Dragon's End Meta is Garbage

[The Boz.2038]

6 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

Well...I have to say my tought on this, because on my part I run the same build everywhere.

Care to share what that looks like?  

6 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

Asking people to adapt their stuff for OW isn't the right curve to follow, most people play with a mindset and a vision of their character, not everyone run with full legendary gear so they can change buils every 2sec. I personally find it toxic even, quite boring.

Why wouldn't "this boss needs CC, bring some CC" be a valid factor? Nobody's asking you to change your entire gear, stat-set or runes for the one encounter...

6 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

EDIT: on the other hand this is where the difficulty is : what happen to a player that want to play big support style with almost 0 DPS. He actually can't play alone or unless he is very patient ( I tried it so I can tell by experience )

I agree with this *so hard*. Was amazed that they went and designed Specter after what they supposedly learned with the Druid, but at least they changed it kinda quickly, and it isn't *as painful* as Druid is to play... Impossible to get support experience on, sure, but at least it works and has strengths.

[Erise.5614]

17 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

of course is going to play an impact in an MMO, you need to prolong your game's life span and give players incentive to play UP and gear UP. 

I'm not sure if we're even talking about the same game!?

GW2 never had a gear treadmill. It's all about the fashion wars and convenience gimmicks. Not a stat hunt. 

If you want infinite gear grinds, may I recommend WoW? I hear they are quite good at putting out power creep as carrot on sticks in front of players. To keep grinding onwards forever.

But Guild Wars has done excellently without. While every push towards hardcore content was met with disinterest by large parts of the audience and a downturn in players and revenue. 

Edited March 30, 2022 by Erise.5614

[Mithrilos.8036]

2 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Care to share what that looks like?  

Why wouldn't "this boss needs CC, bring some CC" be a valid factor? Nobody's asking you to change your entire gear, stat-set or runes for the one encounter...

I agree with this *so hard*. Was amazed that they went and designed Specter after what they supposedly learned with the Druid, but at least they changed it kinda quickly, and it isn't *as painful* as Druid is to play... Impossible to get support experience on, sure, but at least it works and has strengths.

 

First off, no I'm not going to share you my build, because you are trying to judge the credibility of what I'm saying via my gearings.

All I can say is that I focus on "always ready for everything" so yeah... I have offense-defense and CC ready I don't "need" to change anything as long as I stay in story and OW maps which is where I spend 90% of my playtime.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, Erise.5614 said:

Not the point. My point was that if you fellas could have your way you'd rather overscale everything and kill the community rather than acknowledging the shortcomings the game has teaching what's necessary. . 

Having a single meta event above the level of mashing 1 is "us having our way"? How many events in open world require you to do anything other than turn on auto attack and eat your sandwiches while whatever you hit dies in no time? In EoD they added 4 Strikes. FOUR, 2 of them barely even hit the level of T1 Fractals.

That's us having our way? People have been complaining about the meta for a MONTH at this point, because at the start it truly was hard. Anet has been nerfing the meta, making the turtle easier to get, that's YOU having your way.

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

First off, no I'm not going to share you my build, because you are trying to judge the credibility of what I'm saying via my gearings.

All I can say is that I focus on "always ready for everything" so yeah... I have offense-defense and CC ready I don't "need" to change anything as long as I stay in story and OW maps which is where I spend 90% of my playtime.

I wasn't trying to do that. I wanted to see what you, as an average open world player, walks around with, and what someone might demand, reasonably or not, that you change. Why would you immediately jump to "you want to judge me", though?

[Mithrilos.8036]

Just now, The Boz.2038 said:

I wasn't trying to do that. I wanted to see what you, as an average open world player, walks around with, and what someone might demand, reasonably or not, that you change. Why would you immediately jump to "you want to judge me", though?

 

I'm confident that I don't run a build that is "Meta" for the average player. Because I don't run Berserker stats in every characters.

But this is another talk. Hell I'm saying this but nowadays people are all on about Condition gears.

 

I'm seing people flying around with their skyscale as a speed of light deleting elite mobs at the same speed. They certainly arn't in Knight stat gears mmh mmh.

[kankanKk.2748]

24 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

EDIT: on the other hand this is where the difficulty is : what happen to a player that want to play big support style with almost 0 DPS. He actually can't play alone or unless he is very patient ( I tried it so I can tell by experience )

Support doesnt mean playing minstrel gear.

Most of the support can be very offensive and 20k+dps.

[Erise.5614]

Just now, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Having a single meta event above the level of mashing 1 is "us having our way"? How many events in open world require you to do anything other than turn on auto attack and eat your sandwiches while whatever you hit dies in no time? In EoD they added 4 Strikes. FOUR, 2 of them barely even hit the level of T1 Fractals.

That's us having our way? People have been complaining about the meta for a MONTH at this point, because at the start it truly was hard. Anet has been nerfing the meta, making the turtle easier to get, that's YOU having your way.

Once again. This is an absurd, bad faith strawman. 

Basically all metas since old school world bosses require far more than pressing 1.

And the challenge with DE isn't related to gameplay at all. 

Framing this as our or your way is already a problem. My original point was making fun of the absurd strawman put forward, once again, by the boz.

Now, two points here. Strike CMs are on their way with specific release dates. Jfc, and you call others impatient. 

But secondly. Yes. Even now it's too steep a curve. This is not how you teach players anything. This is how you drive them away. If you ever want more challenging content your focus should be on making it either as cheap as possible for ANet to make or on having as many people reach that level of gameplay and making the experience for everyone as pleasant as possible.

DE ain't it. Not even strikes are it. They are almost there but the instadeath mechanics (laser covering two circles in Hideout, Pushy AOE fields in Junkyard, Robot laser in Outlook and orb trail in Harvest Temple to name just one example for each).

Just to clarify. This is not me having my way. Nerfs, even additional nerfs to DE in another month, are predictable results due to poor design and lack of consideration on ANets side. The designers over there have pretty much agreed with you fellas since forever. Trying to do more. But realizing that it's too expensive. They are loosing too much.

Dragon's End is the same mistake they made with Chak, PoF metas, Tequatl, Triple Trouble and plenty of other content. Designing it for a much more hardcore audience than they really have and then having to backpaddle hard to compensate. Or abandoning it out right accepting it doesn't get done by the majority of players.

I want better ramps of difficulty so they can invest in difficult content. But that starts with standardization across encounters, obvious presentation of what's expected and making sure people knowingly enter content with the right assumptions. 

[Mithrilos.8036]

Just now, kankanKk.2748 said:

Support doesnt mean playing minstrel gear.

Most of the support can be very offensive and 20k+dps.

Well I'm still wondering about how efficient healing stat is, I don't really know if cleric people actually use this stat.

[Mithrilos.8036]

5 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

Well I'm still wondering about how efficient healing stat is, I don't really know if cleric people actually use this stat.

EDIT :

Also It has been on since the beginning of the game, that people try to clear content as fast as they can, people has less and less time to play, want to do things and go next. And right now the game isn't slowing down at all, with the addition of flying mounts, people are faster than ever, so yeah : I'm pretty confident that a majority of the player base is more 80% offense geared than anything else, which is also why you see so much people insta downed at the first Soo Won strike.

 

I'm not saying its a bad thing, its just the game & society is pushing everyone to go faster and faster.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036

[Erise.5614]

9 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I wasn't trying to do that. I wanted to see what you, as an average open world player, walks around with, and what someone might demand, reasonably or not, that you change. Why would you immediately jump to "you want to judge me", though?

Might have something to do with your other comments in this thread. Just a thought^^

I would also assume that the only reason you ask is to attack and deride them. Something in the line of "look at this. Of course it fails. No one with that kind of build should ever expect to succeed!"

But there you go. That's one of mine. 

https://gw2efficiency.com/c/Aera Healscourge

[&DQgnNjI1PCp+FqIAgABwAZkBdgByFuQAkgCVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]

Again. I'm 4 out of 17. What can I do here to consistently beat DE? Outside of grinding 250LI or exclusively doing it with my guild.

[Mithrilos.8036]

Also saying that nobody will ask me to change my full set of gear is wrong. 

You just need to see the LFG overall. Even on OW meta. The gear racism still exist in this game.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036

[The Boz.2038]

4 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

But there you go. That's one of mine. 

https://gw2efficiency.com/c/Aera Healscourge

[&DQgnNjI1PCp+FqIAgABwAZkBdgByFuQAkgCVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]

Again. I'm 4 out of 17. What can I do here to consistently beat DE? Outside of grinding 250LI or exclusively doing it with my guild.

That looks like a fairly standard condi scourge build. The most you could do, if you want to see how to max your chances in the build department, is consider replacing SR with BM, so you can instarez the downed players with F4 and Well of Blood. But eh, not an emergency switch.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

 

37 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

Asking people to adapt their stuff for OW isn't the right curve to follow, most people play with a mindset and a vision of their character,

Then how on earth are you going to design any meaningful encounters if you cannot demand anything from your players. 

 

39 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

not everyone run with full legendary gear so they can change buils every 2sec

Ascended gear's being vomited at you from every direction.

[NorthernRedStar.3054]

29 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

I'm not sure if we're even talking about the same game!?

GW2 never had a gear treadmill. It's all about the fashion wars and convenience gimmicks. Not a stat hunt. 

If you want infinite gear grinds, may I recommend WoW? I hear they are quite good at putting out power creep as carrot on sticks in front of players. To keep grinding onwards forever.

But Guild Wars has done excellently without. While every push towards hardcore content was met with disinterest by large parts of the audience and a downturn in players and revenue. 

I didn't realize GW2 had gotten rid of gear completely. Wo-ow.

[Mithrilos.8036]

24 minutes ago, NorthernRedStar.3054 said:

 

Then how on earth are you going to design any meaningful encounters if you cannot demand anything from your players. 

 

Ascended gear's being vomited at you from every direction.

I do believe that the majority of OW pve content should be doable with an average build, and the game should lead the player into naturally choosing that said builds.

 

Also I don't understand your last statement.

Since you said you are not going to judge : https://gw2efficiency.com/c/Allegra Hammerclaw

there...I've been playing with this character and build for 9 years, done the story 5 times and I'm playing OW without much trouble. its a pretty classic build... as it should be

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036

[The Boz.2038]

33 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

I'm not sure if we're even talking about the same game!?

GW2 never had a gear treadmill. It's all about the fashion wars and convenience gimmicks. Not a stat hunt. 

If you want infinite gear grinds, may I recommend WoW? I hear they are quite good at putting out power creep as carrot on sticks in front of players. To keep grinding onwards forever.

The fact that gee dubs isn't a gear grind goes against your point here: once you get your best-in-slot-for-role stuff, you are free to, maybe, optionally, think about getting a set of best-in-slot gear for another type of role that you might play?

[yann.1946]

 

9 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Might have something to do with your other comments in this thread. Just a thought^^

I would also assume that the only reason you ask is to attack and deride them. Something in the line of "look at this. Of course it fails. No one with that kind of build should ever expect to succeed!"

I know im jumping in to the middle, but im personally really curious, what was said in the thread by boz that gave the imprission?

9 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

But there you go. That's one of mine. 

https://gw2efficiency.com/c/Aera Healscourge

[&DQgnNjI1PCp+FqIAgABwAZkBdgByFuQAkgCVAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA=]

 

9 minutes ago, Erise.5614 said:

Again. I'm 4 out of 17. What can I do here to consistently beat DE? Outside of grinding 250LI or exclusively doing it with my guild.

Personally i dont see a problem with just doing it with ones guild. (in the end my main reason for thinking events like ED should exist is the increase of guilds around these events.)

 

If you want to consistently beat it, you could command a squad of your own (probably with some thoughts in how  boons are generated, which doesnt mean asking people to change builds, just ask who can provide alac and quick for example.)

I do understand that that is a pretty high bar to pass and a lot of work to do.

 

Lastly, because i do DE mostly without LI req groups, do these groups hactually have an higher succes percentage?

[The Boz.2038]

2 minutes ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

I do believe that the majority of OW pve content should be doable with an average build, and the game should lead the player into naturally choosing that said builds.

Majority of OW PvE is doable with an average build. The game does a kitten-poor job of leading players to set up average-functional builds that make sense, but I value "free to make own build" way too much to hold that against it.

However, you said majority. Most of. And I agree.

But maybe there should be an inkling of content here and there that requires you to flex and reach and grow to meet the challenge? And so far we've had that in OW in the form of, what, two hero points in HoT and this one single meta? Is it really wrong for this meta to be a challenge?

[ugrakarma.9416]

last patch mentions something about "more friendly" its more easier now? no?

[Mithrilos.8036]

Just now, The Boz.2038 said:

Majority of OW PvE is doable with an average build. The game does a kitten-poor job of leading players to set up average-functional builds that make sense, but I value "free to make own build" way too much to hold that against it.

However, you said majority. Most of. And I agree.

But maybe there should be an inkling of content here and there that requires you to flex and reach and grow to meet the challenge? And so far we've had that in OW in the form of, what, two hero points in HoT and this one single meta? Is it really wrong for this meta to be a challenge?

 

I prefere to naturally think that I need to change something because my build is not fine "enough" than being told that I must change something. its actually very important. I'm not the kind of player that like to watch what other do and being pampered. Nowadays a lot of player don't even try to do their build, they just watch youtube and blindly follow what they are being told.

 

I'm not like that, I did my build follwing my playstyle and what I needed after all those years

[The Boz.2038]

1 minute ago, Mithrilos.8036 said:

I'm not like that, I did my build follwing my playstyle and what I needed after all those years

Okay. And you can tackle most of OW with it, no problems. 
You ran into a speed bump now, in the form of the DE meta. What do you think you should change?
Again, no idea what your build has, other than probably some Knight pieces, as you've mentioned them...

I love to make my own builds, too. 90% of the builds I play I made myself. By process of convergent evolution, I sometimes end up at something that's meta. I fully get the desire and joy of making a build yourself, and doing it your way. 

[Mithrilos.8036]

3 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Okay. And you can tackle most of OW with it, no problems. 
You ran into a speed bump now, in the form of the DE meta. What do you think you should change?
Again, no idea what your build has, other than probably some Knight pieces, as you've mentioned them...

I love to make my own builds, too. 90% of the builds I play I made myself. By process of convergent evolution, I sometimes end up at something that's meta. I fully get the desire and joy of making a build yourself, and doing it your way. 

I linked it, but it seems you missed it.

 

I can't take the full responsibility for the DE difficulty just because I'm playing my build. Its a teamwork thing.

 

Also I'm confident that my build is good, on the DE meta I never dies, dodge zone efficiently and do my part. its frustrating when we all lose, but again. I'm confident that with time victory will be more common on this map.

Edited March 30, 2022 by Mithrilos.8036

[The Boz.2038]

Missed it, it was in an edit.
Says API invalid, though. 

[Mithrilos.8036]

1 minute ago, The Boz.2038 said:

Missed it, it was in an edit.
Says API invalid, though. 

mmmh. https://gw2efficiency.com/account/character/Allegra Hammerclaw

And now ? I'm not going to spam it everywhere. if it fail, forget it.