and you just slap a might onmcrit sigil in instead. I am otherwise pretty aware of most oPvE buidls for druid. I played exclusively druid between HoT and PoF and played it sometimes during LS4 too.

 

3. Verdant etching is taken not for the healing. Its used for the cleanse and the glyph CD reduction. Its just the only trait on the middle section that provides healing, but it isnt necessarily a healing trait.

 

4. The goal is not to make CAF a DPS form, but just fot entirely healing. Just healing just doesnt cut it to make it feel good in all game modes.

 

5.  Two Traits affecting the same skill type is totally doable and fine. I dont know why this should be a no go, especially because only one affects the cooldown. It woudnt be the first time either. Ranger has some examples where two traits interact with the same skill type. Like Zephyr Speed, Child of earth and Wilderness knowledge just to mention a few. WK augments the skill while the other traits cast them. 

 

6. It could also just be a buff for the ranger alone. As i said above i am just making suggestions because the current druid tradeoff is abhorrent, especially because the current state of the pets is horrible.

 

7. Lastly, i am not concerned for Raids. Druid is fine in raids. Druid is not fine in the rest of the game (which i noteworthily the bigger part than raids) and this mainly because both class mechanics are lackluster. The pet is a hot mess that needs fixing for years and CAF provides CC and healing which is nice, but its gated behind a CD and energy that is wasted for about 5s of your rotation, which really feels bad to use. Thus i suggested at the start giving us more variety, especially for the CAF AA which is barely used regularly. 

 

8. I think this discussion will find an end at this point and we will run in circles, so i wish ya a good one. Cheers.

 

 

 

 

[FalsePromises.6398]

18 minutes ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

@FalsePromises.6398

 

 

1. Yea thats my main point. Druid is the only spec taht really feels lackluster when solo, and it shouldnt. And it doesnt have too.

Thats why i suggest more versatility or atlast some offensiveness on CAF. It doesnt have to be big DPS but just giving us the option to exchange some healing for damage could do wonders IMO.

 

2.  Ancient seeds is probably the better trait for solo and you just slap a might onmcrit sigil in instead. I am otherwise pretty aware of most oPvE buidls for druid. I played exclusively druid between HoT and PoF and played it sometimes during LS4 too.

 

3. Verdant etching is taken not for the healing. Its used for the cleanse and the glyph CD reduction. Its just the only trait on the middle section that provides healing, but it isnt necessarily a healing trait.

 

4. The goal is not to make CAF a DPS form, but just fot entirely healing. Just healing just doesnt cut it to make it feel good in all game modes.

 

5.  Two Traits affecting the same skill type is totally doable and fine. I dont know why this should be a no go, especially because only one affects the cooldown. It woudnt be the first time either. Ranger has some examples where two traits interact with the same skill type. Like Zephyr Speed, Child of earth and Wilderness knowledge just to mention a few. WK augments the skill while the other traits cast them. 

 

6. It could also just be a buff for the ranger alone. As i said above i am just making suggestions because the current druid tradeoff is abhorrent, especially because the current state of the pets is horrible.

 

7. Lastly, i am not concerned for Raids. Druid is fine in raids. Druid is not fine in the rest of the game (which i noteworthily the bigger part than raids) and this mainly because both class mechanics are lackluster. The pet is a hot mess that needs fixing for years and CAF provides CC and healing which is nice, but its gated behind a CD and energy that is wasted for about 5s of your rotation, which really feels bad to use. Thus i suggested at the start giving us more variety, especially for the CAF AA which is barely used regularly. 

 

8. I think this discussion will find an end at this point and we will run in circles, so i wish ya a good one. Cheers.

 

 

 

 

I'm going to be honest, you're kinda annoying me at this point. We're not "going in circles", I'm talking straight forward and you're dodging around me and ignoring what I say. I'm providing specific information and you're often not even addressing or rebutting it (and I won't even talk about how many typos you put in your stuff that make me have to guess what you mean). So I'll go down the list.
 

1. I never said druid feels lackluster solo. It doesn't feel that way if you know how to work it. It's very versatile given since you can handle a lot of things with your weapons and CA form, you have freedom with your utilities. I personally run glyphs in open world alongside the quickness utility skill, works very nicely for close range debilitation and sustain/blinds. 
 

2. Ancient seeds in open world is unnecessary if you play druid to its strengths. Don't run zerker druid and expect to be on par with zerker soulbeast. Like I said, run harrier with axe/wh and sword/axe and grace of the land, throw on skirmishing and nature magic or wilderness survival and nature magic if you're squeamish. Perma 25 might, your healing is always good, and you can upkeep fury and swiftness on yourself easily. Warhorn also offers decent regen. You do some pretty good damage for a harrier build with axe/wh and sword/axe, and can use glyphs like I mentioned before for close range debilitation and pressure instead of needing roots and keeping enemies at range. 
 

3. Verdant Etching provides heals that scale reasonably with healing power, implying it to be a healing trait. It offers support with cleanses and light fields and healing, and glyphs themselves are also half support. It's safe to say that's at least a support trait if not an outright healing trait. 

 

4. CA is NOT "just healing". You do decent damage on 5, 3 is a good area disrupt daze, and 2 is spare blinds... like I've already said before, in previous replies. Druid used to be my main for PvP and I KNOW I've seen people make druid work for WvW. Celestial Avatar's skillset is not the problem. 

 

5. You missed the point. Anet doesn't make multiple traits to affect slot skill archetypes (like tricks, glyphs, cantrips, stances, etc.). Profession mechanics, "heal skills", "elite skills", and other designated skills aren't the same thing as a slot skill archetype. 

 

6. Don't rely on the pet for dps. That's untamed's elite spec territory, and a bad idea in general anyway (look how it panned out for them). Do your own damage. You're plenty capable of it with two core traitlines, your stat choices, your weapon skills, and some smarts. 

 

7. I mention raids because I want you to see how adaptable druid is there. It's not "lacking versatility". Pet issues are not druid issues and Celestial Avatar is not bad if you know how to use it both offensively, defensively, and for utility purposes. Second, you shouldn't want your celestial avatar to be a big part of your rotation: that is yet again going into the territory of holosmith and necromancer shrouds. 

 

8. At this point I don't care if I sound rude: I think the non-aligning factor here is a skill issue, not "running in circles". For all the experience you have with druid, if your takeaway is "celestial avatar is bad and needs damage spells, pet needs a buff, and we need condi/power dps trait options", I just don't think you understand druid's overarching ideas, only face value capabilities.

 

If you're not convinced, mail me in game and I'll personally take my druid out to open world content with you and show you that druid is very much a capable spec for solo open world. 

[InsaneQR.7412]

@FalsePromises.6398

 

Why i said we run in circles:

 

We disagree. There is no point in changing my opinion nor am i able to change yours. I stand by my opinion and my game experience withd druid and you stand by yours. So at this point it is not necessary to discuss further.

 

For the typos: i write on my phone and i have sausage fingers and often make typos. Can happen. No need to go off topic about that.

 

About ancient seeds: I played seraph trapper druid with Axe /torch, quickdraw and ancient seeds. Its probably my fav druid build that i ran. We merely disagree in trait and build choice. For might coverage GotL was only worthwhile for me when i ran in zergs.

 

Lastly, i know druid is nice for oPvE. I played it for 4 years more or less as my main and most often just in oPvE solo. If you had a different experience with druid thats good for you. But IMO CAF and druid as a whole could need some improvements to make all game mode experiences better and to make the use of CAF feel more worthwhile.

 

You dont have to share my opinion, thats totally fine. But dont get agitate just because i disagree with you. So as i said above. Cheers, no need for further discussion.

 

[FalsePromises.6398]

1 hour ago, InsaneQR.7412 said:

@FalsePromises.6398

 

Why i said we run in circles:

 

We disagree. There is no point in changing my opinion nor am i able to change yours. I stand by my opinion and my game experience withd druid and you stand by yours. So at this point it is not necessary to discuss further.

 

For the typos: i write on my phone and i have sausage fingers and often make typos. Can happen. No need to go off topic about that.

 

About ancient seeds: I played seraph trapper druid with Axe /torch, quickdraw and ancient seeds. Its probably my fav druid build that i ran. We merely disagree in trait and build choice. For might coverage GotL was only worthwhile for me when i ran in zergs.

 

Lastly, i know druid is nice for oPvE. I played it for 4 years more or less as my main and most often just in oPvE solo. If you had a different experience with druid thats good for you. But IMO CAF and druid as a whole could need some improvements to make all game mode experiences better and to make the use of CAF feel more worthwhile.

 

You dont have to share my opinion, thats totally fine. But dont get agitate just because i disagree with you. So as i said above. Cheers, no need for further discussion.

 

If you're done then feel free not to respond to this, but I've got one last point to consider. Reading this over, looks like the only thing we really directly disagree on when you've given me all the proper context of your statements is about Celestial Avatar's 1 skill. My original post is about druid needing tuneups and celestial avatar needing QoL buffs with lingering light anyway, so no need to focus on the other parts even if they're of slightly different intent, so just think about that CA 1 skill for a second. When you're using axe/torch on your seraph druid build, how often are you relying on that Ricochet skill? It's pretty bad for damage if you're not a power build, right? You yourself mention quickdraw, to cast more 2-5 skills instead of autoattacks, yes? Consider that back to CA 1 skill: it's good for healers, not so useful for other purposes as most 1 skills are. How much of your normal playstyle across most classes in this game hinges on frequently using autoattack? Maybe just mirage, daredevil, and reaper, right? Maybe soulbeast too, but one can fairly say that's more of a filler or a frequent strike for one wolf pack ticks. Looking at em all, Reaper autos a lot just because they rely on cracked out mods in shroud, Mirage autos are used as filler, daredevil autoattack lean is largely because of initiative scarcity... really nothing outright intends to rely on 1 skills. Autoattacks and 1 skills aren't really meant to be highly impactful, your 2-5 skills are. 1 skills are filler. 

Edited November 20, 2021 by FalsePromises.6398

[Zenith.7301]

CA needs to proc through barrier.

Scourge completely cripples the ability of druid to get CA. That's all I have to say. Maybe reduce CA cd to 5 secs.

 

Give back pulsing stability to elite druid spirit.