I'm just going to read some untamed tooltips here. You'll get it.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

44 minutes ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

10/4 was very good for warrior, and I'm optimistic for the future under the new balance/skills team.

 

But Azure is right to point out that many professions have traits that are just stronger/better designed than Warrior's traits, including those introduced/modified on 10/4. That's something that I hope will be addressed moving forward, but, for now at least, the problem very much remains. 

It's either make warrior better or start nerfing other classes for real this time.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Give old Rousing Resilience instead of Might to Eternal Champion:

"Breaking stuns heals, grants stab and further increases toughness. gain toughness while in berserk mode"

😈

[oscuro.9720]

13 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

I refuse to believe they couldnt have brought warrior back into viability with the last patch, given how the lone feb 2020 patch absolutely broke warrior and we're feeling its effects til this day years after. it just means nothing productive was ever done

I’m just going to say that it is a lot easier to break things than it is to build them. 
And the new balance team, to their credit, has been cautious not to break too much, and fix problematically-broken things quite quickly (see; vindicator being cut back really soon after the patch. Previously that infinite dodge build would’ve been around for 3-6 months). 
Not that I disagree with you entirely, I just don’t think it was ever realistic to bring warrior all the way back in 1 patch. 

[eXruina.4956]

12 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

I’m just going to say that it is a lot easier to break things than it is to build them. 
And the new balance team, to their credit, has been cautious not to break too much, and fix problematically-broken things quite quickly (see; vindicator being cut back really soon after the patch. Previously that infinite dodge build would’ve been around for 3-6 months). 
Not that I disagree with you entirely, I just don’t think it was ever realistic to bring warrior all the way back in 1 patch. 

not in 1 patch is fair enough. even i acknowledged that much when feb 2020 first came out. yet where do we stand now 2022.

 

give me some substance to what are you getting at exactly, that they've done a good job?

 

ok admittedly oct 4 was a good job. but sadly theres tons of things left to be addressed.

 

or did you forget june 28 too, that was one hell of a slap to the face. if it didn't trigger a community outrage, do you think they'd have done something about it. no it would be set in stone.

 

and don't forget the discord leaks regarding the balance team, and how they go about their work.

 

vindicator sure, what about other broken, overtuned things out there. nothing. meanwhile tier 3 eviscerate hits for 4-5k same as tier 1, tier 3 killshot hits for 4-5k same as tier 1, autos hitting less than 1k in full power gear, and thats not accounting enemies with 3k armor and protection. you'll be hitting 3-400. warrior with no real way around it besides running spellbreaker and even spellbreaker is pretty garbage against that.

they have made no moves to fix or even improve warrior prior to oct 4, and it wasn't even impactful. the only thing truly impactful that went live was Resillient Roll and its a measly 2s of resistance compared to the perma prot, perma resolution, etc.. of other classes. other classes are spewing entire bars of boons.

heck bloody roar's been bugged way before oct 4 and its still bugged today.

 

you think thats balanced?

 

i'm saying it as it is. as much as i want to be positive i'm very much disillusioned.

 

another year is ending. what are the results?

 

if they were honestly focused on balance, real balance, competitive wouldn't be in the state is in. gap between warrior and other classes in terms of power and ability wouldn't be so far gone.

 

you can tell how much warrior doesn't have in comparison to other classes. its evident as day.

 

its easier to break things true. and they broke a mountian-load of things on warrior.

 

edited: toned it down, too much fire in me, not my intention but it just riles me up.🔥💢

Edited October 26, 2022 by eXruina.4956

[CalmTheStorm.2364]

10 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

not in 1 patch is fair enough. even i acknowledged that much when feb 2020 first came out. yet where do we stand now 2022.

 

give me some substance to what are you getting at exactly, that they've done a good job?

 

ok admittedly oct 4 was a good job. but sadly theres tons of things left to be addressed.

 

or did you forget june 28 too, that was one hell of a slap to the face. if it didn't trigger a community outrage, do you think they'd have done something about it. no it would be set in stone.

 

and don't forget the discord leaks regarding the balance team, and how they go about their work.

 

vindicator sure, what about other broken, overtuned things out there. nothing. meanwhile tier 3 eviscerate hits for 4-5k same as tier 1, tier 3 killshot hits for 4-5k same as tier 1, autos hitting less than 1k in full power gear, and thats not accounting enemies with 3k armor and protection. you'll be hitting 3-400. warrior with no real way around it besides running spellbreaker and even spellbreaker is pretty garbage against that.

they have made no moves to fix or even improve warrior prior to oct 4, and it wasn't even impactful. the only thing truly impactful that went live was Resillient Roll and its a measly 2s of resistance compared to the perma prot, perma resolution, etc.. of other classes. other classes are spewing entire bars of boons.

heck bloody roar's been bugged way before oct 4 and its still bugged today.

 

you think thats balanced?

 

i'm saying it as it is. as much as i want to be positive i'm very much disillusioned.

 

another year is ending. what are the results?

 

if they were honestly focused on balance, real balance, competitive wouldn't be in the state is in. gap between warrior and other classes in terms of power and ability wouldn't be so far gone.

 

you can tell how much warrior doesn't have in comparison to other classes. its evident as day.

 

its easier to break things true. and they broke a mountian-load of things on warrior.

 

edited: toned it down, too much fire in me, not my intention but it just riles me up.🔥💢

I get it; there's a lot of really frustrating things in the game and bad decisions that have been made over the years.

 

However, I think that it's worth noting that much of that happened under the "old balance/skills team." You'll note that the "new" team was formed after the discord leaks and the June patch debacle, so I suspect that ANet was trying to learn from its mistakes and make some personnel changes.

 

All that to say, don't forget the past, but do appreciate that it doesn't dictate the future. So far, the new balance team has introduced lots of good changes and has shown that it's willing to listen to community feedback (e.g. Regarding the proposed changes to scrapper gyros). They've given us reason to be optimistic, and they deserve the benefit of the doubt and a chance to truly prove themselves by implementing their balance philosophy. That will take time (and probably at least a few patches), so we'll have to be patient. 

[thaniretouni.4762]

warrior changes were good as long as we did have dmg through a bugged version of breaching strike. now that was fixed and warriors still below mediocre. until they change warrior's dmg in wvw i ll be playing other classes that have more dmg, escapes and group support all in one build

[eXruina.4956]

2 hours ago, CalmTheStorm.2364 said:

I get it; there's a lot of really frustrating things in the game and bad decisions that have been made over the years.

 

However, I think that it's worth noting that much of that happened under the "old balance/skills team." You'll note that the "new" team was formed after the discord leaks and the June patch debacle, so I suspect that ANet was trying to learn from its mistakes and make some personnel changes.

 

All that to say, don't forget the past, but do appreciate that it doesn't dictate the future. So far, the new balance team has introduced lots of good changes and has shown that it's willing to listen to community feedback (e.g. Regarding the proposed changes to scrapper gyros). They've given us reason to be optimistic, and they deserve the benefit of the doubt and a chance to truly prove themselves by implementing their balance philosophy. That will take time (and probably at least a few patches), so we'll have to be patient. 

aye the balance team has recently made a good showing, honestly it was unexpected, and much appreciated. 👍

 

the changes were good, but ultimately, reserved and un-impactful.

 

and i didn't know they restructured, as far as i knew nothing has changed, only that cmc is at the helm of the balance team, cmc who as far as i know was responsible for the feb 2020 patch, which together with previous unaddressed problems with the class, cemented warrior's horrendous game state and demise.

 

and if warrior fell to neglect years prior, its problems never addressed to the point they stacked up so horrendously, honestly what hope do we have of them actually going about fixing  warrior now.

 

i wonder, how many more years of worse than nothing, because, they didn't just not fix it, they broke it, literally, broke.. it..

 

all i can do now is defer to results, but i agree more positivity, i hope they do us justice. 💪

 

 

[oscuro.9720]

17 hours ago, eXruina.4956 said:

not in 1 patch is fair enough. even i acknowledged that much when feb 2020 first came out. yet where do we stand now 2022.

 

give me some substance to what are you getting at exactly, that they've done a good job?

 

ok admittedly oct 4 was a good job. but sadly theres tons of things left to be addressed.

 

or did you forget june 28 too, that was one hell of a slap to the face. if it didn't trigger a community outrage, do you think they'd have done something about it. no it would be set in stone.

 

and don't forget the discord leaks regarding the balance team, and how they go about their work.

 

vindicator sure, what about other broken, overtuned things out there. nothing. meanwhile tier 3 eviscerate hits for 4-5k same as tier 1, tier 3 killshot hits for 4-5k same as tier 1, autos hitting less than 1k in full power gear, and thats not accounting enemies with 3k armor and protection. you'll be hitting 3-400. warrior with no real way around it besides running spellbreaker and even spellbreaker is pretty garbage against that.

they have made no moves to fix or even improve warrior prior to oct 4, and it wasn't even impactful. the only thing truly impactful that went live was Resillient Roll and its a measly 2s of resistance compared to the perma prot, perma resolution, etc.. of other classes. other classes are spewing entire bars of boons.

heck bloody roar's been bugged way before oct 4 and its still bugged today.

 

you think thats balanced?

 

i'm saying it as it is. as much as i want to be positive i'm very much disillusioned.

 

another year is ending. what are the results?

 

if they were honestly focused on balance, real balance, competitive wouldn't be in the state is in. gap between warrior and other classes in terms of power and ability wouldn't be so far gone.

 

you can tell how much warrior doesn't have in comparison to other classes. its evident as day.

 

its easier to break things true. and they broke a mountian-load of things on warrior.

 

edited: toned it down, too much fire in me, not my intention but it just riles me up.🔥💢

I understand. A lot of what I’m saying has to do with solely Oct. 4, and the fact there’s a new balance team.
I don’t disagree with anything you said, but I’m looking at it as the work of the past balance leads (you know, the same ones who initially ran out banners with no skills on them). 

So my view is more; the one patch we’ve gotten recently shows the current balance team does seem to be focused on actual balance. 
I believe that any anger/flaming/frustration is fully justified. If there hadn’t been the balance team change, I would likely be quite a bit more harsh. I just have personal experience with the dramatic difference personnel change can make on how a project operates, and personally give the benefit of the doubt to the new personnel, especially given they had a strong first showing (October 4). 

[KryTiKaL.3125]

@eXruina.4956Just going to tag you rather than quote multiple of your posts because I want to sort of just respond in general to each of them.

First off I want to say that I agree Warrior still needs a lot of work. October 4th absolutely wasn't enough.

However, I would argue that the last Oct 4th patch is one of only two patches in the last 2 years that did actually have an impact for Warrior in a positive way (I don't count EoD release with Bladesworn because thats just the standard new Elite Spec better than everything else trend). The other one being the one that changed Banners. This last patch made Defense not completely dead. Is it 100%, fully, absolutely, incontrovertibly meta or even the thing that would fix Warrior? No. Is it better than the literal corpse it was? Yes.

This was talked about multiple times, mentioned multiple times before the Oct 4th patch even landed on these forums by multiple people, after we saw what the changes would be, that it wasn't going to be a fix all and Warrior would absolutely still need adjustments afterwards. This is how they need to be doing balance; iterative changes rather than huge sweeping, heavy handed bombs like they have done in the past that have either had literally no effect on balance or they just make things worse.

We'll see what November will bring, I'm honestly expecting it to not have so much focus on Warrior because it got so much in October, but if they keep up this trend of actually good changes then Warrior could get better given enough time. It is likely to be a good chunk of work but if they do a patch a month, or even just putting out a patch every other month, then I'd say thats a better balance update cadence for iterative changes. It makes since not to really have anything in December because its the Holidays.

Remember, the Feb 2020 balance patch turned out to be disastrous for Warrior because they didn't commit to it. They did not commit to the iterative changes that were absolutely necessary to do after such a paradigm shifting update, and they did not commit to the "trade offs" philosophy they tried to do which resulted in only a few classes actually getting "trade offs" and several (like Firebrand, and Druid, and others) just never getting a trade off. Ever.

Warrior did genuinely get so railroaded by that "trade off" philosophy because it was one of the first ones, if not only one, where every one of its Elite Specs had a "trade off". They deemed Spellbreakers 2 Adrenaline Bars as a trade off, and then they stripped away Berserker core bursts while adding the -300 Toughness to it. All of this while Warrior's damage, like every other class, got shaved by about 33% and CC skills no longer doing damage.

You're justifiably frustrated, I am too, but them actually making changes like they did in the Oct 4th update genuinely made me, who quit the game 2 years prior to this, actually reinstall the kitten thing again.

[eXruina.4956]

@KryTiKaL.3125 you're contradicting yourself in some accounts, and i have some disagreements, but i won't contest it, i see no point, i get what you're saying and you mean well. thanks. 🙂

 

i've given up actually, i'm just venting my frustrations in the forums, no amount of argument, point of view or fact from anybody here will change the state of warrior, neither you, me or whoever, and i know it, i'm not the brightest bulb, but i know that much with certainty.

 

its just a shame is all.