Did ArenaNet forget the OG genius?

[Zola.6197]

4 hours ago, Val.7826 said:

I just suspect the devs had some problems with Zojja voice actress, but not definitive ones, so they are keeping Zojja alive but behind the scenes until that problem is solved in a way or another

As far as official statements go, the studio and Felicia Day (the voice actress) have stated they would like to work together again. It just seems the right opportunity/timing hasn’t arisen. Of note, devs did state they had a draft of S4E2 where Zojja was slated to return as a kidnapping victim, but they ultimately scrapped that since Taimi had been kidnapped in a similar fashion in S4E1. So they were looking for a reason to bring her back even if it didn’t pan out; I suspect now that the game’s story has a huge amount of freedom on where it’ll go next, the opportunity to give Zojja’s return the time/focus it warrants after such a long absence could be on the horizon.

[Swagger.1459]

On 11/11/2022 at 2:25 PM, Adonan.7985 said:

Oh I will, as soon as I get a satisfactory answer as to why she's gone, or at least a, "retirement" arc. It's called good story telling. I don't even like Logan that much, yet I still want a reason for his absence too.

 

"In 1335 AE, Taimi chatted with Caithe and the Pact Commander about her researcher partner Gorrik and briefly mentioned that she did not know where Zojja was at the time."

 

Considering that EoD is where the story is currently paused, you may have to wait a while. I'm sure within a year or two we may all find out... maybe... because the devs are working on a new xpac so it might even take a few years to find out about Zojja. 

[Zola.6197]

1 hour ago, Swagger.1459 said:

briefly mentioned that she did not know where Zojja was at the time."

 

Yeah, this was the first time in game Zojja has been referenced since S3 I believe. Whether or not the line about Zojja in EoDs was meant as a cheeky reference to all the threads asking about her status or actual foreshadowing for her return remains to be seen. However, it does give me hope for the latter.

 

With the return achievements from the previous year, EoD resolving a lot of old threads/questions, and the rerelease of S1, I feel like the devs are paying more attention to old plot threads and characters. If there’s a time for Zojja to come back, I imagine it will be soon - either in the forthcoming season or as part of the next expansion down the line.

[Kalavier.1097]

3 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

It's the same kitten thing in the personal story though. She's surrounded by members of the Orders who hold zero loyalty to avoiding gossiping about the Queen.

Neither is an instance of quiet, personal confidence.

I'd have to replay the instance again but as I recall, the first the order is all over by the door, and Jennah is quietly talking to the commander.

The latter, she's in the middle of a crowded room full of everybody from commoners to shining blade, and the two are not at all quietly talking. Either way, there are more ways to take the thing then "Jennah is a bleep and has been stringing Logan along"

3 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

Why would any of that matter? In fact, all that would make the gesture seem less genuine from the state, and more a personal matter from Logan. By sending "Bob the Seraph Captain of DR", they'd be showing that it is a genuine gesture from the state, rather than sending "former Seraph Captain and best buddy of Tribune Brimstone".

Because you don't want to send somebody leading forces into a battlezone who has little idea how allied forces think, fight, and react to stuff.

Logan can lend his experience in those areas to help make sure the joint operation goes smoothyl.

We have the official ambassador of Kryta (Kasmeer) arrive with Logan. How is that not a genuine gesture? It's not like Logan has ever had the title of "Champion of Queen Jennah" at ANY time.

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

45 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

I'd have to replay the instance again but as I recall, the first the order is all over by the door, and Jennah is quietly talking to the commander.

The latter, she's in the middle of a crowded room full of everybody from commoners to shining blade, and the two are not at all quietly talking. Either way, there are more ways to take the thing then "Jennah is a bleep and has been stringing Logan along"

I don't see how you can defer "quietly talking" or "not at all quietly talking" when both are equally just textbox dialogue and nothing more.
Further, there are Shining Blade and Order (be it Priory or Vigil) all over the room in the PS, some even follow the player.

45 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

Because you don't want to send somebody leading forces into a battlezone who has little idea how allied forces think, fight, and react to stuff.

Logan can lend his experience in those areas to help make sure the joint operation goes smoothyl.

I can't imagine that Logan is the one and only Seraph Captain capable of joint operations, and even then, he never worked with Ash, Blood, or Flame Legions on a large scale, just Iron and just once. Logan is not exactly an expert on Seraph-Allied Legions joint operations, as he's only done a joint operation one time.

45 minutes ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

We have the official ambassador of Kryta (Kasmeer) arrive with Logan. How is that not a genuine gesture? It's not like Logan has ever had the title of "Champion of Queen Jennah" at ANY time.

Kasmeer is also a close friend of Rytlock's and the Commander's, and thus also in the same exact position as Logan - someone who's likely to be acting out of personal interest, and not national interest. Even if her role is as official ambassador (which is a weird figure to send to the front lines of a battlefield).
And Logan might be the former Queen's Champion, but it's not like he was the only one.
It still doesn't make sense to use him, when he's the Pact Marshal first and foremost, and he never uses his role as Pact Marshal in fighting forces allied to an Elder Dragon - i.e., his and the Pact's primary #1 job. It would have made far more sense if he introduced himself as being there on Pact business, not Krytan business.

 

You can keep jumping through hoops, but you're just creating flimsy excuses to try to explain how this all makes sense - and yeah it all falls under "okay, if you assume this then yeah it kind of sort of makes sense". But the very fact that it's so easily called into question and asked "how could this possibly make sense" shows that it doesn't make sense and you need to come with excuses for it to make sense.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Konig Des Todes.2086

[Kalavier.1097]

10 hours ago, Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

I can't imagine that Logan is the one and only Seraph Captain capable of joint operations, and even then, he never worked with Ash, Blood, or Flame Legions on a large scale, just Iron and just once. Logan is not exactly an expert on Seraph-Allied Legions joint operations, as he's only done a joint operation one time.

Kasmeer is also a close friend of Rytlock's and the Commander's, and thus also in the same exact position as Logan - someone who's likely to be acting out of personal interest, and not national interest. Even if her role is as official ambassador (which is a weird figure to send to the front lines of a battlefield).
And Logan might be the former Queen's Champion, but it's not like he was the only one.
It still doesn't make sense to use him, when he's the Pact Marshal first and foremost, and he never uses his role as Pact Marshal in fighting forces allied to an Elder Dragon - i.e., his and the Pact's primary #1 job. It would have made far more sense if he introduced himself as being there on Pact business, not Krytan business.

 

You can keep jumping through hoops, but you're just creating flimsy excuses to try to explain how this all makes sense - and yeah it all falls under "okay, if you assume this then yeah it kind of sort of makes sense". But the very fact that it's so easily called into question and asked "how could this possibly make sense" shows that it doesn't make sense and you need to come with excuses for it to make sense.

I would point out one very important thing you forgot or seemingly haven't bothered considering at all.

You know, the fact that southern drizzlewood does not feature elder dragons at all? Everything below wolf's landing, is just charr on charr, so why drag the pact into it? Now after the glacier retreats, the elder dragon's influence is apparent and THEN we see units talking over the comms, Order of Whisper agents and,  PACT RESEARCHERS.

So yes, in southern Drizzlewood he acts as a Seraph leader. Then when the frost legion emerge and the Aberrant, Svanir, and Fallen forces appear alongside icebrood, frost legion, and dominion remnants, we see the Pact come into play and the Seraph take a backseat, though they are present at the final battle.

So quite literally, he does exactly what you are complaining he never did. Which is bring the pact into play. Only he quite literally does bring the pact into play when the battlefield shifts from Charr civil war to Jormag forces vs Charr.

 

So do tell me what "hoops" I'm leaping through when you quite explicitly ignore the fact Pact npcs are present in the northern drizzlewood events? Looking at npc names, they are even present for the assault on the citadel event. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Use_the_allied_cannons_to_destroy_the_Citadel_gate

Vigil and Whispers.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Push_Through_the_Front_Line

Priory

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Destroy_the_Ruinbringer

Vigil, whispers, Priory, Seraph, and all four legions, with those listed for the rest of the meta event.

 

So yes, judging by a very quick research in the wiki, Logan appears with the Seraph as a chosen agent of the Queen. Then when the tide of battle turns and Jormag's minions take to the field, the Pact is called in and deploys forces.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Kalavier.1097

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

6 hours ago, Kalavier.1097 said:

You know, the fact that southern drizzlewood does not feature elder dragons at all? Everything below wolf's landing, is just charr on charr, so why drag the pact into it? Now after the glacier retreats, the elder dragon's influence is apparent and THEN we see units talking over the comms, Order of Whisper agents and,  PACT RESEARCHERS.

So yes, in southern Drizzlewood he acts as a Seraph leader. Then when the frost legion emerge and the Aberrant, Svanir, and Fallen forces appear alongside icebrood, frost legion, and dominion remnants, we see the Pact come into play and the Seraph take a backseat, though they are present at the final battle.

So quite literally, he does exactly what you are complaining he never did. Which is bring the pact into play. Only he quite literally does bring the pact into play when the battlefield shifts from Charr civil war to Jormag forces vs Charr.

The entirety of Icebrood Saga Episodes 1 through 4 - this includes southern Drizzlewood - is to stop Bangar from waking up Jormag and sacrificing the charr to him. Episodes 1-2 is spent catching up to him and fighting the source of whispers that were delaying us, and Episodes 3-4 is confronting him and his forces directly.

So yes, an Elder Dragon is involved, even if not directly featured. Bangar is basically Scarlet 2.0 prior to Episode 4, and this time the Pact is aware of such.

 

Pact NPCs being relevant to the northern portion is unrelated to Logan's involvement as Seraph during Episode 3. As you say: those Pact agents are not present in Episode 3, only Episode 4. And that's part of the issue.