Suggestion to make Torch 4 and Radiant Fire less weird.

[zealex.9410]

This trait (Radiant Fire) and torch 4 (Zealots flame/fire) interactions can be weird for condi builds due to crit requirements but on top of that suffer from some bugs which support hero among others have talked about.

 

A main pain point is that radiant fire can proc as you go to press Torch 4 (Zealot's flame) which instead makes you fire the proc'd Zealots fire from the trait instead which will interrupt other actions you are performing such as laying down a symbol or using torch 5.

For me personally this isnt a major issue since you can keep track of it but for newer players or willbender players that really care about pressing as many skills as possible and not canceling active skills the trait can really mess them up.

The suggestion i have is that the trait is split into more functions.

First, crits would proc the Zealot's flame effect (the flaming pulse that comes from the player) without any effect on the skill itself.

Second, the trait would give Zealot's fire a second charge so whenever you press Zealot's flame the flip skill has 2 charges of Zealot's fire (regardless if you crit or not)

Thirdly the existing cdr (or not if you plan to remove it along with other cdr effects).

The effects this change would have is first, the skill wouldnt flip on its own which leads to mostly unwanted interactions (you always want to keep ahead of the trait) and second would make the skill/trait fully consistent which would make condi guardian alot more accessible.

Edited October 27, 2022 by zealex.9410

[draxynnic.3719]

Interesting proposal. I'd worry that it might be a strict buff rather than just a QoL change, since it'd remove the possibility of losing the chance to throw Zealot's fire if the crit happens while you don't have torch equipped. YMMV on whether that's a bug or a feature, but if it a concern, it could possibly be resolved by making it so that you get the second shot if you manually activate Flame while it's already running from the trait.

Possibly there'd need to be some visual indicator on the skill itself when this is the case so you can know when to use it.

[Fueki.4753]

I like how it currently works, so I don't think it needs to be changed.

[zealex.9410]

4 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Interesting proposal. I'd worry that it might be a strict buff rather than just a QoL change, since it'd remove the possibility of losing the chance to throw Zealot's fire if the crit happens while you don't have torch equipped. YMMV on whether that's a bug or a feature, but if it a concern, it could possibly be resolved by making it so that you get the second shot if you manually activate Flame while it's already running from the trait.

Possibly there'd need to be some visual indicator on the skill itself when this is the case so you can know when to use it.

I dont understand what you mean if you dont have torch equiped and radiant fire procs you only get zealot's flame anyways. If you mean ppl running torch abd some other oh then sure but i dont know any pve builds that do so and also i domt think its a big enough of a buff that would compromise the balance.

[Saiyan.1704]

I want to actually land Torch#4 instead of seeing my Norn yeet it 100 kilometers in the opposite direction because he saw the person take a side step... it's the biggest meme lol. Let's fix what's really broken.

[draxynnic.3719]

4 hours ago, zealex.9410 said:

I dont understand what you mean if you dont have torch equiped and radiant fire procs you only get zealot's flame anyways. If you mean ppl running torch abd some other oh then sure but i dont know any pve builds that do so and also i domt think its a big enough of a buff that would compromise the balance.

Primarily the latter. Firebrand tomes are a common reason for not having torch on your bar at the moment the trait procs.

There are also sometimes use cases for not having torch in both sets, albeit usually not when you're looking to get maximum damage.

[zealex.9410]

1 hour ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Primarily the latter. Firebrand tomes are a common reason for not having torch on your bar at the moment the trait procs.

There are also sometimes use cases for not having torch in both sets, albeit usually not when you're looking to get maximum damage.

The passive proc of zealot's flame wpuldnt change that would still happen on crit what would change is that it wouldnt flip torch 4 and that torch 4 would have 2 charges of zealots fire when traited.

 

Unless this is somehow a balance concern (good play assumes you never miss torch 4's so not much would change) then the proposed change wouldnt change guardian all that much.

[draxynnic.3719]

That's pretty much the concern. The current system means you have to limit your usage of weaponsets that lack torch lest there be a trait proc while you're using something else. It also means that you can't reliably just open the combat with two fireball throws, while with your proposal you would be guaranteed two throws every time you used the skill.

Not sure how significant it is overall, and it's probably more significant in competitive where you can't rely on a steady rotation. But there is at least potential to be more than a simple QoL change.

[zealex.9410]

18 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

That's pretty much the concern. The current system means you have to limit your usage of weaponsets that lack torch lest there be a trait proc while you're using something else. It also means that you can't reliably just open the combat with two fireball throws, while with your proposal you would be guaranteed two throws every time you used the skill.

Not sure how significant it is overall, and it's probably more significant in competitive where you can't rely on a steady rotation. But there is at least potential to be more than a simple QoL change.

From my experience at least guardian has high enough crit chance where you will togle torch 4 and then very fast will get a second charge of it.

[SentriX.3209]

I'd make it apply burning on every tick so if you have to interrupt it you'll at least get something out of it. Ofcourse spread the damage.

[Antina.5973]

You have my torch 🔥

This is one of the least fun traits to play with, and sadly every single condi build on guard uses it.

Edited November 9, 2022 by Antina.5973