Tempest buff? Hello?

[Hazell.2065]

Tempest doesn't have a playable dps or boon dps build while Heal tempest completely outclassed by heal mech. Where is the buff? Hello? Unnerf overload air maybe? Lightning Flash is still 40 seconds cooldown, not even a stunbreak and only 900 range? Alac trait still conflicting with the heal trait? Remove the only way Warhorn Tempest can heal from range by making water trident into trash skill? 3 months working on this balance patch and you only came up with this? You have the time to buff herald which is already better than firebrand in some encounters but you just forgot about tempest being outclassed by literally everything? How do we even communicate with you if you don't even acknowledge Tempest exist?

[Erick Alastor.3917]

• ANET: We want to set the basis for how we see our class system. Some level of homogenization is required, but we'll try to make classes feel different.
• PLAYERS: Cool! With the next balance we'll probably see addressed players' concerns about discrepancies between how some classes can bring everything to the table with little effort and some have to struggle to be barely viable in realistic scenarios. So many CDs to fix, so many channelings to reconsider, or what about all those mandatory skills to upkeep a single boon?
• ANET: Here! Have a strong FB rework and some tweaks to dps numbers here and there. All fine now! We've also fixed Mec keeping it broken, but adding annoyance to its management, we hope you'll enjoy the change.
• PLAYERS: *SurprisedPikachu* (We never learn, do we? :D)

[soulknight.9620]

5 hours ago, Hazell.2065 said:

Tempest doesn't have a playable dps or boon dps build while Heal tempest completely outclassed by heal mech. Where is the buff? Hello?

Are we playing the same game? There is atleast one condi dps tempest build and one alac condi dps build that performs well. And yes tempest is not a top dps spec, its a support spec, so dont expect it to deal 40k dps. 

Heal alac tempest is NOT outclassed by heal mech. Tempest has more healing availible and can be played as a cele to dish some dps extra (not that much though, but mech cant do this). Cough... rebound.... cough... So both HAM and HAT are kinda on par. HAM being a bit easier to play due to alac application of tempest. 

5 hours ago, Hazell.2065 said:

Lightning Flash is still 40 seconds cooldown, not even a stunbreak and only 900 range?

Not a tempest skill. But yeah, could use some rework here. 

 

[keykey.9182]

Player : I want to play Ele is my fav class, but its so bad it makes me uninstall

 

Anet: Okay , feedback

 

Player : *Provides Feedback*

 

Anet: https://ibb.co/7ysfsgV , Fk It too much feedback I'll clean my backside with it and just nerf it.

Edited November 13, 2022 by keykey.9182

[DaKillaOfHell.5907]

6 hours ago, Hazell.2065 said:

Tempest doesn't have a playable dps or boon dps build while Heal tempest completely outclassed by heal mech. Where is the buff? Hello? Unnerf overload air maybe? Lightning Flash is still 40 seconds cooldown, not even a stunbreak and only 900 range? Alac trait still conflicting with the heal trait? Remove the only way Warhorn Tempest can heal from range by making water trident into trash skill? 3 months working on this balance patch and you only came up with this? You have the time to buff herald which is already better than firebrand in some encounters but you just forgot about tempest being outclassed by literally everything? How do we even communicate with you if you don't even acknowledge Tempest exist?

 

Alac Cele Tempest is a very strong support build, if not one of the strongest together with HBF.

Sandsquall, afterhock, Rebound and overload earth + unstable conduid give you each of them 4 seconds of immunity against projectiles, instead even reflecting them. 

Heal and condi removal is also very high.

Again, 25 stacks of might by default?

not to mention further offensive support with massive ccs and so on?

And let's not forget that you are literally immortal when knowing how to play. 

 

EDIT: The only downside is the stupid Alac mechanic itself which would need a rework, but overall, it is fine.

Edited November 13, 2022 by DaKillaOfHell.5907

[Hazell.2065]

2 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Are we playing the same game? There is atleast one condi dps tempest build and one alac condi dps build that performs well. And yes tempest is not a top dps spec, its a support spec, so dont expect it to deal 40k dps. 

Heal alac tempest is NOT outclassed by heal mech. Tempest has more healing availible and can be played as a cele to dish some dps extra (not that much though, but mech cant do this).

I can ask you the same thing. Do we play the same game? Are you telling me 33k benchmark half melee condi dps that gets punished hard from the boss moving or cancelling overload performs well?  Also, what makes you think mech can't play cele?

 

 

[Kodama.6453]

15 minutes ago, Hazell.2065 said:

I can ask you the same thing. Do we play the same game? Are you telling me 33k benchmark half melee condi dps that gets punished hard from the boss moving or cancelling overload performs well?  Also, what makes you think mech can't play cele?

 

 

Mechanist shares toughness and vitality with the mech 100% by default, most other stats are just shared to 50%, unless you pick one of three traits to increase some other stats to 100% share as well:

• healing power + concentration
• condition damage + expertise
• precision

The mechanist is heavily reliant on the mech for almost anything they want to achieve. With the way stat share works for it, celestial stats will make tons of your stats go to waste.

Celestials big advantage is the sheer amount of stats you get from the equipment. The majority of these stats are wasted on a mechanist.

You pick the support trait: power, ferocity, condition damage, expertise are just shared to 50%, precision is completely wasted

You pick the condition trait: power, ferocity, healing power, concentration are just shared to 50%, precision still completely wasted

You pick the power trait: power, ferocity, condition damage, expertise, concentration, healing power are just shared to 50%

______________________________________________________________________

So the point is: you can play cele, but you won't get great results with that. Because a ton of the stats you gain with this set is simply going to waste on a mechanist.

[soulknight.9620]

59 minutes ago, Hazell.2065 said:

I can ask you the same thing. Do we play the same game? Are you telling me 33k benchmark half melee condi dps that gets punished hard from the boss moving or cancelling overload performs well?  Also, what makes you think mech can't play cele?

Yes, 33k dps on a support oriented build is decent. Not every elite spec should perform like pure dps specs. You dont see chronomancers, druids, heralds etc complain that they do less dps than pure dps specs like virtuoso, soulbeasts etc. Thats how it should work, you have more utility - u get less dps. And wise versa. 

As for mechs, sure every class can equip cele stats, but the problem is that there are only a few builds (like ele builds, hfb, renegade) that can utilise it to the extent to perform in your primary role and get additional value out of the bonus stats. Tempest has enough healing/boon duration that they can sacrifice some healing power for condi/power/etc bonus stats and get value out of it. Tempest is hybrid by default if you look at its skills. So by going cele you do more dmg with condies and power while also providing decent heals and boon support. If mech takes cele he looses healing power and do not get anything worthwile like condi/power dps since its skills are kinda meh when it comes down to dealing dps in HAM build. 

 

 

[JPUlisses.8756]

Worry about buffing weaver first

[Junkpile.7439]

Nerf elite specs to core ele level and then start to buff core traits

[the krytan assassin.9235]

33k dps on Tempest isn't that great, but not to bad either (although i do think that transcendent Tempest elite should last 15 seconds instead of 7 to open up a real possibility of LI ele build). My biggest complaint about the Tempest is its lack of flavor and feeling of impact on the minor traits and major adept/master traits. 

[Hazell.2065]

4 hours ago, soulknight.9620 said:

Yes, 33k dps on a support oriented build is decent. Not every elite spec should perform like pure dps specs. You dont see chronomancers, druids, heralds etc complain that they do less dps than pure dps specs like virtuoso, soulbeasts etc. Thats how it should work, you have more utility - u get less dps. And wise versa. 

As for mechs, sure every class can equip cele stats, but the problem is that there are only a few builds (like ele builds, hfb, renegade) that can utilise it to the extent to perform in your primary role and get additional value out of the bonus stats. Tempest has enough healing/boon duration that they can sacrifice some healing power for condi/power/etc bonus stats and get value out of it. Tempest is hybrid by default if you look at its skills. So by going cele you do more dmg with condies and power while also providing decent heals and boon support. If mech takes cele he looses healing power and do not get anything worthwile like condi/power dps since its skills are kinda meh when it comes down to dealing dps in HAM build. 

 

 

DPS tempest is not a support oriented build. Pure DPS Chrono and herald will be around 38k-39k DPS after the patch while bringing more utility than tempest(boonstrip, group lifesteal, portal, massive cc, stability, group wide damage reduction and high burst damage). Also, what you say about HAM is just wrong. You said HAM lose healing power by using cele, are you trying to imply that tempest don't lose healing power by going cele? Mace also gives a lot of confusion and while mech doesn't inherit full stats that doesn't mean the stats from cele are wasted. You yourself still can fully utilize the stats from cele, those stats inherited to your Mech is just a bonus. Mech has 100% DPS uptime because it can't be cc'ed and immune to most mechanics. This is why you see average harrier ham can do around 5-6k DPS in real encounter while other healers do around 1-2k DPS.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Hazell.2065

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

HealTempest isn't outclassed by HAM. They could make two simple changes, merge alac/healing aura traits and then apply Alacrity on the start of the cast for Overloads and it would immediately be 100% more viable.

 

Its literally just a few mechanical issues surrounding Alacrity (too many tradeoffs).

 

The fact the devs thought Tempests would give up all their healing outside of Water attunement for Alacrity shows how out of touch they are with the class--hopefully they'll realise their mistake.

Edited November 14, 2022 by Mariyuuna.6508