Glyph of the Stars

[Soilder.3607]

Previously this skill had a 10 target cap, which in addition to its effects made it quite powerful. Consequently, it had a 7 second long channel to justify having this sort of power.

 

Recent nerfs to the skill have reduced its target cap from 10 to 5, which is a hefty nerf, especially for one that has a 7 second long channel, leaving you completely vulnerable for the duration of its casting. The 5 target cap no longer justifies the 7 second long channel that Glyph of the Stars has and so I strongly suggest that the skill be changed in some way to remedy this. For example, instead of being a 7 second long channeled skill, it could be given a 1/2 second cast time like the other glyphs and now instantly removes conditions and heals while applying resistance. In CA mode it could apply boons, heal, and instantly revive up to 5 allies instead of doing so over the course of 7 seconds.

[Kodama.6453]

Instantly reviving 5 allies with just 1/2 seconds cast time seems a bit much. The fastest full revive we currently have in the game is battle standard and even that one still has a 2 seconds cast time (and also having double the cooldown).

So maybe not instantly reviving allies in CA, but ticking revives like toss elixir r?

Edited July 18, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

Honestly, I wouldn't mind having a self-centered AoE for the skill. Everything is the same, but its a 7 second duration rather than cast time- 1/2s cast time sounds good.

 

This would very much so help with group condi cleanse and protection from condis, as you don't have to slap it down only for the group to decide they need to move.

 

The only notable use case of the skill in PvE is Slothasaur, as Sloth does an attack called 'coconuts', where they shoot out giant spores that apply 50 of some damaging condis. Glyph of the stars is normally taken to remedy this, but unless you're yelling st the group every time to 'run TOWARDS the thing applying 4x50 condis to you' so you can consistently place it they won't always know what you're doing, and that's not including if they don't move out of it. It's a very devastating attack that could easily be helped avoid by taking a druid (which has very little that you'd want compared to other things, struggles to keep 100% might uptime, and struggles to even keep up alac at times depending on if the fight targets player AI or not as spirits are terrible in their current iteration).

 

Instead of wrangling cats to get them into the glyph, you can go to them.

[Soilder.3607]

1 hour ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Instantly reviving 5 allies with just 1/2 seconds cooldown seems a bit much. The fastest full revive we currently have in the game is battle standard and even that one still has a 2 seconds cast time (and also having double the cooldown).

So maybe not instantly reviving allies in CA, but ticking revives like toss elixir r?

Yea it could do that or it could revive allies by a percentage amount, like 30% or so instead of an instant revive. The 1/2 second refers to the cast time that most of the other glyphs have and not cool down. I mean they could do a lot of different things to the Glyph to make up for its loss of 10 targets.

[Kodama.6453]

26 minutes ago, Soilder.3607 said:

Yea it could do that or it could revive allies by a percentage amount, like 30% or so instead of an instant revive. The 1/2 second refers to the cast time that most of the other glyphs have and not cool down. I mean they could do a lot of different things to the Glyph to make up for its loss of 10 targets.

My bad, typo. I meant cast time and not cooldown. But yeah, seems like a good direction for it with the partly revive or ticking revive. Just thought that having a full 5 man revive with just 1/2 cast time is really too strong.

[Beddo.1907]

2 hours ago, Soilder.3607 said:

instantly revive up to 5 allies instead of doing so over the course of 7 seconds.

I really don't like how this skill works (before and after your idea) and how similiar it is to the spirit.
The thing is, after this change we would get better Spirit of Nature. Half the CD, faster cast, gives boons instead of small healing and doesn't require you to spawn a spirit, with the only drawback being having CA active.
Personally I'd just rework it and shift the CA main usage from team revive to protecting the downed, where they get bonus DR and the revive ticks are only to speed up the reviving. (While also fixing SoN so it's not as annoying to use) 

[enkeny.6937]

10 hours ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

The only notable use case of the skill in PvE is Slothasaur

Keep construct too, There is always some people, who like standing in AoE, getting confusion until they go down. 

I like this glyph, but the 7 second should be duration, not casting. And because usually it is interrupted, Verdant Etching don't trigger.

oh, by the way, We need an indicator during the cast for the area. The stones are not very visible, and nothing shows the exact boundary.

[anduriell.6280]

The original design as garbage anyway, that ground targeted AoE  made no sense on the Druid were Glyphs were meant to be used also during the limited span the Avatar was available. Another brilliant idea from the same people who dislike ranger. 

I keep saying: Anet has to rework all the glyphs to work like the unity one, it drops tethers and the allies are buffed by such while tethered. Same for stars, same effects but while tethering the allies instead by using an channeling AoE. So the Druid can do other stuff while running the glyps. Just make them all to buff allies with the exception of tides, remove the damaging ones, remove alacrity from spirits and add it to  a Glyph and birng back the empower one. 

So Druid ends up with rejuvenation, empowerment, tides, Alacrity one, Unity and Stars. All of them working with the tethering. 

Edited July 21, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[enkeny.6937]

1 hour ago, anduriell.6280 said:

The original design as garbage anyway, that ground targeted AoE  made no sense on the Druid were Glyphs were meant to be used also during the limited span the Avatar was available. Another brilliant idea from the same people who dislike ranger. 

I keep saying: Anet has to rework all the glyphs to work like the unity one, it drops tethers and the allies are buffed by such while tethered. Same for stars, same effects but while tethering the allies instead by using an channeling AoE. So the Druid can do other stuff while running the glyps. Just make them all to buff allies with the exception of tides, remove the damaging ones, remove alacrity from spirits and add it to  a Glyph and birng back the empower one. 

So Druid ends up with rejuvenation, empowerment, tides, Alacrity one, Unity and Stars. All of them working with the tethering. 

I prefer the ground AoE and not the tether. Tether is an AoE around you, but once someone leave, they cannot go back. 

remove alac from spirits... Yes, kill the untamed alacrity, no dps alacrity build for rangers! we are too OP!
btw remove damaging glyph... ok Glyph of Alignment removed, but Glyph of Equality? Also Glyph of Tide and Glyph of Unity do damage too. Glyph of Empowerment was reworked with reasons. 
In the end we will get 12 skill with boon or heal. I prefer the variety we have now.

[anduriell.6280]

On 7/21/2022 at 12:24 PM, enkeny.6937 said:

I prefer the ground AoE and not the tether. Tether is an AoE around you, but once someone leave, they cannot go back. 

remove alac from spirits... Yes, kill the untamed alacrity, no dps alacrity build for rangers! we are too OP!
btw remove damaging glyph... ok Glyph of Alignment removed, but Glyph of Equality? Also Glyph of Tide and Glyph of Unity do damage too. Glyph of Empowerment was reworked with reasons. 
In the end we will get 12 skill with boon or heal. I prefer the variety we have now.

We may have different opinions because you probably main other classes but :

• Undeveloped does not need alacrity, it already has a trait for CD reduction. It does not need further self-access to more CD reductions than that. 
• Yes it is an mobile AoE around the druid  and that's the point. If other players can't keep  600 around the druid then that sounds more like a "they" problem. 
• Glyph of empowerment was removed for no reason actually. None was given, not at least which made sense. Other than "removing the druid from raids" .  Thing to be expected from a dev team which actually doesn't play the class. 

[enkeny.6937]

On 7/25/2022 at 8:56 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

We may have different opinions because you probably main other classes but :

• Undeveloped does not need alacrity, it already has a trait for CD reduction. It does not need further self-access to more CD reductions than that. 
• Yes it is an mobile AoE around the druid  and that's the point. If other players can't keep  600 around the druid then that sounds more like a "they" problem. 
• Glyph of empowerment was removed for no reason actually. None was given, not at least which made sense. Other than "removing the druid from raids" .  Thing to be expected from a dev team which actually doesn't play the class. 

I almost only play ranger

untamed alacrity give us an option for dps alacrity role, and untamed dps is better thanks to to weapon upgrade patches, but is not as good as soul beast, so at least untamed can be played in group contents.
Also, I don't think druid will be buffed so it can be alac dps.

tethered abilities not common, so the players won't try to understand when and while they are tethered or even notice it.
Btw "that sounds more like a "they" problem. " looks like team play!

Glyph of empowerment was removed because it was too unique. Same as alacrity, but it was removed instead of becoming common.

[anduriell.6280]

17 minutes ago, enkeny.6937 said:

I almost only play ranger

I would not consider afking in LA or jumping in the Mystic laboratory as “playing ranger”. And your reasoning below only reinforces this idea I got about how you spend the time with the ranger in game.

17 minutes ago, enkeny.6937 said:

Glyph of empowerment was removed because it was too unique

Exactly my point, for no real reason other than being an ignorant of the class and what it brings to the scene. 

17 minutes ago, enkeny.6937 said:

tethered abilities not common, so the players won't try to understand when and while they are tethered or even notice it.
Btw "that sounds more like a "they" problem. " looks like team play!

Not that common “yet” until all the glyphs are streamlined  into that mechanic. 

17 minutes ago, enkeny.6937 said:

untamed alacrity give us an option for dps alacrity role, and untamed dps is better thanks to to weapon upgrade patches, but is not as good as soul beast, so at least untamed can be played in group contents.

So you are saying undeveloped need stacking effects clearly op to function minimally in group content (and with that you mean fractals)

Thank you for proving my point that unplayed is a disappointing unmitigated garbage design and needs to be throw to the trash can and redone from the ground up. 

 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

On 7/21/2022 at 4:54 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

The original design as garbage anyway, that ground targeted AoE  made no sense on the Druid were Glyphs were meant to be used also during the limited span the Avatar was available. Another brilliant idea from the same people who dislike ranger. 

I keep saying: Anet has to rework all the glyphs to work like the unity one, it drops tethers and the allies are buffed by such while tethered. Same for stars, same effects but while tethering the allies instead by using an channeling AoE. So the Druid can do other stuff while running the glyps. Just make them all to buff allies with the exception of tides, remove the damaging ones, remove alacrity from spirits and add it to  a Glyph and birng back the empower one. 

So Druid ends up with rejuvenation, empowerment, tides, Alacrity one, Unity and Stars. All of them working with the tethering. 

 

Do...you even play ranger? 

Sure, let's kill build diversity by removing alacrity from spirits and moving it to...a glyph.  That's great, 4s of alac on a glyph every, what 20 seconds? On an elite spec...so forcing people to ruin Druid to provide it? That's absurd.

Also, altering Glyph of Equality is probably the worst idea I've heard in a long time--sure let's get rid of an instant daze or stunbreak for...lol, 'tethering'.  

Glyph of Stars needs to pulse stability around the ranger in addition to its other effects...that's it.  That's all the changes glyphs need.  

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

39 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

 

Do...you even play ranger? 

Sure, let's kill build diversity by removing alacrity from spirits and moving it to...a glyph.  That's great, 4s of alac on a glyph every, what 20 seconds? On an elite spec...so forcing people to ruin Druid to provide it? That's absurd.

Also, altering Glyph of Equality is probably the worst idea I've heard in a long time--sure let's get rid of an instant daze or stunbreak for...lol, 'tethering'.  

Glyph of Stars needs to pulse stability around the ranger in addition to its other effects...that's it.  That's all the changes glyphs need.  

Are you and I playing with the same druid glyphs?

 

At a base value, glyphs are just bad. It took making glyph of unity both having a 1.0 healing coefficient and healing off of passive heals (regen) to be considered good... and it isn't even that good. It's still not taken over spirits or the specific mechanic utilities you need. Glyph of Equality is ok at best... instant cast daze is decent in pvp, but there's so many things that ranger might end up needing to run that glyph of Equality isn't going to get as much milage as other utilities. Glyph of Alignment has some decent potential... until you realize the burst healing is locked behind your already burst healing utility mechanic that you'd be wasting your time with for the most part. Glyph of the tides is the only good one, being useful in pve for mechanics and pvp for disruption (although it got nerfed to hell and back so it could use a hand there). Glyph of the stars is used on 1 fight. Total. Slothasaur, for 1 attack (coconuts) that can be mitigated in other ways that can be even safer than using this 7 second long channeled piece of garbage. The revive isn't great either, since you have no stability or interrupt protection, meaning you can't even use it well in pvp/wvw in the CA flip.

 

Glyphs are garbage, and if glyphs got alacrity and spirits were just boon nukes it'd help druid a lot while also forcing them to look at the mistakes of the past and try to fix them.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

23 minutes ago, RainbowTurtle.3542 said:

Are you and I playing with the same druid glyphs?

 

At a base value, glyphs are just bad. It took making glyph of unity both having a 1.0 healing coefficient and healing off of passive heals (regen) to be considered good... and it isn't even that good. It's still not taken over spirits or the specific mechanic utilities you need. Glyph of Equality is ok at best... instant cast daze is decent in pvp, but there's so many things that ranger might end up needing to run that glyph of Equality isn't going to get as much milage as other utilities. Glyph of Alignment has some decent potential... until you realize the burst healing is locked behind your already burst healing utility mechanic that you'd be wasting your time with for the most part. Glyph of the tides is the only good one, being useful in pve for mechanics and pvp for disruption (although it got nerfed to hell and back so it could use a hand there). Glyph of the stars is used on 1 fight. Total. Slothasaur, for 1 attack (coconuts) that can be mitigated in other ways that can be even safer than using this 7 second long channeled piece of garbage. The revive isn't great either, since you have no stability or interrupt protection, meaning you can't even use it well in pvp/wvw in the CA flip.

 

Glyphs are garbage, and if glyphs got alacrity and spirits were just boon nukes it'd help druid a lot while also forcing them to look at the mistakes of the past and try to fix them.

 

I talk from competitive only (and strictly from WvW), could care less about PvE or sPvP.  

Only glyphs taken in WvW are equality and stars--adding stability to stars fixes all of its issues with getting CC'd out of it.

I don't know what else to say about equality, but if you are replacing it you are doing a disservice; it's an instant interrupt for 5 people around you--I can't tell you the number of times this skill alone has turned fights.   

So buff the other glyphs, change them--do whatever.  Just add stability to stars, leave equality alone, and leave alac on spirits.

[Soilder.3607]

I come from a WvW perspective and I play as a full heal and cleanse Druid quite often and sometimes I play as an Immob Druid which is a moderately different bar from full healing and cleansing, though both sets still use Ministrel Gear. I use all the Glyphs except for Glyph of the Tides because they do exactly what I want them to do, heal allies and cleanse conditions. I also play boonbrand and heal tempest.

 

The recent change to Lingering Light, while reducing the outgoing healing of Druid in CA mode by 25% (boo), has made it trivially easy to recharge Astral Force (yay). I almost never have to wait longer than the recharge time of CA mode and that's even with alacricity provided by my squad. Also, Lingering Light gives you Astral Force while outside of combat so I almost never enter a fight without having CA mode fully charged (this is a huge buff!!). I hope to God they keep it that way.

 

So onto the glyphs. Glyph of Equality cleanses 2 condi and is a group stun break in CA mode and I always run with traited glyphs so it also heals and ends up curing a third condi from the trait. Glyph of Alignment is a super strong heal (does around 8k in CA mode with full ministrels + modifers) that cures 2 condis + additional healing and a cleanse from the glyph trait. Glyph of Unity got buffed to activate every 1/2 second in CA mode, it used to only activate only once per second but this was unlisted in the tooltip. And it now triggers on passive healing so it's actually super strong right now and I always combo it with Rejuvenating Tides anyway so Glyph of Unity is great healing atm. Glyph of the Stars I still use because what it does is super duper strong but the nerf to 5 targets really sucks; when it was at 10 targets it was honestly great.

 

Glyph of Rejuvenation is a super strong burst heal, if used in CA mode it straight up heals for around 15k but what I do is I use it right as CA mode is about to run out and then switch out of CA mode that way the healing from it helps recharge CA mode and it will still heal for around 12k which is a ton. Although recently I've switched to Healing Spring because the cleanse is super strong.

 

So anyway with this setup I average around 5k healing per second in fights and I cleanse about the same as scrapper. Last time I ran with my guild I actually took top cleanse over our scrappers each fight by about 50 cleanses. Previously I wasn't getting top cleanse but I came pretty close but I was using Glyph of Rejuvenation at that time, and ever since I switched to Healing Spring my cleanses have gone up by a lot. It's a tradeoff essentially, more cleansing for less healing but as long as I stay above 5k HPS in fights I will accept the tradeoff.

 

Also Heal Druid has small radiuses for some important cleansing skills (Seed of Life + the seed from the Glyph trait) so in a pug tag it won't be as easy to cleanse whereas my guild sticks very tight to tag so I have no problem getting the full effect from those skills.

 

Point I'm making is that in WvW the glyphs are good as a supporter, but we agree that Glyph of the Stars needs some sort of buff to compensate for losing its 10 target cap. I don't play PvP anymore and I only do meta events in PvE (where I run as full heal druid anyway) so I can't really speak on balance in those areas.

 

Edited July 27, 2022 by Soilder.3607

[enkeny.6937]

5 hours ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I would not consider afking in LA or jumping in the Mystic laboratory as “playing ranger”. And your reasoning below only reinforces this idea I got about how you spend the time with the ranger in game.

Exactly my point, for no real reason other than being an ignorant of the class and what it brings to the scene. 

Not that common “yet” until all the glyphs are streamlined  into that mechanic. 

So you are saying undeveloped need stacking effects clearly op to function minimally in group content (and with that you mean fractals)

Thank you for proving my point that unplayed is a disappointing unmitigated garbage design and needs to be throw to the trash can and redone from the ground up. 

 

You are rude... 
(yes, ~30 000 AP with a single character is just afk/ jumping around, but i think it is off topic, so I just treat it an insult)

tether mechanic is useless in every split phase, be it harvest temple or keep construct.... 
If only druid will use tether mechanic, we will see the druids buried before the people learn the mechanic.
And it is common sense: what will you use: something that is useful 2/3 times or something that is always useful? 

Untamed is not so good, (I assume you agree, because you can't even write 'untamed' only nicknames).
but as alacrity is is useful. (oh, and group content I mean fractal, strike missions and raids)

Well "rework" is a solution for everything of course. Rework spirits, rework glyphs, rework untamed!
Than rework pets, pet AI, Rework the ranger profession, rework the whole GW2.  

I still like the idea, to let free to play players access group alacrity/quickness.
I like the diversity for ranger and the dps-alacrity is one of them. 
And druid is not for damage. 

[anduriell.6280]

@enkeny.6937you are missing my point: self access to  alacrity is OP  for  undeveloped. It is worrisome for Soulbeast too as it messes with the already spammy CDs.  The fact you keep insisting unplayed needs alac although it already has Fervent Force reinforces my point. 

Ranger Alac requests are  coming from raids, raids are being played by Druid, so alac should be limited to Druid to mitigate the impac in the rest of the specializations. That is game design 101. 

So you are saying Glyphs  tether will not be good in 2 fights in raids because of tether, so what. On the rest the mechanic is better than what it is now and requires the player to use their eyes to position themselves in the best spot. Less bots can make use of afk druids for farming. 

From a competitive standpoint answering to the usuals here: the good glyph in pvp was tides. Equality was never a thing and it was reflected by the fact that when anet nerfed  tides the Druid died in pvp. 

In any case I am not trying to convince any of you, if you think tether are not good, fine. if you think unplayed must have alac in the spirits because reasons, fine too. 
Not like the devs would ever consider to put any actual effort  in a class which they balance based on what is written In the wiki and whatever they read in their privileged secret discords with the usuals. 

Edited July 29, 2022 by anduriell.6280

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

12 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

@enkeny.6937you are missing my point: self access to  alacrity is OP  for  undeveloped. It is worrisome for Soulbeast too as it messes with the already spammy CDs.  The fact you keep insisting unplayed needs alac although it already has Fervent Force reinforces my point. 

Ranger Alac requests are  coming from raids, raids are being played by Druid, so alac should be limited to Druid to mitigate the impac in the rest of the specializations. That is game design 101. 

So you are saying Glyphs  tether will not be good in 2 fights in raids because of tether, so what. On the rest the mechanic is better than what it is now and requires the player to use their eyes to position themselves in the best spot. Less bots can make use of afk druids for farming. 

From a competitive standpoint answering to the usuals here: the good glyph in pvp was tides. Equality was never a thing and it was reflected by the fact that when anet nerfed  tides the Druid died in pvp. 

In any case I am not trying to convince any of you, if you think tether are not good, fine. if you think unplayed must have alac in the spirits because reasons, fine too. 
Not like the devs would ever consider to put any actual effort  in a class which they balance based on what is written In the wiki and whatever they read in their privileged secret discords with the usuals. 

While untamed does need something to make it remotely viable, and spirits have made it remotely viable (highest DPS for an alac in the game with condi alac, insane APM, if you mess up you can lose alac) I do agree that alac should be a druid thing. Fix spirits, make them good, and give glyphs an alac trait. That is ALL that is, at a base value, needed- change verdant etching for all I care.

 

Make it so we can take glyph of unity and bring alac for pve- that's the glyph with the most promise in pve, anyways. Fix the other glyphs, because glyph of alignment doesn't work well (you don't need more burst healing in your burst healing mode and your damage with the base glyph is horrible and there's at least 3 other better ways to disrupt than the base glyph of alignment), so it's useless everywhere, glyph of Equality might be useful if ranger as a whole didn't want so many of its other utility skills to be not dead weight, and glyph of the tides got nuked. I'd love to see alignment have healing on the base and disruption on the flip, same with Equality (stunbreak base stun flip). It doesn't harm druid as a whole in modes where you (for whatever reason) want Equality or alignment to disrupt and it works better in pve for a healer/support. Core ranger has very meh group healing and a utility that just heals would be nice, which flipping the flip of alignment helps fix.

[anduriell.6280]

I think  moving glyphs to be full on team support fits better with the Druid. Ranger already has other 2 specializations which can fill other roles (soulbeast as pure damage dealer and unwanted as bruiser) , so druid should focus fully into support and be good at it. 
 

the change to lingering light was another no-necessary and un-wanted nerf to Druid. It loses 25% outgoing healing in exchange for something that nobody asked for. It was easy enough to fill the astral bar before even the CD run out even in wvw just with the usual tools. 

offensive glyphs and traits can be reworked so the Druid is better to what is supposed to be: a good support.

equality and alignment can be replaced by the alac one and empowerment. Tethers to apply longer durantion of the effects on Ally as long as the players use their controllers.  Trait ancient seeds replaced by one which  makes the avatar last longer or reduce the avatar  CD and that effect moved to vine surge. 

druid to keep the original design of the wisps, lingering light used to be a wisp orbiting around the Druid which healed friendlies. 

All this have and very similar ideas been shared multiple times in this forums. Int he last 9 years We yet have to see any actual positive change to class. 

but what to expect when ranger is not within  the favorite bunch. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

20 minutes ago, anduriell.6280 said:

I think  moving glyphs to be full on team support fits better with the Druid. Ranger already has other 2 specializations which can fill other roles (soulbeast as pure damage dealer and unwanted as bruiser) , so druid should focus fully into support and be good at it. 
 

the change to lingering light was another no-necessary and un-wanted nerf to Druid. It loses 25% outgoing healing in exchange for something that nobody asked for. It was easy enough to fill the astral bar before even the CD run out even in wvw just with the usual tools. 

offensive glyphs and traits can be reworked so the Druid is better to what is supposed to be: a good support.

equality and alignment can be replaced by the alac one and empowerment. Tethers to apply longer durantion of the effects on Ally as long as the players use their controllers.  Trait ancient seeds replaced by one which  makes the avatar last longer or reduce the avatar  CD and that effect moved to vine surge. 

druid to keep the original design of the wisps, lingering light used to be a wisp orbiting around the Druid which healed friendlies. 

All this have and very similar ideas been shared multiple times in this forums. Int he last 9 years We yet have to see any actual positive change to class. 

but what to expect when ranger is not within  the favorite bunch. 

To be fair the LL changes are really nice for competitive modes. It's nice to, at the very least, not be required to glue yourself to someone in order to build up profession specific energy.

 

Should LL be buffed? Yes, absolutely. Did it need the healing nerf? No, if the burst was really (it wasn't, GoTL still BiS by far) too strong split it 25% extra in CA and 25% extra outside of CA so a certain dev can have his fun making stuff he doesn't like 'worse'. Should LL have gotten this treatment? No, druids should have gained some energy passively either as a baseline or on a worse trait. I'd love to see a wisp aspect come back, like staff 2 but self centered, from LL, or maybe even a different trait.