Core spec Alacrity and Quickness and Why its a good thing.

[Lily.1935]

So this is more of an opinion piece so we'll start with that. I do think that giving some core specs access to these vital boons is a good thing for the health of the game and I'll explain why in a moment. Although I don't believe this is the best solution, it is a great solution to a problem that will occur if we are to grow the Guild Wars 2 population. I will explain both what I feel the pros and cons are. But ultimately I feel this is a step in the right direction on arena net's part even if the execution could use some work.

The free to play experience

For new players, understanding boons will be a challenge for them. Its somewhat a complicated system even if its quite simple once you get the hang of it. But giving players access to these vital boons means that these new players can form parties and fill all of the roles necessary with the core specs without the need to buy the game. So if a group of 5 friends want to try Guild wars out together, well they can form a team of core classes and achieve similar results because they will have access to an Alacrity class, Quickness class and Healer class as well as the DPS class. This will allow them to tackle the hardest content a free to play player could access. Mainly fractals.

Currently we only have 2 classes which can give either full alacrity up time or full quickness uptime being ranger and warrior respectively. However we have a good number of core classes which can heal quite effectively, Engineer and Elementalist being the first that comes to mind but necromancer and guardian both seem like decent options for a core spec group. And tanking is something the warrior could do or even the guardian or necromancer. This allows them to get a mix of guild wars 2 style of boon gameplay with the more traditional trinity of other MMOs which could hopefully offer a more natural transition into the environment of GW2.

Struggles with Gear

The Biggest flaw I see with this system is the gear. At the moment getting access to something like Ritualist, Harrier, Minstrel gear is both extremely difficult and expensive to do. And Free to play players would either have a hard time obtaining that gear or it would be outright impossible. to get a full set. Having access to the right stats for new players is probably the biggest flaw with this idea in my opinion but its not without its solutions.

If we continue with this idea, which I think we absolutely should, then gear with Expertise and concentration should be accessible to these new players through crafting or loot. The perfect place for them to acquire this gear and recipes is pretty obvious to me. DUNGEONS! Updating the Dungeon gear to give Viper's, Harrier, Minstrel, Ritualist, Plaguedoctor along with berserker, assassins, rabid in my opinion would be great. Dungeons at launch was how players got access to berserker gear initially because it was pretty expensive to craft at the time and allowing players to use the dungeon currency and drops to get access to vital gear is perfect as dungeons should be the bridge for these players to end game. Giving them access to exotic versions of this sort of gear needs to be available to them.

Balancing Future Elite Specializations

The second major flaw with this design is future elite specs. It means warrior can never be the alacrity spec and ranger can never be the quickness spec. This is an issue for sure, but there are solutions for this, though they're pretty messy. One such solution is for core specs to offer more traits when not using an elite spec and lock out the extra traits when you specialize. This is a solution that would work and some, like myself, would enjoy giving core specs more uniqueness compared to the elite specs but it is kinda of a feel bad for others so this solution would need to be approached with caution. Another solution is the balance the skills in such a way that It would be impossible for warrior/ranger to give both alacrity and quickness because of utility or trait requirements. That second one seems more likely to occur but that's a tight rope solution. You could always just say that they will never get access to group support with the other buff. Which might be a feel bad for those players.

 

Overall though, I do think its a great idea! I also think Arena net need to update gear accusation and dungeons(both mechanics and rewards) to make it work to their advantage. Without that, it will bite them in the butt later down the road. But I'll put my faith in Arena net and the team. I look forward to seeing how this turns out.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Lily.1935

[Ashen.2907]

I think that it is doubling down on a bad bet. Building encounters around a group comp that expects 100% uptime on quickness, alacrity, might, and fury creates an environment that limits build options for newer players and veterans alike. This is GW2's equivalent of forced trinity gameplay. 

[Lily.1935]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I think that it is doubling down on a bad bet. Building encounters around a group comp that expects 100% uptime on quickness, alacrity, might, and fury creates an environment that limits build options for newer players and veterans alike. This is GW2's equivalent of forced trinity gameplay. 

Boons have always been a part of the game and are core to the mechanics and how professions are balance.d To exclude specific boons from free to play players can only be a bad thing. And to reduce the roles of the game would have a similar situation we had at launch with a single armor set being used for all content. Requiring roles to complete content isn't an issue and the diversity of roles is a good thing.

Support+healer, support+damage support+tank or the pure versions of those builds are extremely fun to play. And if Anet went with what you're suggesting would be the 2012 Guild Wars 2 which was the game at its absolute worst.

[Ashen.2907]

36 minutes ago, Lily.1935 said:

Boons have always been a part of the game and are core to the mechanics and how professions are balance.d To exclude specific boons from free to play players can only be a bad thing. And to reduce the roles of the game would have a similar situation we had at launch with a single armor set being used for all content. Requiring roles to complete content isn't an issue and the diversity of roles is a good thing.

Support+healer, support+damage support+tank or the pure versions of those builds are extremely fun to play. And if Anet went with what you're suggesting would be the 2012 Guild Wars 2 which was the game at its absolute worst.

I did not argue that they have not always been a part of the game nor that they should be withheld from free players. Your point about them being (always) part of the game, before the existence of paid elite specs, proves that they are not being withheld from free players who have greater access to them now than veterans did at launch.

What I AM arguing against is the idea that the game should be based on an expectation of 100% up time for the mentioned boons.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Ashen.2907

[Lily.1935]

29 minutes ago, Ashen.2907 said:

I did not argue that they have not always been a part of the game nor that they should be withheld from free players. Your point about them being (always) part of the game, before the existence of paid elite specs, proves that they are not being withheld from free players who have greater access to them now than veterans did at launch.

What I AM arguing against is the idea that the game should be based on an expectation of 100% up time for the mentioned boons.

What do you mean 100% uptime? Because that argument in and of itself makes no sense. 100% for all of the game? you mean for open world, WvW, PvP, dungeons, raids, strikes, fractals and story? Because just saying "Shouldn't be based on 100% uptime" isn't an argument for anything. And I can't agree or disagree with such an abstract idea that you're saying shouldn't be the case.

[Forz.1725]

49 minutes ago, Lily.1935 said:

What do you mean 100% uptime? Because that argument in and of itself makes no sense. 100% for all of the game? you mean for open world, WvW, PvP, dungeons, raids, strikes, fractals and story? Because just saying "Shouldn't be based on 100% uptime" isn't an argument for anything. And I can't agree or disagree with such an abstract idea that you're saying shouldn't be the case.

Obviously they mean 100% during a fight encounter...

[Endaris.1452]

1 hour ago, Ashen.2907 said:

What I AM arguing against is the idea that the game should be based on an expectation of 100% up time for the mentioned boons.

 

Raids are most definitely not balanced around having permanent uptime on quickness.

Source: I participated in the meme month of Raiding League once where you had to kill Qadim in W6 with a set comp that had a pathetic access to quickness and no access to alacrity. In the slower one of the 2 kills we managed with that comp, we had more than 3 minutes left on the timer.
Check out this shameless plug, log is in the video description:

Note that the squad consisted of anything but hardcore gamers but instead of a relatively random group of interested people from RTI of which I know at least one person had only killed that boss only 2 times before we started that progression.

I have seen other meme runs like "only core classes", "no weapons equipped" that equally had relatively poor boon access and that had no serious issues killing raid bosses (and certainly with much less problems than we had on Qadim due to most fights being significantly less complex).

TL;DR: Raid encounters are very very beatable without relying on fantastic boons, it is the players that are maximizing their chance for success, thus creating a boon-reliant meta where they are the least likely to waste their time wiping all the time.

 

Edited July 14, 2022 by Endaris.1452

[Ashen.2907]

3 minutes ago, Endaris.1452 said:

 

Raids are most definitely not balanced around having permanent uptime on quickness.

Source: I participated in the meme month of Raiding League once where you had to kill Qadim in W6 with a set comp that had a pathetic access to quickness and no access to alacrity. In the slower one of the 2 kills we managed with that comp, we had more than 3 minutes left on the timer.
Check out this shameless plug, log is in the video description:

Note that the squad consisted of anything but hardcore gamers but instead of a relatively random group of interested people from RTI of which I know at least one person had only killed that boss only 2 times before we started that progression.

I have seen other meme runs like "only core classes", "no weapons equipped" that equally had relatively poor boon access and that had no serious issues killing raid bosses (and certainly with much less problems than we had on Qadim due to most fights being significantly less complex).

TL;DR: Raid encounters are very very beatable without relying on fantastic boons, it is the players that are maximizing their chance for success, thus creating a boon-reliant meta where they are the least likely to waste their time wiping all the time.

 

The devs say they are building the game, in terms of class balance, around permanent uptime. Of course some people, perhaps even many, can do without but if the devs are setting it as the stated expectation then players will, and do, as well. 

[Lily.1935]

19 minutes ago, Forz.1725 said:

Obviously they mean 100% during a fight encounter...

That doesn't help in the slightest. Which fight encounters?

Because I'm talking about the bridge to end game. And having access to vital boons and the corresponding gear to make use of those boons is important for new players to understand so they can begin to get into the systems they will be expected to know when tackling the harder content.

The game isn't balanced around 100% uptime, especially while leveling and I wasn't arguing for that, but rather that free players have access to build into that at end game if they want to play with those builds.

Support is a fantastic play style that shouldn't be locked away by the expansions. And as players are learning the systems they should also be given the opportunity to experiment with support before they dedicate to the expansions.

Edited July 14, 2022 by Lily.1935

[Serephen.3420]

My thoughts would be similar to the choronomancer treatment (at least the concept), where you could have the main core traitline like arcane for ele, strength for warrior, trickery for thief etc. and have separate grandmasters that offer either option. That way all specs could run one or the other, or neither if they want and specs can hopefully be built more interestingly again.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Serephen.3420
Goodness my typos were awful....

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

Core players have access to both Concentration and Expertise through Celestial gear, and access to Quickness by Warrior (well, kind of..) and access to Alacrity by Ranger.

 

Sure, Cele is a bit inconvenient in raids, but players without expansions don't run them anwyay.

 

So as soon as they fix Warrior banners, we're good? (This half-heartedly a joke, btw.)

Edited July 21, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508

[Voyant.1327]

I can understand the logic behind letting f2p have access to em, and if the game is determined to commit to this misstep of boons for all/everyone is a support philosophy.... They should.

That being said I'd like to see it go back to how it was before the 28th versus adding more personally. Groups were more fun to be a part of in casual settings....

If they stay though these boons should be accessible to all bc then at least there's a chance for some diversity & fun in group settings vs. what we have now. 

[Sobx.1758]

On 7/15/2022 at 1:22 AM, Lily.1935 said:

Because I'm talking about the bridge to end game. And having access to vital boons and the corresponding gear to make use of those boons is important for new players to understand so they can begin to get into the systems they will be expected to know when tackling the harder content.

They can learn about boon mechanics, even if they'll be using different boons than specifically alac/quickness. Claiming that they need access to these specific boons in core to learn about boons doesn't sound correct at all. And to access most of that harder content, they'll need expansions anyways.

Edited July 22, 2022 by Sobx.1758