More Info on Strike Missions, Balance, and Rewards in End of Dragons

[Izzy.2951]

17 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

You  👏 can 👏  raid 👏 in 👏 exotic 👏 gear! 👏

 

Later that day: i have exotic gear (instakicked) from the Raid team. How many Kps? (sometimes they even instakick people from Strikes and are x100 times easier)

And again the effort, time and rewards from raids are not even comparable to Fractals 😂

Edited February 18, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

20 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

 

Later that day: i have exotic gear (instakicked) from the Raid team. How many Kps? (sometimes they even instakick people from Strikes and are x100 times easier)

And again the effort, time and rewards from raids are not even comparable to Fractals 😂

your anecdotal evidence doesn't really prove anything.  I got into raids in exotic gear.  Now what?  We're back at square one.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Sir Alymer.3406

[Izzy.2951]

22 minutes ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

your anecdotal evidence doesn't really prove anything.  I got into raids in exotic gear.

 

What is an evidence is that Fracatls gives much more rewards than Strikes, Raids and Dungeons (even without MC).

What is another evidence is that you need a lot of grind to get 1/2 full set of Ascended + 9infusions. (there is a guy that puted the numbers  in reddit and craftings you needed for it, to justify why this nerf was "not good".)

What is another evidence is that it is Vertical Progression, like it or not. I would even call another evidence that the currencies in this game and how to do stuff is also confusing, you need to keep looking wiki/videos  every 5min.

And what is another evidence is that in general people wont get you to Raid in LFG with exotic gear, and that even if they did, the rewards are bad compared to fractals. 

I wont waste more my time cos i think ive expressed my opinion pretty clear. I would rather do Strikes and Strikes CM with exotic gear, than having to enormously grind to do Fractals CM for DECENT REWARDS.

PD: I had friends in GW1 that got carried in HA to r9, while i had to grind it myself with pugs like most of the people. Back in the day in GW1 when u wanted to do UW people asked if you were good and knew how to, not if you had X gear.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[aeris.5846]

1 hour ago, Izzy.2951 said:

And what is another evidence is that in general people wont get you to Raid in LFG with exotic gear, and that even if they did, the rewards are bad compared to fractals. 

I do all my main raid training in exotic, and mount my alt dps only with exotic for weeks before i loot enough on frac/raids to stuff it  ascended. I even raids with exotic not fully runed because costly ones I don't want to loose on a temporary gear. I craft nothing on my alt, not having a single discipline. Only geared with loot (armor with frac, weapon from raid, trinket from LS). In 3 months.

Currently you can run exotic in raid without trouble, people haven't a way to check your gear and kick you solely from this point. Exotic is not that much less DPS than ascended (13% if I recall correctly) and so perfectly usuable without the start of a single trouble.

Edited February 18, 2022 by aeris.5846

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

1 hour ago, Izzy.2951 said:

 

What is an evidence is that Fracatls gives much more rewards than Strikes, Raids and Dungeons (even without MC).

What is another evidence is that you need a lot of grind to get 1/2 full set of Ascended + 9infusions. (there is a guy that puted the numbers  in reddit and craftings you needed for it, to justify why this nerf was "not good".)

What is another evidence is that it is Vertical Progression, like it or not. I would even call another evidence that the currencies in this game and how to do stuff is also confusing, you need to keep looking wiki/videos  every 5min.

And what is another evidence is that in general people wont get you to Raid in LFG with exotic gear, and that even if they did, the rewards are bad compared to fractals. 

I wont waste more my time cos i think ive expressed my opinion pretty clear. I would rather do Strikes and Strikes CM with exotic gear, than having to enormously grind to do Fractals CM for DECENT REWARDS.

PD: I had friends in GW1 that got carried in HA to r9, while i had to grind it myself with pugs like most of the people. Back in the day in GW1 when u wanted to do UW people asked if you were good and knew how to, not if you had X gear.

You've lost your point when you claim that ascended is some tremendous grind when it clearly isn't.  You've also stuck to this single piece as if it somehow disproves all the other requirements to get fractal T4s+Cms on farm.  It doesn't, first and foremost and the reason being is that your gear doesn't carry you.  You could have full  legendary gear in fractals and still get thrashed by bosses for not knowing mechanics. But hey, live in your own little world, rage about how there's this little  gear requirement (Which you'll get finished by progressing up to scale 100 but, I digress), and ignore everything else.

[aeris.5846]

15 minutes ago, aeris.5846 said:

Only geared with loot (armor with frac, weapon from raid, trinket from LS). In 3 months.

Just for that point too. Yes, fracs and raids loots bunch of ascended if done regularly. But after some months, you don't care at all about those ascended. Your chars/builds already geared and so each ascended loot, 35g value per item at your start, is just 1g after some runs, because you don't need more, you can't sell it nor give it, and they just fill your bank for nothing, with no more value at all for you. You finish by salvaging them for 1g from your pocket…

https://wtf.roflcopter.fr/pics/9sFCovxg/TRRaJUQ0.png

Edited February 18, 2022 by aeris.5846

[The Boz.2038]

2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Yeah sure, you can raid in exotic gear, tell that to any group in the LFG. I mean please, lets be honest. They ask you for 231414 extra thing just to make sure you can do the raid.

I can raid with exotic gear. Did so multiple times. With statics on discord, and with pugs. They ask you for KP, to prove you know how the raid mechanics work. If you fail that check, well, eh. 

2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Laurels you need maybe 60 days of loging in to just get 1 full set of just jewerly, not even backpiece or breather. (and what about the +9 infusions?)

You don't need a breather. Also, available in LWS3. You don't need +9 infusions, unless you are doing high fractals, in which case you earn one ascended piece of gear each time you do the daily. And they're not expensive; 4 gold is an investment, but it's not bank-breaking.

2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Season currencies sure, they are confusing as hell, you need quite some farm

Not really confusing. And an hour in a zone will earn you the most expensive item; an earring. Plus, Return To will absolutely drown you in currencies.

11 minutes ago, aeris.5846 said:

Exotic is not that much less DPS than ascended (13% if I recall correctly)

Stat difference is 6%. The weapon strength difference is 5%. 

[Dielfazor.3142]

3 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

 

 

70% of what i read here and in reddit are ironic comments or like "they didnt give a reason, why they quit mc", and the answer is already in the official post:

 

At this point already, and having in mind fractals CMs etc are very unacesible from new/returnee players since you need to invest lots of money/hours to get in there, i think its much better to ask anet for not a total nerf, but rather give 0-1 rng MC or 0-2 rng MC as much.

 

I think you're talking about reddit mostly, people on the forums are much more civil its better not to mix up the two XD

But I think your posts raise good points, the only issue is that none of them are adressed by Anet, and ... you're not anet either, so Its fair to keep asking, I wouldnt mind just a partial nerf as you propose, but what I really want is just a consistent answer from Anet thats about it, if its "We want to focus all our resources into strikes so it makes sense that we balance all the rewards around it" so be it, at least we get an answer and not a contradictory post that tries to justify things without ever adressing them directly, I'm sorry its just how someone that's heavily invested into CM's feel, no one here wants harm or annoyance on anyone, but I think its within our rights as veteran players that sunk a lot of time and money in the game

[aeris.5846]

52 minutes ago, Dielfazor.3142 said:

heavily invested into CM's

Just a reaction about that too. Unrelated related topic but I think the **VERY HUGE** difference between openworld and raid/fractal, and even strikes is the source of the trouble.

 

I personally think the way raid/fractal need investment, squad composition, correct gear and some understand of basic gameplay (boon, cc, dodge, combo…) would be the goal to target and not the brainless squad bashing world boss with auto-attack with no coordination at all or people currently not able to see it's not normal to wipe 3 times at kodan strike and to finish with not even silver rewards.

 

Surely the coordination/engagment must not be as high as raid/frac cm ones (massive training, ascended stuff, kp…), but currently it's just awful to see people doing tequalt, supposed to be one of the hardest wb, without at least 5×10 ppl subs org with one healers in all (I don't even speak about might/quick/alac or ascended gears) and some small dps check to need a little more than 50ppl doing aa on boss feet (and even with only aa, i finish usually top dps with 2nd 5-10× behind mine).
Triple trouble is way more interesting for that, with some role need (blocker, cleanse, condi husk…), 3 coms coordination, probable failure at the end, but is rewarded with nothing when teq is 3g daily.

 

Even on frac, I do some low tiers run for fun time to time, and it's incredible to see people not even have a single clue of what the game allow to do. With 30min explanation, 2-3 links about builds & comp, they go from 5 wipes 20 min single frac with no boon and to single try 5min frac. And change from marauder stuff "because i die without that" to berserker because they discover HFB, dodge, aegis, stab & other simple tricks.
It's not that much engagement & effort to incredibly level up the average level. And currently, you can't have access in game to the ressources you need to understand the basis of the game, class, build & roles.

Edited February 18, 2022 by aeris.5846

[Geoff Fey.1035]

@aeris.5846 Agreed with the lower level Fractals. It's quite honestly stunning the sheer number of newbie level 80s you see to whom the concept of "dodging" they interpret as "move out of the AoE" (similar to WoW).

It's like.... no my child, no, here tap the key twice and they completely lose their minds. 

ANet's "new player experience" update was great--assuming you played 1-80. But the level 80 booster is so ridiculously easy to get now that a lot of new players seem to think what you can do in the Tutorial is the full extent of what is available in GW2 and that is hilariously not so. If ANet reworked the Tutorial to use dodge (say, to access the boss?) or other little things like that we would see a dramatic change in how people view the game.

This relates to the post in the data of not many people doing CM's based more on the fact of lack of knowledge (mechanics) than anything else, and there's no real "learning curve" for it as the mechanics are so unforgiving you don't get the chance to make mistakes and learn without either repeated wipes or getting a training run.

Don't get me wrong--I do appreciate the data and as long as the liquid gold remains the same (i.e. Fractal Encryptions) I can deal. It's just there needs to be a good hard look at what motivates people to climb the Fractal/Raid ladder as to why you'll see X number of people playing it and in this case it's the sheer amount of wealth and different things you can focus on (gold farming, karma farming, spirit shard farming, clover/coin farming, or any combination therein) rather than just 1 or 2 things (gold, leggie armour from raids--an oversimplification but I'm outta time)

[aeris.5846]

12 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

If ANet reworked the Tutorial to use dodge (say, to access the boss?) or other little things like that we would see a dramatic change in how people view the game.

I can't name "tutorial" a single usage skill then forget it. 🤣

Even drizzlewood champion supposed to have  red/green phase are just killed with full constant dps on it. Just one shot ppl not respecting red phase instead of just blind them?

Currently even puzzle supposed to require dodge/aegis (Doric) are skippable with just rushing over the puzzle. Seems EoD supposed to be better on that, but EoD would not be accessible directly for new player, we need that on 1-80 leveling too.

Create puzzle requiring swiftness to pass. Boss resilient to condi then power to show the difference to player. Create boss not sensible to dps and only winnable with survival (heal, regen, aegis, dodge…).

Edited February 18, 2022 by aeris.5846

[Izzy.2951]

2 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

You've lost your point when you claim that ascended is some tremendous grind when it clearly isn't.  You've also stuck to this single piece as if it somehow disproves all the other requirements to get fractal T4s+Cms on farm.  It doesn't, first and foremost and the reason being is that your gear doesn't carry you.  You could have full  legendary gear in fractals and still get thrashed by bosses for not knowing mechanics. But hey, live in your own little world, rage about how there's this little  gear requirement (Which you'll get finished by progressing up to scale 100 but, I digress), and ignore everything else.

Im not raging about anything, im just saying i like the change even tho i wouldnt completly eliminate the rng MC drops from Fractals CM (but drastically reduce it). But maybe not thinking like you annoys you. I think you have sitted too much into GW2 to have a big perspective to the whole scene of the population, specially new/returnees.

This comes from one guy that dislikes the change as you:

Quote

In order to do fractals and CMs, you need -

Full ascended armour, full ascended weapons, full ascended accessories, full +9s and an infused backpack.

Total gold investment - 524.4g

Minimun days to get god title 230 days to get 32g

Completly free stuff you get at level 80 (for  not counting getting your first full exotic gear, mounts, interpretating what to do since sometimes gw2 currencies and systems are confusing as hell). 

 

Edited February 18, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[aeris.5846]

39 minutes ago, Geoff Fey.1035 said:

assuming you played 1-80

Even playing 1-80 is largely not enough for most ppl I guess. Rushing exploration, not even dungeon or personal story. Use the random inconsistent stuff you got without thinking about it. In all cases you haven't a single clue about what prefix/stats are and do. Just kill mob with 2-3 hits. Only 3 last Orr map have harder mobs, but no heart to do so just more rush is good.

You arrive at lvl 80 with 1% knowledge of the game basis for a vast majority of ppl I guess. And here you have access to strike/raids/fractal without this knowledge and don't understand what arrive to you in this instanciated content.

 

Could be interesting to create a survey to ask newly first-timer lvl 80 questions about basic mecanic.
What is dodge? Condi/power? Boons? What stats/prefix needed for which role? Which classes cover which boons? What is target/boon cap? Results should be very interesting…

Edited February 18, 2022 by aeris.5846

[Izzy.2951]

9 minutes ago, aeris.5846 said:

You arrive at lvl 80 with 1% knowledge of the game basis for a vast majority of ppl I guess. And here you have access to strike/raids/fractal without this knowledge and don't understand what arrive to you in this instanciated content.

This, completly true. And even less, cos you can pass the core game without reading your build. And the game doesnt even teach you about endgame stuff or mechanics (only a bit of Dungeons).

Edited February 18, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[Banryuu.2156]

I see many people misunderstand this line:

Quote

We want to spread the love to other types of content, but that means that no single source should award such high amounts of legendary resources at the same time.

Just one line above that (in the post), you can read:

Quote

Although this chance is random and unreliable, it adds up as many players take on Challenge Mode fractals consistently, making fractals the most efficient one-stop source for obtaining the gold, Mystic Coins, and Mystic Clovers you need for legendary progression.

To make it clear they don't want a single content to provide gold, Mystic Coins and Mystic Clovers all by itself.

However, I do not agree with the decision they made, in fact I think they should INCREASE the reward from fractal CMs. Here's why: "They’re not played as much relative to other sources because the content is very difficult and exclusive." - as they said. And I think the harder the content is, the more rewarding it should be.

Guild Wars 2 is not a tipical MMO where a new content increase the maxumim level of a character, gives higher level gear with more stats etc. Once you reach lvl 80 you can enjoy all the high-end content and make your legendaries or whatever you like to do. So the developers should not abandon an older content just because they want more focus on the new one, older ones are still part of the end-game. Especially as they are "hoping that once those players try out Strike Missions, they'll find that they love 10-player cooperative content and train up with their friends to try out harder things in the future, including strike Challenge Modes and raids!"

And ArenaNet also "want more players to craft and enjoy legendary weapons", so let's see what do you need for them (without mentioning every ingredient):
- Some account bound items such as obsidian shards, spirit shards, runestones etc.
- World completion or HoT, PoF map completion / currencies.
- Gift of Battle, that you can get ONLY from WvW!
- Tier 6 and lower materials.
- And of course Mystic Clovers / Coins.

You can buy a lot of materials from Traiding Post, even generation 1 legendary weapons, but you need gold for that. A lot! And for a regular player, getting all of these can be too much.
So maybe more MCs will reach the economy because more players can get them from easier content, and they won't keep them to make legendary items. But nobody can predict how much player will actually buy EoD, try stikes and keep doing them. Less people are doing instanced content because it requires more focus/skill/time so why would suddenly everybody do stikes that will be close to raid level?

But why people not playing some content as much relative to other sources?
- Maybe time? Some people can only play on weekends or few days in a week for few hours.
- People are not interested in harder contents? They just like to do story, explorer the world of Tyria.
- Some others only play WvW or PvP.

Do these people even want legendaries? WvW players probably, PvP doesn't need them (everything is standard, you don't even have to be lvl 80), in open world also not necessery to have fun...maybe they want to get a few weapon for skins. Other than that ascendend or exotic gear is sufficient for almost everywhere to enjoy the game.
For hardcore players they are also not necessery, but very useful to be able to switch builds around in instanced contents.

So the question is how many players actually want to craft/have legendary items? Maybe only the small hardcore playerbase who are doing end-game content regularly? And probably these players already have some of them.
New players are joining from time to time who might want to get legendaries and interested in more difficult contents but won't learn them because not rewarding anymore.

Let's see the options?
- WvW: you can semi-AFK and capture camps every 5-10 minutes to keep your progress and get your pips, WvW tickets etc., after a ridiculously long time (don't forget that you only get extra pips after certain WvW level) you get enought tickets to get your legendary armor.
- PvP: it's an advantage if you know your skills as you play against other players (normally in a 5 vs 5 arena). The more matches you win the faster you get your pips and the faster you can finish your legendary armor.
- PvE: there are more instanced contents and open world of course.

- World bosses, map meta events: they are pretty much alive (you just need to be there in time, like 5-10 minutes earlier). Usually there are commanders who can explain what to do or just follow them. No need special skills as there can be as much players as the map can hold and the bosses will die anyway. You can get nice loot even for legendaries.

- Dungeons: 5 player content but most of them can be solo or duo if the players are experienced, but with more people it's much faster. Not all requires lvl 80. Dungeon currencies are needed for some legendary weapons.

- Raids: 10 player content where if you do not kill the bosses in time, you die. That's why having certain skills/knowledge is necessary. With a decent group if 2-3 players die you can still make it. If you want to get into them there are raid training guilds whos willing to help you get better with them. So you can carry your own weight in it. And raids are the sources of PvE legendary armor collection (and so far the only one for Legendary Insights/Divinations).

- Fractals: 5 player content, less people more responsibility on each player. If a player dies at the beginning most likely better to restart the boss or it will take much more time (especially in higher level).

Now here is a misconception about fractals.
"The reward is too high anyway." A few days ago someone told me he got 10g from doing T4+recs (let's say in 1 hour). That's really too high, is it? You can get ~30g/h with farming some maps, no skill required, can semi-AFK. You get ~30g/h from fractals IF you already have "fractal god" title (that gives you extra encryptions with high value junk items) which you can get by doing CMs+T4s+recs EVERY DAY FOR 230 DAYS! Unless you use your credit card and get some gold with gems, you need to start from the bottom, exotic armor is fine in lower level fractals, but later you need ascended for agony resistance infusions to survive the agony damage. It takes weeks (or more) to get full ascended gear and 150 AR, and knowing the mechanich not bad either. And even more time to get used to each fractal and be able to do CMs+T4s in an hour.
I remember times when we wiped a lot at bosses, people left the party, more LFG time, wipe again a few times, did 1 fractal in an hour! So yeah, if people take time and effort in something like this, they should get high reward. Most people are reward oriented so they won't even start to learn fractals, unless it gives more reward than doing a map-meta event (and it will take a lot of time to get more profit).

So by the sake of "spreading the love" I would like to see that every content has every reward based on the difficulty.
- You can purchase 5 clovers / week from strikes and 10 from raids/fractals. This is fine, strikes supposed to be easier than raids/fractals so less reward.
- Let's say if you clear a raid wing you get 1 MC, that's 7 in one week. Doing 5 challenge mode bosses already gives provisioner tokens, there's that.
- Dungeon Frequenter would also give 2 MCs in a week.
- Remove the randomness from fractals as well, let completing daily fractals give 1 MC and completing all CMs another one. 14 MCs in a week for a "difficult and exclusive" content isn't that much. And don't forget that in the beginning daily T4+recs give ~10g so in a week you get ~70g which is more or less the same what you get from raids. It's time and dedication to get more gold out of fractals. If someone willing to put that effort in it then he/she deserves the reward.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Banryuu.2156

[The Boz.2038]

17 minutes ago, Izzy.2951 said:

Full ascended armour, full ascended weapons, full ascended accessories, full +9s and an infused backpack.

Total gold investment - 524.4g

What? That's overpriced by almost two times. Armor is 180 gold in the most expensive variant crafted, weapons 30-120 gold if crafted. Trinkets are basically free; an entire set of six is four hours farming on S3 maps over two different days. Sixteen infusions are 65ish gold, 18 for 73 if weapon switching. Rings should be attuned, one should be infused, for comfort, maybe. Total 275-375 gold, not 524.4.

And, again, really doesn't have to be an upfront cost. T1 is doable with no agony resistance, no ascended items at all. T2 needs trinkets, and T3 only weapons up until level 70. 
 

[Izzy.2951]

6 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

What? That's overpriced by almost two times. Armor is 180 gold in the most expensive variant crafted, weapons 30-120 gold if crafted. Trinkets are basically free; an entire set of six is four hours farming on S3 maps over two different days. Sixteen infusions are 65ish gold, 18 for 73 if weapon switching. Rings should be attuned, one should be infused, for comfort, maybe. Total 275-375 gold, not 524.4.

And, again, really doesn't have to be an upfront cost. T1 is doable with no agony resistance, no ascended items at all. T2 needs trinkets, and T3 only weapons up until level 70. 
 

 

Here you have the full explanation, and it wasnt written by me, anyways i still think the same about this whole fractal topic (even if there are "cheaper" ways, people will do it generally the normal way at start)

 

Now lets look at the commitment -

In order to do fractals and CMs, you need -

Full ascended armour, full ascended weapons, full ascended accessories, full +9s and an infused backpack.

How much does this cost -

Leatherworking to 400 - 20.7g

Leatherworking from 400 to 500 - 15.1g

Leatherworking total - 35.8g

Armour crafting - 33.5g, 35g, 46.7g, 35g, 41.9g, 39.9g

Huntsman to 400 - 20.9g

Huntsman from 400 to 500 - 40.1g

Hunstman to 500 - 61g

Weapons (2 axe for example) - 36.8g, 36.8g

Infusing backpack - 50g

18 +9s (assuming no weapon swapping) - 72g

Total gold investment - 524.4g

This is 524g just to START doing daily CMs + T4. This doesn't take into consideration at all the amount of time investment you need to get good at the game to reach that time, which btw is a very significant amount of time, and also the 230 days minimum needed to get fractal god in order to reach the 32g per hour.

Edited February 18, 2022 by Izzy.2951

[The Boz.2038]

AHAAHAHAHAA!!!!
DUDE COUNTS IN THE COST TO LEVEL CRAFTING!
AHAAHAHAHAA!!!
 

[aeris.5846]

1 hour ago, Banryuu.2156 said:

Unless you use your credit card and get some gold with gems, you need to start from the bottom, exotic armor is fine in lower level fractals, but later you need ascended for agony resistance infusions to survive the agony damage. It takes weeks (or more) to get full ascended gear and 150 AR

It doesn't take so long to get full ascended gear with 162 AR. But only few people know how to get that in only 5 weeks for zero gold. And not that much required engagement.

Level up to 80. Try to understand your class/build/role/stat/basic mecanics during this leveling.

Join a training guild. Kill VG, sabetha, matthias, sloth, kc, xera only once. Gorseval each week during 5 weeks. Finish your first legendary collection, free full selectable set ascended armor. For 5 weeks & 0 golds. No heavy training, no strong engagement, any standard training group can achieve the required 11 kills in 5 weeks (gors + another boss each week) with barely 2h session a week. It's maximum 10 hours to invest, not more. Even if you are carried by your guild/team, doesn't count at the moment, you will correctly learn mecanics after that and even carried you start learning them.

During that, farm winterberry in Bitterfrost & mistborn on Dragonfall. Do daily strikes to collect ice and then convert to mistborn. Full ascended trickets for 0 gold in few weeks, 30min-1h per day maximum.

I loot equivalent of 1-2 +9 per day in my daily CM run, I can offer you a full 162RA set in 3 weeks without any problem. I will not cry about 70g I do in 2 days.

5 weeks. 0 gold. Full ascended gears with 162 RA. With cooperation/guild/players interactions and help.  But nobody give a kitten about this.

The only "difficult" part is ascended weapon, but do specialization collection, or tequatl each day with a hope for a loot. Or ask guildies for mats for craft. In all cases 144 RA enough to do T4 daily, even CM i guess, so exotic weapons will be enough. Tons of gold looted, enough to craft weapon a little later.
In worst case, it's only 70g, once again I can offer you mats for one set without trouble.

Even if not optimized, it's 2-3 months maximum, with 30min each 3 days for LS money + 2h session a week for raids. Is that anet consider "not enough casual"?

Edited February 18, 2022 by aeris.5846

[Izzy.2951]

1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said:

AHAAHAHAHAA!!!!
DUDE COUNTS IN THE COST TO LEVEL CRAFTING!
AHAAHAHAHAA!!!
 

 

Well if you are a new/returnee player i guess you need to count that in order to start working on it no? Or its like if you count that every new account is given the griffon without spending 250g.

[The Boz.2038]

Where did you get the account? Shouldn't that be in the cost?
What about the character slot, those aren't free!
Also, you need to be level 80! So account for the booster, too...

We're already up to THOUSANDS of gold just to start playing fractals!

[aeris.5846]

2 hours ago, aeris.5846 said:

I will not cry about 70g I do in 2 days.

Oh, and about this, this is exactly why MC & clovers from CMs are important. I don't care about raw gold or T5-6-7 mats. There are many way to do gold, some more profitable than CMs. And doing T5-6 is as easy as doing AFK farm on Istan (8gph, only 5× less than the most difficult content of the game…).
Don't care now too about ascended loot, I'm fully armor/trinket/runes legendary. Looted trinkets mostly crap (only zerk & cele worth) and no ascended weapon loot from frac (only from raids).
Only MC & clovers make me run this content daily today.

And I'm also only a casual player, at least not a real hardcore gamer. I don't spend hours on golem to practice rotation (I don't even remember doing golem a single time), doing not that 90% SC bench, barely 85%, nor training for speedclear run or world records. Haven't that much role I can fill (mostly guardian roles only, some mesmer tank, but that's all. No good scourge, no alac, crappy druid, no bs, no elem…).

I invest 1h daily for frac, and 8h weekly for FC raids. And clearly I will not have more time to cover both MC/clover from strikes AND time to cover gold from frac without becoming a full time hardcore gamer like some GW2 streamers do.

Yeah, it's time consuming but also because level very low and LFG tedious each time, with ppl not making a single effort to progress on this content. Yeah, I now have 1200LI and 68kUFE, full leggy or near to have it. But it's not that difficult to have this level.
Mostly I got troubles because of lack of overall game comprehension and in game tutorial. People not understanding even the simple mecanics. Raging on a easy boss because 10min downtime each time too many unskilled ppl joining the group and still no kill after 1h.
Raids and CM are not that hard. I organize CM training. After 3-4 2h training, people mostly ready for pug. Trouble is people trying to do this content without any clue about what to do because the game doesn't learn that and polluting the LFG, requiring ppl to ask for KP to hope avoiding this. Joining CM pug with marauder gear or as druid? Seriously?
Doing easy raids wings (at least 1-3-4) is possible for everybody. Sometime I just start a squad, filling it with totally random people grabed from LA with kitten stuff. 10min explanation about standard game mecanics (not even boss, just game!), and VG killed in less than 1hour with only 2-3 experienced ppl for core mecanics. But regular weekly FC just a pain because lack of overall knowledge and pug too hard and hazardous. You have to redo kind of training each time… And have no time for that, 8h a week is still very important for many ppl, I don't want to take all my free time for those content. FC raid in pug before I find a lovely guild doing FC and accept me was about 28-30h a week without garanty to FC. 4h each day. From monday to sunday. And not even FC at the end… For content you are supposed to be able to clear in 2h…

If anet explain mecanics and basic understanding of the game during 1-80 leveling, i guess mostly everybody can do weekly FC raid in 3 evening and CMs daily in 1h.

Edited February 18, 2022 by aeris.5846

[Epsilon Indi.2031]

4 hours ago, Dielfazor.3142 said:

I think you're talking about reddit mostly, people on the forums are much more civil its better not to mix up the two XD

Reddit has less restrictions on what you can say about ANet devs and admins.  You can actually s peaka your mind bluntly there with very little consequence.  Here, however, you're liable to get actioned.


 

 

2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

 

Well if you are a new/returnee player i guess you need to count that in order to start working on it no? Or its like if you count that every new account is given the griffon without spending 250g.

That's a non issue.  You get celestial gear and a level 80 booster if you buy the expansions.  Which you need to do any content beyond level 50 in fractals anyways.

2 hours ago, Izzy.2951 said:

 

Here you have the full explanation, and it wasnt written by me, anyways i still think the same about this whole fractal topic (even if there are "cheaper" ways, people will do it generally the normal way at start)

 

Now lets look at the commitment -

In order to do fractals and CMs, you need -

Full ascended armour, full ascended weapons, full ascended accessories, full +9s and an infused backpack.

How much does this cost -

Leatherworking to 400 - 20.7g

Leatherworking from 400 to 500 - 15.1g

Leatherworking total - 35.8g

Armour crafting - 33.5g, 35g, 46.7g, 35g, 41.9g, 39.9g

Huntsman to 400 - 20.9g

Huntsman from 400 to 500 - 40.1g

Hunstman to 500 - 61g

Weapons (2 axe for example) - 36.8g, 36.8g

Infusing backpack - 50g

18 +9s (assuming no weapon swapping) - 72g

Total gold investment - 524.4g

This is 524g just to START doing daily CMs + T4. This doesn't take into consideration at all the amount of time investment you need to get good at the game to reach that time, which btw is a very significant amount of time, and also the 230 days minimum needed to get fractal god in order to reach the 32g per hour.

There's so much wrong here with your maths that I don't actually have the time or want to show you why it's wrong.  Take it out of the vacuum and it all falls apart.  You'll be wanting maxed out crafting disciplines soon anyways.  You get level 80 boosts with the expansions which you need in order to get up to level 100 in fractals.  You need to actually get your personal level to 100 in fractals in order to consistently run CMs+T4s...

It's like you forgot that fractals has its own progression mechanic just so you could pump out some garbage gold value to say 'it's too expensive' when you're just helping my argument by stating that the investment is high?  Hello, you there Izzy?  You okay?   I said that the investment time, skill, and gear) into Fractals was high enough to justify the good drops and loot from the content.
 

[Gorem.8104]

10 hours ago, aeris.5846 said:

And clearly, CMs are only interesting with clovers. and so with MC. Without this, it's better to do Dragonfall (30gph), Drizzlewood (30gph + clovers), Istan (27gph), Bitterfrost (27gph), Auric (27gph) than CMs (30gph without MC). More diverse content (5 completly differents content on 7 days instead of mostly the same each day), no downtime to fill an LFG, no stress and blacklist because ppl bad, no training, no RA/omnipots/fractal god/ required, no bunch of ascended required, no 2-3 full builds required, and mostly the same time to run (~1h).

 

Last I checked on Fast I saw Drizzlewood reaching 35 gold per hour due to the price changes, which makes it even more lucrative. If anything I'm amazed that was not their target for nerfs. Why spend all the effort, and time, and get good at the game when you can semi afk as a herald inside of camps with alt accounts logging in for daily login rewards, the more alt account heralds, the greater your gold production. Could just imagine 100's of gold per hour. 
Or Fractals, which require effort and work and long time investment, require you to improve yourself and you can't afk it. You have to get good at the game with your class. Have to get geared and work, which is rewarding sure, but not as rewarding as just afking as heralds in open world and having many many accounts. 
The only reason they are moving rewards from CM's to EoD strikes and not IBS strikes, is cause they want you to buy EoD cause their marketing team sucks. I bet if Anet actually knew how to market they wouldn't need to do stuff like this. 
And please stop feeding the trolls, Izzy is obviously just here to derail and troll, better to ignore 🙂

[Izzy.2951]

3 hours ago, Sir Alymer.3406 said:

There's so much wrong here with your maths that I don't actually have the time or want to show you why it's wrong.  

I said that the investment time and gear) into Fractals was high enough to justify the good drops and loot from the content.

I dont know if you lack reading comprenhension, this maths are done by a fractal player that was complaining about this change with the argument "it takes a lot of investment in money/time" so we dont deserve a nerf: Why The Fractak Change is Bad And Why It Has Finally Pushed Me To Refound EoD.   

And now you say that the drops are justified cos it takes a lot of investment in money time etc, but you have been 4 post in a row saying how easy was to get into fractals cm, idk bro, stop contradicting yourself. (once more, fractals are already the most rewarding instanced in pve, see you in the new strikes)

 

5 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Where did you get the account? Shouldn't that be in the cost?
What about the character slot, those aren't free!
Also, you need to be level 80! So account for the booster, too...

We're already up to THOUSANDS of gold just to start playing fractals!

Fractals CM +524.4g, Strikes 0 gold.

Getting 40 MC from Fractals CM 25 runs in one month, 8 runs from Strikes/CMs. Yeeah im definetly gonna enjoy the change, hope you guys do aswell. 🙂

Edited February 18, 2022 by Izzy.2951