possible solutions for hard cc rebuff

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

An actual sic em build that can really kill a target....will have literally zero sustain, full zerker/assasin/diviner stats, and will fire entire build including elite on 60s cd to kill anything on two legs and capable of rationale thought...literally anything that can dodge and rush will kill that sic em build in 2 hits.

I'm gonna do the same song and dance here:

Sic' Em Soulbeast has significantly more mitigation than most warrior builds.

Let's prove it. 
Let's say the One Wolf Pack opener misses, and a warrior is running in to kill the soulbeast in two hits.
At that point in time the soulbeast has:
 

• Smoke Assault - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) 
• Counterattack - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
• Protection on dodge from Companion's Defense.
• The evade from Counterattack Kick - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
• Movement speed from beastmode from Pet's Prowess - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W). This makes them 5% faster than warrior at base. They also have access to superspeed and swiftness through commands and entering beastmode.
• Smoke Cloud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) coupled with swoop for stealth.
• Hunter's Shot - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
• Burst damage from Maul on standby
• Burst damage from worldly impact on standby

If this is considered glass cannon to you, then balance warrior similarly.  If this is considered weak enough to not be present in the meta, then it should be no problem to adjust warrior so it has similar levels of mitigation/stunbreak uptime.

Edited June 1, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Arheundel.6451]

54 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

We've had this arguement before Arheundel, that sic'em sniper isn't as defenseless as you claim and you know it. 

I fought proper sic em on core war...and ranger remains the easiest class to down in wvw....when played by a potato. People can post all they want on the forums...but "skill level" remains an undeniable truth. It's one thing to face a player who position himself properly and counts your dodges and stunbreaks before firing off...and another it's to die to an average tower ranger....

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

44 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

I fought proper sic em on core war...and ranger remains the easiest class to down in wvw....when played by a potato. People can post all they want on the forums...but "skill level" remains an undeniable truth. It's one thing to face a player who position himself properly and counts your dodges and stunbreaks before firing off...and another it's to die to an average tower ranger....

 

Yes, and non potato rangers remember they have 4 evades, a three second block, two dodges, and 4 CCs in the same build. There really isn't much skill needed in that build.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

59 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I'm gonna do the same song and dance here:

Sic' Em Soulbeast has significantly more mitigation than most warrior builds.

Let's prove it. 
Let's say the One Wolf Pack opener misses, and a warrior is running in to kill the soulbeast in two hits.
At that point in time the soulbeast has:
 

• Smoke Assault - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) 
• Counterattack - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
• Protection on dodge from Companion's Defense.
• The evade from Counterattack Kick - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
• Movement speed from beastmode from Pet's Prowess - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W). This makes them 5% faster than warrior at base. They also have access to superspeed and swiftness through commands and entering beastmode.
• Smoke Cloud - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W) coupled with swoop for stealth.
• Hunter's Shot - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)
• Burst damage from Maul on standby
• Burst damage from worldly impact on standby

If this is considered glass cannon to you, then balance warrior similarly.  If this is considered weak enough to not be present in the meta, then it should be no problem to adjust warrior so it has similar levels of mitigation/stunbreak uptime.

Warriors just want the same tools and builds that other professions think are weak. 😭

[Arheundel.6451]

3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Yes, and non potato rangers remember they have 4 evades, a three second block, two dodges, and 4 CCs in the same build. There really isn't much skill needed in that build.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAEd7lJwSYiMMGKA-w

And in this build I have a stun, a knockdown, a 3s block, 3 stunbreaks including pulsing stability, 3x mass condi clear, an evade, plus another if traited, 2x dodges...and this is a core war, not even a spellbreaker.

It's all fine and dandy when fightning against potatoes  from 1500 range...when you face proper players ....I'd like to see your amazing skills at that point.

-I could do : judge's intervention+spear of justice ....for example on a dh...and the wombo combo described by @Azure..goes down the drain and that's the limitation of every GW2 player when talking about professions/specs they don't play in fantasy scenarios in their mind when fightning actual hamsters on a wheel

-I could do million things to ruin your fantasy scenario ,  I could lightning flash+burning speed you down the stairs 

[Arheundel.6451]

12 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Warriors just want the same tools and builds that other professions think are weak. 😭

Every class should have a 50% chance at killing all others and nobody is asking to deny the same privilege to warriors. Problem is war mains tend to forget how low is the skill floor required to play their class . 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAEd7lJwSYiMMGKA-w

And in this build I have a stun, a knockdown, a 3s block, 3 stunbreaks including pulsing stability, 3x mass condi clear, an evade, plus another if traited, 2x dodges...and this is a core war, not even a spellbreaker.

It's all fine and dandy when fightning against potatoes  from 1500 range...when you face proper players ....I'd like to see your amazing skills at that point.

-I could do : judge's intervention+spear of justice ....for example on a dh...and the wombo combo described by @Azure..goes down the drain and that's the limitation of every GW2 player when talking about professions/specs they don't play in fantasy scenarios in their mind when fightning actual hamsters on a wheel

-I could do million things to ruin your fantasy scenario ,  I could lightning flash+burning speed you down the stairs 

The path you are treading is slippery and down hill and every class can do the same in return.

Does skill matter? Absolutely. But do some professions and especs make it far easier to do? Absolutely. Some are willing to acknowledge that and others are not.

Frankly, when I roll my soul beast in WvW I run grieving stats on a power setup just to handicap myself, otherwise it's too easy. Feel the same on my reaper. Too easy these days. Even more so on harbae.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Just now, Arheundel.6451 said:

Every class should have a 50% chance at killing all others and nobody is asking to deny the same privilege to warriors. Problem is war mains tend to forget how low is the skill floor required to play their class . 

 

The skill ceiling is higher though due to how easy it is to fight against. Whenever you switch from warrior to a properly tuned spec you realize just how much warrior starts out the gate fighting with one hand tied behind their back.

 

I want warrior fixed so that there is a fair competitive playing field, because there isn't one and no one can refute that. If you see me pointing out things on other classes is more to highlight that uneven field in hopes of warrior buffs rather than nerfs elsewhere. But if Anet refuses to buff/update warrior, then nerfs elsewhere are fair game in my mind, just not my first pick.

[Myror.7521]

@Arheundel.6451 I mean you said how "low" the skill flor is. Have you actually play the class once? xD In my mind warrior actually need like 100% more skill flor than most other classes simply cause its skills are more or less 100% melee plus high telegraphed by alot of cast times on the most of it skills. Meanwhile other classes could port, stealth or simply aoe spaming around them or just let its pets doing half its job. Sry but calling warrior the class with the lowest skill flor is simply not true, its more or less the opposide just in my opinion at least ^^

[Crab Fear.8623]

31 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Every class should have a 50% chance at killing all others and nobody is asking to deny the same privilege to warriors. Problem is war mains tend to forget how low is the skill floor required to play their class . 

 

LoL 🤥

[Arheundel.6451]

31 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

The skill ceiling is higher though due to how easy it is to fight against. Whenever you switch from warrior to a properly tuned spec you realize just how much warrior starts out the gate fighting with one hand tied behind their back.

 

I want warrior fixed so that there is a fair competitive playing field, because there isn't one and no one can refute that. If you see me pointing out things on other classes is more to highlight that uneven field in hopes of warrior buffs rather than nerfs elsewhere. But if Anet refuses to buff/update warrior, then nerfs elsewhere are fair game in my mind, just not my first pick.

I am suggesting war mains not to use ranger ..or ele..or mesmer as their target for "admiration", even if you sit with them at the same table...you will still be quite far from actual meta status just saying

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

7 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

I am suggesting war mains not to use ranger ..or ele..or mesmer as their target for "admiration", even if you sit with them at the same table...you will still be quite far from actual meta status just saying

Ranger is probably the actually most balanced class though. It's guard and necro that are massively over performing.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

Edited before I get warned. 

 

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Every class should have a 50% chance at killing all others and nobody is asking to deny the same privilege to warriors. Problem is war mains tend to forget how low is the skill floor required to play their class . 

 

Elaborate. How is warrior low skill floor? Is it because their buttons only do one thing at a time, instead of multiple things? I can name several classes that are less intensive than warrior is, some of which sit firmly in meta territory. 

And, follow up question, why exactly is that a problem (assuming it is true, which I challenge)? What are you implying?

 

1 hour ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PKwAEd7lJwSYiMMGKA-w

And in this build I have a stun, a knockdown, a 3s block, 3 stunbreaks including pulsing stability, 3x mass condi clear, an evade, plus another if traited, 2x dodges...and this is a core war, not even a spellbreaker.

So, close the same kit spread as soulbeast, with cooldowns at or over 60 seconds on most of your utilities and your stunbreaks sharing your condi cleanses, and a mostly melee range requirement.

This is the point.

Quote

It's all fine and dandy when fightning against potatoes  from 1500 range...when you face proper players ....I'd like to see your amazing skills at that point.

-I could do : judge's intervention+spear of justice ....for example on a dh...and the wombo combo described by @Azure..goes down the drain and that's the limitation of every GW2 player when talking about professions/specs they don't play in fantasy scenarios in their mind when fightning actual hamsters on a wheel

-I could do million things to ruin your fantasy scenario ,  I could lightning flash+burning speed you down the stairs 

You seem more preoccupied with defending ranger by saying it has things that can circumvent its range requirement easily, than you are with the point I am trying to make. Relax. Nobody is claiming ranger is busted and needs to be nerfed. 

yet.

What I -personally- want is for warrior to be not subject to some kind specific of balancing regimen that the other classes (of which ranger is just a fraction) are not subjected to. That could be fixed very easily by adjusting warrior cooldowns. I don't mind being at a range disadvantage vs ranger. What I do mind, however is being at a range disadvantage, circumventing that due to smart play, and then having to deal with mitigative cooldowns that ranger hasn't even begun to use being much more accessible than mine, even though the burden of that fight was on me to begin with.

You keep talking about skill disparity like that is a dismissal of the point I am making, when it isnt. Ranger has more to work with period, and that uptime should be mirrored on warrior where appropriate. 

If a DH teleports to you as a ranger, fine. You cant use your LB right away. You -do- however have a handful of tools you can use to react to that, and potentially still win with smart play. Warrior doesn't have the same flexibility, and they want the flexibility. Warrior is good vs potatoes too. They are worse at responding to non potatoes. Which is the point.

I personally think Ranger is one of the most well balanced classes in the game, and is a good example of the versatility warrior claims to be adept at in its class splash text actually executed well. What irritates me is when I try to make a comparison about what I'd like for warrior by using Ranger as a template, and am met with fear or the insinuation that this is some kind of zero-sum game where the only way warrior can be flexible in PvP is by amputating it from a class that has it. 

I'm trying -real hard to not do that-. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Swagg.9236]

12 hours ago, Stand The Wall.6987 said:

yeah it makes sense. i would limit the stunbreak to 1 every 10 sec and independent of endurance regen. having its own timer would be easiest. 

Just remove stunbreaks from all current sources, make dodging the way to do it, give everyone 4 dodges, and then remove the evades and blocks baked into all the skills that deal damage.