I need help understanding firebrand (open world)

[CritikalMoist.7216]

I boosted my character to lvl 80 got elite firebrand spec and have been trying to find videos that explain how to play the class because currently I have some understanding of the class and it is honestly really fun but knowing when to use abilities and stuff like that I'm having a hard time with like what ability do I enter combat with if I'm solo vs in a group
also comparing viper to celestial damage is there really a different besides being more tankier taking the celestial option?

Edited April 21, 2022 by CritikalMoist.7216

[Hotride.2187]

If you are solo, best to run celestial. Your damage will be less, but you will be much more tankier.

For the rest, best to link your build. Personally I run this one with minor modifications:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Firebrand_-_Quickness_Support_Condi_DPS

There is a linked video that shows how to dps with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t5qwrBjMz0

You can run with the recommended gear (you should still be tanky enough) but if you already have celestial that is fine too and you will die less. For starters you can only use one weapon set (e.g. axe and torch or scepter and torch), weapon swap is important only to maximize your dps. Scepter is ranged but you mostly do your dmg in melee so pick whichever you have already.

The most important parts is to have a symbol down, to have used torch 4 (throwing the torch) and to burst with Tome of Justice (F1) on cooldown. The build also grants quickness (via mantra of potency and trait for quickness on heal mantra) to 5 nearby players (yourself included), which is very valuable to boost dps in groups.

 

So, standard engage is:

Drop a symbol (axe 2, scepter 2).

Spam torch 4.

Enter Tome of Justice (F1), 2, 4, 5, 1, 2 (goal is to not stay long in tome and to stack the insane burn from 2).

Torch 5.

 

After that you use symbol, torch 4 and Tome of Justice off cooldown, with torch 5 and Cleansing Fire when those are on cooldown. If map chat calls for CC, you use axe 3 and/or scepter 3.

All the while you use mantra of potency and mantra of flame when you have charges (mantras are instant, you can use/spam them while doing other things). Make sure to also use 1 charge of the heal mantra on CD, as well as the elite skill ("Feel My Wrath") on CD. You can also spam your heal mantra in most cases, but in case you need more healing just keep 2 charges up and use only 1 charge.

Don't worry if you forget to use some abilities at first, just get used to spamming the mantras while dropping symbol, throwing torch and bursting with F1. The rest you can add on top with time playing the build. Its very simple and very strong, compared to what other professions or builds have to do.

 

The other 2 tomes (resolve and courage, F2 and F3)  you can learn to use later on. Generally each tome has abilities like this:

1. Can be spammed like an auto attack for an effect (stacks burn on F1, heals on F2, gives stability on F3).

2. Is an aoe around you (heavy burn on F1, condi cleanse and heal if condis were cleansed on F2, taunt on F3).

3. Is an aoe you can target at a location (pull/CC to center of AoE on F1, grant regen and vigor on F2, projectile reflection bubble on F3).

4. Is a big aoe field around you that stays for a while (fire field that burns enemies on F1, water field that heals on F2, pulsing resistance and light field on F3).

5. Is a heavy effect that grants special buffs to your party for a short time (burn enemies on attacks on F1, increase healing you do to your party on F2, stability protection and aegis on F3).

Edited April 22, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[taara.3217]

Take a look at Roul's guide - I think you can find useful information.

Edited April 22, 2022 by taara.3217

[CritikalMoist.7216]

1 hour ago, taara.3217 said:

Take a look at Roul's guide - I think you can find useful information.

Uhh there only a slight problem with the video lmao https://snowcrows.com/guides/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/condition/

the link doesnt exist it looked like a nice video though

[Nezekan.2671]

Firebrand is arguably the best user of celestial stat. So I would definitely recommend that for open world. It's expensive to get, but don't rush it. Farm it in your own pace, and when you are done, this will be your best open world build and can pretty much do everything with it.

Edited April 24, 2022 by Nezekan.2671

[Antina.5973]

On 4/22/2022 at 10:11 PM, CritikalMoist.7216 said:

Uhh there only a slight problem with the video lmao https://snowcrows.com/guides/raids/builds/guardian/firebrand/condition/

the link doesnt exist it looked like a nice video though

They did restructure the site a bit, all the guardian builds are here: https://snowcrows.com/builds?profession=Guardian&role=Any&damage=Any&beginner=0

https://snowcrows.com/builds/guardian/firebrand/condition-firebrand

Edited April 24, 2022 by Antina.5973

[Astralarius Zenith.6879]

As a Firebrand main, I would suggest running celestial gear since it allows you to have a good boon duration, self-sustain, while still dealing damage that is still not that bad. Depending on the traits and the utilities you use though, celestial builds opens a lot of possibilities and they can have a carry potential in terms of providing boons and healing which really helps in clearing content easier.

[Ryou.2398]

Everyone constantly suggesting celestial for the sake of extra tankiness you do not really need that when your doing lots of more dps, just check metabattle there is a good dps firebrand open world there.

[Astralarius Zenith.6879]

11 hours ago, Ryou.2398 said:

Everyone constantly suggesting celestial for the sake of extra tankiness you do not really need that when your doing lots of more dps, just check metabattle there is a good dps firebrand open world there.

Damage is important in builds, however it's not the only variable that makes a specific build good. Aside from survivability, we also have to take account what boons we can provide to ourselves and allies. The reason for suggesting celestials for firebrand because it gives the player good boon uptime, because a Firebrand can provide themselves and allies almost every boon except alacrity. A properly built celestial firebrand can sustain for self and allies pretty much 25 stacks of might, vigor, quickness, protection and resolution which are HUGE for reducing damage taken. Plus, one is doing this while still dealing good damage! (it may not be the highest damage but it is still not that bad)

:))

[Ryou.2398]

3 minutes ago, Zenythroxenim.7903 said:

Damage is important in builds, however it's not the only variable that makes a specific build good. Aside from survivability, we also have to take account what boons we can provide to ourselves and allies. The reason for suggesting celestials for firebrand because it gives the player good boon uptime, because a Firebrand can provide themselves and allies almost every boon except alacrity. A properly built celestial firebrand can sustain for self and allies pretty much 25 stacks of might, vigor, quickness, protection and resolution which are HUGE for reducing damage taken. Plus, one is doing this while still dealing good damage! (it may not be the highest damage but it is still not that bad)

:))

 

Ok but that is assuming your in groups, in open world your soloing as well. Anyways my main point is people can go either or so lets not pretend other builds do not exist or not atleast equal to celestial.

[Astralarius Zenith.6879]

5 minutes ago, Ryou.2398 said:

Ok but that is assuming your in groups, in open world your soloing as well. Anyways my main point is people can go either or so lets not pretend other builds do not exist or not atleast equal to celestial.

I agree with you right there. The perspective that I was just trying to say is the flexibility of the celestial firebrand that works for both solo and group situations in open world PvE, like it can be the safe option OP can build towards first assuming that it is their first time gearing their firebrand since vipers gear and having both may take a lot of time to grind. Anyways, to the OP, use what works best for them and which can give them more fun, which is the point of the build diversity in Gw2 after all. :))

[Ryou.2398]

38 minutes ago, Zenythroxenim.7903 said:

I agree with you right there. The perspective that I was just trying to say is the flexibility of the celestial firebrand that works for both solo and group situations in open world PvE, like it can be the safe option OP can build towards first assuming that it is their first time gearing their firebrand since vipers gear and having both may take a lot of time to grind. Anyways, to the OP, use what works best for them and which can give them more fun, which is the point of the build diversity in Gw2 after all. :))

Thanks for being an adult about our conversation this is probably the best convo ive had in any online gaming in a while, its honestly a relief at this point. And yes I am having a little bit of a time myself going for vipers, and to be honest having a hard time learning the build lol, but its certainly powerful in my experience for open world, but I did discover a few ways of getting most of it without grinding out berries.

[Orthonen.9470]

As others have said celestial is pretty good, it's a stat set that gives you a bit of everything guardian needs, guardian is about fire and protection, it's a guardian's interest to bring a healthy balance between both condi and power, toughness vit healing too.

Especially in open world, considering you only have 12K HP it's not going to last long without some form of damage mitigation.

I wouldn't necessarily run it in instanced content since typically others will provide healing and other boons, but you know.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Aridon.8362

[Gaiawolf.8261]

Normally, I wouldn't recommend celestial gear, but FB makes use of just about every stat, especially if you're proccing and sharing a lot of boons with your build. For those who tell you that you don't need the extra tankiness it provides, that's mostly true. You can usually get through content if you know what your doing. (But celestial does make it easier.)

For those that tell tell you're gonna lose a lot of DPS, that's a half truth. It's true for trash mobs. You'll get through braindead combat and areas with a lot of mobs faster if you learn to use timely evades/blocks on full DPS gear.

On anything that really matters, bosses, champs, legendaries, etc. (except fractals and raids which have their own mechanics to manage) the added defense, healing power, and boon uptime from celestial gear minimizes any DPS loss you'd see. This is because you can generally facetank/melee kite bosses and keep DPS going while glass cannon builds will lose DPS during dodges, scrambles, and survival skills that you don't have to use nearly as often. You're never going to see this effect against the test golem, but with the right build in game, you can time it and see the benefits. 

In short, offensive gear offers most players better burst and better damage vs PVE mobs. Celestial gear offers most players better and/or easier sustained damage against things that don't die right way to bursts.

As an added benefit, celestial gear translate very well to several FB builds for wvw quite easily.

Edited May 14, 2022 by Gaiawolf.8261

[Jansten.7208]

On 4/22/2022 at 2:20 AM, Hotride.2187 said:

If you are solo, best to run celestial. Your damage will be less, but you will be much more tankier.

For the rest, best to link your build. Personally I run this one with minor modifications:

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Firebrand_-_Quickness_Support_Condi_DPS

There is a linked video that shows how to dps with it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4t5qwrBjMz0

You can run with the recommended gear (you should still be tanky enough) but if you already have celestial that is fine too and you will die less. For starters you can only use one weapon set (e.g. axe and torch or scepter and torch), weapon swap is important only to maximize your dps. Scepter is ranged but you mostly do your dmg in melee so pick whichever you have already.

The most important parts is to have a symbol down, to have used torch 4 (throwing the torch) and to burst with Tome of Justice (F1) on cooldown. The build also grants quickness (via mantra of potency and trait for quickness on heal mantra) to 5 nearby players (yourself included), which is very valuable to boost dps in groups.

 

So, standard engage is:

Drop a symbol (axe 2, scepter 2).

Spam torch 4.

Enter Tome of Justice (F1), 2, 4, 5, 1, 2 (goal is to not stay long in tome and to stack the insane burn from 2).

Torch 5.

 

After that you use symbol, torch 4 and Tome of Justice off cooldown, with torch 5 and Cleansing Fire when those are on cooldown. If map chat calls for CC, you use axe 3 and/or scepter 3.

All the while you use mantra of potency and mantra of flame when you have charges (mantras are instant, you can use/spam them while doing other things). Make sure to also use 1 charge of the heal mantra on CD, as well as the elite skill ("Feel My Wrath") on CD. You can also spam your heal mantra in most cases, but in case you need more healing just keep 2 charges up and use only 1 charge.

Don't worry if you forget to use some abilities at first, just get used to spamming the mantras while dropping symbol, throwing torch and bursting with F1. The rest you can add on top with time playing the build. Its very simple and very strong, compared to what other professions or builds have to do.

 

The other 2 tomes (resolve and courage, F2 and F3)  you can learn to use later on. Generally each tome has abilities like this:

1. Can be spammed like an auto attack for an effect (stacks burn on F1, heals on F2, gives stability on F3).

2. Is an aoe around you (heavy burn on F1, condi cleanse and heal if condis were cleansed on F2, taunt on F3).

3. Is an aoe you can target at a location (pull/CC to center of AoE on F1, grant regen and vigor on F2, projectile reflection bubble on F3).

4. Is a big aoe field around you that stays for a while (fire field that burns enemies on F1, water field that heals on F2, pulsing resistance and light field on F3).

5. Is a heavy effect that grants special buffs to your party for a short time (burn enemies on attacks on F1, increase healing you do to your party on F2, stability protection and aegis on F3).

 

Thank you so much for this post. I recently was playing around with this build using exotic gear/ascended weapon and was getting terrible DPS. Your post did a great job of breaking it down for me to understand better. Its one thing to read and copy a build and another to understand the important mechanics (which you described wonderfully).

[Hotride.2187]

7 hours ago, Jansten.7208 said:

 

Thank you so much for this post. I recently was playing around with this build using exotic gear/ascended weapon and was getting terrible DPS. Your post did a great job of breaking it down for me to understand better. Its one thing to read and copy a build and another to understand the important mechanics (which you described wonderfully).

Keep in mind that with the tomes rework the F1 burst is different now. Personally I go into F1 to do 5,4,2 now. Then I leave tome and wait until 5 is available again. I assume you can also do 4,2,1 as soon as 4 is available, then 5,2,1 when 5 is available. But 5,4,2 is more simple.

 

[Gehenna.3625]

On 4/24/2022 at 10:17 AM, Nezekan.2671 said:

Firebrand is arguably the best user of celestial stat. So I would definitely recommend that for open world. It's expensive to get, but don't rush it. Farm it in your own pace, and when you are done, this will be your best open world build and can pretty much do everything with it.

Relatively expensive when you buy it from the TP, but still not expensive imo for what it is. But you're right, Guardians and in particular FB makes the best use of celestial stats afaic. 

To the OP:

One downside that celestial stats have is that you also get Toughness. The higher your Toughness is the more you get the attention from mobs and in particular while fighting champions that might be tricky. A lot of other people don't have their Toughness raised so you'll be target no. 1 in OW a lot, however, that's only a concern for group content and not when you're soloing stuff.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

15 hours ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Relatively expensive when you buy it from the TP, but still not expensive imo for what it is. But you're right, Guardians and in particular FB makes the best use of celestial stats afaic. 

To the OP:

One downside that celestial stats have is that you also get Toughness. The higher your Toughness is the more you get the attention from mobs and in particular while fighting champions that might be tricky. A lot of other people don't have their Toughness raised so you'll be target no. 1 in OW a lot, however, that's only a concern for group content and not when you're soloing stuff.

Are you sure about that? I fairly sure toughness is only used for aggro in raids.

[Gehenna.3625]

19 hours ago, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

Are you sure about that? I fairly sure toughness is only used for aggro in raids.

As far as I know it works that way everywhere but there are exceptions of what gains threat because there are a few different scenarios as described here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro

Read where it says "Most hostile NPC enemies maintain an internal threat table which functions on a simple priority-queue principle: " under threat table. It doesn't say just in raids.

It's also my experience that it works that way in WvW and OW. When I used to wear celestial on my main I got the aggro often, even after just doing damage once in an ongoing fight. Now that I don't use gear with toughness anymore it happens far less. Mind you there are NPCs that don't react to Toughness as described on the wiki page.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

As far as I know it works that way everywhere but there are exceptions of what gains threat because there are a few different scenarios as described here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Aggro

Read where it says "Most hostile NPC enemies maintain an internal threat table which functions on a simple priority-queue principle: " under threat table. It doesn't say just in raids.

It's also my experience that it works that way in WvW and OW. When I used to wear celestial on my main I got the aggro often, even after just doing damage once in an ongoing fight. Now that I don't use gear with toughness anymore it happens far less. Mind you there are NPCs that don't react to Toughness as described on the wiki page.

All of the enemies known to target characters with high Toughness in that article are raid bosses. I suppose it's possible some OW or wvw NPCs use Toughness too, but I never heard of that nor found any confirmation. 

[Gehenna.3625]

On 12/28/2022 at 12:44 AM, Gaiawolf.8261 said:

All of the enemies known to target characters with high Toughness in that article are raid bosses. I suppose it's possible some OW or wvw NPCs use Toughness too, but I never heard of that nor found any confirmation. 

All I can say is that this was told to me and my personal experience with toughness or without toughness seem to confirm this. It's anecdotal evidence but it's consistent.

At the same time it doesn't specify that it's only for raid bosses, something that I would've expected it to say if that was the case. 🤷‍♂️

Edit: I found this discussion on reddit from 10 years ago where they're discussing toughness as a reason for getting aggro. So that's before there were any raids in the game. So this idea about toughness causing aggro is as old as the game itself.

Edited December 29, 2022 by Gehenna.3625