Virtuoso Aoe Combo; Move over Epidemic

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

So it takes an entire combo to replace one utility skill...seems like i would very much stick with epidemic at that point. Besides necros provides more then what Virtuosos can with barriers dmg etc.

Sad they nerfed epidemic tho,...but again...multiple skills....vs one utility....I'm no math genius but I'm pretty sure I would use the one utility vs combo.

Virtuoso can run inspiration and output aegis if they want, with minimal impact on dps. 

[Salt Mode.3780]

20 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Virtuoso can run inspiration and output aegis if they want, with minimal impact on dps. 

Again trait dedication, combo...vs 1 utility skill....

[Xaylin.1860]

7 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Virtuoso can run inspiration and output aegis if they want, with minimal impact on dps. 

I think your enthusiasm for Virtuoso is great and in the end being happy and having fun with your class is probably the most important part of playing a game long term. At least to me. However, this is getting ridiculous. From the click-baity titles to the inconsistent and reptitively factually wrong argumentation...

 

• Yes, the combo you mention is quite potent. However, it has been there since the beta with only minor changes. This is also true for the "snowball-effect" you can create with blades and Bloodsong. It is great that you point it out to newer players. But it's just a burst and balancewise, or when it comes to the desirability of the spec in specific gamemodes, this will do mostly nothing. In most scenarios where bursts are beneficial (e.g. PvP) Virutoso currently lacks sustain and the ability to disengage. Mesmers got Blink and occasional stealth but are no Rangers or Thieves.
• Picking Inspiration is always a significant damage loss. Maybe unless you switched out of Chaos or due to some reason only had defensive or supportive traits equipped or overcapped on something to begin with. Always. Regardless, this argument is not pro Virtuoso but pro Mesmer. It might have been a selling point for F4 on Virtuoso if Inspiring Distortion had not been nerfed into oblivion or we coincidentally could just pick the Signet trait to compensate for the CD on other specs.

 

I appretiate your positivity but flodding the forums with inaccurate information doesn't really help the class nor the spec. It is a bit irritating and I have to admit that I can understand the reaction and frustration of others towards you.

[Levetty.1279]

20 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

i hold 3 of the top post in the first page,

Because you keep making threads for no reason and then keep spamming in said threads.

[Mell.4873]

17 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

I think your enthusiasm for Virtuoso is great and in the end being happy and having fun with your class is probably the most important part of playing a game long term. At least to me. However, this is getting ridiculous. From the click-baity titles to the inconsistent and reptitively factually wrong argumentation...

 

• Yes, the combo you mention is quite potent. However, it has been there since the beta with only minor changes. This is also true for the "snowball-effect" you can create with blades and Bloodsong. It is great that you point it out to newer players. But it's just a burst and balancewise, or when it comes to the desirability of the spec in specific gamemodes, this will do mostly nothing. In most scenarios where bursts are beneficial (e.g. PvP) Virutoso currently lacks sustain and the ability to disengage. Mesmers got Blink and occasional stealth but are no Rangers or Thieves.
• Picking Inspiration is always a significant damage loss. Maybe unless you switched out of Chaos or due to some reason only had defensive or supportive traits equipped or overcapped on something to begin with. Always. Regardless, this argument is not pro Virtuoso but pro Mesmer. It might have been a selling point for F4 on Virtuoso if Inspiring Distortion had not been nerfed into oblivion or we coincidentally could just pick the Signet trait to compensate for the CD on other specs.

 

I appretiate your positivity but flodding the forums with inaccurate information doesn't really help the class nor the spec. It is a bit irritating and I have to admit that I can understand the reaction and frustration of others towards you.

Thanks for your reply.

Most of Condi Virtuosos damage comes from the Virtuoso trait line with every blade attack applying bleed. The next trait line that adds the most damage is illusions then finally Dueling with Chaos being a close third.

This is primarily due to the synergy of Bleed + Power damage, a true hybrid. Hence why Dueling is better than Chaos in the snowcrow Condi build. By swapping out Dueling out for Inspiration you lose a little bit of bleed on illusions(phantasms) and you don't get potential pistol bleed trait. This doesn't really effect the burst rather the sustain.

Over all you will lose roughly 20% sustain and almost no burst, But gain 1k HPS in a group and you basically become immune to damage; with both Signet of Either activating and Illusionary Inspiration trait can give you 500 self HPS.

7 hours ago, Levetty.1279 said:

Because you keep making threads for no reason and then keep spamming in said threads.

True 🙂

Edited March 26, 2022 by Mell.4873

[Xaylin.1860]

15 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

This is primarily due to the synergy of Bleed + Power damage, a true hybrid. Hence why Dueling is better than Chaos in the snowcrow Condi build. By swapping out Dueling out for Inspiration you lose a little bit of bleed on illusions(phantasms) and you don't get potential pistol bleed trait. This doesn't really effect the burst rather the sustain.

So you conveniently don't count the damage from Duelling as damage because it is not connected to blades? Not even the potential confusion damage? Or additional critical damage. Okay.

 

I'll repeat regardless: Picking Inspiration is always a damage loss. And in most cases this damage loss is significant. Take it or leave it. 

[Mell.4873]

7 hours ago, Xaylin.1860 said:

So you conveniently don't count the damage from Duelling as damage because it is not connected to blades? Not even the potential confusion damage? Or additional critical damage. Okay.

 

I'll repeat regardless: Picking Inspiration is always a damage loss. And in most cases this damage loss is significant. Take it or leave it. 

Not really golem numbers are about 5k difference so 35k, most of your damage comes from blades procing bleed and none of the other trait lines dont add that much damage. 

The biggest problem with Dueling is get value out of most of the traits you need get the target below 50% or summon your phantasmal swordsmen. This all takes some which is why said burst was not affected by the Dueling what so ever.

Atleast compounding power from the Illusion trait line triggers on Bladesongs. While nothing in the Dueling tree does. 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Mell.4873

[SeTect.5918]

47 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

The biggest problem with Dueling is get value out of most of the traits you need get the target below 50% or summon your phantasmal swordsmen. This all takes some which is why said burst was not affected by the Dueling what so ever.

Uhm. Wait.
The only traits that have to do with "below 50%"....are....uhm....sorry.
The only trait that has to do with "below 50%" is Superiority_Complex. But it also gives a bonus if enemy is above 50%.

Also summoning the Phantasmal swordsmen doesnt reduce ur burst damage because you wont enter the fight until the swordmen are hitting the target, so summoning them without hitting the target wont reduce your damage.

Also why going for burst damage on 3 enemies?
Nice that u can deal good burst damage on 3 mobs, but how does that help anyone anywhere, normal mobs die in 1-3 seconds. You wont need a special setup to kill trash mobs.
With quickness firebrand i was able to do 30k burst damage without any boon support and on just 1 enemy.

Even better, on multiple enemies, I was able to do 72k dps for the whole fight on a boss with ads. - with quickness firebrand.

Burst damage will always be high on multiple enemies and so will also be your constant dps (except if u r single target only like deadeye).

I mean this is nothing special tbh. Especially in fractals where you get +15% dmg buff by potions. And with 180 AR also 13% crit chance.
I also think that on condi, most of your burst dps comes from strike damage too. So you will feel the additional crit chance on ur burst damage.

The reason why condi Mirage has so low burst damage is because of the clones which deal no strike damage at all.
Virtuoso has no clones so obvious it will have higher burst damage and thats maybe why it satisfies you, however its still not a lot tbh.

Edited March 26, 2022 by SeTect.5918

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Uhm. Wait.
The only traits that have to do with "below 50%"....are....uhm....sorry.
The only trait that has to do with "below 50%" is Superiority_Complex. But it also gives a bonus if enemy is above 50%.
 

True and I guess you do get a flat 15% critical damage then a further 10% but if you check arc most of your damage comes from bleed and then the auto attack so not even the F1 does that much strike damage.

9 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Also summoning the Phantasmal swordsmen doesnt reduce ur burst damage because you wont enter the fight until the swordmen are hitting the target, so summoning them without hitting the target wont reduce your damage.

Yes and no, the cast time the problem. I spend most of my time spamming Temporal Curtain to group targets up and then using the dagger skill + All Bladesongs. The rotations doesn't really need a long cast time phantasmal swordsmen which is why I normally run pistol.

9 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

Also summoning the Phantasmal swordsmen doesnt reduce ur burst damage because you wont enter the fight until the swordmen are hitting the target, so summoning them without hitting the target wont reduce your damage.

Also why going for burst damage on 3 enemies?
Nice that u can deal good burst damage on 3 mobs, but how does that help anyone anywhere, normal mobs die in 1-3 seconds. You wont need a special setup to kill trash mobs.
With quickness firebrand i was able to do 30k burst damage without any boon support and on just 1 enemy.

Even better, on multiple enemies, I was able to do 72k dps for the whole fight on a boss with ads. - with quickness firebrand.

Burst damage will always be high on multiple enemies and so will also be your constant dps (except if u r single target only like deadeye).

This is a Open World PvE build so that is why I'm healing as well. I mean the main reason this works is because its consistent, the rotation doesn't rely on any set up skills so you can just spam everything while trying to group everything up ever 20 seconds.

9 hours ago, SeTect.5918 said:

I mean this is nothing special tbh. Especially in fractals where you get +15% dmg buff by potions. And with 180 AR also 13% crit chance.
I also think that on condi, most of your burst dps comes from strike damage too. So you will feel the additional crit chance on ur burst damage.

The reason why condi Mirage has so low burst damage is because of the clones which deal no strike damage at all.
Virtuoso has no clones so obvious it will have higher burst damage and thats maybe why it satisfies you, however its still not a lot tbh.

I agree so this exactly why i run dueling for fractals 🙂. I run mostly the snowcrow build, i believe i have a little more condition damage and duration rather than 100% critical chance.