WvW mesmer question for all you "pros"

[Smart College Boy.3249]

I've been doing just fine with this Chrono spec in PvE and I'm not quite sure how it will play out in WvW (not sPvP). My goal is to roam with one or two friends in WvW. Here is the Chrono spec I've been playing in PvE.

 

Build Editor - Gw2Skills.Net

 

It's basically a Chornophantasma build using a greatsword and staff for lots of phantasms and shatter. It's got decent mobility and I chose the superior rune of the warrior to shed 2 seconds off the weapon swapping. It makes a huge difference in PvE so I can only imagine it would be fun in WvW. 

 

My second build is the typical Virtuoso focused on blocking and blade generation. It's not a typical build. The sword and torch are mostly used for escaping. The scepter and sword offhand will be my primary dps weapon which generates lots of blades. Again, I haven't tried WvW yet so not sure how that would work out. It's quite an adjustment from the Chrono build because I have to be more active with my blocks. And it's definitely not as fun as the other spec in PvE.

 

Build Editor - Gw2Skills.Net

 

 

 

 

Edited June 13, 2022 by Smart College Boy.3249

[Smart College Boy.3249]

Probably should have asked this in the WvW forums....

 

I just want to make sure I'm not wasting my time with the wrong spec for the wrong content because gearing them out is a bit different. Right now I'm using Marauders but plan on changing some things once I fully settle on the spec.

Edited June 13, 2022 by Smart College Boy.3249

[Smart College Boy.3249]

2 hours ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

 

 

2 hours ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

 

Been farting around with the Virtuoso spec in PvE and it just doesn't compare for solo play..... Or maybe I just need practice with it. The other spec I could take out champs and some low level legendaries. Not sure I can do it with this Virtuoso.

 

 

 

[Salt Mode.3780]

Here is he run down of Mesmer in WvW.

As a zerg you either run Virtuoso glass cannon or support chronomancer 

As a roamer Virtuoso is viable but considering how many people run celestial statline these days you wont have sufficient damage to finish them off.

Best roamer is still Mirage even with the one dodge. GS ambush is the reason why this is possible, being able to stack might at the same time inflicting vulnerability double downs on damage.

Chrono losing distortion was a huge blow on roaming potential.

[Ombras.2853]

If you keep playing one-shot builds in WvW, you shouldn’t really complain then that you can’t kill people around. In all honestly. They are super outdated in any way possible. They still have marginal use, but claiming that Power Mirage is the best roamer Mesmer has available is bold.

[Ombras.2853]

As for the initial post: I suggest you to actually try WvW before theorycrafting. Theorycrafting is good and all, but if you don’t have experience with the game mode is kinda useless.

At the time being, best build for zergs is Chrono Support. If you are the only Chrono of your squad, you want to be on full Minstrel. If you have more in squad, you want to be on something like Wanderer to improve your damage, because multiple Chrono in the same squad means an important loss of damage. Virtuoso is “playable”, mostly on the back of a well timed t3 firing multiple interrupt + boon strip and the usual suspect, but it’s pretty much a worse version of any Necro spec (better pull, worse in any other area).

For roaming, on the other hand, you have plenty of options to choose from.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Again I backed up my reason in why Power mirage is still the strongest roamer, GS ambush is arguably the strongest sustained damage we have as it double downs on 1. giving you perma might stacks and 2. inflicting vulnerability on the target. This is a NON PROJECTILE RANGE ability that is super strong paired with IH you are dealing massive damage.

As a person who plays Chrono, core, mirage, virtuoso both CONDI AND POWER variant of each spec mirage is still the best.

Condi mirage losing burn lost most of its damage as they changed how torment works, not to mention there is no burst potential no real chase potential, if someone decides to not fight you there is no way for you to chase them down to kill.

Condi Chrono HAS burst potential but the problem with both CORE and Chrono is if you miss your burst you are a sitting duck but unlike core you don't have distortion to back you up.

Virtuoso ATM is strong due to block, however it lacks the damage to kill anything that has strong sustain unless you go full glass cannon. Not to mention all of your shatters are projectile and has big visual animation which means decent players will simply dodge out of your shatters or better yet know how to stick close to you and move behind you as you cast so you cast cancel. Also things that ignore block is a huge detriment to this class IE Bladesworns.

I have 8 different build templets and 12 different gear sets/builds on hotkey at all times for roaming I know what I'm talking about instead of spewing nonsense.

[Ombras.2853]

The “problem” with Power Mirage is that it’s a fully glass cannon build. Like, once you engage, you either kill them or lose. Most of the current viable Power builds actually have the potential to disengage, Virtuoso itself is much stronger in that regard cuz it can stall for days even on a “glass build”, since it literally spams invulnerable and invi. I’m not saying Power Mirage isn’t viable at all, I play it myself when I know I have to do stuff like picking out up isolated enemies nearby spawn while the main group is fighting. But, again, it’s good at doing specifically one thing: killing the target.

Roaming =/= killing one target.

Condi Mirage is in a good position, and the non-Staff versions are absolutely doing enough damage and have enough chasing potential, plus the sustain to engage/disengage from fights when outnumbered. Things like Axe 3 and Illusionary Ambush, plus the added mobility on Jaunt make it easy to chase non Thieves/Rangers.

Condi Chrono, yes, I completely agree. I think core has more game for several reasons, but we can apply similar issues to it as well.

Condi Virtuoso (in several forms) is actually the strongest roamer Mesmer has. Not the best dueling spec, mind it (that’s Condi Mirage imho) but it has absolutely the best balance between staying alive with sustain / disengage through stealth / decent burst / good enough in team fights. That’s what it’s required to be a good roamer, useful to your team and not just wandering through the borders looking for someone to fight.

And, tbh, I’ll apply a similar reasoning to Power Virtuoso as well. Good enough in the sustain department thanks to the perma blocks, able to escape when outnumbered thought stealth, but with the plus of being able to kill something fast.

 

Edited June 14, 2022 by Ombras.2853

[Salt Mode.3780]

Condi Virtuoso's damage is F2, if people can dodge your F2 and only your F2 your damage is gone. The reason why I say GS mirage is the best roamer is because you dont need to go full glass cannon, you can go on either marauders or full celestial if you want due to the perma 25 might stack + inflicting vulnerability.

 

[Ombras.2853]

Condi Virtuoso damage comes from multiple sources, but yes, mainly it’s f2 and Scepter 3.

Point is:

If the opponent is fighting you, he will probably lose the long fight.

If you are outnumbered, you can probably disengage.

If you are holding a position/objective, you will probably maintain it.

If you have to stall for your allies to come, you will probably be able do do it.

As I said, previously, roaming =/= dueling.

[Justine.6351]

Its more important to not die than to do "big damage".  You may think to be the damage stick for your group while hiding behind them but the reality is as soon as the enemy sees you are a glass cannon mes they are going to just destroy you first in every engagement.

Whatever you pick I recommend at minimum,

Mantra of Healing, Signet of Midnight, Blink

Inspiration trait line with restorative mantras and blurred inscriptions

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiAMmBLxuwkMA-e

 

Oh yeah, I play full mara too. Wouldn't bother with zerker

Edited June 15, 2022 by Justine.6351

[apharma.3741]

On 6/15/2022 at 8:19 PM, Justine.6351 said:

Its more important to not die than to do "big damage".  You may think to be the damage stick for your group while hiding behind them but the reality is as soon as the enemy sees you are a glass cannon mes they are going to just destroy you first in every engagement.

Whatever you pick I recommend at minimum,

Mantra of Healing, Signet of Midnight, Blink

Inspiration trait line with restorative mantras and blurred inscriptions

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiAMmBLxuwkMA-e

 

Oh yeah, I play full mara too. Wouldn't bother with zerker

Personally I would avoid mantra heal as it's really low for it's count recharge even below 50%.

 

To the OP what is your role in the small roaming group or rather what are the others playing?
If your ally is support you shouldn't need inspiration, if you're all being self sufficient inspiration is a nice crutch to learn on.
I would also recommend double cleansing sigil, up to you if you run 0, 1 or 2 energy sigils but they're good for starting and a must for mirage.
Doom is a good sigil to slot vs sustain and you don't have tons of poison so the extra cover is nice. Stay away from focus and pistol if you're new to fighting players as they're less defensive.
Generally avoid thieves, they steal on you and get an iWin button

You can play the classic power shatter build which I would argue is better/easier on core than other variations, timing is everything but you can get kills, you have decent superspeed and traited mirror is a better heal per second than ether feast. Mass invis traited with Prismatic Understanding is also great for getting away however BEWARE OF THIEVES.

 

There's a mirage and a core version of a tanky mesmer condi roamer build, this doesn't have a lot of killing power, it'll just sustain for a long time and eventually win a 1v1 if someone chooses to stay fighting. I mention it because it's very forgiving, easy to play and in a group if the enemy focuses you then your allies can kill the enemy easier. There is a chrono version but I wouldn't recommend it, you give up all damage for support but end up not providing much of that and being easier to focus.

This is my current build, it's very one dimensional but I want the experience on virtuoso. I might swap defender runes in but being slow sucks so I tend to run traveler runes. Again up to you how many energy sigils you use, I tend to swap them for doom on condi builds.

[Justine.6351]

7 hours ago, apharma.3741 said:

Personally I would avoid mantra heal as it's really low for it's count recharge even below 50%.

 

To the OP what is your role in the small roaming group or rather what are the others playing?
If your ally is support you shouldn't need inspiration, if you're all being self sufficient inspiration is a nice crutch to learn on.
I would also recommend double cleansing sigil, up to you if you run 0, 1 or 2 energy sigils but they're good for starting and a must for mirage.
Doom is a good sigil to slot vs sustain and you don't have tons of poison so the extra cover is nice. Stay away from focus and pistol if you're new to fighting players as they're less defensive.
Generally avoid thieves, they steal on you and get an iWin button

You can play the classic power shatter build which I would argue is better/easier on core than other variations, timing is everything but you can get kills, you have decent superspeed and traited mirror is a better heal per second than ether feast. Mass invis traited with Prismatic Understanding is also great for getting away however BEWARE OF THIEVES.

 

There's a mirage and a core version of a tanky mesmer condi roamer build, this doesn't have a lot of killing power, it'll just sustain for a long time and eventually win a 1v1 if someone chooses to stay fighting. I mention it because it's very forgiving, easy to play and in a group if the enemy focuses you then your allies can kill the enemy easier. There is a chrono version but I wouldn't recommend it, you give up all damage for support but end up not providing much of that and being easier to focus.

This is my current build, it's very one dimensional but I want the experience on virtuoso. I might swap defender runes in but being slow sucks so I tend to run traveler runes. Again up to you how many energy sigils you use, I tend to swap them for doom on condi builds.

It's instant. You can use it while cced. Great for an average player.

[Smart College Boy.3249]

Read through all the posts. Thanks for the advice. As predicted, the Chornophantasma shatter build did solid damage and had decent mobility (not great) but was weak against ranged attacks. I was having problems with ranged mobs in PvE so I can only imagine the horrors in PvP. The damage was good but that one weakness is just too much to deal with. It would work well in a blob zerg but not in a small group of players roaming around.

 

So I took some advice in this thread and reworked my Chronophantasma build to include more stealth.... a lot more stealth. Both builds are generally the same except one is condi and one is power. I kind of like the power one better because the greatsword skills have short cooldowns which will almost recycle and be ready when I come out of stealth. It's already working slightly better in PvE versus ranged mobs. I know that doesn't translate to PvP, but it's a start.

 

Power:   Build Editor - Gw2Skills.Net

 

Condi:   Build Editor - Gw2Skills.Net

[Ombras.2853]

Honestly, I think the last remaining appeal of Chrono is  being able to Gravity Well into CS. I’m pretty confident you want to play that one. Obviously you’ll just get back to MI when you need it.

[Waffles.5632]

32 minutes ago, Ombras.2853 said:

Honestly, I think the last remaining appeal of Chrono is  being able to Gravity Well into CS. I’m pretty confident you want to play that one. Obviously you’ll just get back to MI when you need it.

Although not always practical, if you manage to pull that combo off in pvp/wvw on 3+ players, the feeling you get is pretty crazy lol. Can lockdown a whole area, and yeah, chrono is on it's last legs imo. Chronophantasma just isn't as appealing as it once was, and several classes ( let's be honest its harb, lmfao) get access to arguably better and more impactful aoe floats.

Out of all the mesmer elites, I believe it needs the most help atm, but gotta be careful what we ask for because it's Anet.

Edited June 19, 2022 by Waffles.5632

[Ombras.2853]

I’ll be very happy if the only one thing they’ll change to Chrono is either GW duration or improved cooldown. I know there are lots of things we can discuss about it (distortion back, lol) but making GW-CS a legit play by reducing the cooldown of the skill or/and making it pulse one more time would make me ignore a lot of the “lesser” issues.

[Smart College Boy.3249]

7 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

Obviously you’ll just get back to MI when you need it.

The double staff mirage is fun in PvE but is not really for PvP.

 

As for Mirage in PvP, I can't stand the concept of ambush being the major source of damage as a tradeoff for using dodge defensively. And I also hate how the elite skill Jaunt only has a 400 range. The single condi cleanse on it is not worth the tradeoff of losing the 3rd jaunt given to Mirage in PvE. Increase the range to 600 and keep the limit of 2 uses, or keep the range at 400 and let us use it 3 times like in PvE.

 

I also hate having to switch to staff to use ambush for alacrity. Seems like there are too many tradeoffs that don't offer much in return. Why can't alacrity also come from any weapon when you use ambush? Why is it restricted to staff?

[Ombras.2853]

MI = Mass Invisibility.

[Smart College Boy.3249]

3 hours ago, Ombras.2853 said:

MI = Mass Invisibility.

I thought it meant Mirage with Inspiration build.....

[Ombras.2853]

7 hours ago, Smart College Boy.3249 said:

I thought it meant Mirage with Inspiration build.....

I was talking about the elite skill, so… ^^