Berserker burst please change the setup of F1/F2

[Karagee.6830]

Not sure who had the brilliant idea of having skills moving slots depending on whether you are in berserk mode or not, but please move him/her to another department. Keep all zerker related skills on F1 or on F2 and the same for core skills, no flip flopping and please consider that berserk mode may end abruptly and while you wanted to use the berkerker burst skill, maybe you have no use for blowing resources on core burst, but you still might accidentally, because the skill has changed position.. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

1 minute ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Not sure who had the brilliant idea of having skills moving slots depending on whether you are in berserk mode or not, but please move him/her to another department. Keep all zerker related skills on F1 or on F2 and the same for core skills, no flip flopping and please consider that berserk mode may end abruptly and while you wanted to use the berkerker burst skill, maybe you have no use for blowing resources on core burst, but you still might accidentally, because the skill has changed position.. 

Yeah, they shouldn't have moved Berserk Mode to F1 in the first place.

[oscuro.9720]

These types of complaints are very much fixable by playing the spec enough to get used to it. 
 

It helps if you change how you think about it;

F1 is your burst skill. F2 is a state change. It changes your burst skill, but isn’t a burst itself. So your burst is always on F1. 
 

The current system makes more sense imo than what you’ve suggested. 

[Fueki.4753]

The Bursts are on F1 and the Berserk recolour is on F2. It's perfectly fine that way.

Any other way makes significantly less sense.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Shinichi Megure.8061]

Why does zerker skills on f1 and core on f2 make significantly less sense? It's just another way of playing the game it doesn't make any more or less sense. Also zerk mode is not just a state change it can be stunbreak, quickness boost animation chancel or however u want to play it out. I don't care if it's on f1 f2 or whatever you will get used to it but the argument that any key makes more sense is false.

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Shinichi Megure.8061 said:

Why does zerker skills on f1 and core on f2 make significantly less sense? It's just another way of playing the game it doesn't make any more or less sense. Also zerk mode is not just a state change it can be stunbreak, quickness boost animation chancel or however u want to play it out. I don't care if it's on f1 f2 or whatever you will get used to it but the argument that any key makes more sense is false.

And now imagine Berserk on F2 changes to Primal Bursts on F2. During Berserk, Berserker would have access to core Bursts and Primal Bursts at the same time. Does that make more sense to you than core Bursts flipping over to Primal Bursts? To me, it definitely doesn't.

If anything, Berserk should flip over to an ability that enables us to leave Berserk early. But it certainly should not flip over to Primal Bursts.

Edited November 18, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Karagee.6830]

On 11/18/2022 at 12:14 AM, oscuro.9720 said:

These types of complaints are very much fixable by playing the spec enough to get used to it. 
 

It helps if you change how you think about it;

F1 is your burst skill. F2 is a state change. It changes your burst skill, but isn’t a burst itself. So your burst is always on F1. 
 

The current system makes more sense imo than what you’ve suggested. 

Except I never want to even use core burst in wvw or pvp even by accident. So keeping the whole zerker related skills on the same button is preferable for me, but now I can't set it up that way even if I wanted to: I need 2 keybinds, when I only need one and in the past it was one.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

10 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Except I never want to even use core burst in wvw or pvp even by accident. So keeping the whole zerker related skills on the same button is preferable for me, but now I can't set it up that way even if I wanted to: I need 2 keybinds, when I only need one and in the past it was one.

Pretty sure you can change your key bindings mate.

[Karagee.6830]

6 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

And now imagine Berserk on F2 changes to Primal Bursts on F2. During Berserk, Berserker would have access to core Bursts and Primal Bursts at the same time. Does that make more sense to you than core Bursts flipping over to Primal Bursts? To me, it definitely doesn't.

Then they could just disable F2 for the duration of berserk mode, I don't see the problem. It's a simple matter of convenience of allowing people to have 1 keybind for core and 1 for berserker. If you are using both (not sure why because you'd use core very sparingly in pve and that's about it) then it changes nothing, you still need to deal with 2 keybinds.

 

6 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

If anything, Berserk should flip over to an ability that enables us to leave Berserk early. But it certainly should not flip over to Primal Bursts.

That would at least make sense from a practical standpoint and I would be ok with it since berserk and burst would have to be on different buttons as they both would be usable at the same time (unlike now and unlike the last several years). However the current situation is neither practical nor efficient. I understand your logic, but currently  'berserk' disappears when burst skills are active and vice versa and it was like that before the change. The only reason why berserk is now moved to a different button is that they needed room for the core burst comeback.

It sounds to me you'd have preferred to have berserk trigger and burst on different buttons also in the past, even though they couldn't be active at the same time and one would always be disabled.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

Just now, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Pretty sure you can change your key bindings mate.

but you cant have the same keybind for berserk (F2) and then burst skills like decapitate (F1) in the current setup. Even if I change the keybinds I still need 2.

[Fueki.4753]

11 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

 However the current situation is neither practical nor efficient.

For me, the current version is both practical and efficient. Whether I'm in Berserk mode or not, Bursts are always the same key.

Maybe it's just your muscle memory from before the patch that finally gave back our core Bursts, that's holding you back.

11 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Except I never want to even use core burst in wvw or pvp even by accident. So keeping the whole zerker related skills on the same button is preferable for me, but now I can't set it up that way even if I wanted to: I need 2 keybinds, when I only need one and in the past it was one.

You might not want to use core Bursts. But me (and probably many others) want to use them.

 

Edited November 19, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Karagee.6830]

20 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

For me, the current version is both practical and efficient. Whether I'm in Berserk mode or not, Bursts are always the same key.

Maybe it's just your muscle memory from before the patch that finally gave back our core Bursts, that's holding you back.

You might not want to use core Bursts. But me (and probably many others) want to use them.

 

I don't want to use them in pvp and wvw, I will use them (whatever few times they are fitted in the rotation without jeopardizing berserk uptime) in pve.

But I fail to understand how people consider the current set up efficient when you are forced to set 2 keybinds instead of 1. Were you advocating to have a berserk switch on one button and burst skills on another also before the patch? Because logically you are saying that would have made sense even then.

If berserk is turned into a flip skill, then there is no way around, but this has never been the case.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Fueki.4753]

1 hour ago, Karagee.6830 said:

I don't want to use them in pvp and wvw, I will use them (whatever few times they are fitted in the rotation without jeopardizing berserk uptime) in pve.

But I fail to understand how people consider the current set up efficient when you are forced to set 2 keybinds instead of 1. Were you advocating to have a berserk switch on one button and burst skills on another also before the patch? Because logically you are saying that would have made sense even then.

If berserk is turned into a flip skill, then there is no way around, but this has never been the case.

Before the patch, it was merely acceptable to have Primal Bursts and Berserk on the same key, because there literally were no other Bursts available. Also, Berserk was a Burst at that time. But during that time, Berserker was garbage anyway, because out of Berserk, it was less than a core Warrior and during Berserk, it had an unjustifiable Toughness reduction. In Short: It felt bad, whether you were in Berserk or not.

Now, Berserk is no longer a Burst, so it's only appropriate to be on a different key, while all Bursts are on the same key.

Berserk not flipping onto a "End Berserk" ability is a mistake that persists since the very release of HoT.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Fueki.4753

[Karagee.6830]

4 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

Before the patch, it was merely acceptable to have Primal Bursts and Berserk on the same key, because there literally were no other Bursts available. Also, Berserk was a Burst at that time. But during that time, Berserker was garbage anyway, because out of Berserk, it was less than a core Warrior and during Berserk, it had an unjustifiable Toughness reduction. In Short: It felt bad, whether you were in Berserk or not.

Now, Berserk is no longer a Burst, so it's only appropriate to be on a different key, while all Bursts are on the same key.

Berserk not flipping onto a "End Berserk" ability is a mistake that persists since the very release of HoT.

Lolwut? Power and condi berserker had been meta in pve for years as BS and spellbreaker and core were garbage. Spellbreaker was better for competitive, but zerker was also better than core in organised wvw.

In any case you are repeating yourself, I understand your position, I think you have not understood mine and I have no interest in repeating myself. Until there is no permanent berserk button to turn on/off the mode and until you can never have the berserk trigger and burst skill available at the same time as it's been since they removed core bursts years ago, nobody has given me a good reason why I now need 2 keybinds instead of 1 to do the same thing we've always done.

Edited November 19, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Sleepwalker.1398]

Current F2 > F1 seems ok.

Previous F1 > F1 seemed to have a slight delay when you play on high ping. 

(For me anyway)

[oscuro.9720]

8 hours ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Were you advocating to have a berserk switch on one button and burst skills on another also before the patch? Because logically you are saying that would have made sense even then.

If berserk is turned into a flip skill, then there is no way around, but this has never been the case.

Yes, many people were advocating for exactly the layout we have. The layout we have now is the original Berserker layout, they just reverted the nerf they put on berserker in the past by removing core bursts.

[Karagee.6830]

14 hours ago, oscuro.9720 said:

Yes, many people were advocating for exactly the layout we have. The layout we have now is the original Berserker layout, they just reverted the nerf they put on berserker in the past by removing core bursts.

I am aware they reinstated something that people esplicitly asked to be removed back in the day...this just makes the return to that set up even more incomprehensible. Maybe they are just lazy and hoped people forgot?

Edited November 20, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Karagee.6830]

16 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Current F2 > F1 seems ok.

Previous F1 > F1 seemed to have a slight delay when you play on high ping. 

(For me anyway)

Look, other than the fact that using 2 buttons instead of 1 is already inefficient, my main point is that when I play pvp and don't face an NPC I don't want core burst to go off even by accident, so I want the option to have it on a different button than the zerker burst.

For clarity and for @Fueki.4753 as well, if people have a hard-on for the disappearing berserker switch, then a 3 button setup would be more logical and reasonable than the current setup for me. At least there is no chance to waste adrenaline on core burst.

I think in your case the lag after entering berserk mode may have happened irrespective of the button that triggered it. For me it was instant, though.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

20 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

Look, other than the fact that using 2 buttons instead of 1 is already inefficient, my main point is that when I play pvp and don't face an NPC I don't want core burst to go off even by accident, so I want the option to have it on a different button than the zerker burst.

For clarity and for @Fueki.4753 as well, if people have a hard-on for the disappearing berserker switch, then a 3 button setup would be more logical and reasonable than the current setup for me. At least there is no chance to waste adrenaline on core burst.

I think in your case the lag after entering berserk mode may have happened irrespective of the button that triggered it. For me it was instant, though.

It wouldn't be 3 buttons, the F2 would just flip to a new skill.

[Karagee.6830]

12 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It wouldn't be 3 buttons, the F2 would just flip to a new skill.

3 buttons would mean splitting burst and primal burst (and the berserk switch) to always be on different buttons.

In case they change the berserk switch to also end berserk mode and the button does not disappear anymore, this setup would also be preferable to F1 hosting both primal and core burst skills.

Edited November 20, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

31 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

3 buttons would mean splitting burst and primal burst (and the berserk switch) to always be on different buttons.

In case they change the berserk switch to also end berserk mode and the button does not disappear anymore, this setup would also be preferable to F1 hosting both primal and core burst skills.

no, 3 buttons means an F1-F3. The current setup is fine, you just need to relearn the muscle memory.

[Karagee.6830]

10 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

no, 3 buttons means an F1-F3. The current setup is fine, you just need to relearn the muscle memory.

Yes exactly 3 buttons, since people seem so attached to have the switch separate from the burst skills.

Notably, as I said above, they changed this setup in the past because people didn't like it and what you say for 2 also works for 3, so with 3 buttons you will just need to relearn the muscle memory (which isn't my problem as I repeated multiple times: I don't want to have 2 keybinds if 1 was working perfectly well for years and I especially don't want core and primal burst to share the same keybind)

Edited November 20, 2022 by Karagee.6830

[Kalthea.4326]

As Oscuro said in the third comment, you need to change how you think of the Berserker skills.

 

F1 is your BURST. You activate this to spend your adrenaline.

F2 is now a STANCE. You active that to enter Berserk mode.

 

As for not wanting to use core burst, I can give you one good reason: A diverse utility kit. We already lack utility, and having options for us is great. Depending on the weapon, having access to the core burst skills allows you to control what utilities you may use in a fight.

 

All that changing this back to old functionality is going to do for us is cause us to lose out on more of our tools than any other class. Again. Might I suggest taking a day to learn the changes that have been implemented, and try to get used to them? Practicing with changes like this when you're used to an older way may seem tedious, but trust me when I say it's better that they're separate.

[Shagie.7612]

32 minutes ago, Karagee.6830 said:

they changed this setup in the past because people didn't like it

You keep saying this, but that's not why they did it lol

Quote

To this end, the first major change is that we're moving the berserk-mode activation to the F1 slot and removing the F2 slot entirely. In order to use primal bursts, a berserker must now activate berserk mode first. Removing access to normal warrior bursts and putting primal bursts behind berserk mode focuses the specialization around its unique mechanic.

They did it to try and differentiate it more from other warrior specs, to emphasize the whole "tradeoff" design they were going for. They've gone back on that.

It's fine the way it is, and if you're unwilling to make use of regular bursts in PvP as zerk you're missing out on useful plays you could be making. A flurry to immob through stab (like on a support), a regular mace stun lasts an eternity, point pressure on longbow, an arcing slice on someone low when you don't have zerk available, and so on.

[Karagee.6830]

27 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

You keep saying this, but that's not why they did it lol

They did it to try and differentiate it more from other warrior specs, to emphasize the whole "tradeoff" design they were going for. They've gone back on that.

It's fine the way it is, and if you're unwilling to make use of regular bursts in PvP as zerk you're missing out on useful plays you could be making. A flurry to immob through stab (like on a support), a regular mace stun lasts an eternity, point pressure on longbow, an arcing slice on someone low when you don't have zerk available, and so on.

Sword is condi. And on condi the core burst immob is useless because you simply don't have the tools to land it. And even if you do land it it also resets your adrenaline, you can't enter berserk mode, so what are you going to do with that root or stun, poor damage on a class with already subpar damage? An autoattack chain? You may even be dead before you have enough adrenaline again to enter berserk mode. Core bursts are in the benchmark pve rotation when you can't be in berserk mode and anything better is on cd. On a 4 mill benchmarks you hit 2 of them? Come on let's be realistic here and I did say I use them in pve.

The quote doesn't prove people didn't ask for the setup to be changed, so I'm not sure what the point you are trying to make is. If anything it proves that the dynamic of the class is that primal bursts are supposed to be 'put behind berserk mode'...not disconnected from it. And they never said anything in recent month that contradicted this design philosophy.

Btw I asked how people felt going back to the old design on SC warrior discord when the patch came out in early Ovtober. Many people there were dissatisfied with the design and the consensus seemed to be it was unpopular also years ago before it was changed...

Edited November 21, 2022 by Karagee.6830