When someone doesn't understand what elitist and casual are

[Krzysztof.5973]

2 hours ago, Biziut.3594 said:

I'am starting to think that this topic never was about some "Wrong naming of guy being a kitten". It is all another rant about how other ppls dare to make groups with reqs and how they dare to do content succesfully when they can not.

I've seen some ppls suggesting Labjax and other guys to create their own "all welcome" runs. It would seem like perfect solution of their problem, squad without those evil restrictions they so despise. But! And there is a HUGE BUT. They will never do "all welcome" run becouse they are perfectly aware that this runs have nearly 0% chance of winning the fight, especially ones with harder mechanic. And so they will rant and scorn all of this ppls that actually put effort into creating the squad that have a high chance to clear the wing only becouse they cannot be one of them.

Too lazy to play and learn, but never too lazy to waste time on another pointless rant about imaginary toxic elitists.

OP probably felt personally attacked with the wording that's why this thread devolved so fast into a (insert kitten here)show. The longer we go on, the more I feel like it was OP that was this toxic guy from reddit screenshot. 

@Labjax.2465 I recommend the read: 

 

[Biziut.3594]

1 hour ago, Krzysztof.5973 said:

OP probably felt personally attacked with the wording that's why this thread devolved so fast into a (insert kitten here)show. The longer we go on, the more I feel like it was OP that was this toxic guy from reddit screenshot. 

@Labjax.2465 I recommend the read: 

 

I know it's almost impossible for him to be the same guy, but I would be lying if I'd say I didn't felt the same for a moment. Couldn't help it but he kinda gives out that kind of vibe.

[Sobx.1758]

5 hours ago, Labjax.2465 said:

I even explicitly stated in the OP an affirmation that "no one is owed a spot in your pug group," but I also added that "no one owes you a pug group that is tailored exactly to your desires" so I guess that's too far to point out it goes both ways?

It's not somehow "too far to point it out", it's just "pointless to point it out". The people you point it out to are the ones that are already creating the groups they want to see. You know that, but you don't care, you just want to angrily keep saying "NO U! 😣", even if it clearly doesn't make sense.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

6 hours ago, The Boz.2038 said:

If an LFG is listed "LF HAM W5 G2 10kp", and you
a) are not a HAM
b) do not know what W5 means
c) do not know what G2 means
d) do not have 10kp
maybe don't join that LFG that """"doesn't actually communicate any sort of restrictiveness""""? 
Like, just a thought?

Why should there be empathy for people who are all "The LFG didn't specifically tell me not to join by name, so I joined, lol"? 

Just give us a auto-lfg and we wont bother your l33t skills .

You can refuse people in the old lfg .

And we dont have to see bother you again (no longer checking every 3 min the lfg tab . Fire-once-and-forget)

Edited August 1, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Forum Moderator.3419]

Hello Everyone,

Just a reminder to keep it civil and avoid fighting with each other. I've removed some posts.

Regards.

[Biziut.3594]

7 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Just give us a auto-lfg and we wont bother your l33t skills .

You can refuse people in the old lfg .

And we dont have to see bother you again (no longer checking every 3 min the lfg tab . Fire-once-and-forget)

Why waste resources on implementing auto-lfg that would have hard time working in this kind of game design anyway (Profession ≠role). While you can just make "All welcome" LFG, and go back to doing stuff you were doing while waiting for it to fill. No wasting resources, and same effect you want anyway.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

18 minutes ago, Biziut.3594 said:

Why waste resources on implementing auto-lfg that would have hard time working in this kind of game design anyway (Profession ≠role). While you can just make "All welcome" LFG, and go back to doing stuff you were doing while waiting for it to fill. No wasting resources, and same effect you want anyway.

The technology exist (PvP).

And now that all clases are going to give boons , there is no need for "speciallized roles" . And  the encounters are created with 7-8k dps, not 100% boons

And in  the same time i dont have to check if a group is created every 1 min in the LFG + this type of threads and post can stop , with a single button

 

Edit:

There would be 2 outcomes from this .

People will use the auto-lfg and avoid the LFG sellers

Or get boycot , and there is no need for the company to spent more resources to instance content

(speed things up , die down the toxicity(majority will focus in open PvE) , focus in pvp areas)

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Biziut.3594]

4 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

The technology exist (PvP).

Yes, but PvP is just 5 ppls bashing each others so it works there.

6 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

And now that all clases are going to give boons , there is no need for "speciallized roles" . And  the encounters are created with 7-8k dps, not 100% boons

Apart from the fact that some classes are rather weak in giving boons compared to their stronger counterparts. (like guard or engi) But I guess this is no issue if you want to be mixed with diffrent players anyway, what is an issue that in raid bosses you have specific roles to fill, not only support and dps. How this system will filter out who have knowledge about doing greens on Dhuum, or HK Deimos, or do pylons ect.

 

13 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

And in  the same time i dont have to check if a group is created every 1 min in the LFG + this type of threads and post can stop , with a single button

If you create LFG with "All welcome" description, you will have exacly the same effect Auto-LFG would achive. Mix of diffrent players that would need to settle the roles before even starting a fight, not to mention the "incomfortable" situations in case of no one knowing how to do special mechanic. Who would you kick if everybody joined at equal terms?

I don't personally hate this idea, nor it is my intention to spite you, but imagine you work for Arena Net. How would you implement this system to work with all the diffrent setups that raid offer and more iportantly how would you convince Arena Net that it is a good idea to implement yet another LFG system instead doing more story, Gem store items, whatever stuff that makes money, take your pick. ^^

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

53 minutes ago, Biziut.3594 said:

Yes, but PvP is just 5 ppls bashing each others so it works there.

Apart from the fact that some classes are rather weak in giving boons compared to their stronger counterparts. (like guard or engi) But I guess this is no issue if you want to be mixed with diffrent players anyway, what is an issue that in raid bosses you have specific roles to fill, not only support and dps. How this system will filter out who have knowledge about doing greens on Dhuum, or HK Deimos, or do pylons ect.

 

If you create LFG with "All welcome" description, you will have exacly the same effect Auto-LFG would achive. Mix of diffrent players that would need to settle the roles before even starting a fight, not to mention the "incomfortable" situations in case of no one knowing how to do special mechanic. Who would you kick if everybody joined at equal terms?

I don't personally hate this idea, nor it is my intention to spite you, but imagine you work for Arena Net. How would you implement this system to work with all the diffrent setups that raid offer and more iportantly how would you convince Arena Net that it is a good idea to implement yet another LFG system instead doing more story, Gem store items, whatever stuff that makes money, take your pick. ^^

So the system will take 5 players , put them outside the instance(or they can maually telleport) and they bash the encounter (after they vote as normaly for the path)

 

There is no need to create a system to choose people who can do "greens on Dhuum, or HK Deimos, or do pylons ect". 

Just look at CM temple , every1 contribute to succed.

The Tank/2xhealer/1x mechanic-guy  meta  failed , because people will demand the rest of the 6 people to do 30k dps.

(who care really about the Raids , we can let them rot and focus in Dungeons+Strikes with the auto-lfg) .

 

The focus will to kick people that are going to afk and not people that can fullfil the same roles (what kind of raid-mentality is this?)

 

The company is scared (common we cultured 10 years a nice casual community (exluding the 260kp groups) , but in the same time is happy that mre people are not doing more instance .

I propose the "final nail" . Rip that T-Shirt and go in Rambo style:

a) if succed then ok

b) if people still don't like instance content , move the resources to other games (more pvp maps) .

Speed us the proccess , and less toxicity on the forums

Edited August 1, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 hour ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

The technology exist (PvP).

Do you queue into a role in PvP or you queue, get into a PvP match and then swap according to your team?(if you even swap to begin with)

[The Boz.2038]

I love how "just autolfg" is the panacea to everything, but nobody bothers with the fact that it will just not work. Nobody ever tries to hint at how it will work at all. "Just autolfg". Lol.

[Biziut.3594]

39 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

So the system will take 5 players , put them outside the instance and they bash the encounter (after they vote as normaly for the path)

It would work on dungeons too, I can agree on that but still dungeons can be literally facerolled, so if I want to do dungeons I just place my LFG titled as "p1", "full run" ect, and ppls are comming. Maybe not a one button but still nothing that I would consider as waste of time. One button to open menu, one to pick category, one to open writing window, few more to write something, one to post. And few of this clicking you would do on auto-lfg anyway.

39 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

There is no need to create a system to choose people who can do "greens on Dhuum, or HK Deimos, or do pylons ect". 

Just look at CM temple , every1 contribute .

The Tank/healer/1x dpo the mechanics , failed , because people will demand the rest of the 7 people to do 30k dps.

(who care really about the Raids , we can let them rot and focus in Dungeons+Strikes with the auto-lfg) .

Can't agree on that part since Raids are literally crown of Guild Wars 2 PvE endgame (maybe apart from that HT CM you mentioned for now, or maybe not, didn't try it myself yet and it's still considered new so I guess ppls must find out ways to do it), but still Raids are the widest and most demanding content in GW2, Dungeons -> Fractals -> and Strikes are meant to be the ramp for ppls to do Raids, so it is only fair to start thinking about Auto-LFG with primaly Raid branch of PvE in mind. So if the system you wish to have can't provide us with realistic means to kill a Raid boss, than it will be just wasted resource.

But all right, let's pretend Raids don't exist and Strikes are wearing the crown of the widest and most difficult content. It's not getting any diffrent, with or without your auto-LFG tool. You can still open your "All welcome"  in LFG which is still better and more efficient than Auto-LFG would ever be in that perticular game design.

With Auto-LFG you are forced to a group of ppl that may completly not know what they are doing.

With normal LFG you can find this: "you are forced to a group of ppl that may completly not know what they are doing." by just typing "All welcome" and pressing one button, just what Auto-LFG would do, but also you can pick already created groups, or state in your own LFG what you are looking for and what you are expecting. So unless your desired Auto-LFG system will be able to do better than that, than I am afraid it's not really an viable option to spend resources on.

 

Edited August 1, 2022 by Biziut.3594

[Juan.6124]

Make your own squad.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

30 minutes ago, Biziut.3594 said:

It would work on dungeons too, I can agree on that but still dungeons can be literally facerolled, so if I want to do dungeons I just place my LFG titled as "p1", "full run" ect, and ppls are comming. Maybe not a one button but still nothing that I would consider as waste of time. One button to open menu, one to pick category, one to open writing window, few more to write something, one to post. And few of this clicking you would do on auto-lfg anyway.

Can't agree on that part since Raids are literally crown of Guild Wars 2 PvE endgame (maybe apart from that HT CM you mentioned for now, or maybe not, didn't try it myself yet and it's still considered new so I guess ppls must find out ways to do it), but still Raids are the widest and most demanding content in GW2, Dungeons -> Fractals -> and Strikes are meant to be the ramp for ppls to do Raids, so it is only fair to start thinking about Auto-LFG with primaly Raid branch of PvE in mind. So if the system you wish to have can't provide us with realistic means to kill a Raid boss, than it will be just wasted resource.

But all right, let's pretend Raids don't exist and Strikes are wearing the crown of the widest and most difficult content. It's not getting any diffrent, with or without your auto-LFG tool. You can still open your "All welcome"  in LFG which is still better and more efficient than Auto-LFG would ever be in that perticular game design.

With Auto-LFG you are forced to a group of ppl that may completly not know what they are doing.

With normal LFG you can find this: "you are forced to a group of ppl that may completly not know what they are doing." by just typing "All welcome" and pressing one button, just what Auto-LFG would do, but also you can pick already created groups, or state in your own LFG what you are looking for and what you are expecting. So unless your desired Auto-LFG system will be able to do better than that, than I am afraid it's not really an viable option to spend resources on.

 

And i dont see the problem with an auto-lfg

You remove the hassle to type + the other 9 to check every 1 min the lfg .

Whoever is fan of that can use the old-lfg , i will not remove from them

 

With auto-lfg or not you are forced to meet people that dont know the mechanics.

Whoever wants experienced people can join the old-manual-lfg .

 

Essentially you nurture 2 different communities .

The old-20k-dps will remain the same and the goal is to try something different .

If it doesnt work , then the future resources (raids) will move to other areas or other UE5 games

 

That why i propose the "final nail". Vey-fast and effincient , so these types of threads wont ever pop up (otherwise i can try to choose 10-20people each day and make them feel how the casual are feeling . i am very gentle and i can get 10k posts in 7 months)

Edited August 1, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

2 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

And i dont see the problem with an auto-lfg

You remove the hassle to type + the other 9 to check every 1 min the lfg .

Whoever is fan of that can use the old-lfg , i will not remove from them

 

With auto-lfg or not you are forced to meet people that dont know the mechanics.

Whoever wants experienced people can join the old-manual-lfg .

 

Essentially you nurture 2 different communities .

The old-20k-dps will remain the same and the goal is to try something different .

If it doesnt work , then the future resources (raids) will move to other areas or other UE5 games

How would that auto LFG work then? You keep going on about it, but we still haven't seen you explaining it. 

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

3 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

How would that auto LFG work then? You keep going on about it, but we still haven't seen you explaining it. 

Choose 10 people in que . Party is formed .

You have to manually teleport in the instance , next to the TP

No need to look the lfg every 1 min

No more starring at empty lfg

Fire and forget

Edited August 1, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Biziut.3594]

39 minutes ago, The Boz.2038 said:

I love how "just autolfg" is the panacea to everything, but nobody bothers with the fact that it will just not work. Nobody ever tries to hint at how it will work at all. "Just autolfg". Lol.

Imagine if we lived in some alternate dimension where GW2 is as it is but only with Auto-LFG as a mean to find group for instanced content. It would be like:

W4 MO, 74th approach:

-Mixed with 4 rangers, 3 thieves, ele, guard and engi.

- I can do one mechanic so I pick Claim

-Time to ask who will do Protect and Dispel.

- -insert silence noise-

-But it's 74th group this week and it's tuesday let's give them a chance.

- -Guys we can't kill the boss without someone do the mechanic

- silence for two minutes and finally some two souls are saying that they can try but they never did it before.

- Menawhile (2 two rangers and engi left) replaced by two mesmers and necro.

-Try to explain the mech the best you can.

-Ask guard if he can heal one group and one of rangers another.

-Buffs, who need them, what is meta never seen it at this dimension.

- They say they understand

- Time for RC

- Spirits high, everyones excited.

- Fight started

- One ranger pulls out his long bow and runs to the other side of arena

- One thief do the same but with short bow, other thief have more courage and starts to hit boss melee... with sword and dagger.

- Two mesmers try their best but they "didn't saw", "got lag" and died on spikes.

- Mighty necro gave one second of quickness, a miracle you did not except you will remember this necro and his army of minions forever.

- Guardian and Heal ranger heals but they have a hard time since half of a group want to opposite patrs of the arena and it turns out guardian never healed before and is on zerg stats... with golden grade gear.

- You are the one last standing.

- boss have 72% HP

- thief and one mesmer start writing your name with big letters, "YOU CAN DO IT, WE BELIVE IN YOU".

- You leaving group.

- Whisper from Guard "Why did you left, we almost got it"

- Whisper from Ranger "Rage quit? Wow so toxic"

- You are asking yourself... "Time to change a game".

Edited August 1, 2022 by Biziut.3594

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

1 minute ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Choose 10 people in que . Party is formed .

You have to manually teleport in the instance , next to the TP

No need to look the lfg every 1 min

No more starring at empty lfg

Fire and forget

Okay, you mentioned that, but how does it sort players into the squad?  Randomly choosing people? We have that already, Public Strikes.

There's a reason Squads ask for Healers and boon DPS as well, if you have a healer giving Alac you don't want a DPS also giving Alac in that subgroup. What is the guarantee that your system will sort two Alacheals, two QuickDPS and 6DPS into the group?
Also, what about special roles, HK, Pylons on Qadim2? How would that work?

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

1 minute ago, Biziut.3594 said:

Imagine if we lived in some alternate dimension where GW2 is as it is but only with Auto-LFG as a mean to find group for instanced content. It would be like:

W4 MO, 74th approach:

-Mixed with 4 rangers, 3 thieves, ele, guard and engi.

- I can do one mechanic so I pick Claim

-Time to ask who will do Protect and Dispel.

- -insert silence noise-

-But it's 74th group this week and it's tuesday let's give them a chance.

- -Guys we can't kill the boss without someone do the mechanic

- silence for two minutes and finally some two souls are saying that they can try but they never did it before.

- Menawhile (2 two rangers and engi left) replaced by two mesmers and necro.

-Try to explain the mech the best you can.

-Ask guard if he can heal one group and one of rangers another.

-Buffs, who need them, what is meta never seen it at this dimension.

- They say they understand

- Time for RC

- Spirits high, everyones excited.

- Fight started

- One ranger pulls out his long bow and runs to the other side of arena

- One thief do the same but with short bow, other thief have more courage and starts to hit boss melee... with sword and dagger.

- Two greatesword mesmers try their best but they "didn't saw", "got lag" and died on spikes.

- Mighty necro gave one second of quickness, a miracle you did not except you will remember this necro and his army of minions forever.

- Guardian and Heal ranger heals but they have a hard time since half of a group want to opposite patrs of the arena and it turns out guardian never healed before and is on zerg stats... with golden grade gear.

- You are the one last standing.

- boss have 72% HP

- thief and one mesmer start writing your name with big letters, "YOU CAN DO IT, WE BELIVE IN YOU".

- You leaving group.

- Whisper from Guard "Why did you left, we almost got it"

- Whisper from Ranger "Rage quit? Wow so toxic"

- You are asking yourself... "Time to change a game".

Waitwait...wait...

The Raid encounters are created in mind of :

No trinity (without tanks , the boss will behave like a random boss that will randomly choose a player each 5 sec.Look at cm temple )

6-7dps

Not ascendant

'Not 100% boon .

 

There is no need to to tell a person to respect to healer .

And even so people like Boneskinner(before the kp groups showed) , we would had 4 healers and cheeze the mechanics

Not 100%

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

9 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

Okay, you mentioned that, but how does it sort players into the squad?  Randomly choosing people? We have that already, Public Strikes.

There's a reason Squads ask for Healers and boon DPS as well, if you have a healer giving Alac you don't want a DPS also giving Alac in that subgroup. What is the guarantee that your system will sort two Alacheals, two QuickDPS and 6DPS into the group?
Also, what about special roles, HK, Pylons on Qadim2? How would that work?

Which encounter you must need to have 100% boons ?

Do not confuse with bosses that have homugus HP (Soo Won , Sunqua Peak) . People already avoid them . And must we look in the future like CM temple , were the goal is to survive and not forcing some1 to do 20k (becuase forcing people to do rotations how their mastery of the game LOL !)

 

As far as roles ....yes we can have the cm temple "special roles" , where 6 people will try to go for greens.

Or any other open world where you stand of the green areas ....

Edited August 1, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

Just now, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Which encounter you must need to have 100% boons ?

Do not confuse with bosses that have homugus HP (Soo Won , Sunqua Peak) . People already avoid them . And must we look in the future like CM temple , were the goal is to survive

You mentioned an Open World boss and a Fractal boss in a context where are are talking about Raids.
Once again, how does your system sort specific roles in RAID encounters?
I don't care about you repeating "no need for 100% boons", answer my question, how will your system properly sort people. 

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

4 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

You mentioned an Open World boss and a Fractal boss in a context where are are talking about Raids.
Once again, how does your system sort specific roles in RAID encounters?
I don't care about you repeating "no need for 100% boons", answer my question, how will your system properly sort people. 

Ah you mean , you didnt read the paragraph , were i said that Raids is kinda wortless ...Sorry about that.

So..

Raids are kinda worhless and they should stay the way they are . Lets just create an ungly Legendary set and leave raids to the people that love them .

Lets focus the auto-;fgfor dungeons (so we can guide Stream players) and the new Strikes .

If it doesn work , then more assets to WvW+PvP

Edited August 1, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[Biziut.3594]

15 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

And i dont see the problem with an auto-lfg

You remove the hassle to type + the other 9 to check every 1 min the lfg .

If you consider writing single phrase "All welcome" a hassle than I do not know how to convince you. You literally write this single phrase, press enter and you dont need to check anything. The group will fill all by itself.

5 minutes ago, Killthehealersffs.8940 said:

Waitwait...wait...

The Raid encounters are created in mind of :

No trinity (without tanks , the boss will behave like a random boss that will randomly choose a player each 5 sec.Look at cm temple )

6-7dps

Not ascendant

'Not 100% boon .

Yes, yes everyone knows that pre-release fairytale that said about MMO without holy-trinity, but it is what it is... a fairytale meant to lure ppls to our wonderful world not really a thing. Good luck doing it without healers and some boons. (Not to mention special mechanics). Without picked tank on certain bosses the boss will target player with highest amount of Toughness and if this person will not know what to do in this situation or worse, will be on character that don't have any means of defence that sorry but that is going to be a wipe.

[Killthehealersffs.8940]

3 minutes ago, Biziut.3594 said:

If you consider writing single phrase "All welcome" a hassle than I do not know how to convince you. You literally write this single phrase, press enter and you dont need to check anything. The group will fill all by itself.

Yes, yes everyone knows that pre-release fairytale that said about MMO without holy-trinity, but it is what it is... a fairytale meant to lure ppls to our wonderful world not really a thing. Good luck doing it without healers and some boons. (Not to mention special mechanics). Without picked tank on certain bosses the boss will target player with highest amount of Toughness and if this person will not know what to do in this situation or worse, will be on character that don't have any means of defence that sorry but that is going to be a wipe.

All welcome = > is 13 types

And the other 9 , wont need to check every 1 min the lfg

 

If a content , needs tank and healers , then it failed and we better move to CM temple mode (survival .Why are we having this 2014 Hot pre-raid conversations...Why we must balance around dps meter to remove the cheesefactor ? You cheesed it with the scourges and you whine about mobility fights like the CM temple....)

Edited August 1, 2022 by Killthehealersffs.8940

[The Boz.2038]

7 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

You mentioned an Open World boss and a Fractal boss in a context where are are talking about Raids.
Once again, how does your system sort specific roles in RAID encounters?
I don't care about you repeating "no need for 100% boons", answer my question, how will your system properly sort people. 

"you don't need boons"
"boss changes targets random, no trinity"
"everyone pitches in"

Or something.