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Anyone ever experience a Mega-guild meltdown & is it avoidable?


Diku.2546

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Hey everyone,

Since Alliances is moving forward . . . it would be wise to discuss topics like this before it happen, or we risk not only losing a Mega-guild, but the whole WvW game mode that will have its foundation based on Mega-guilds.

Mega-guilds in my opinion typically have 500+ active members in a guild, or a series of linked guilds in a parent-child relationship.

Just sharing my personal experience that hopefully can help other guild leaders think carefully on how to prevent or reduce the collateral damage that this kind of incendiary event brings to your Mega-guild. 

Be prepared . . . because It happens fast & furious . . . and you'll be left crying to pickup the pieces of your Mega-guild in the ashes of the aftermath.

Meltdowns usually can be traced back to 2 major things . . . imho

1)  Power struggle to control the parent guild.

2)  "Stealing" members from the parent guild by officers of child guild(s).

I'm not sure if it's avoidable . . . given enough time & if a bad apple with a secret agenda gets into your Mega-guild.

If you have a solution . . . please feel free to share it with others here to learn from it.

Or, consider sharing what you've experienced as a warning on what to look out for.

If you're a Mega-guild leader . . . I hope you never have to go through this heart-breaking experience.

Yours truly,
Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.

#ToldYouSo

Edited by Diku.2546
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In the 10 years I've played this Game/Game mode, there was drama from the very  early months on my original Server, between the amount of  Active players and Guilds in WvW. So it seems only natural to have internal issues among a Server or potential Alliance, but things worked out okay eventually, apart from the time they brought in Server Linkings, which created even more issues.

 

 

Edited by CrimsonNeon.6712
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the power struggle, the different factions, the competition between different groups is the most fun part, I would say that it is the salt that puts the flavor to everything. the saddest part is that you could be a member of that alliance competing with the others, you could be in a good position in the standings and then see that alliance melt like snow in the sun, and find yourself on the street. but how after all that defense after all that commitment you canceled the alliance? 

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2 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

the power struggle, the different factions, the competition between different groups is the most fun part, I would say that it is the salt that puts the flavor to everything. the saddest part is that you could be a member of that alliance competing with the others, you could be in a good position in the standings and then see that alliance melt like snow in the sun, and find yourself on the street. but how after all that defense after all that commitment you canceled the alliance? 

Haiku reply - 5-7-5

Careful what you wish
A heart-attack can kill you
Too much salt is bad

Appreciate your feedback & hope you find this entertaining in a positive way.

Yours truly,
Diku
Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Edited by Diku.2546
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  • 1 year later...
Posted (edited)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Restructuring

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-guild-wars-2-in-spring-and-summer-2024/

My intent was to give a timely warning to the developers & community at large.

Hope the WvW community is ready for the Pandora's box that's about to be opened.

Granting guilds the power to control the shards of World Servers have a very high potential to create an extremely toxic ecosystem...imho

Things burn down very quickly if you're not prepared...and even if you are prepared...it can still burn down due to people's emotions.

This is another Deja vu moment on commenting on something that's about to happen...then it happens as posted.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1311428/#Comment_1311428

Yours truly,
Diku
Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Edited by Diku.2546
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4 hours ago, Diku.2546 said:

Granting guilds the power to control the shards of World Servers have a very high potential to create an extremely toxic ecosystem...imho

Because no one ever complain when links happen during all these years.

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Posted (edited)

Thank you Dawdler for your insight.  

This is a moderated forum.

Yours truly,
Diku
Credibility requires critical insight & time.

Edited by Diku.2546
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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, Diku.2546 said:

Granting guilds the power to control the shards of World Servers

That's not what is happening.  You're misrepresenting how teams are going to be formed.

Edited by Chaba.5410
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15 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

That's not what is happening.  You're misrepresenting how teams are going to be formed.

It seems likely that each "new server" will be generated from one or two mega alliance guilds and a handful of smaller guilds and players who didn't pick a guild. If you want to have any server continuity every time they rebuild the "new servers" then you need to be in one of the mega alliance guilds. If you are in one of the smaller guilds or didn't pick a guild then the 95+% of the people you play with will change everytime they rebuild the servers.

Right? So I don't think he was misrepresenting.

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12 minutes ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

It seems likely that each "new server" will be generated from one or two mega alliance guilds and a handful of smaller guilds and players who didn't pick a guild. If you want to have any server continuity every time they rebuild the "new servers" then you need to be in one of the mega alliance guilds. If you are in one of the smaller guilds or didn't pick a guild then the 95+% of the people you play with will change everytime they rebuild the servers.

Right? So I don't think he was misrepresenting.

So you're telling me 2 servers out of ...
lets see t5 in NA so 15 will have a problem ?

I'm okay with this let them suffer the consequences of stacking and making their own life miserable.

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18 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

That's not what is happening.  You're misrepresenting how teams are going to be formed.

 

19 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

That's not what is happening.  You're misrepresenting how teams are going to be formed.

If they stick to the idea that was in the beginning that each new virtual server = match has 2000 active players, then 1 so-called alliance will definitely not be able to control anything right away. Of course, big alliances can form a temporary alliance with each other, but I hope that Anet can accommodate enough casuals and small guilds between them so that this doesn't happen. The first 2 BETAs were the best. Then I saw many different big guilds running in different time zones in the same match. Later they changed something and the balance was not so good anymore.

But those who want to see more of the same gamers around them should join a larger alliance. Who likes nomad life stays alone or joins some smaller non alliances Guild. There is no point in over-dramatizing this situation. I also think that the vast majority of alliances created before BETA will not last.

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4 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

It seems likely that each "new server" will be generated from one or two mega alliance guilds and a handful of smaller guilds and players who didn't pick a guild. If you want to have any server continuity every time they rebuild the "new servers" then you need to be in one of the mega alliance guilds. If you are in one of the smaller guilds or didn't pick a guild then the 95+% of the people you play with will change everytime they rebuild the servers.

Right? So I don't think he was misrepresenting.

No guild is going to be able to "control the shards".  It's somewhat exhausting when an old forum participant who should know better drive-by necros their thread with such mischaracterized information about an upcoming change, leaving the rest of us to clean up that mess for readers who are new and trying to find out about the change.

Large guilds aren't going to have any more "power" than they do now on servers.

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Previous idea, before Alliances were shelfed and replaced with comm guilds, was that Alliances would be sorted across the new servers, then guilds, then solo players. All of which before being passing around would be rated based on average play times and counts (and later mentioned to be based on time of play). Now without Alliances we should have Comm Guilds and max guilds getting sorted against each other first and then filtering down in size from there and then individual players being used to fill in the gaps after that. With comm guilds yes you could see a mix that looks like another server received a very large guild and another server that is a bunch of smaller guilds against it since you wouldn't be able to see it was a comm guild that had the same number of players as the guild group being sorted on different servers since their numbers matched and were passed to different server assignments. 

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Posted (edited)

Let's agree to disagree.

My insight is that...

ANet will use guilds to create the shards of World Servers.

The foundation of all World Servers will be "cherry-picked"...as of yet...by some undefined mechanism to create World Servers that are "balanced".

What happens when one or multiple Mega Guilds suffer a meltdown?

Guilds are social based containers that are often highly interconnected.

What safety mechanics are in place to be a firewall against the emotional turmoil that I've personally observed myself as my own Mega Guild burnt down despite my best efforts to stem the inferno.

Current Server based Worlds have a natural built-in firewall.  Guilds on that specific World Server will break apart & leave, but the World Server identity itself endures & can be reborn as new guilds migrate to find better "pastures".

My concern is the long term health of the ecosystem of WvW.

Also, never underestimate the power of raw emotions & greed that I've personally experienced in a Mega Guild meltdown that secretly built up over a very long period of time & then suddenly explodes & burns uncontrollably.

We (actually ANet Devs through game mode design) need to be careful not to encourage a toxic cycle...given player's emotions & officers being able to pick & choose who is allowed to feed upon or to be sacrificed as the content.

Solutions that at its core that use Team Manipulation to balance World Servers never worked...which is exactly what server linking, language linking, and now this World Restructuring...has never delivered on the promises made to the WvW community on what it was designed to fix...imho.

Team Manipulation also prevents WvW from being able to evolve into a truly competitive game mode...imho

Yours truly,
Diku

Credibility requires critical insight & time.
#ToldYouSo

p.s.
This is not a necro post.  This post is extremely relevant in light of ANet's recent announcement:
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-guild-wars-2-in-spring-and-summer-2024

It’s happening! We’re excited to announce that the World Restructuring system will be moving into an always-on beta status beginning with the WvW reset on June 14.

Which is happening in 8 days.

Today is 2024.06.06

Edited by Diku.2546
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There's always drama. But I think you're overselling it.

Mega guild are being formed, from what I can see, of players from smaller guilds joining a new 'container' guild. This container guild has multiple leaders; one from each smaller guild. Players are choosing to select this container guild for WvW so they can play with other guilds with similar playstyles. But on a day-to-day basis, they're still repping and playing with their original guild.

Each matchup, guilds can choose to keep their container guild selected for wvw, join a new container guild, or just go it alone.

The big difference is that if I get guild kicked - particularly close to a new matchup - I could be easily removed from my wider network of WvW friends (though if nobody else would recruit you, are they such good friends?).

I'm pretty convinced that this will be more interesting than the current stale setup we have, even with such risk.

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