Permanently Immobilized

[Cyprien.4208]

I'm your basic player (main guardian) and yes good thief may get the better of me I've been able to take on most of them no problem. I use meditation skills the two cleanses and trait that adds cleanse to F2.

[Odinens.5920]

I basically only play Guardian in WvW. Frontline core for zergs, and DH meditrapper for roaming. Learn to play that meditrapper build and soon thieves will be running from you rather than killing you.

[AliamRationem.5172]

@"Almighty Dervisher.6720" said:I used to have the optimism that humanity would help someone if they asked, but that's been proven wrong many times before. There's a reason I don't bother asking for help, it's just the typical: "git gud" or common advice that is completely useless. Basically a majority of threads asking for advice/help are ignored in many communities.

Hey, you're the one who didn't seem to understand how to fight a thief. Your original post claims there is nothing you can do because the thief can spam immobilize. This ignores the fact that it wasn't the immobilize that killed you, but the damaging conditions you allowed to tick away your health without cleansing. If you had cleansed those conditions, the thief can burn his initiative all day long spamming immobilize, but it isn't going to kill you. It's not as if guardians don't have strong healing capabilities, so sooner or later if you're cleansing properly you will force the thief to use initiative for something other than spamming immob if he expects to actually kill you 1v1.

By letting those conditions stand you allowed the thief to sit back spamming immob while your health slowly drained away. Why would he do otherwise? You never forced him to.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:Well i'm a Guardian so there's 0 chance of killing the guy. Also I tried battling shortly after. I have a habit of standing there with immobilization, to add a bit of dramatic effect. The difference is the immobilizations continued stacking, so even after I cleansed it didn't matter. Full health and the immobilizations continued, on top of Daze and other ridiculous things. I activated maybe two or three skills and was already done.

That's just broken.

Wei Qi near full ascended gear and my character goes down like butter, even with a -10% incoming damage signet. Either that class is beyond broken, or Guardians are beyond useless.

I used to be like you thinking I had zero chance of killing a thief. Then I made and played a thief for about 6 months exclusively and learned their rotations and cooldowns. When I went back to playing my guardian main I realized how silly I'd been. Between aegis and blocks and blinds and reflects and more aegis, and about 3-4 solid condi-cleanse (some that are offensive in nature), you should never be immobilized or stacked that hard with conditions from a thief. Maybe if they were using a cheesy pub-stomp type build, but even then once you know whats coming you know how to avoid a chunk of the damage.

Now, will that mean you will win all the fights? No, not even close. But you will win your fair share and you will find that thieves aren't as bad all the time.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Whenever I find myself losing horribly in PvP or WvW, my first assumption is that I'm doing something wrong. Or that the other player is a lot better than I. (Or both.)

For example, not that long ago, a friend & I went 2v1 against the same Warrior several times in a row. He owned us, albeit more slowly during the last encounter. Accordingly I asked in the Warrior forum: did anyone catch the license of the truck that hit us? And can they offer any advice to help counter? I got several helpful responses (and not a single negative one). They went into detail about what sort of trait/skills, what sort of tells I should look for, and how to mask my own tells and counter (both with skills and tactics). I expect I'd still lose, but that's because the guy really knew how to make his build sing.

Therefore, I'd recommend that the OP start over with a new thread. Ask the "experts" what they think went on and listen to the responses. Ask for suggestions about how to counter it. Then try it out. (Or ideally, run the build yourself for a bit to see how it works.)

I used to have the optimism that humanity would help someone if they asked, but that's been proven wrong many times before. There's a reason I don't bother asking for help, it's just the typical: "git gud" or common advice that is completely useless. Basically a majority of threads asking for advice/help are ignored in many communities.

The problem is you're looking for a magic bullet mixed with a nerf to the other classes when at the end of the day it IS about self improvement. Its about better learning the class you want to play and how it can and cannot counter other builds and accepting that there is no single loadout that will counter all other builds.

[Warlyx.6732]

What? Guardians are actuallly at the top :o

[lothefallen.7081]

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:

@BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:Well i'm a Guardian so there's 0 chance of killing the guy. Also I tried battling shortly after. I have a habit of standing there with immobilization, to add a bit of dramatic effect. The difference is the immobilizations continued stacking, so even after I cleansed it didn't matter. Full health and the immobilizations continued, on top of Daze and other ridiculous things. I activated maybe two or three skills and was already done.

That's just broken.

Wei Qi near full ascended gear and my character goes down like butter, even with a -10% incoming damage signet. Either that class is beyond broken, or Guardians are beyond useless.

A few thing to note Guardian/Dragonhunter counter Thief -10% damage Signet doesn't reduce Condi damage which is what you were facing a Condi Build most likely Pistol/Dagger.

DH has some of the best traits and skills to cleanse Condi especially Immob, can't really give to many specifics since we don't know your build, but there are a few builds that work extremely well against Thieves both power and Condi, the main one is Meditrapper both the Variants one using Pack Runes or the one using Durability Runes.

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Dragonhunter_-_Meditrapper_roamer

This is more of a learning issue and figuring out mechanics.

"Signet Passive: -10% incoming Damage, -10% Incoming Condition Damage". Yeah it does reduce condition damage.

I stand corrected, I haven't looked at that Signet in a long time. But even in that case that's only 10% reduction which is very low in the grand scheme of things.

I won't disagree about that. Guardians have some of THE most useless skills in the entire game. 30 second cooldowns, pointless CC that's ineffective. Burst that is done better on every other class. The only thing Guardians are known for is some questionable bunker build (which is done way better by another profession now btw) and Empower on the staff. I've never experienced more frustration with ArenaNet about a profession. This is THE WORST profession, and ArenaNet doesn't seem interested at all about fixing each type of build the Guardian can use.

It honestly seems like a L2P issue. I run the Sword / Shield / Longbow DH Trapper build in PvP and have no trouble hard-countering thieves. Of course, there are a lot of factors that go into how a player recognizes their efficacy in a pvp gameplay situation, I find myself getting a bad attitude about a class or situation when I don't understand it well enough. I used to feel like D/D Venom Thief was useless in PvP because I kept getting ganked until I actually learned how to execute the rotation and predict as well as escape from a failed gank. The DH build took a bit of playing to get down as well and I'm still not the best at it, but I have no trouble with thieves unless the player themself is just a lot better than me mechanically.

[Almighty Dervisher.6720]

@lothefallen.7081 said:It honestly seems like a L2P issue. I run the Sword / Shield / Longbow DH Trapper build in PvP and have no trouble hard-countering thieves. Of course, there are a lot of factors that go into how a player recognizes their efficacy in a pvp gameplay situation, I find myself getting a bad attitude about a class or situation when I don't understand it well enough. I used to feel like D/D Venom Thief was useless in PvP because I kept getting ganked until I actually learned how to execute the rotation and predict as well as escape from a failed gank. The DH build took a bit of playing to get down as well and I'm still not the best at it, but I have no trouble with thieves unless the player themself is just a lot better than me mechanically.

I don't have much doubt that when I get DH Guardian, it's going to feel OP and a huge difference in defense/damage. More availability of skills will simply improve the profession tenfold. For now i'm making/learning the use of wall of reflection and it's had more success than i've ever had in WvW other than cheesing Meditation against some players one time.

[Almighty Dervisher.6720]

@PookieDaWombat.6209 said:The problem is you're looking for a magic bullet mixed with a nerf to the other classes when at the end of the day it IS about self improvement. Its about better learning the class you want to play and how it can and cannot counter other builds and accepting that there is no single loadout that will counter all other builds.

Yeah unfortunately that capability is in Guild Wars, but not Guild Wars 2. Can't run a Dervish and have an answer to almost anything, and simply out sustain the other player(s). Speaking of Dervish, still waiting on Anet's announcement of them coming to GW2 haha. If that happens, and they do it right, i'm throwing my wallet at ArenaNet.

[Leo G.4501]

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:Could do reflection but that doesn't solve actually getting to that person and doing damage, which is something guardian lacks completely.

Sword?

[Almighty Dervisher.6720]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:Could do reflection but that doesn't solve actually getting to that person and doing damage, which is something guardian lacks completely.

Sword?

Yeah but ehhh... I have a lot of difficulty doing any damage with a melee weapon in general. Especially sword.

[PookieDaWombat.6209]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@Almighty Dervisher.6720 said:Could do reflection but that doesn't solve actually getting to that person and doing damage, which is something guardian lacks completely.

Sword?

And shield.

And sword has a gap closer which also blinds. And an auto attack that wrecks. Yeah.