Druid Roaming WvW

[Sebrent.3625]

This Ranger came up in my feed the other day. I'm curious what your thoughts are on it. Note: that's not me or even anyone I know; just curious what others see in it and think about it.

 

[Helly.2597]

Druid is the lowest impact power build ranger has. Relies on LB knockback for roots and dmg. Uses CA kite and cleanse, but can be basically completely ignored by average players outside of when it's outnumbering then. 

 

Soul beast and untamed both bring more to the table until you're at 5+ then druid gains due to its roots and superspeed for the group. But I'd define roaming as 1-3 in most cases and in those situations I'd pretty much always take SB or untamed over it. 

[Sahne.6950]

Druid has noodle damage. If you want to play power, than Soulbeast is the way to go! I see him land 6k Rapidfires and im just like... pfft! soulbeast goes BRRRRR 20k+!!!! He is hitting 900 Longbow AA´s... meanwhile Soulbeast: 3k 3k 3k 3k

Embrace my "No-pet-karate-ranger"! It is the literal definition of Roflstomping your enemys. if you are hitting anything under 10k with a "Maul".... are you even playing ranger?

Warning! Videoquality and audio are made by the Anet balancing team. (its a meme dont take it seriously^^| its not a montage or anything its just my brother, literally filming me with a phone for 20 minutes and then skipping to the fights and uploading it straight to youtube | between these clips is not a single death... just back to back oneshotting everyone in sight.... this build is madness.)

 

Edited June 15, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Hotride.2187]

There is this cele druid that is doing OK on my world. But its balanced for a cele spec, all things considered. If you will play cele better to play something that is broken - there are many builds that are way, way better than druid. And honestly if you are not cele there is no point in playing druid in wvw. I think even condi boonbeast is way better (apparently there is a non-cele build for that, or so some person I dueled claimed).

Edited June 15, 2022 by Hotride.2187

[mistsim.2748]

Cele Soulbeast was the bomb when I played over a year ago. Could handle anything in 1v1, and even 1vX. Druid was good with daze spam, shortbow + staff and condi/Apothecary, but with EoD e-specs I don't know how it's doing.

[Sebrent.3625]

I feel like this was glossed over or not even read ....

Quote

This Ranger came up in my feed the other day. I'm curious what your thoughts are on it

Yes, a Soulbeast can throw out more damage. That's obvious and not what was asked.

That player is taking advantage of Sword & Warhorn with Smokescale for more stealth and mobility on top of Druid mechanic for full cleanse, stealth, and superspeed and the root to help setup kills, escapes, etc..

Thoughts on that? 

Thoughts on how you would accomplish the same (or better) as a Soulbeast, Untamed, or even Core?

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

3 minutes ago, Sebrent.3625 said:

I feel like this was glossed over or not even read ....

Yes, a Soulbeast can throw out more damage. That's obvious and not what was asked.

That player is taking advantage of Sword & Warhorn with Smokescale for more stealth and mobility on top of Druid mechanic for full cleanse, stealth, and superspeed and the root to help setup kills, escapes, etc..

Thoughts on that? 

Thoughts on how you would accomplish the same (or better) as a Soulbeast, Untamed, or even Core?

Sword and warhorn are both core, and smokescale still has the smoke f2, and healing spring cleanses 50 conditions total if you keep standing in it... the only issue is easy access to superspeed, but you can get that via quickening zeyphr... you could take arguably better wvw traitlines rather than druid for 90% of the same stuff. As much as I love playing druid, it's not that hard to replicate with core.

[Sebrent.3625]

@RainbowTurtle.3542 There we go.

And are you going to keep standing in healing spring when faced with a 1vX ;-)

The druid had full cleanse, superspeed, and stealth on a 10s cooldown (Druid mechanic in WvW) on top of access to Quickening Zephyr.

You have pointed out the core stuff that they took that anyone can take. What about the Druid-specific pieces?

Edited June 16, 2022 by Sebrent.3625
Added @

[Helly.2597]

49 minutes ago, Sebrent.3625 said:

I feel like this was glossed over or not even read ....

Yes, a Soulbeast can throw out more damage. That's obvious and not what was asked.

That player is taking advantage of Sword & Warhorn with Smokescale for more stealth and mobility on top of Druid mechanic for full cleanse, stealth, and superspeed and the root to help setup kills, escapes, etc..

Thoughts on that? 

Thoughts on how you would accomplish the same (or better) as a Soulbeast, Untamed, or even Core?

Not sure how you don't view it as answered. 

 

Druid is always going to have easier to access team play with CA and easier setup with automatic roots. The problem with druid is mainly why would I take it for this role over a thief or engi. So if you're a ranger main and want to play the role of a gnat druid is great but it doesn't offer much special. 

 

The true role that ranger has in wvw roaming that is unmatched is (ranged) burst (untamed offers a combo of melee and ranged).

 

Druid lacks ranged burst but gives more team play. You gain an oh kitten cleanse on CA and the most impactful "unique" aspect you bring is superspeed and stealth. Stealth can be achieved on each ranger spec through combos though. Roots are fine, but as soon as the enemy has a single scrapper or FB you're a noodle bot. 

 

Soul beast let's you actually generate a down with sic em burst. Also gives you better gap close and mobility with smokescale merge ability. Greater team play with aoe stab and one wolf pack in addition to aoe cleanse if you slot bear stance. 

 

Untamed as better setup with CC since you can control your pet fully and port means you have better mobility. Blast finisher on F2 means you can stealth allies or yourself easier with smokescale. You offer more than SB and druid don't such as boon rip and projectile block along with the 1shot potential of tailswipe. 

 

As for things like cleanse, every ranger spec has huge access to cleanse with the wilderness survival line. Sw/wh has minimal impact in fights and that's even seen in the video. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

12 hours ago, Sebrent.3625 said:

I feel like this was glossed over or not even read ....

Yes, a Soulbeast can throw out more damage. That's obvious and not what was asked.

That player is taking advantage of Sword & Warhorn with Smokescale for more stealth and mobility on top of Druid mechanic for full cleanse, stealth, and superspeed and the root to help setup kills, escapes, etc..

Thoughts on that? 

Thoughts on how you would accomplish the same (or better) as a Soulbeast, Untamed, or even Core?

 

To be blunt? That video is a waste of Druid.  

I watched the first fight, and it's far more a player competence issue than anything Druid specific. 

Taking power on a Druid is just...bad; for one, you are at odds with both ancient seeds and entangle as they do negligible bleed damage now.  If you are just using them for immob it's nonsensical as you are just stalling a fight you could win if spec'd for condi (because they are condi skills).

The player also did nothing with avatar form except the easy 3/5 combo...which again is pointless if you are just going to immob.  There is zero follow up damage here, because sword--well bluntly again--sucks, and longbow you better be going for an actual burst (like with sic' em + rapid fire) or it's a bad, bad weapon.  

Also, Smokescale does nothing for Druid because you have enough stealth through avatar, and pet damage is horrible.  Getting more stealth with warhorn blast is a waste, even more if you are running glass stats and not using the regeneration portion.  

So, again, I think it's just the people in the montage were less skilled.  Fast forwarding a little bit, you have a willbender that died to this druid, who did a maul...that CRIT for 2k.  2k.  A soulbeast could fart and do more damage than this.  

The long and short? Please never spec druid for power unless playing against absolute terribads.  

Edited June 17, 2022 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Sebrent.3625]

@Helly.2597 &@Gotejjeken.1267 Thanks. That's actually what I was hoping to get: a bit more conversation so I could better understand your thoughts. I like to share these sorts of things so I can see what others see and hopefully learn from that more than I would from just watching something alone. I'm also simply curious how other people think. I find that interesting.

 

@Helly.2597 When you say that the unique item that Ranger has to offer in roaming is ranged burst ... do you mean max ranged burst thus not in the same camp as 900 range or less?

I do agree with you about the usefulness of stances. There is some very nice power there aside from the burst (immune to CC conditions? Yes, please).

I'm not sure about your claim that Untamed has better mobility. Maybe better than Druid and then talking about mobility towards a target unless I'm missing something. As far as mobility vs Soulbeast, I look at a Soulbeast with Greatsword and a bird pet and that's two very long range swoops I think would be challenging to match. Not a teleport, but more flexibility in that it can be used towards or away from a target.

 

@Gotejjeken.1267 I was curious about power as a druid as well as I generally have the same thought that you do regarding Druid's synergy with condi. That being said, I find it interesting given that some builds are quite good at cleansing conditions and thus laugh at condi builds and Entangle and Ancient Seed do setup a target for receiving burst. How strong that burst is is a matter of stats and other 2 traitlines paired with Druid.

I'm curious from your smokescale comment which pet(s) you prefer. The smokescale's damage isn't doing what an Untamed Drake is going to do, but it's not Bear bad and it does also come with a CC as well.

 

@Helly.2597& @Gotejjeken.1267 It seems you both strongly favor heavy burst damage. Am I reading that correctly or are there cases where you trade off some of that burst damage for some other thing(s)?

It also seems neither of you values redundancy; at least not with regard to multiple sources of stealth, multiple sources of superspeed, etc.. Are there items you do value having redundancy in? I'm curious simply your overall thoughts around this. Simple example, I like having redundancy in condi cleanse as sometimes you need to not sit immobile and then possibly also cleanse a condi burst you failed to avoid.

Edited June 17, 2022 by Sebrent.3625
Added question about thoughts on redundancies in a build.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, Sebrent.3625 said:

@Helly.2597 &@Gotejjeken.1267 Thanks. That's actually what I was hoping to get: a bit more conversation so I could better understand your thoughts. I like to share these sorts of things so I can see what others see and hopefully learn from that more than I would from just watching something alone. I'm also simply curious how other people think. I find that interesting.

 

@Helly.2597 When you say that the unique item that Ranger has to offer in roaming is ranged burst ... do you mean max ranged burst thus not in the same camp as 900 range or less?

I do agree with you about the usefulness of stances. There is some very nice power there aside from the burst (immune to CC conditions? Yes, please).

I'm not sure about your claim that Untamed has better mobility. Maybe better than Druid and then talking about mobility towards a target unless I'm missing something. As far as mobility vs Soulbeast, I look at a Soulbeast with Greatsword and a bird pet and that's two very long range swoops I think would be challenging to match. Not a teleport, but more flexibility in that it can be used towards or away from a target.

 

@Gotejjeken.1267 I was curious about power as a druid as well as I generally have the same thought that you do regarding Druid's synergy with condi. That being said, I find it interesting given that some builds are quite good at cleansing conditions and thus laugh at condi builds and Entangle and Ancient Seed do setup a target for receiving burst. How strong that burst is is a matter of stats and other 2 traitlines paired with Druid.

I'm curious from your smokescale comment which pet(s) you prefer. The smokescale's damage isn't doing what an Untamed Drake is going to do, but it's not Bear bad and it does also come with a CC as well.

 

@Helly.2597& @Gotejjeken.1267 It seems you both strongly favor heavy burst damage. Am I reading that correctly or are there cases where you trade off some of that burst damage for some other thing(s)?

It also seems neither of you values redundancy; at least not with regard to multiple sources of stealth, multiple sources of superspeed, etc.. Are there items you do value having redundancy in? I'm curious simply your overall thoughts around this. Simple example, I like having redundancy in condi cleanse as sometimes you need to not sit immobile and then possibly also cleanse a condi burst you failed to avoid.

 

For pets, I find you get more value out of ones that can do multiple CC (i.e. Gazelle, Wyvern, etc.); I just prioritize on-demand pet CC over utliity (like smoke field) when I'm playing Druid.

For burst, only if playing certain setups like Longbow.  If running something like full melee, or using MH Axe then burst isn't as important as other things (kiting ability for melee, and might stacking on axe). 

Sometimes redudancy is ok too, I just don't like the setup that person has, as taking staff or gs over sw/wh still gives you extra stealth access if you take smokescale, and also yields way more utility than sw/wh has.  

Again, not that sword/wh don't have uses, it's just hard to find one for them on Druid right now.  Can utilize them better on untamed or soulbeast (i.e. might stacking on soulbeast from axe/wh + trait, or running full melee with sw/axe and gs, etc.).  

[Sebrent.3625]

@Gotejjeken.1267I'm often the same way with pets. I feel that having a good bit of CC alone is invaluable with any class I play and that being able to CC someone with the pet thus enabling it when I'm out of weapon range, line of sighting, CC'd myself, etc. is even better. I've actually been eyeballing the Sword on Untamed with Electric Wyvern as this gives you [Wyvern Lightning Assault for the Daze and Lightning field] --> [Ranger Monarch's Leap to daze the target with w/ Leap Finisher + Lightning] --> [use unleashed sword attack for another daze] ... just as something to play around with if nothing else.

 

For pet burst I generally rely on that if I'm melee (pet swaps and immediately casts a non-F2 tail swipe [Drake] or other ability) or very fast F2 like double bird pets (especially with Quickness). Otherwise I think the burst is good range or melee with Untamed due to the greater control.

 

As far as Sword vs Staff ... Staff has a longer movement skill with 1,200 range Ancestral Grace vs Monarch's Leap 600 range ... but Ancestral Grace has a 20s base cooldown while Monarch's Leap has an 8s base cooldown and comes with Serpent's Strike for an extra evade and poison application. You'd also have to short the use of Ancestral Grace's range to make use of it with the Smoke combo field for stealth. I think Monarch's Leap is more versatile in this case. It can even be better if after you've leapt an enemy leaps on you as Staff is now stuck with them on them but Sword can Hornet Sting to evade and get some space as well as immediately refresh Monarch's Leap. The Sword also comes with an off-hand so now you have a redundancy while locked into that weapon set for finishers with the combo field for stealth which is what it seems they went for here (along with perhaps extra daze, boons, and easy to hit ranged attack that provides vuln). So I don't think the Staff would be better than the Sword here.

... Greatsword I'd say competes far better. Built-in burst with Maul, Hilt Bash, Maul. The leap moves farther and evades at the end of it so it's useful even at close range into a target for the evade. I'm a big fan of the block and its kick as well. I think the Greatsword has far greater burst potential due to the one combo and then it comes down to block & evade vs evades and whatever offhand brings to the table which could be more evades, mobility, some range, or CC and burst as well. I do love Sword+Axe / Greatsword in a build with surges of Quickness and some CC to help make them eat Whirling Defense.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 minutes ago, Sebrent.3625 said:

As far as Sword vs Staff ... Staff has a longer movement skill with 1,200 range Ancestral Grace vs Monarch's Leap 600 range ... but Ancestral Grace has a 20s base cooldown while Monarch's Leap has an 8s base cooldown and comes with Serpent's Strike for an extra evade and poison application. You'd also have to short the use of Ancestral Grace's range to make use of it with the Smoke combo field for stealth. I think Monarch's Leap is more versatile in this case. It can even be better if after you've leapt an enemy leaps on you as Staff is now stuck with them on them but Sword can Hornet Sting to evade and get some space as well as immediately refresh Monarch's Leap. The Sword also comes with an off-hand so now you have a redundancy while locked into that weapon set for finishers with the combo field for stealth which is what it seems they went for here (along with perhaps extra daze, boons, and easy to hit ranged attack that provides vuln). So I don't think the Staff would be better than the Sword here.

 

For staff / ancestral grace, just remember you can reduce the CD by a lot by healing your own pet, and then even further (to ridiculous levels) if you equip Quick Draw.  The smoke field issue is reason I don't run smokescale as think celestial shadow is enough, but do have oddball cases where you can use it differently to throw someone off (i.e. grace into it and swap pet to get the CD and stealth, then keep kiting until weapon swap or you have avatar).

For other stuff, if you want poision application you can get that through WS trait, but at range with staff , and staff 5 is not only projectile denial it heals you (blast into it, stand behind it, etc.).  I also find if you can aim staff 4 the immob it gives is a free kite for you as the enemy has to break out of it.  Staff 1 also builds avatar like a boss.

But all this is specific to me, and it's because I love the kiting utility of staff.  Yeah gs is close, but the problem I have with it is it doesn't heal, but is the best defensive weapon we have outside staff for me.  I just don't like sword as a defensive option really anymore as sure you have leaps, but can be CC'd out of them pretty easy and weird things like hornet sting have awful frame delays making that evade hard to get, etc. etc.

[Sebrent.3625]

@Gotejjeken.1267I'm not following you on "you can reduce the CD by a lot by healing your own pet."

Quick Draw for 2 1,200 range leaps would definitely be nicer than 2 600 range leaps. However, you are giving up on the extra crit chance from fury, extra fury application, and extra ferocity to get that. We're also talking about a 66% reduction to 20s which is going to leave you still waiting over 7s for the cooldown ... putting you at worse than traited sword and almost as long as untraited sword.

Agreed on Refined Toxins. That should be sufficient in WvW since its ICD there is only 5s instead of the nerfed 15s in PvP.

The Staff root is nice, but they have Entangle, Ancient Seed, and Jacaranda's Embrace providing 3 entangles. A 4th immobilize might just be trolling at that point ;-)

So, now in this conversation you've talked about burst as non-ranger and now enjoying kiting and heals from Staff which is Druidonly and running condi as Druid. What is it you prefer to run w/ Ranger instead of what that gamer posted in their video?

[Gotejjeken.1267]

15 minutes ago, Sebrent.3625 said:

@Gotejjeken.1267I'm not following you on "you can reduce the CD by a lot by healing your own pet."

Quick Draw for 2 1,200 range leaps would definitely be nicer than 2 600 range leaps. However, you are giving up on the extra crit chance from fury, extra fury application, and extra ferocity to get that. We're also talking about a 66% reduction to 20s which is going to leave you still waiting over 7s for the cooldown ... putting you at worse than traited sword and almost as long as untraited sword.

Agreed on Refined Toxins. That should be sufficient in WvW since its ICD there is only 5s instead of the nerfed 15s in PvP.

The Staff root is nice, but they have Entangle, Ancient Seed, and Jacaranda's Embrace providing 3 entangles. A 4th immobilize might just be trolling at that point 😉

So, now in this conversation you've talked about burst as non-ranger and now enjoying kiting and heals from Staff which is Druidonly and running condi as Druid. What is it you prefer to run w/ Ranger instead of what that gamer posted in their video?

 

Basically condi immob druid, focus on maximizing bleeds is what I run.  Hardcountered by stuff like cele harb, and hard(ish) countered / stalemated by stuff with a ton of barrier or specs like spellbreaker, but for 85% of stuff it does very well.

For the staff question, there is a trick where if you pet swap at the end of your grace it counts for the CD reduction the skill has if you 'heal an ally'.  If you couple that with Quick Draw you can get it down to 6s or something (maybe lower, don't want to do the math right now lol).  But it's really two graces in a row if you do it this way.  

[anduriell.6280]

Cele Druid is garbage in WvW, annoying to deal with and little to none impact. I could elaborate why but in this thread others has explained it much better than I could ever do.

I know many of you would like the ranger to have more variety but this is not it. 

 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

My bro you gotta Power on Soulbeast and Condi on Druid with Cele stats.

The player in that video would double to triple his performance value this way

Edited June 19, 2022 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Canidae Canis.2861]

On 6/17/2022 at 4:36 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Basically condi immob druid, focus on maximizing bleeds is what I run.  Hardcountered by stuff like cele harb, and hard(ish) countered / stalemated by stuff with a ton of barrier or specs like spellbreaker, but for 85% of stuff it does very well.

For the staff question, there is a trick where if you pet swap at the end of your grace it counts for the CD reduction the skill has if you 'heal an ally'.  If you couple that with Quick Draw you can get it down to 6s or something (maybe lower, don't want to do the math right now lol).  But it's really two graces in a row if you do it this way.  

It is indeed lower than 6 seconds if you couple Quick Draw with the cooldown reduction from healing an ally (pet included). Quick Draw applies first, reducing the CD from 20s to about 6.7s. Then the 5s reduction from healing an ally applies to leave you with about 1.7s cooldown. So as Gotejjeken suggests, Weapon Swap to Staff > Ancestral Grace > Pet Swap right before AG ends > wait 1.7s > AG again. It's a fantastic way to get 2400 units away. Would be better if we still had the evade frames 😞

 

I always want sword to be better on ranger, and while it has some uses as a defensive rotation, its offensive capabilities are garbage. IMO it really needs a rework.

[Canidae Canis.2861]

On 6/19/2022 at 5:46 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

Cele Druid is garbage in WvW, annoying to deal with and little to none impact. I could elaborate why but in this thread others has explained it much better than I could ever do.

I know many of you would like the ranger to have more variety but this is not it. 

 

I wouldn't classify it as garbage. I've had pretty great success in roaming 1v1s and can hold ground in 1v2's long enough for help to arrive as a Cele druid. Axe/WH and Sw/Torch, NM/WS/Druid, smokescale and iboga. It's extremely tanky, plenty of cleanse, and can stack a good variety of conditions that make it hard for the opponent to clear. Downside is horrible, absolutely horrible mobility. You win or you die most of the time.

However it's basically a tough condi build with a bit of power, and like most condi builds it falls off quickly as group size increases due to group cleanses.

I do agree that we need something to help us compete in larger-scale combat other than pew-pew LB.

[anduriell.6280]

9 hours ago, Canidae Canis.2861 said:

I wouldn't classify it as garbage. I've had pretty great success in roaming 1v1s and can hold ground in 1v2's long enough for help to arrive as a Cele druid.

You are not wrong, if you go bunker any class can hold their ground against 1v2 in WvW simply because you can run around, just other classes (even a thief) does it better.  

The difference is other players can simply ignore you because you have no impact in the team fight. As I said, annoying. 

[Sahne.6950]

On 6/16/2022 at 9:42 PM, Sebrent.3625 said:

Thoughts on how you would accomplish the same (or better) as a Soulbeast, Untamed, or even Core?

https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Soulbeast_-_Condition_Trapper_SB_Roamer

If you want to play a ranger with emphasize on stealth, i can suggest this build. If you dont greed... you dont die. Simply stealth and then YEET away with your BirB. Pretty impressive build. Altho damage is lacking at times.

You should not underestimate the ammount of stealth that the normal sicem ranger can push out tho. 12 Seconds CD on a 3 second stealth with bow. And yet again 2 stealths on a 20 sec cd with smokescale/Gs3/Worldy impact. thats almost 50% of total time being in stealth if you really push it to the limit.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Sahne.6950]

16 hours ago, Canidae Canis.2861 said:

I wouldn't classify it as garbage. I've had pretty great success in roaming 1v1s and can hold ground in 1v2's long enough for help to arrive as a Cele druid. Axe/WH and Sw/Torch, NM/WS/Druid, smokescale and iboga. It's extremely tanky, plenty of cleanse, and can stack a good variety of conditions that make it hard for the opponent to clear. Downside is horrible, absolutely horrible mobility. You win or you die most of the time.

However it's basically a tough condi build with a bit of power, and like most condi builds it falls off quickly as group size increases due to group cleanses.

I do agree that we need something to help us compete in larger-scale combat other than pew-pew LB.

i know this build... my brother is running it.

The Damage.... is just not there. Anything with a atleast semigood cleanse will NOT die to it. You find yourself in alot of fights where simply noone is dying... and thats hella boring for me. Some builds that have condis as a weakness will die to it no doubt. But a build that has a constant flow of cleanses coming every now and then is completly immune to you. If someone doesnt want to die to you... he can simply run away, because you essentially have 0 mobility aswell.

 But it has incredibly sustainable just the hp from having prot and regen is more than enough to sustain alot of things. Theres also a trait in NM that proccs weakness which makes it absurdly annoying to fight in meele. A solid bunker... but thats it. If this build would work in pvp it would be without a doubt meta! but in WvW setting... not so much.

If you would run something similar with other stats it might work. But simply running full cele... you hit like a noodle. You are missing consistent mightgeneration to make cele work.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Sahne.6950

[Canidae Canis.2861]

2 minutes ago, Sahne.6950 said:

i know this build... my brother is running it.

The Damage.... is just not there. Anything with a atleast semigood cleanse will NOT die to it.  But its incredibly sustainable. Theres also a trait in NM that proccs weakness which makes it absurdly annoying to fight in meele 😧

It actually has reasonable condi burst but can be difficult to land if you can't immob them. Typically it's a dance until they get locked in a root, then the burst is Sharpening Stone + Splitblade > Winter's Bite > weapon swap to Bonfire > Throw Torch. If you have CA up use the daze to further lock them up.

But in the end, yes it can have trouble if the enemy has consistent cleanses. You really have to time the bursts well, but playing with iboga and torment sigil offers a lot of cover conditions to keep damage ticking. And it rocks against melee power specs! Essentially permanent protection and weakness from 3 different sources really allows you to laugh off most power damage.

And Anduriell - of course other classes can do it better 😛 Ranger's not in a great competitive spot in WvW, our skillset is outdated, we lack flexibility, and we have very little to offer in terms of party support. But we have to work with what we got! 

[Sahne.6950]

23 minutes ago, Canidae Canis.2861 said:

It actually has reasonable condi burst but can be difficult to land if you can't immob them. Typically it's a dance until they get locked in a root, then the burst is Sharpening Stone + Splitblade > Winter's Bite > weapon swap to Bonfire > Throw Torch. If you have CA up use the daze to further lock them up.

But in the end, yes it can have trouble if the enemy has consistent cleanses. You really have to time the bursts well, but playing with iboga and torment sigil offers a lot of cover conditions to keep damage ticking. And it rocks against melee power specs! Essentially permanent protection and weakness from 3 different sources really allows you to laugh off most power damage.

And Anduriell - of course other classes can do it better 😛 Ranger's not in a great competitive spot in WvW, our skillset is outdated, we lack flexibility, and we have very little to offer in terms of party support. But we have to work with what we got! 

you should try the build that i posted^^ it has constant condipressure from the Hawk f2. REALLY REALLY insane pressure. Even if you have good cleanse you will run out of cleanses after a few seconds of fighting. its 5/5 rating for a reason^_^

Edited June 21, 2022 by Sahne.6950