[Trait Redesign Proposal] Consume Shadows

[saerni.2584]

Consume Shadows

Enter/Exit Shadow Shroud: Converts up to 10% of Shadow Force to Heal up to 5 Allies (360 radius). Excess healing is converted to Barrier. 
 

While in Shadow Shroud: Convert up to 5% of Shadow Force to Heal up to 5 Allies (360 radius). Excess healing is converted to Barrier. Interval 3 seconds. Gain 1 stack of Shadow's Relief (Increased Outgoing Healing 10%, Interval 3 seconds, while in Shroud).

 

*Heal conversion is 50% of Shadow Shroud HP consumed with 0.33 scaling for Healing Power.
 

Justification: 

 

Consume Shadows has been a problem child due to excessive healing and (originally) promoting gameplay where Shroud was barely used. Now that Shroud has been nerfed the healing is less problematic but the trait still retains the stacking buff (an attempt to require some time in shroud) to increase the Shroud to Heal ratio. In effect, this is a Trait that has aspects of its design in place based on previous attempts to nerf it in light of other mechanics that no longer are in the game (RIP 1.5). Rather than attempt to rework the numbers at this point a new design is desirable. 
 

If Specter is to have a burst heal mechanic it should be associated with utilities and not a single trait. Consume Shadows is so heavy handed in comparison to other traits in the same tier, and it does too much too quickly. The stacking buff to get more healing feels more like a penalty for not using the shroud skills enough than a true bonus. 
 

By making this trait give some benefit up front (a smaller heal on entering and exiting shroud) and then pulse heal (which increases over time) it both provides support and gives out more consistent barrier (synergy with other traits). It also works well with the notion of effectively increasing shroud degeneration in exchange for boosting survival of those around you. 
 

Numbers are placeholders so feel free to give me math (not my strong suit) to argue something should be changed above.

[Vismooth.4128]

Overall, agreed.
Though I think it could've been better as barrier instead of healing, or maybe have it split 50/50 with extra barrier if it manages to flow over. Or a set value barrier with or without scaling. That is, for rot wallow venom application consistency, if anything else.

Any of these, including just your original suggestion would be far more functional than what we have right now.

[kash.9213]

2 hours ago, Vismooth.4128 said:

Overall, agreed.
Though I think it could've been better as barrier instead of healing, or maybe have it split 50/50 with extra barrier if it manages to flow over. Or a set value barrier with or without scaling. That is, for rot wallow venom application consistency, if anything else.

Any of these, including just your original suggestion would be far more functional than what we have right now.

Good call, that's where I'm at with that. OP's structure sounds fair and more in momentum with Stealth application or the new SA traits. Right now I'm deciding if I'm going to be a fight Shroud and not care about Barrier or a Bunker Shroud and Bunker Shroud isn't even sure to get any Barrier out there depending on what we're standing in. 

[nopoet.2960]

The op suggestion is better than what we have.  Honestly though, I wish Consume Shadows would just change Mind Shock so that it used all your shadow force and healed based on how much you had.  Basically just move all the the healing functionality to Mind Shock.  That would be way more straight forward.

[Gwynnion.7364]

Obviously, Specter is designed to have windows where you're in Shroud, e.g., while initiative is recharging, and Consume Shadows is meant to be a payoff at the end of that window.  It was heavy-handed because it's just about the only strong group buff the class has and to be a reliable way of applying Rot Wallow Venom by over-healing to barrier.  But it's clearly an inelegant solution.  I don't mind the OP's approach.  In fact, I think it reinforces that Specter is supposed to use Shroud as a support tool as well as a damage and CC filler, and that Shadow Shroud and other support should be group-wide instead of tied to a tethered ally.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

10 hours ago, saerni.2584 said:

Consume Shadows

Enter/Exit Shadow Shroud: Converts up to 10% of Shadow Force to Heal up to 5 Allies (360 radius). Excess healing is converted to Barrier. 
 

While in Shadow Shroud: Convert up to 5% of Shadow Force to Heal up to 5 Allies (360 radius). Excess healing is converted to Barrier. Interval 3 seconds. Gain 1 stack of Shadow's Relief (Increased Outgoing Healing 10%, Interval 3 seconds, while in Shroud).

 

*Heal conversion is 50% of Shadow Shroud HP consumed with 0.33 scaling for Healing Power.
 

Justification: 

 

Consume Shadows has been a problem child due to excessive healing and (originally) promoting gameplay where Shroud was barely used. Now that Shroud has been nerfed the healing is less problematic but the trait still retains the stacking buff (an attempt to require some time in shroud) to increase the Shroud to Heal ratio. In effect, this is a Trait that has aspects of its design in place based on previous attempts to nerf it in light of other mechanics that no longer are in the game (RIP 1.5). Rather than attempt to rework the numbers at this point a new design is desirable. 
 

If Specter is to have a burst heal mechanic it should be associated with utilities and not a single trait. Consume Shadows is so heavy handed in comparison to other traits in the same tier, and it does too much too quickly. The stacking buff to get more healing feels more like a penalty for not using the shroud skills enough than a true bonus. 
 

By making this trait give some benefit up front (a smaller heal on entering and exiting shroud) and then pulse heal (which increases over time) it both provides support and gives out more consistent barrier (synergy with other traits). It also works well with the notion of effectively increasing shroud degeneration in exchange for boosting survival of those around you. 
 

Numbers are placeholders so feel free to give me math (not my strong suit) to argue something should be changed above.

This is a great idea.

[Vidit.7108]

If this is a new change on top of the Shroud health nerf we already have then I don't think it really adds anything though in shroud i suppose it makes it more likely that the Condi-DPS specter gives allies rot wallow. I don't know how much it helps Heal-Specter since this trait interaction would be so different, I guess it depends on how long after you exit shroud Shadow's Relief lasts. If this is pulsing barrier and giving rot wallow venom it could potentially raise the dps on Alac specter quite a bit or by a lot on the carrion dps variant.

If you are also suggesting they give the health back along with this change to consume shadows sure I guess this is a fairer trade than the one they came up with. But I don't think after weeks of radio silence they are going back on that change any time soon.

Edited October 19, 2022 by Vidit.7108

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

57 minutes ago, Vidit.7108 said:

If this is a new change on top of the Shroud health nerf we already have then I don't think it really adds anything though in shroud i suppose it makes it more likely that the Condi-DPS specter gives allies rot wallow. I don't know how much it helps Heal-Specter since this trait interaction would be so different, I guess it depends on how long after you exit shroud Shadow's Relief lasts. If this is pulsing barrier and giving rot wallow venom it could potentially raise the dps on Alac specter quite a bit or by a lot on the carrion dps variant.

If you are also suggesting they give the health back along with this change to consume shadows sure I guess this is a fairer trade than the one they came up with. But I don't think after weeks of radio silence they are going back on that change any time soon.

It would greatly effect heal specter. It would allow for a larger shroud and not be as busted for carrion/ritualist type gear builds. Also it would widen build diversity.

[saerni.2584]

I'll chime in to say that giving Shroud additional HP scaling (or alternatively giving it damage mitigation like Necro Shroud) is certainly possible with the above proposal.
 

Obviously, the numbers above are to an extent based on stacking a decent amount of vitality. And, if there wasn't enough healing based on current vitality (and Anet sticks to 0.69), the pulsing heal conversion ratio could be fooled around with or the healing power scaling. It really goes to the question of how much healing should be innate to the vitality scaling and how much should come from healing power. My overall concern is making sure that if you give up ALL offense (like Magi) that you get "good" healing but not "excessive healing." 

 

What do people think the end goal of the heal numbers should look like?