What will be the impact of all the Buffs on PvP Holo?

[shion.2084]

I'm actually worried that the buffs of the holo to the core skills that the current tools holo build takes are going to further exacerbate a nuke and run play style.   The buffs all look oriented at the skills that the currently emerging tools holo brings to the table.   The tools holo tends to rely on CC juggling and then running away to repeat the attempt again.  This is going to probably farm the crap out of noobs.   And in the hands of the more competent tools holo might allow for routine deleting of opponents.   
So my question is... are these boons to damage that can be laid out in a sudden spike a little over the top?  Does anyone feel this level of buffing was "needed" ?   What play style are these buffs going to encourage for the holo?  Do we really want to push the type of play style that these buffs are going to encourage?

 

I suspect I'm going to have to switch to holo from scrapper now as scrapper was a little weaker than holo before... and now this is really going to open the gap.  That sucks for me cause I prefer scrapper being scrappy... but once a holo's spike exceeds a certain threshold you aren't going to be able to be a slugger, cause you'll just get burst down.   And if you take more skills for survival, then you won't be effective when you scrap.

 

I also suspect that in the long run this will be bad for Engi as a whole.  The reason being that folks will complain about the holo burst... and rather than reverting these changes, they'll do things like nerf core skills.  You can almost see it coming as a new reign of terror CC juggle DPS nuking and superspeed running away arises.

 

Anyone else got worries about this?

[SleepyBat.9034]

8 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

So my question is... are these boons to damage that can be laid out in a sudden spike a little over the top?

Are you talking about the single buff to Particle Accelerator?      

If so probably not.

Quote

Particle Accelerator: This skill now gains bonus damage while above 50% heat and additional bonus damage while above 100% heat, in addition to its previous effects.

Worst case scenario they walk this change back.

 

10 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

Do we really want to push the type of play style that these buffs are going to encourage?

As opposed to what other play style? It's not like holo would be the first to have this type of play-style.

 

[shion.2084]

2 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Are you talking about the single buff to Particle Accelerator?      

If so probably not.

Worst case scenario they walk this change back.

 

As opposed to what other play style? It's not like holo would be the first to have this type of play-style.

 

I was talking about prime light beam... already previously buffed and now....

"Prime Light Beam: This skill now gains additional field strike damage and burning duration when used above 100% heat, in addition to its previous effects."

 

Particle Accelerator...
"Particle Accelerator: This skill now gains bonus damage while above 50% heat and additional bonus damage while above 100% heat, in addition to its previous effects."

 

Then for CC  and survivability we have coolant blast (though many tools use AED I guess)...
"

• Coolant Blast: This skill now grants additional duration to Cooling Vapor and Frost Aura when used above 100% heat, in addition to its previous effects."
  
  "
• Cauterize: This skill now removes additional conditions when used while above 100% heat."
  
  And many tools holos take toolkit... which they've now given an immob to... to increase the amount of CC...
  "
• Box of Nails: The first pulse of this skill will now immobilize enemies affected by crowd control or a movement-impairing condition. Increased ammunition from 1 to 2."
  
  I guess this might be offset by the rifle variant if the PvP rifle DPS is decreased by rifle nerfs... but I actually have a hard time reading that rifle description and understanding what it does exactly to PvP.  Also I think Rifle was finally in a useful place to support core engi and make it an alternative for scrapper as well as give mechanist a fighting chance.   If they are nerfing a core ability I'm worried about the impact to builds that needed it for a crutch.

[shion.2084]

10 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

 

 

As opposed to what other play style? It's not like holo would be the first to have this type of play-style.

 

You of course make a valid point.  But Holo's seem to have a threshold where by once you exceed it they can be oppressive in their spike.  Having this play style resulted in a nuking of the grenade kit, which was ONLY overly effective in the holo's hands because of its ability to spike and run with it.

[SleepyBat.9034]

2 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

was talking about prime light beam... already previously buffed and now....

"Prime Light Beam: This skill now gains additional field strike damage and burning duration when used above 100% heat, in addition to its previous effects."

Right I missed that one.

I still don't think it's going to affect much, I suspect the impact will be rather low.

[shion.2084]

And depending on what they do for laser disk... you might see that combined with forge mode mele to be horrific in DPS. As well they enhanced its projectile

[SleepyBat.9034]

It's too soon to tell anyhow, we'll have to give it a few weeks at least.

[shion.2084]

Just now, SleepyBat.9034 said:

It's too soon to tell anyhow, we'll have to give it a few weeks at least.

Fair enough.   I just am a bit scared as I was already having to reflex time the crap out of avoiding holo bursts and often walking away with the slightest margin of health.  And this is when I had my cooldowns.  I got a feeling now that off cooldown I'm going to be toast.   Well if you can't beat-em .... join-em I suppose.   

[freakcoco.4287]

58 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

I'm actually worried that the buffs of the holo to the core skills that the current tools holo build takes are going to further exacerbate a nuke and run play style.   The buffs all look oriented at the skills that the currently emerging tools holo brings to the table.   The tools holo tends to rely on CC juggling and then running away to repeat the attempt again.  This is going to probably farm the crap out of noobs.   And in the hands of the more competent tools holo might allow for routine deleting of opponents.   
So my question is... are these boons to damage that can be laid out in a sudden spike a little over the top?  Does anyone feel this level of buffing was "needed" ?   What play style are these buffs going to encourage for the holo?  Do we really want to push the type of play style that these buffs are going to encourage?

 

I suspect I'm going to have to switch to holo from scrapper now as scrapper was a little weaker than holo before... and now this is really going to open the gap.  That sucks for me cause I prefer scrapper being scrappy... but once a holo's spike exceeds a certain threshold you aren't going to be able to be a slugger, cause you'll just get burst down.   And if you take more skills for survival, then you won't be effective when you scrap.

 

I also suspect that in the long run this will be bad for Engi as a whole.  The reason being that folks will complain about the holo burst... and rather than reverting these changes, they'll do things like nerf core skills.  You can almost see it coming as a new reign of terror CC juggle DPS nuking and superspeed running away arises.

 

Anyone else got worries about this?

 

lamo

Elementalist forum -> "Tempest buff? Hello?" / "Power fresh air, should have the highest DPS in the game."

Engineer fourm -> "This buff a little bit too much"/ "Where is mech nerf"

 

To be honest, I'm not big fan of cc chain,  and duelist holo damage is good enough and what it lack is sustain.

But this change will not impact of meta nade holo , and tool holo is underperform, It will bring diverse to holo.

 

 

10k~15k combo is not a thing for pvp now day, I think there have nothing wrong to let holo keep up.

 

[shion.2084]

2 hours ago, freakcoco.4287 said:

 

lamo

Elementalist forum -> "Tempest buff? Hello?" / "Power fresh air, should have the highest DPS in the game."

Engineer fourm -> "This buff a little bit too much"/ "Where is mech nerf"

 

To be honest, I'm not big fan of cc chain,  and duelist holo damage is good enough and what it lack is sustain.

But this change will not impact of meta nade holo , and tool holo is underperform, It will bring diverse to holo.

 

 

10k~15k combo is not a thing for pvp now day, I think there have nothing wrong to let holo keep up.

 

Kinda dumb right?   I mean you'll have one noob that macro's this, then farms the crap out of other new players... who will basically instantly give up saying the game mode is stupid.   

Maybe there should be a cap to damage in each of the tiers S1, S2, S3,G1,G2... so at least you don't get insta burst until you hit G2 or 3 or something.  Just a thought.    But anyway, I don't really find that kinda insta delete.... "fun"
 

[miriforst.1290]

Shouldn't the holosmith kinda appeal to "nuke and run" playstyles?

The holosmith gets problematic when it dips into a lot of sustain to become the bruiser that they wanted scrapper to be (not helped by it's signature weapon pairing mainly with shield). And comparing it with scrapper right now feels a bit so so since it catches a lot of collateral nerfs from wvw scrappers excelling at a role it wasn't made for. Loosing quickness for example is a big deal, and it's super speed is majorly neutered as well.

Let's not keep holo on its crutches because scrapper is having a bit of a limp. And man i love scrapper.

On another note, it is funny that when i saw the mechanist reveal i was expecting them to give us yet another melee power bruiser with barrier. But since we had two melee bruiser specs, they tried to fill out 3 roles at once with mech, namely ranged power damage, melee condi and support. Luckily they also gave scrapper quickness before EOD so it has a role in pve at last.

 

Edited November 14, 2022 by miriforst.1290

[freakcoco.4287]

8 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

Kinda dumb right?   I mean you'll have one noob that macro's this, then farms the crap out of other new players... who will basically instantly give up saying the game mode is stupid.   

Maybe there should be a cap to damage in each of the tiers S1, S2, S3,G1,G2... so at least you don't get insta burst until you hit G2 or 3 or something.  Just a thought.    But anyway, I don't really find that kinda insta delete.... "fun"
 

I know, but that is not holo porblem, it is all balance problem, most of class can deleting other .

Also macro cannot handle heat management.

Edited November 15, 2022 by freakcoco.4287

[shion.2084]

11 hours ago, freakcoco.4287 said:

I know, but that is not holo porblem, it is all balance problem, most of class can deleting other .

Also macro cannot handle heat management.

Oh for Macro... I meant the Mesmer attack that the video showed.  I should have been more clear.

[Kuma.1503]

Holo is already making a comeback in PvP after the last round of buffs. I predict that they will be very good next patch. 

Time will tell whether or not they will be broken. It seems that the straight power increases are locked behind high heat thresholds in PvP, so it will take some set-up and proper heat management to access this extra power. 

These buffs probably wont impact lower rating as much as a result... in fact the rifle nerfs may cause it to perform slightly worse since rifle holo was a popular way to play it. 

In higher ratings, I am concerned that this could break them, leading to another round of nerfs. 

[shion.2084]

7 hours ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Holo is already making a comeback in PvP after the last round of buffs. I predict that they will be very good next patch. 

Time will tell whether or not they will be broken. It seems that the straight power increases are locked behind high heat thresholds in PvP, so it will take some set-up and proper heat management to access this extra power. 

These buffs probably wont impact lower rating as much as a result... in fact the rifle nerfs may cause it to perform slightly worse since rifle holo was a popular way to play it. 

In higher ratings, I am concerned that this could break them, leading to another round of nerfs. 

Yeah I'm not sure a lot of the damage in high tier play was coming from rifle AA.   Generally it was used for the knock back, immobile, and then jump shot and blunderbuss.   I didn't see a lot of folks sitting their pewing.  So I doubt the rifle nerfs will affect holo that much, as it was more of a CC burst that they were relying on.

[Ten.2617]

They are late with these 100% heat bonuses implementations. They are welcome and long date waited, but again "late".

[Alcatraznc.3869]

On 11/15/2022 at 3:35 AM, freakcoco.4287 said:

 

lamo

Elementalist forum -> "Tempest buff? Hello?" / "Power fresh air, should have the highest DPS in the game."

Engineer fourm -> "This buff a little bit too much"/ "Where is mech nerf"

 

To be honest, I'm not big fan of cc chain,  and duelist holo damage is good enough and what it lack is sustain.

But this change will not impact of meta nade holo , and tool holo is underperform, It will bring diverse to holo.

 

 

10k~15k combo is not a thing for pvp now day, I think there have nothing wrong to let holo keep up.

 

 

Mesmer is trash btw. Worst SPvP class in the game since forever btw. Stealth is fine btw.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Alcatraznc.3869