My biggest "Pain point" with WvW atm

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

55 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think that a lot of people who complain about this are OW PvE'ers that have 3 choices to get their legendary armor sets together: PvP, WvW and Raids. WvW is the closest thing actually to OW PvE. It's not Raids; Raids require a deeper understanding of their classes and a higher skill level.

But  WvW is the least egregious mode for OW PvE'ers to play in. They can avoid the PvP aspect mostly and just focus on the PvE elements...but it takes a LOT longer than the other two game modes. But that still won't make them choose PvP or Raids. 

And well, OW PvE'ers may not "need" legendary armor, but that's entirely beside the point. They want it and they don't have it available in their preferred game mode, which is OW PvE. So as long as that's the case, in my view, OW PvE'ers will keep coming to WvW. And as long as the tickets don't come faster, they'll spend an even longer time in WvW. 

That seems to be the reality of things and I don't think that holding on tightly to certain opinions will change that reality.

 

Pvp takes longer than WvW to acquire the Legendary armor a total of 26 weeks vs 22

[Chichimec.9364]

10 hours ago, AlCapwnd.7834 said:

I came to WvW for the Gift Of Battle. I joined a WvW guild, Got in coms and had a really fun time. And WvW is now my primary game mode. I will say that our server has a lot of active tags though. I then also focused on the legendary armor. I did not find it annoying to farm the tickets at all. I was having a freaking blast! Just enjoy the game mode and it will come. I now have more tickets than i know what to do with.

This post most closely correlates to my own experience with WvW and its legendaries. Atm, I have all three sets of leggy armor, the backpack and my first Conflux. I'm working on the second Conflux right now and should have it sometime in December. Three things came together to make all that possible. First, I like WvW as a game mode. Second,  I play with a guild who's members I have fun running with. And finally, the legendaries gave me an excellent, long term goal to work toward while having that fun. I'm putting two hours a day, seven days a week into WvW and it's a blast for me too, not a grind at all.

That's my experience though and I feel lucky that an old, slow player like myself was able to get those legendaries while having such a good time. I really don't know what to say to those who don't like WvW and thus feel like it is a long, painful grind for them to get the leggies they want. If Anet were to do something to make it less grinding and painful for them, I wouldn't object or be upset. And I certainly wouldn't be upset if Anet were to give better rewards in WvW and/or figure out something meaningful for us to spend our skirmish tickets on once we've got all the leggies. Sadly, given Anet's track record in dealing with WvW, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for changes like that.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Chichimec.9364

[Gehenna.3625]

9 hours ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Pvp takes longer than WvW to acquire the Legendary armor a total of 26 weeks vs 22

oh right. I never looked into that because I hate PvP (in GW2 at least) and people always say that WvW takes the longest so I just assumed they knew what they were talking about. So I looked it up and it says that you need to complete 3 seasons of PvP, but also with a non-season month in between each season. So yeah, that does make it longer. Well, one more reason why OW PvE'ers would not choose the PvP route then.

[Karagee.6830]

9 hours ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Pvp takes longer than WvW to acquire the Legendary armor a total of 26 weeks vs 22

You can't compare the time investment in pvp v wvw. In the hours you spend to get diamond in wvw how many times will you get the final chest and rewards in pvp?

WvW has the lowest barriers to get legendary armor, but the time investment is many times higher than both pvp and pve.

[Karagee.6830]

39 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

oh right. I never looked into that because I hate PvP (in GW2 at least) and people always say that WvW takes the longest so I just assumed they knew what they were talking about. So I looked it up and it says that you need to complete 3 seasons of PvP, but also with a non-season month in between each season. So yeah, that does make it longer. Well, one more reason why OW PvE'ers would not choose the PvP route then.

You are not thinking straight. People can do the math on how many matches and hours of play are needed to get the Byzantium chest in pvp assuming Gold 2 or 3 (assuming this is the average player) rating and a 50% win rate.

A new player in wvw gets 6-8 pips every 5 minutes (with wood done the previous week) and needs 1450 pips to get diamond every week. Assuming 7 pips/5 minutes you need 208 ticks or 1040 minutes per week. That's roughly 17 and a half hours a week.

In 17 and a half hours you could play around 70 pvp matches (I counted 14.5 minutes per match including queue and set up). A 35-35 record at Gold 2/3 should get you Byzantium or very close. 

So the time investment for 1 week in wvw is about the same as a the time investment required for a whole season in pvp, if your goal is the leggy armor.

Pvp, unlike wvw and pve, also does not require to gear up and has significantly better rewards than wvw.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Jitters.9401]

15 hours ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

These acquisition times are due to the amount of effort needed to acquire, Raids/CM Strikes take a large amount of effort and preparation to acquire than WvW/PvP legendary armors. 

Never done a raid.

Never done a strike.

 

In WvW i have to keep moving and changing maps so I can make sure I stay at max participation. 

 

So question...

If someone spends 2 hours in a raid/strike (arbitrary number) while I am non stop moving for 2 hours in WvW to keep max participation...  then why is my effort considered less in worth by pve people? 

 

I'm literally moving non stop. I would actually like to run yaks and guard towers but to do so means I lose participation so I don't. 

[Karagee.6830]

1 minute ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Never done a raid.

Never done a strike.

 

In WvW i have to keep moving and changing maps so I can make sure I stay at max participation. 

 

So question...

If someone spends 2 hours in a raid/strike (arbitrary number) while I am non stop moving for 2 hours in WvW to keep max participation...  then why is my effort considered less in worth by pve people? 

 

I'm literally moving non stop. I would actually like to run yaks and guard towers but to do so means I lose participation so I don't. 

pve does not require you to play the game mode for 17 and a half hours a week. You may not be skilled/experienced enough to kill the raid bosses and so your expected weeks to get a leggy set my be double the theoretical minimum, but I reckon most people can pug their way to 12-15 LIs / week with a 3-4 hour time investment. And you need 150 LIs for the first legendary set. 

[Jitters.9401]

14 hours ago, BlaqueFyre.5678 said:

Time spent doesn’t equate to effort, raids require effort to learn the mechanics, effort to coordinate with others to do the content(can’t do it solo), effort to gear your character, effort to learn class/build rotations, and the effort to clear the content.

 

WvW just takes time and smacking a few sentries every so often and can be done in Masterwork/Rare gear

You have never stepped into WvW have you? What you just wrote tells me this. 

 

Pve mobs/bosses never change.  Once you know the rotation that's it. Easy Peasy. Do it until you win. 

 

I solo roam. I regularly fight multiple humans.  Not pve mobs or bosses that run the same abilities/patterns every time you fight them.

 

With humans you need to be aware of much much more than any pve battles. 

 

You need to be aware of the classes and sub classes. So one fight I come across could be condi virtuoso + mechanist. Another fight could be dps virtuoso + scrapper + soul beast.

 

Then by how they move/act/react I need to determine "On The Fly" are they bunker, are they glass, are they in the middle. 

 

I also have to figure out in a hurry their skill rotations used. I need to figure it out in the first 5 seconds of a fight as well as make sure to keep in mind at what point they use their heal skills so I can capitalize on that. That includes tricking them into thinking I am about to go down when in reality I am setting them up. 

 

No fight is the same unless it is the same person/people, same build(s), every time. 

 

When I took on 6 Humans and won. I had to move in a way to keep them huddled to where my aoe attacks could hit the max number. That means knowing who my opponents are (melee,ranged,mix thereof) and again, on the fly, changing how move to compensate for how they act.

 

I did world of warcraft and raided a lot. Once you knew the timing that was it. Succeed, don't succeed.  Either way you retry using the exact same rotations/skills till you succeed.

 

But wvw is infinitely more complex than simple pve.

 

In PvE you just have to learn a finite set of movement/skills/ and trust others to do their roles properly.

 

In WvW I have to figure out everything by myself while adapting... and that includes adapting to any changes they make to try to out maneuver me. 

 

So while you learn 10 things over a longer period of time that others figured out for you, I'm learning and adapting to 2x 3x 4x 5x as many things you are depending on how many opponents I face, in every fight, in a mere fraction of the time you used to learn repetitive patterns from pve mobs/bosses. I will even go through combat logs just to make sure I know where I am weak depending on what I just faced or to correct mistakes.

 

I write this using "I" but the reality of it is that everyone in wvw has to do this but with varying degrees of success. 

Edited November 1, 2022 by Jitters.9401

[Gehenna.3625]

15 hours ago, Zikory.6871 said:

If getting leg gear is the final goal. 6 weeks vs 22 weeks. Just crazy to me people would pick the 22 week option. 

I think you do not understand how much OW PvE'ers generally hate doing Raids. It's like sitting 22 weeks in uncomfortably warm water or 6 weeks in boiling water. That's how you should understand the mindset. In WvW you do not have to play in groups where you have to communicate with other people, you don't need to learn your class and master it (just like in OW) and you won't feel like you'll be responsible personally for bring your team down when you fail. 

For me, personally, as a raider in other MMOs, I really don't like raiding in GW2. The main reason is the boon system, but that's not the topic here. So I'd rather spend a lot of time in WvW than a relatively shorter time in raids. Difference is, I like WvW enough so it doesn't bother me. I even enjoy it a lot of the time actually (though WvW does have some issues that create massive imbalances at times). But it wasn't that great before I got to silver rank. I think you mentioned that.

But in the end for a lot of OW PvE'ers, WvW is the lesser of two evils by a lot, but the down side is that it takes almost 4 times as long to get WvW legendary armor. And a lot more time when you start WvW'ing, so it might take you a year in the end. And the amount of time it takes really infringes on their usual preferred content, so they certainly won't get to mithril and/or diamond really for a long time and that's assuming they can reach platinum, which isn't a given either.

And I know a lot of people are against it, but OW PvE legendary armor would solve that problem and a lot fewer OW PvE'ers will come to WvW, which should make staunch/dedicated WvW'ers happy because there won't be as many people just running along with zergs, but not joining it (because of the same issues as I described in the first paragraph) or simply running from from camp cap to camp, not really participating - but they do take up space on the WvW servers since the WvW maps have limited capacity and only one shard per map. And I don't think that problem will resolve itseslf with "Alliances" either.

[Karagee.6830]

6 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

You have never stepped into WvW have you? What you just wrote tells me this. 

 

Pve mobs/bosses never change.  Once you know the rotation that's it. Easy Peasy. Do it until you win. 

 

I solo roam. I regularly fight multiple humans.  Not pve mobs or bosses that run the same abilities/patterns every time you fight them.

 

With humans you need to be aware of much much more than any pve battles. 

 

You need to be aware of the classes and sub classes. So one fight I come across could be condi virtuoso + mechanist. Another fight could be dps virtuoso + scrapper + soul beast.

 

Then by how they move/act/react I need to determine "On The Fly" are they bunker, are they glass, are they in the middle. 

 

I also have to figure out in a hurry their skill rotations used. I need to figure it out in the first 5 seconds of a fight as well as make sure to keep in mind at what point they use their heal skills so I can capitalize on that. That includes tricking them into thinking I am about to go down when in reality I am setting them up. 

 

No fight is the same unless it is the same person/people, same build(s), every time. 

 

When I took on 6 Humans and won. I had to move in a way to keep them huddled to where my aoe attacks could hit the max number. That means knowing who my opponents are (melee,ranged,mix thereof) and again, on the fly, changing how move to compensate for how they act.

 

I did world of warcraft and raided a lot. Once you knew the timing that was it. Succeed, don't succeed.  Either way you retry using the exact same rotations/skills till you succeed.

 

But wvw is infinitely more complex than simple pve.

 

In PvE you just have to learn a finite set of movement/skills/ and trust others to do their roles properly.

 

In WvW I have to figure out everything by myself while adapting... and that includes adapting to any changes they make to try to out maneuver me. 

 

So while you learn 10 things over a longer period of time that others figured out for you, I'm learning and adapting to 2x 3x 4x 5x as many things you are depending on how many opponents I face, in every fight, in a mere fraction of the time you used to learn repetitive patterns from pve mobs/bosses. I will even go through combat logs just to make sure I know where I am weak depending on what I just faced or to correct mistakes.

 

I write this using "I" but the reality of it is that everyone in wvw has to do this but with varying degrees of success. 

Yeah PVE is BY FAR the easiest and least time consuming way to get legendary armor. Even if you only ever pug raids.

[Gehenna.3625]

7 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

You have never stepped into WvW have you? What you just wrote tells me this. 

Why would you think that being present for camp caps, running along with zergs and killing PvE mobs require you to master your class?

It feels more like you don't understand how participation clocks, ticks and pips work.

[Karagee.6830]

12 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

I think you do not understand how much OW PvE'ers generally hate doing Raids. It's like sitting 22 weeks in uncomfortably warm water or 6 weeks in boiling water. That's how you should understand the mindset. In WvW you do not have to play in groups where you have to communicate with other people, you don't need to learn your class and master it (just like in OW) and you won't feel like you'll be responsible personally for bring your team down when you fail. 

 

This is laughable. You don't have to communicate in PVE either, you just need to know your rotations and what you are supposed to do to deal with mechanics. That's it. And let's not talk about this ridiculous buff you get for 1 wing every week nowadays.

Also it's probably not your fault, you likely never learned that there are people raiding in WvW too and that all you said for PVE which isn't true, it is actually true for WvW. You need the gear, you need everyone to be on voice as people need to move together and use abilities and dodge as the raid leader ask them to and a sub failing to give stab, cleanses or boonstrip when required will almost certainly result in everyone getting killed. Unlike in PVE the only game mode where you can carry people at ANY level and for ANY content: not just any raid CM, but even HT CM is being sold now.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Gehenna.3625]

1 minute ago, Karagee.6830 said:

This is laughable. You don't have to communicate in PVE either, you just need to know your rotations and what you are supposed to do to deal with mechanics. That's it. And let's not talk about this ridiculous buff you get for 1 wing every week nowadays.

You do have to learn your rotations and you do have to know the mechanics, which you learn best by communicating with other players. And you do feel responsible for not performing up to par. What you think is easy, is not easy for everybody. You just don't want to understand a different pov.

1 minute ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Also it's probably not your fault, you probably never learned that there are people raiding in WvW too and that all you said for PVE which isn't true, it is actually true for WvW. You need the gear, you need everyone to be on voice as people need to move together and use abilities and dodge as the raid leader ask them to and a sub failing to give stab, cleanses or boonstrip when required will almost certainly result in everyone getting killed. Unlike in PVE the only game mode where you can carry people at ANY level and for ANY content: not just any raid CM, but even HT CM is being sold now.

Why are you talking about me? I just say that I understand OW PvE'rs. I am aware that there are raids in WvW but you don't have to participate in them to actually get legendary armor. 

So really, your comments are laughable.

[Karagee.6830]

10 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

You do have to learn your rotations and you do have to know the mechanics, which you learn best by communicating with other players. And you do feel responsible for not performing up to par. What you think is easy, is not easy for everybody. You just don't want to understand a different pov.

Why are you talking about me? I just say that I understand OW PvE'rs. I am aware that there are raids in WvW but you don't have to participate in them to actually get legendary armor. 

So really, your comments are laughable.

It's easy enough for me who play every game mode. It's definitely easier and MUCH faster than both pvp and wvw (gvg or raiding). And if you think that gg'ing in a raid CM encounter and getting hard carried is harder than flipping camps, then you are truly delusional. Most normal raid bosses can be done in 6 people, taking into account mechanics.  

I like how it's always subpar people with no kps who talk up PVE's difficulty in this game...

Edited November 1, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Gehenna.3625]

Just now, Karagee.6830 said:

It's easy enough for me who play every game mode. It's definitely easier than both pvp and wvw (gvg or raiding).

I like how it's always subpar people with no kps who talk up PVE's difficulty in this game...

WvW is easier than raids...if you only care about the pips. As I said before:

20 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Why would you think that being present for camp caps, running along with zergs and killing PvE mobs require you to master your class?

It feels more like you don't understand how participation clocks, ticks and pips work.

You don't have to participate in WvW Raids or organized groups to get your pips. So to get pips in WvW is definitely easier than Raids, but it does take longer.

[Noc Rubu.5804]

On 10/29/2022 at 9:11 AM, Moriartiy.6753 said:

After watching todays stream about the balance stream i want to share my personal biggest pain point with the wvw pain point which is totally unrelated to the games balance. 

This topic is probably a beat on a dead horse but I feel frustrated about so here goes,

 

having played a total of six hours today i earned about 600 Pips which earned my the gold Chest 140 Skrimish Claim tickets. You guys probably now were im going with this and kudos who everyone who has done it! 

I want to get the Legendary WvW Armor for which I need a total of 7880 Skirmish Claim tickets, the maximum amount I can get per week is 365 as long as i make it to the final chest.

Getting 7880 Skirmish Claim tickets takes a minimum time of 22 weeks making it to the final chest, to get the final chest I need 1450 Pips in 7 days. 

 

If I take todays result into account (which included the committed bonus Pip) my guess is that I will need to play round about 15-18 Hours of WvW per week for the next 22 Weeks If i want the Armor as fast as possible.

I know there are ways to improve one's tick by tagging up or getting to a higher level (which also takes forever) and I get that the mode is build for longevity but if we take a look at the Raid Armor in Similarity, I could get all three sets heavy, medium and light Armor in less weeks and probably less time played per week assuming I wont need 15 hours to full clear Wing 1-7 while I also getting way more rewards in terms gold, ascended items and the option to buy ascended gear for magnetic shards an option I don't have in WvW since every Skirmish ticket spend delays the Legendary Armor!

 

I get that the armor is gained more passively without a "collection" and you have to spend less other resources, also get that its a reward for those committed to the mode and I actually like the mode and will most likely play WvW after I got the Armor but this timegate in line with ascended gear using the same feels horrible and i wish there would be made a small change of either more pips baseline, more skirmish tracks you could earn in total per week or having the ascended gear using another currency until a proper solution for WvW rewards is found. 

 

I spent at least 20k of claim tickets to get my Legandary back piece for many of my toons, only to have them make it available for all toons... years later.  Can I get a refund on 20k of tickets I spent already when my gear was nerfed and not needed. 

[Gehenna.3625]

8 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

It's easy enough for me who play every game mode. It's definitely easier than both pvp and wvw (gvg or raiding). And if you think that gg'ing in a raid CM encounter and getting hard carried is harder than flipping camps, then you are truly delusional. Most normal raid bosses can be done in 6 people, taking into account mechanics.  

I like how it's always subpar people with no kps who talk up PVE's difficulty in this game...

Oh you changed your comments in between. Well Raids still mean interaction with other people and not everybody has the opportunity to get carried. You assume ideal circumstances for all 3 modes but not a lot of people have those circumstances.

I would stop calling me delusional though, such ad hominems only tell me that you don't have proper arguments and it's not conducive to the right atmosphere in a discussion. 

Edit: out of curiosity, why do you think that OW PvE'ers avoid raiding like the plague and come to WvW instead?

Edited November 1, 2022 by Gehenna.3625

[Karagee.6830]

2 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

WvW is easier than raids...if you only care about the pips. As I said before:

You don't have to participate in WvW Raids or organized groups to get your pips. So to get pips in WvW is definitely easier than Raids, but it does take longer.

Can we see your kps and achievements to just make sure you know what you are talking about? You can gg on every raid boss to get the LIs you need, that's why you have pretty simple collections to do for raid gear, but even for those there are ways around it. Either way you can get the LIs required in 6 weeks actually doing absolutely nothing other than gg'ing every 5-10 minutes

[Karagee.6830]

24 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Oh you changed your comments in between. Well Raids still mean interaction with other people and not everybody has the opportunity to get carried. You assume ideal circumstances for all 3 modes but not a lot of people have those circumstances.

I would stop calling me delusional though, such ad hominems only tell me that you don't have proper arguments and it's not conducive to the right atmosphere in a discussion. 

False. Everyone has the opportunity to get carried. You can just redo the encounters until everyone who needs the carry gets it.

You seem delusional because apparently you live in a make believe world where gg'ing in raids is harder/more time consuming than flipping camps. It's not an insult or ad hominem, it's a statement of fact that applies to anyone believing that a PVE set is somehow more challenging to get than a WvW or PvP set, when it can be fully carried in 1/3 or 1/4 of the time and, unlike the other game modes, you could get by with next to zero effort. If you don't believe that then it does not even apply to you.

If you just mindlessly farmed gold for 17.5 hours a week (<-time required to get diamond for most low ranked players) that would be around 350g just from the farming and with that you can even BUY your carries, you don't even need your friends to help you. What was it? No human contact?

Edited November 1, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

19 minutes ago, Soupeod.5714 said:

I spent at least 20k of claim tickets to get my Legandary back piece for many of my toons, only to have them make it available for all toons... years later.  Can I get a refund on 20k of tickets I spent already when my gear was nerfed and not needed. 

I mean what would you need 20k tickets for, once you have everything that can be bought with them?

Edited November 1, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Zok.4956]

45 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

You have never stepped into WvW have you? What you just wrote tells me this. 

A bold statement it seems. What you just wrote tells me this. 

 

47 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Pve mobs/bosses never change.  Once you know the rotation that's it. Easy Peasy. Do it until you win. 
(...)

But wvw is infinitely more complex than simple pve.

If a player coming from PvE just wants to semi-afk farm pips/tickets, he can do just PvE in WvW maps and just flip camps and maybe towers. And if he gets killed by a roamer/ganker he just ports and goes to the next camp.

Easy peasy (and boring). Do it until you did your time and got enough tickets. No PvP/WvW skill required. No teamplay, grouping or other interaction with other players required.

Of couse, there is a lot more (and a lot more fun) in WvW than semi-afk-pip-farming.  But a player that does not see / has seen those semi-afk-pip-ticket-farmers has probably never stepped into WvW. 😉

 

[Karagee.6830]

26 minutes ago, Gehenna.3625 said:

Edit: out of curiosity, why do you think that OW PvE'ers avoid raiding like the plague and come to WvW instead?

Any OW PvEr will quickly realise that the time investment and the months required to get 1 set of legendary armor in WvW are not worth it and will not stick around at 17.5 hours for 22 weeks. I know nobody with WvW legendary armor who isn't a WvW player, because, as other have explained, WvW leggy armor is not something people aim for as it's just unreasonable effort for people who don't enjoy or care for the game mode.

Any OW PvEr with some understanding will just gear a Mech or any FOTM LI spec and get into training runs for raids. That or play PvP which also requires less effort, even if somehow they end up with a silver rating. And while theoretically PvP is slightly longer than WvW, in practice the rewards are also much better (gold etc).

[Karagee.6830]

15 minutes ago, Zok.4956 said:

A bold statement it seems. What you just wrote tells me this. 

 

If a player coming from PvE just wants to semi-afk farm pips/tickets, he can do just PvE in WvW maps and just flip camps and maybe towers. And if he gets killed by a roamer/ganker he just ports and goes to the next camp.

Easy peasy (and boring). Do it until you did your time and got enough tickets. No PvP/WvW skill required. No teamplay, grouping or other interaction with other players required.

Of couse, there is a lot more (and a lot more fun) in WvW than semi-afk-pip-farming.  But a player that does not see / has seen those semi-afk-pip-ticket-farmers has probably never stepped into WvW. 😉

 

Another one without PvE kps touting PvE...my prediction above was eerily accurate.

Yes, in WvW you need 17.5 hours of semi active gameplay vs 2 hours of moving your character and gg'ing 25 times in PvE. I wonder which one is more active. I mean, even if you do play raids and don't get carried, with an equivalent amount of time investment as the one required in WvW you should achieve a level of proficiency with your PvE rotations to be able to speed clear any boss in any wing. 

Fallacies are fallacies.

Edited November 1, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

2 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

You have never stepped into WvW have you? What you just wrote tells me this. 

 

Pve mobs/bosses never change.  Once you know the rotation that's it. Easy Peasy. Do it until you win. 

 

I solo roam. I regularly fight multiple humans.  Not pve mobs or bosses that run the same abilities/patterns every time you fight them.

 

With humans you need to be aware of much much more than any pve battles. 

 

You need to be aware of the classes and sub classes. So one fight I come across could be condi virtuoso + mechanist. Another fight could be dps virtuoso + scrapper + soul beast.

 

Then by how they move/act/react I need to determine "On The Fly" are they bunker, are they glass, are they in the middle. 

 

I also have to figure out in a hurry their skill rotations used. I need to figure it out in the first 5 seconds of a fight as well as make sure to keep in mind at what point they use their heal skills so I can capitalize on that. That includes tricking them into thinking I am about to go down when in reality I am setting them up. 

 

No fight is the same unless it is the same person/people, same build(s), every time. 

 

When I took on 6 Humans and won. I had to move in a way to keep them huddled to where my aoe attacks could hit the max number. That means knowing who my opponents are (melee,ranged,mix thereof) and again, on the fly, changing how move to compensate for how they act.

 

I did world of warcraft and raided a lot. Once you knew the timing that was it. Succeed, don't succeed.  Either way you retry using the exact same rotations/skills till you succeed.

 

But wvw is infinitely more complex than simple pve.

 

In PvE you just have to learn a finite set of movement/skills/ and trust others to do their roles properly.

 

In WvW I have to figure out everything by myself while adapting... and that includes adapting to any changes they make to try to out maneuver me. 

 

So while you learn 10 things over a longer period of time that others figured out for you, I'm learning and adapting to 2x 3x 4x 5x as many things you are depending on how many opponents I face, in every fight, in a mere fraction of the time you used to learn repetitive patterns from pve mobs/bosses. I will even go through combat logs just to make sure I know where I am weak depending on what I just faced or to correct mistakes.

 

I write this using "I" but the reality of it is that everyone in wvw has to do this but with varying degrees of success. 

You’re making a lot of assumptions there but you should read what I actually wrote.

Just because you choose to fight others doesn’t mean you are required to do so and that the ability to acquire legendaries by essentially afk’ing doesn’t exist, and that it takes next to zero effort involved and that doesn’t even include all of the collections outside of raid content needed to acquire PvE legendaries.

Raids require you to gear up your character with proper gear, learn all the boss mechanics, learn your classes rotation, practice you classes rotation, communicate with other players, coordinate with other players, and actually complete content, complete collections etc. versus log into WvW and smack some Dolyaks and Sentries in what ever gear you’re  wearing solo. 

Recap: 

 

You don’t have to fight other players at all you can literally avoid them all and only hit the easiest of PvE mobs to acquire WvW legendaries in masterwork/rare gear with next to zero effort.

Again time doesn’t equal effort.

Edited November 1, 2022 by BlaqueFyre.5678

[Gehenna.3625]

2 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Another one without PvE kps touting PvE...my prediction above was eerily accurate.

Yes, in WvW you need 17.5 hours of semi active gameplay vs 2 hours of moving your character and gg'ing 25 times in PvE. I wonder which one is more active. I mean, even if you do play raids and don't get carried, with an equivalent amount of time investment as the one required in WvW you should achieve a level of proficiency with your PvE rotations to be able to speed clear any boss in any wing. 

Fallacies are fallacies.

I see it's pointless to discuss this with you any further. You have your views and I have mine. In the meantime zergs are calling for more people to join because they are outnumbered and at the same time I see 10+ people waiting 2 mins to cap a camp; and some of them don't even participate in combat but just stand in the circle to get credit and it's the same people every time. I have people in my PvE guild that play WvW while watching Netflix at the same time. I have my ideas about why that is and they haven't changed in spite of your views.

So I'll agree to disagree with you. Hope you can do the same.