I am very disappointed in the "Balance Patch"

[Hackuuna.4085]

Seeing what happened to thief UC I'm fully expecting Mirage to get similar treatment in regards to the stunbreak part of Elusive Mind. I guess be happy that you get to play with Elusive Mind a little more and all that happened was some buffs/bug fixes.

[Miroe.2054]

@Levetty.1279 said:The absolute state of this post, I hate it when people purposefully try and confuse and bend conversations instead of talking in good faith. I don't even know where to start so heres just random thoughts that popped into my head while reading it.You quoted me and then instead of referring to anything I said you complained about something roughly in the same direction leaving me to tie the conversation back together.

@Levetty.1279 said:Yes, mirrors are the only thing that comes close to a new mechanic on this 'elite spec' and the basic design has been tried various times in this game. Running around to collect pick ups does not work in this game and it has been pointed out every time they have tried it.Everything works if you just change the numbers. If you got 25might for 10 seconds for collecting a mirror, the reward would definitely be worth the effort and it would "work" for you.

@Levetty.1279 said:If that was the case why did they redesign all the warrior adrenaline traits so that they no longer had to chose between saving it for passive buffs or using their burst skill?I would guess because of the stale gameplay of a warrior who doesnt use his adrenaline. As a phantasm mesmer who doesnt shatter you have to manage the phantasms targets while surviving as a light armor class. Maybe Anet will decide to rework the phantasms but if they do it wont be because its literally unplayable as you are claiming but rather to make an already interesting class more interesting. (And I can tell you, there are people who really enjoy the current phantasm mesmer in PvE)

@Levetty.1279 said:Chronophantasma is a Chrono trait. Its also vastly overrated as a 'fix' to this problem as its little more then a illusion generation trait or a way to use Continuum shift at the start of a fight.It lets you eat your cake and have it too. Look, this decision between ramp and burst has been a core part of the mesmer since the very launch. If you don't like it, ask one of the many players who made it work for themselves or play another class. Don't waste your energy yelling at a tomato that it's not the kind of fruit you want.

@Levetty.1279 said:If not making a new mechanic for the elite spec allowed them to focus on the concept of the class why have we just ended up with another dueling spec that plays exactly like core Mesmer?Because core mesmer has a lower power level to the elite spec meta and can effectively not be played. Also Mirage has a lot more game at close range than core mesmer.

@Levetty.1279 said:Yes I would prefer if Mesmer elite specs were like other elite specs and not just a sub par trait line with a new weapon attached. It doesn't always have to be rework for shatters, it can be a new shatter like Chorno, it can be reworks to clones or Phantasms, it could be some new mode you can enter like Druid or Holosmith hell they could even make some SoulPhantasm spec.For every new elite spec there are people who are overwhelmed like you. Mirage is very similar in that way. Anet has decided to rework our dodges instead of clones or phantasms or shatters. If that is somehow fundamentally worse than a new shatter, follow your superior judgement and return to the chrono.

@Levetty.1279 said:They didn't even start with a feel for the spec, they had a name and an art asset, threw an axe on top and then went about making 100 new skills for ele.A concept that is more difficult to execute does not translate into a better elite spec. The Spellbreaker concept is super simple yet people love it. The concept for Soulbeast is very complicated and many of my friend decided to stay with druid.

[Levetty.1279]

@Miroe.2054 said:

@Levetty.1279 said:The absolute state of this post, I hate it when people purposefully try and confuse and bend conversations instead of talking in good faith. I don't even know where to start so heres just random thoughts that popped into my head while reading it.You quoted me and then instead of referring to anything I said you complained about something roughly in the same direction leaving me to tie the conversation back together.

Yeah not reading past there, trying to spin around things you have done on somebody else is disgusting behavior. Go troll elsewhere.

[Sodeni.6041]

@dude.2950 said:This balance patch was mostly bug fixes and adjustments for mirage. So basically prior to releasing POF here was the balance patch for mesmer;Reduce greatsword phantasmal cast time.Took 3months for this balance.I guess alot of people are happy because there were no nerfs for mirage. But no changes to core or chronomancer. Gonna have to wait for another 3-4 months I guess

I would be perfectly fine if those patches that take 3 to 4 months (!) would actually be big and inpactful. But this patch is just a joke! Bugfixes and 1/4 sec less cast time on a skill...

[Sodeni.6041]

@Miroe.2054 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:Anet hasn't adressed any of the

mirage's core issues

. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage.

What's the issue with any of these? You don't need to take any of the 4 sources of mirror. And False Oasis heals/time almost as much as a fully charged aether feast and that's without the vigor and without the mirror. They are visually cool little bonuses for spare mobility. And Mirage has spare mobility.

Mirage gives no specific support to phantasm builds just as chronomancer gives no specific support to condition stacking builds.

And how is not having one more shatter skill an issue? Because it doesn't match your interpretation of mesmer elite specs?

Sorry you got disappointed though. Try out a working Mirage build and if you still writhe in disgust, maybe it's just not the spec for you.

The problem is that Anet forced a spec upon a design idea and not around mechanics. That's why mirage feels just like an upgrade to core mesmer. Mirrors should have been a better implemented mechanic and in its current form its very unfun. Infinite Horizon should have been the core trait of the mirage, thus should be baseline. Because of IH, phantasms lack synergy with the mirage and should have been changed slightly. A lot of people are also disappointed of not having new f-abilities or at least an f5 like every other elite spec (except scrapper). For example Illusionary Ambush would have been a great f-5 skill.

[Sodeni.6041]

@Cwnannwn.7681 said:Honestly my biggest gripe with mirage is still that superseed won't work on strafes; losing left and right dodges is a much worse tradeoff than losing back dodge.

Absolutely! Anet should consider this and change it.> @Curunen.8729 said:

I think the reality is you've just got to enjoy the game for what it is right now and not expect anything more. What we've got is what we're stuck with, beyond minor tweaks.

I gotta say I think you're right. I am a "fanboy" of the mesmer and just want the mirage to have a great niche and identity but I think I have to realise that it will stay in its current state pretty much forever.

[Sojourner.4621]

@Sodeni.6041 said:

@Miroe.2054 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:Anet hasn't adressed any of the

mirage's core issues

. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage.

What's the issue with any of these? You don't need to take any of the 4 sources of mirror. And False Oasis heals/time almost as much as a fully charged aether feast and that's without the vigor and without the mirror. They are visually cool little bonuses for spare mobility. And Mirage has spare mobility.

Mirage gives no specific support to phantasm builds just as chronomancer gives no specific support to condition stacking builds.

And how is not having one more shatter skill an issue? Because it doesn't match your interpretation of mesmer elite specs?

Sorry you got disappointed though. Try out a working Mirage build and if you still writhe in disgust, maybe it's just not the spec for you.

The problem is that Anet forced a spec upon a design idea and not around mechanics. That's why mirage feels just like an upgrade to core mesmer. Mirrors should have been a better implemented mechanic and in its current form its very unfun. Infinite Horizon should have been the core trait of the mirage, thus should be baseline. Because of IH, phantasms lack synergy with the mirage and should have been changed slightly. A lot of people are also disappointed of not having new f-abilities or at least an f5 like every other elite spec (except scrapper). For example Illusionary Ambush would have been a great f-5 skill.And Daredevil... and Weaver... I dis-included Reaper even though I probably should not... the function of the f-skill is identical even if the implementation of what it gives you is not.

The point still stands that Mirage is UNQUESTIONABLY a competitive DPS spec in its current state. You want to believe that mirrors are the only new mechanic implemented (yes the dodge has basically been just turned in to another distort) but the ambushes ARE a new mechanic whether you recognize it or not, and contribute a significant portion of damage to the spec. Is the complaint that it's not a power DPS spec? Condi is the meta, and at that particular meta it currently outperforms a lot of other specs. Power Thief before the removal of GotL was the bottom tier DPS spec, now like power necro it probably won't have any place in raids at all. Mirage out damages power thief by at minimum 5k and more realistically probably 8-9k.

Small Hitbox:

Large Hitbox:

[Carighan.6758]

@Mikeskies.1536 said:Has this build been tested sans Fencer's Finesse and on a small hitbox while not standing inside of it?

Why without it? Is it bugged currently?

[rank eleven monk.9502]

FYI for people who don't like the mirror mechanic: just because you think it's clunky / useless / can't use it properly, it does not mean it's a bad concept that should be changed.

In PVP, mirrors are VERY useful IF you are very well aware of your environment and combat events. Yes, it requires more attention, but if you like gimmick mechanics, go play Scourge. You have to adapt to the mechanic but it isn't necessarily a bad thing.

[OriOri.8724]

@Sojourner.4621 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:

@Miroe.2054 said:

@Sodeni.6041 said:Anet hasn't adressed any of the

mirage's core issues

. No rework to mirrors, no rework of phantasms as a mirage, no adjustments to shatter skills as a mirage.

What's the issue with any of these? You don't need to take any of the 4 sources of mirror. And False Oasis heals/time almost as much as a fully charged aether feast and that's without the vigor and without the mirror. They are visually cool little bonuses for spare mobility. And Mirage has spare mobility.

Mirage gives no specific support to phantasm builds just as chronomancer gives no specific support to condition stacking builds.

And how is not having one more shatter skill an issue? Because it doesn't match your interpretation of mesmer elite specs?

Sorry you got disappointed though. Try out a working Mirage build and if you still writhe in disgust, maybe it's just not the spec for you.

The problem is that Anet forced a spec upon a design idea and not around mechanics. That's why mirage feels just like an upgrade to core mesmer. Mirrors should have been a better implemented mechanic and in its current form its very unfun. Infinite Horizon should have been the core trait of the mirage, thus should be baseline. Because of IH, phantasms lack synergy with the mirage and should have been changed slightly. A lot of people are also disappointed of not having new f-abilities or at least an f5 like every other elite spec (except scrapper). For example Illusionary Ambush would have been a great f-5 skill.And Daredevil... and Weaver... I dis-included Reaper even though I probably should not... the function of the f-skill is identical even if the implementation of what it gives you is not.

The point still stands that Mirage is UNQUESTIONABLY a competitive DPS spec in its current state. You want to believe that mirrors are the only new mechanic implemented (yes the dodge has basically been just turned in to another distort) but the ambushes ARE a new mechanic whether you recognize it or not, and contribute a significant portion of damage to the spec. Is the complaint that it's not a power DPS spec? Condi is the meta, and at that particular meta it currently outperforms a lot of other specs. Power Thief

before

the removal of GotL was the bottom tier DPS spec, now like power necro it probably won't have any place in raids at all. Mirage out damages power thief by at minimum 5k and more realistically probably 8-9k.

Small Hitbox:

Large Hitbox:

That's funny that you say weaver wasn't designed around mechanics, when Anet had to build in new tech specifically to get weavers main mechanic working. Contrast that with mirage that gets a fancy dodge. At least with DD you had GM traits that changed how you dodge, Mirage doesn't even get that.

[Miroe.2054]

@Sodeni.6041 said:The problem is that Anet forced a spec upon a design idea and not around mechanics. That's why mirage feels just like an upgrade to core mesmer. Mirrors should have been a better implemented mechanic and in its current form its very unfun. Infinite Horizon should have been the core trait of the mirage, thus should be baseline. Because of IH, phantasms lack synergy with the mirage and should have been changed slightly. A lot of people are also disappointed of not having new f-abilities or at least an f5 like every other elite spec (except scrapper). For example Illusionary Ambush would have been a great f-5 skill.

I give you this; Starting the design from a flavor point might have prevented the mirage from having a very strong mechanical concept like "A ranger that merges with his pet". "A mesmer who does not lose attacks to dodging" doesn't not sound as interesting of an idea but it's actually huge. Changing the most basic of mechanics for one set of players is more likely to break the game than giving somebody a death ray. Like the scrapper you mentioned who can rez or finish enemies from afar with his utility drone or the Daredevil who got a third dodge. Imagine a class who hides its health bar, has multiple lives or is invisible while dodging. Now Mirage Mirrors are graphically a lot more flashy than the dodge effect and it's understandable that one might expect them to be the great new mechanic of the mirage. They are nice to build around in melee range where you can snatch them up in two steps but essentially they are decoration. Don't make a mirror build. Mirage Coat is the great new mechanic. I give you that it's misleading.