ArjukKagrim.6049 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) I had high hopes for the June Balance Update and what do we get? Yeah correct, a list of nerfs for catalyst. I agree it was necessary to adress cata-quick-stacking, but ANET did not adress this problem isolated but now nerf the normal dps build to death. I guess probably because cata has so much in-build utility and CC lol. But I get it, ele is not blue and catalyst ist not firebrand. Therefore we deserve to be put into the trash can. Not to mention that weaver is currently lacking in very many departments and is not adressed at all... A real big thanks to the balance team, which obviously does not have a single clue about their own game. Edited June 24, 2022 by ArjukKagrim.6049 24 1 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzuritaBlues.3206 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 (edited) very frustrating, hammer is a complete different weapon in PvE and in PvP now. The nerfs to jade sphere damage are also uncalled Both changes to Zephyr Speed and Raging Storm feels very ?????? Why bonus crit chance only in air? And fury uptime was already a restricting point in elementalist builds (except for catalyst) since we can't blast our fire fields for fury, the 8sec icd looks very underwhelming for pDpS builds that now will be forced to run Zephyr's Boon to upkeep fury during soloplay, it's not the end of the world but sure feels meh 😐 and finally we got some Staff Buffs...for PvP only. I mean, what?! Just apply those coefficient changes to PvE as well, its the most underwhelming weapon we have for this game type, the split is confusing for me. Also kinda funny how they reduced the cooldown of signet of Mercy in PvE, but didn't do the same to Glyph of Renewal 🤪 Edited June 24, 2022 by talesbfftt.4596 4 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradoxoglanis.1904 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 They have no idea what they are doing. Every single patch they just keep buffing necro and guard and then nerf everything else. 11 4 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace.1784 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 43 minutes ago, talesbfftt.4596 said: and finally we got some Staff Buffs...for PvP only. I mean, what?! Just apply those coefficient changes to PvE as well, its the most underwhelming weapon we have for this game type, the split is confusing for me. Applying the coefficient changes in PvE would be a nerf since the PvE coefficient for ice spike and lightning surge is 1.5 and 1.44, respectively, versus 1.13. 2 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzuritaBlues.3206 Posted June 24, 2022 Share Posted June 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, Vinteros Asteano.1209 said: Applying the coefficient changes in PvE would be a nerf since the PvE coefficient for ice spike and lightning surge is 1.5 and 1.44, respectively, versus 1.13. Yeah I know, I meant to increase it proportionally. Sorry if it wasn't clear 🙂 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volca.7234 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) Catalyst was buffed what the hell you talking about? the dmg nerfs were on autos which are not part of the meta rotation or any rotation for that matter, now u get fury without arcane or lighting, or SS as a base, meaning you can run a defensive trait lines instead and still get your fury and might protection etc tanky cata is buffed, power cata was buffed cuz rain of blows buff and the crit chance buff from new fury, AND YET u ppl say RIP cata? You people even like play the game????????????? Edited June 25, 2022 by volca.7234 1 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzuritaBlues.3206 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 36 minutes ago, volca.7234 said: Catalyst was buffed what the hell you talking about? the dmg nerfs were on autos which are not part of the meta rotation or any rotation for that matter, now u get fury without arcane or lighting, meaning you can run a defensive trait lines instead and still get your fury and might protection etc.. tanky cata is buffed, power cata was buffed cuz rain of blows buff and the crit chance buff from new fury (outside of ultra organized spotter grantee comps, we will have to wait to see the effect of choosing between lighting traits for the extra 5% or the ferocity conversion) , AND YET u ppl say RIP cata? You people even like play the game????????????? ugh, i mean not having baseline quickness anymore is already a big nerf. One of the selling points of cata was Ele finally being able to apply self quickness and now you can't do that without losing 10% of all your damage. You already had plenty access to fury by running either Energized Elements os Spetacular Sphere. Fire #2 on hammer and the spheres damage will also be nerfed ( and so is going to be the damage of DpS cata, rain of blows buff alone cant make up for the damage loss) The update is completely focused on group play and cata is probably going to be ok in that environment, but for solo play it is a nerf, no doubt. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volca.7234 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, talesbfftt.4596 said: ugh, i mean not having baseline quickness anymore is already a big nerf. One of the selling points of cata was Ele finally being able to apply self quickness and now you can't do that without losing 10% of all your damage. You already had plenty access to fury by running either Energized Elements os Spectacular Sphere. Fire #2 on hammer and the spheres damage will also be nerfed ( and so is going to be the damage of DpS cata, rain of blows buff alone cant make up for the damage loss) The update is completely focused on group play and cata is probably going to be ok in that environment, but for solo play it is a nerf, no doubt. Having baseline quickness while powerful meant u had to get your fury from some other source, mostly air/arcane, and since you talk about solo cata, on solo cata rn before the patch spectacular spheres is higher value than empowering aura, spectacular spheres gives around 15% higher dmg, while empower aura only gives 10%, unless you going for hybrid condi/power dmg cata that already runs high might generation elsewhere, heres the proof: singing strike base deal 745 (power+burn), (+empowering aura x5 = 819) or (+Spectacular Spheres(x5might burst) =872) So no solo cata was never nerfed, group cata dps isn't nerfed either cuz he runs empowering aura anyhow, hybrid group quick cata gains a higher dps from the innate fury and is now an extra boon he can provide on top of quickness so its also buffed despite the -10% outgoing dmg since quickness is 50% more dps resulting in 40% over all + the superior might of spectacular sphere to the empowering auras meaning its only a 5% nerf, and in group content power cata is higher than quick cata by only 15% which is a reasonable trade off as for jade orbs dmg nerfs in all honesty they shouldn't even pulse dmg and the tragic dps loss is only 10% MAXIMUM, with jade orb being fire deployed with the fire GS power condi bonus, so realistically its much less than 10% perhaps around 7%max not taking into account the fury and zephyr speed crit buff so its even lower than that. Edited June 25, 2022 by volca.7234 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joswi.2635 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 23 minutes ago, volca.7234 said: Having baseline quickness while powerful meant u had to get your fury from some other source, mostly air/arcane, and since you talk about solo cata, on solo cata rn before the patch spectacular spheres is higher value than empowering aura, spectacular spheres gives around 15% higher dmg, while empower aura only gives 10%, unless you going for hybrid condi/power dmg cata that already runs high might generation elsewhere, heres the proof: singing strike base deal 745 (power+burn), (+empowering aura x5 = 819) or (+Spectacular Spheres(x5might burst) =872) So no solo cata was never nerfed, group cata dps isn't nerfed either cuz he runs empowering aura anyhow, hybrid group quick cata gains a higher dps from the innate fury and is now an extra boon he can provide on top of quickness so its also buffed as for jade orbs dmg nerfs in all honesty they shouldn't even pulse dmg and the tragic dps loss is only 10% MAXIMUM, with jade orb being fire deployed with the fire GS power condi bonus, so realistically its much less than 10% perhaps around 7%max Doesn't that example right there just prove that it is a nerf? You say Spectacular Spheres right now has more value for solo play, plus that is also a source of fury without going into air/arcane. After the patch if you use that same trait you'll get quickness instead of the fury, so just flipping those around but you'll also have the 10% reduced damage. So the new version of Spectacular Spheres would be worse than Empowering Auras which is worse than current version of Spectacular Spheres according to your example. Now throw on top of that losing another 7% due to the sphere damage being nerfed as well. Seems like quite a bit of damage lost, not sure how that isn't a nerf and where it's a buff. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volca.7234 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Joswi.2635 said: Doesn't that example right there just prove that it is a nerf? You say Spectacular Spheres right now has more value for solo play, plus that is also a source of fury without going into air/arcane. After the patch if you use that same trait you'll get quickness instead of the fury, so just flipping those around but you'll also have the 10% reduced damage. So the new version of Spectacular Spheres would be worse than Empowering Auras which is worse than current version of Spectacular Spheres according to your example. Now throw on top of that losing another 7% due to the sphere damage being nerfed as well. Seems like quite a bit of damage lost, not sure how that isn't a nerf and where it's a buff. from the balance patch "In PvE only, it causes Deploy Jade Sphere in air attunement to additionally provide quickness and reduces all outgoing damage dealt by 10%" No there is no trade off between em, you get them both, (25% crit chance and 50% higher dps quickness + -10% out going dmg), and thats how it should be, i'd rather have empowering aura being the DPS trait, rather than Spectacular Spheres outclassing it in every situation outside organized pve, also imo even post patch Spectacular Spheres is still better than empowering aura 90% of the time if you are not raid DPS, resistance on earth and quickness+fury on air is really good. Edited June 25, 2022 by volca.7234 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joswi.2635 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 13 minutes ago, volca.7234 said: from the balance patch "In PvE only, it causes Deploy Jade Sphere in air attunement to additionally provide quickness and reduces all outgoing damage dealt by 10%" No there is no trade off between em, you get them both, (25% crit chance and 50% higher dps quickness + -10% out going dmg), and thats how it should be, i'd rather have empowering aura being the DPS trait, rather than Spectacular Spheres outclassing it in every situation outside organized pve, also imo Spectacular Spheres is still better than empowering aura 90% of the time if you are not raid DPS, resistance on earth and quickness+fury on air is really good. Yes, currently if you use Spectacular Spheres and you place an air sphere you get fury and quickness, that doesn't change in the new version you still get both boons but you also lose 10% on all outgoing damage dealt. That is a nerf plain and simple. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volca.7234 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 1 minute ago, Joswi.2635 said: Yes, currently if you use Spectacular Spheres and you place an air sphere you get fury and quickness, that doesn't change in the new version you still get both boons but you also lose 10% on all outgoing damage dealt. That is a nerf plain and simple. it would be only a real nerf if the duration of the quickness required you to run full diviner, which won't happen because sphere specialist increase 100% the base boons of the orb AND the Spectacular Spheres boons too. So nah its not really substantial, in fact over all still hybrid quickness cata is higher value than DPS cata by a long mile. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serephen.3420 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 4 hours ago, volca.7234 said: it would be only a real nerf if the duration of the quickness required you to run full diviner, which won't happen because sphere specialist increase 100% the base boons of the orb AND the Spectacular Spheres boons too. So nah its not really substantial, in fact over all still hybrid quickness cata is higher value than DPS cata by a long mile. I don't think you know the difference between buffs and nerfs. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mara.6782 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Anet balance elementalist for how good they are against the golem with all the boons up. Gatalyst quickness nerf do not lower the damage because you don't need to take that trait. Others will give you quickness but what about those who play solo or not organised party. They need to take that trait to get quickness and they lose damage. So Please stop balancing the game only looking how much damage someone can do to unmoving non attacking hitbox when you have all the boons on you. Play the classes yourself in pvp, www and pve with party and solo, and see what needs to be changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massimoni.9453 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 Well to be fair, it is rather unknown that the current catalyst bench isn't actually around 39k but rather 46k which is factually way too much. Therefore a nerf was sadly to be expected. Btw condi guardian also got hit with quite a noticeable nerf due to one variation (qfb) overperforming... This patch just sucks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solar.2083 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 As Ele main I enjoy using hammer catalyst in PvE why nerf it anet? 😞 maybe they only want us to play Firebrand and necromancer Ig. 1 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the krytan assassin.9235 Posted June 25, 2022 Share Posted June 25, 2022 43 minutes ago, Massimoni.9453 said: Well to be fair, it is rather unknown that the current catalyst bench isn't actually around 39k but rather 46k which is factually way too much. Therefore a nerf was sadly to be expected. Btw condi guardian also got hit with quite a noticeable nerf due to one variation (qfb) overperforming... This patch just sucks The problem is that it's almost impossible to consistently recreate that perfect environment for Cata. The difference between 9 & 10 stacks elemental empowerment is already the difference between 39k and 46k. Also the Cata pretty much needs perma alacrity for 10 stacks uptime, which is in open world/normal group content often not realistic. I bet most ele's wouldn't mind adding in a couple of small nerfs if they boosted the consistancy of the Cata's dmge output 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArjukKagrim.6049 Posted June 25, 2022 Author Share Posted June 25, 2022 (edited) I would be delighted to trade 4k dps for a certain "f3", and another 4k if i had 2 free utility slots with nearly no dps loss with the base utility kit from that certain class. Seems Anet does not stick to their word, it remains bring a certain profession not the one you like. This will remain as long as some builds and professions bring so much free and overly good utility. (but I guess the word utility does not exist in the mind of the balance team) Edited June 25, 2022 by ArjukKagrim.6049 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volca.7234 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 On 6/25/2022 at 9:41 AM, Serephen.3420 said: I don't think you know the difference between buffs and nerfs. If they didn't add the "-10% outgoing dmg" it would be a HARD NERF to power dps cata, the value prospects of power cata competing against quick cata would be a quick cata win every single time in every single encounter, simply put u will be told as power cata to either run quick or be kicked from the squad. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emberheart.8426 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 8 minutes ago, volca.7234 said: If they didn't add the "-10% outgoing dmg" it would be a HARD NERF to power dps cata, the value prospects of power cata competing against quick cata would be a quick cata win every single time in every single encounter, simply put u will be told as power cata to either run quick or be kicked from the squad. What are you talking about? The hammer and sphere damage nerfs affect both power and quick cata equally. All that the -10% damage does is nerf quick cata even more than dps cata. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volca.7234 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Ganathar.4956 said: does is nerf quick cata even more than dps cata. yeah now the dmg disparity between qcata and pcata is 20% dps, which imo should be even higher around 25%, also the hammer on pcata was no nerf, pcata doesnt use autos in rotation, i use autos even before the nerf it was a dps loss. Again read my reply in full Edited June 26, 2022 by volca.7234 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axl.8924 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 On 6/24/2022 at 9:18 PM, talesbfftt.4596 said: very frustrating, hammer is a complete different weapon in PvE and in PvP now. The nerfs to jade sphere damage are also uncalled Both changes to Zephyr Speed and Raging Storm feels very ?????? Why bonus crit chance only in air? And fury uptime was already a restricting point in elementalist builds (except for catalyst) since we can't blast our fire fields for fury, the 8sec icd looks very underwhelming for pDpS builds that now will be forced to run Zephyr's Boon to upkeep fury during soloplay, it's not the end of the world but sure feels meh 😐 and finally we got some Staff Buffs...for PvP only. I mean, what?! Just apply those coefficient changes to PvE as well, its the most underwhelming weapon we have for this game type, the split is confusing for me. Also kinda funny how they reduced the cooldown of signet of Mercy in PvE, but didn't do the same to Glyph of Renewal 🤪 One of the buffs looked to be a pretty big number for pvp WVW so it might make for decent support spec for offensive support for PVP WVW i hope the rest is kinda sad and ???. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berune.7408 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 (edited) Why are they nerfing Elementalist in PVE? Gah this is so frustrating! I have full ascended and focused/recommended specs, but I can't deal even half enough DPS on any of my elementalist specs to be allowed into a normal raid group by anyone. I'm not interested in PvP/WvW, and basically have to play solo pve all the time because that's all I am apparently capable of. Anet: Please just tell me which elementalist spec you want me to play in PVE so that I can be successful. I can not read your bloody minds! Edited June 26, 2022 by Berune.7408 formatting. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soulknight.9620 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 2 hours ago, Berune.7408 said: Anet: Please just tell me which elementalist spec you want me to play in PVE so that I can be successful. I can not read your bloody minds! Ive been asking same thing for years now. Obvious answer is - none. Dont play ele. You will get nerfed to oblivion. Thats why i just sit back, relax, get myself some cele OW builds and enjoy the ride. They cant nerf that lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the krytan assassin.9235 Posted June 26, 2022 Share Posted June 26, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, volca.7234 said: yeah now the dmg disparity between qcata and pcata is 20% dps, which imo should be even higher around 25%, also the hammer on pcata was no nerf, pcata doesnt use autos in rotation, i use autos even before the nerf it was a dps loss. I struggle to see how the difference is 20%. Taking the quickness trade results already in a 10% dmge loss. Not being able to take the dmge trait on aura's is another 10% (so already -20% dmge). Last but not least you're gonna have to take sphere specialist which results in another ~15% dmge reduction. And some extra boon duration Gear for another ~5% dmge loss. That means in Total you're looking at a -40% dmge loss which puts ele at the Bottom of the barrel. And after all that shite you got one of the most unreliable sources of quickness since it requires your group to Stay in the circle for the full duration Edited June 26, 2022 by the krytan assassin.9235 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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