[PvE] Condi-Renegade Post-Nerf

[Plaidygami.4732]

Sorry for posting a potentially dumb thread, but been scouring the forums for suggestions after the nerf to condi renegade. I currently run this build. I've been told that condi-renegade is still viable, despite the nerf to torment and sustain. However, I've definitely been feeling noticeably weaker in PvE.

So looks like the new meta is to switch from torment+viper to celestial/trailblazer, from my understanding? Also Nightmare runes would be good but they require dungeon-specific currency, and these days it feels like no one ever does dungeons anymore.

EDIT: To clarify, this discussion is purely for PvE open world content. Mostly solo, but also sometimes with others.

Edited March 9, 2022 by AdelaisAer.4109

[Infusion.7149]

Just weaponswap to trigger on swap sigils, that's the only difference for Invocation variants. The Devastation variant you linked loses a bit of sustain and damage from Battle Scars change from 298 to 117 base damage and 202 to 117 base healing. Battle Scars only makes up ~8% or about 3K DPS total which means it's near negligible in the grand scheme of things as it was not removed and only reduced.

Cele is only run for condi alacrity with leadership runes to hit ~79% Boon duration, presumably it would be on par with ritualist gear.

[Buran.3796]

54 minutes ago, AdelaisAer.4109 said:

 Also Nightmare runes would be good but they require dungeon-specific currency, and these days it feels like no one ever does dungeons anymore.

   You can farm the runes in PvP chest without doing the dungeons. Also, in PvE I find Shiro + Jalis in full viper or viper + TB to have more sustain than Kalla + Mallyx in celestial or TB gear. If you're running Kalla and want more sustain the obvious choice is All for One trait and not Heartpiercer (which obviously means a lose in damage), but either you're seraching dps or sustain.

   So accept the lower sustain and embrace full viper for dps or get the sustain from the mobility and damage mitigation in Shiro and Jalist.

[Plaidygami.4732]

8 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

   You can farm the runes in PvP chest without doing the dungeons. Also, in PvE I find Shiro + Jalis in full viper or viper + TB to have more sustain than Kalla + Mallyx in celestial or TB gear. If you're running Kalla and want more sustain the obvious choice is All for One trait and not Heartpiercer (which obviously means a lose in damage), but either you're seraching dps or sustain.

   So accept the lower sustain and embrace full viper for dps or get the sustain from the mobility and damage mitigation in Shiro and Jalist.

Thanks, I appreciate the reply.

I don't do PvP so I guess I'll have to find friends to do the dungeons with.

Hmmm, alright. I'll try running Shiro/Jalis and see how it goes. I've been focusing on just Kalla and I guess I got too tunnel-visioned on that. I guess the idea now is to kill your enemy before the enemy kills you, eh?

[Plaidygami.4732]

18 minutes ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Just weaponswap to trigger on swap sigils, that's the only difference for Invocation variants. The Devastation variant you linked loses a bit of sustain and damage from Battle Scars change from 298 to 117 base damage and 202 to 117 base healing. Battle Scars only makes up ~8% or about 3K DPS total which means it's near negligible in the grand scheme of things as it was not removed and only reduced.

Cele is only run for condi alacrity with leadership runes to hit ~79% Boon duration, presumably it would be on par with ritualist gear.

Yeah, that build was fairly good pre-nerf, but now I can't rely on Battle Scars anymore. I'll try to see if I can find any good builds with Invocation instead of Devastation.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

9 minutes ago, AdelaisAer.4109 said:

Thanks, I appreciate the reply.

I don't do PvP so I guess I'll have to find friends to do the dungeons with.

Hmmm, alright. I'll try running Shiro/Jalis and see how it goes. I've been focusing on just Kalla and I guess I got too tunnel-visioned on that. I guess the idea now is to kill your enemy before the enemy kills you, eh?

no, keep running Kalla/Mallyx.  Dance of Death is nerfed, yes, but it's still more than viable with good positioning, even in full viper/dps gear.  If you lose Mallyx you lose a ton of condi damage output AND you lose one of the best pulls in the game which is fantastic for open world mobs.  Kalla brings her amazing CC with Darkrazor and Icerazor (and even Soulcleave) are more than enough to top you off.  I would not run Shiro/Jalis unless you absolutely don't care about your damage output.  Shiro is only "more sustainable" because it focuses on active damage mitigation (evades), but you have to stop pressuring for that to work which makes fights take longer which means more time for you to end up dead in the long run.  Shiro/Jalis is also going to perform worse for damage on open world champs/legendaries/meta events meaning potentially higher fail rates/more time spent and wasted.  I would highlyyyy advise Mallyx/Kalla and just to focus on working on your positioning and learning your sustain synergies.  ^my suggestions here are for Open World/Solo play

For Instanced PvE the Invocation Variant is better than the Devastation Variant now, but it takes longer to ramp up significantly and has hitbox variances due to relying on Citadel Bombardment for some of its damage

Edited March 9, 2022 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Plaidygami.4732]

3 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

no, keep running Kalla/Mallyx.  Dance of Death is nerfed, yes, but it's still more than viable with good positioning, even in full viper/dps gear.  If you lose Mallyx you lose a ton of condi damage output AND you lose one of the best pulls in the game which is fantastic for open world mobs.  Kalla brings her amazing CC with Darkrazor and Icerazor (and even Soulcleave) are more than enough to top you off.  I would not run Shiro/Jalis unless you absolutely don't care about your damage output.  Shiro is only "more sustainable" because it focuses on active damage mitigation (evades), but you have to stop pressuring for that to work which makes fights take longer which means more time for you to end up dead in the long run.  Shiro/Jalis is also going to perform worse for damage on open world champs/legendaries/meta events meaning potentially higher fail rates/more time spent and wasted.  I would highlyyyy advise Mallyx/Kalla and just to focus on working on your positioning and learning your sustain synergies. 

For Instanced PvE the Invocation Variant is better than the Devastation Variant now, but it takes longer to ramp up significantly and has hitbox variances due to relying on Citadel Bombardment for some of its damage

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it! It's good to have another opinion about this matter. You mentioned "even in full viper". Does that mean there's another set of stats you'd recommend over viper? Sorry if it's a naive question. I'm not new but I have still a lot to learn about builds and stats.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

3 hours ago, AdelaisAer.4109 said:

Thanks for the reply, appreciate it! It's good to have another opinion about this matter. You mentioned "even in full viper". Does that mean there's another set of stats you'd recommend over viper? Sorry if it's a naive question. I'm not new but I have still a lot to learn about builds and stats.

Viper’s is great because Renegade does a non-negligible amount of power damage and in open world most mobs explode quicker with more power damage. 
 

you mentioned it already, but trailblazer’s/celestial is a good alternative (or partial alternative) if you need more survivability.  I don’t personally feel I need that in open world even after the changes so I prefer Vipers for the higher damage when killing mobs and bosses. 

[captrowdy.9561]

I was running around in celestial before the nerf. Shiro/Kalla. It was a blast then and it’s fine now. It’s actually more fun. Before the nerf I could just tank everything and plow.  now I actually have to think alittle. This is just open world. I normally do WvW which cele ren is so fun to use.