Which Tyrian technology is your engineer jealous of?

[draxynnic.3719]

This is somewhat of a more focused extension of the 'missing theme' thread, but something I've been thinking over the past few days is that, while ArenaNet has gone to some lengths to make the PoF and EoD elite specs native to the relevant regions, each of them has nevertheless been a variation of some technology that had already been established to exist in Tyria. Jade mechs are essentially asura golems with a different power source. Weaponised holotech goes back to Elli in the original personal story and was then stolen by the Aetherblades - although the holosmith didn't take the route of "creating holograms to fight for you" as, for once, ArenaNet didn't try to base the engineer around AI-controlled helpers. Even scrapper gyros are essentially miniaturised charrcopters.

On this basis, I thought it could be an interesting discussion to look through various technologies, both conventional and magitech (although probably more the latter, since conventional technology is largely already covered) that exist in Tyria but which is not currently represented in the profession, and consider how they could possibly be incorporated into elite specialisations. Ideally, any such proposal should start by identifying examples of the technology that already exists - therefore, this thread could also serve as a means of identifying obscure technologies in Tyria (albeit with an overall context of looking for things that engineers can use).

 

To begin, a couple of examples that came to my mind:

 

Energy Weapons:

The most visible example of this are probably the asura so-called megalasers, which normally fire energy balls long distances from fixed emplacements. However, there are also a number of such weapons spread across Tyria in the form of bundle items. Examples include the Ghost Collector (part of an event near Barradin's Estate), the Essence Coagulator (used for the imp heart in Lornar's Pass), and, to give a portable example, the somewhat misidentified Experimental Laser Weapon (which actually projects an Arc Lightning-like attack).  

Core engineer, however, was primarily themed along the lines of being an expert in charr-style conventional (by real-world standards) technology. Core weapons (apart from shields) and most of their offensive kit and utility skills are mostly themed around weapons and technologies that wouldn't be out of place on a 20th century battlefield. Energy weapons do start to appear in elite specialisations, but for holosmith it's in the form of a handful of skills on what is primarily a melee specialisation, and for mechanist, it's all loaded on the mech.

As a specialisation, a staff would probably make for a suitable chassis for an energy weapon - there's precedent both in Tyria (the Ghost Collector uses a staff skin) and in science fiction in general (such as staff weapons in Stargate), possibly with a lightning- or plasma-based theme. Utilities would likely lean further into the science-fiction-esque technomancer tropes for magitech devices drawing on the fundamental forces, particularly ones that would be hard to make an entire specialisation around - I could see them including an anti-projectile device, a portable gate device (basically portal), devices for controlling enemy movement through magnetism, and so on. I'm not sure what the profession mechanic could be in this case, although I'd probably be inclined to take a similar route to scrapper by defining the elite specialisation more through traits, utilities, and the weapon rather than having a revolutionary elite specialisation mechanic - it should feel essentially similar to a regular engineer but drawing much more heavily on magitech.

 

Cryotech:

We've probably all fought Inquest Extinguishers from time to time. The Frost Gun bundle gave players a taste of the icethrower playstyle, although it received some stiff nerfs when it generated some powerful synergies with traits that converted chill into damaging conditions. Engineer has a couple of skills in this area, but they're both medium cooldown skills in explosive-themed kits.

As a specialisation, I'd probably be expecting a playstyle similar to Mei in Overwatch. Mechanic could be the frost gun or frostthrower kit, while an appropriate weapon could be an axe - since axes are associated both with firefighting and with survival in icy environments. Not sure exactly how it could be teched up as an engineer would normally do with a melee weapon, but that could involve adding cryogenic fluid to attacks, or could be themed towards incorporating gadgets suitable for firefighting and/or climbing, but which have a double purpose in combat. Utilities could involve making use of frost on a wider scale - creating a freezing mist that blinds enemies and provides cover for allies, a device that sprays snow and ice in all directions for an artificial blizzard, and a destructible ice wall could be interesting.

[Kodama.6453]

Hylek Alchemy

Don't know if that counts as technology. Huge fan of them, took them as allies for my personal stories and the scavenger hunt for my legendary pistol H.O.P.E. was really cool to get some more insight on Hylek alchemy, which then got combined with Asuran energy tech.

The Hylek are one of the least technologically advanced races, but they are seen as the authority when it comes to alchemy, since their natural resistance against poisons and other harmful substances allowed them to experiment more daringly in this subject. And especially these harmful substances are what I am most interested in, I wish we could get some more focus on spreading poison gases, spilling acid to rip boons and the defenses of our enemies....

My dream for a future elite spec would be an engineer focusing on acids and poison gases while wielding either a staff or dual daggers. I would imagine something similar to Viper from Valorant, we are spreading chemical fogs on the battlefield to take control of an area through varying benefits.

The spec could get ambush skills for all existing weapons, triggering whenever you enter one of these chemical fogs. The fog could get traited to either deal condition damage, rip boons from enemies (boon rip is something we really need, especially after they removed it from minefield) or stealthing us ("hiding" in the chemical fog).

Utility skills could maybe be preparations. I like the gameplay of traps, but we only have throw mine which is kind of similar. I could see us using preparations to spread our chemicals over the battlefield. Unique mechanic of these preparations could be that they have a short arming time like other traps (1 second), but if you wait additional time before reactivating them (5 seconds maybe?), they could have empowered effects. Basically "taking extra time to prepare your deadly concoctions".

Another option could be corruption skills. You are using dangerous chemicals, which Hylek just can use safely because of their natural resistance. So you using them will have a toll. Maybe our corruptions could take away a percentage of our health, instead of applying conditions on us, as the unique gameplay change.

Third option could be venoms. Not so sure what you could do with venoms to make them different and more interesting, tho.

_____________________________________________________________________________

If alchemy doesn't count as a form of technology, then there would also be:

Dredge Sonic Technology

All these sound and shockwaves are really cool. Before the existence of holosmith, I imagined an elite spec based on dredge technology to wield a sword, which is cutting by using high frequent vibrations. Most typical dredge weapons are already covered, but the spec could maybe use a staff or greatsword.

Utility skills could be tricks, shouts (maybe you have devices for emitting soundwaves around you, having effects on either friend or foe... or both?).

[draxynnic.3719]

You know, dredge sonic technology is a really obvious one that had somehow slipped my mind...

The obvious weapons are taken. I could see dagger working with the concept you describe, but I think sceptre could also work, with the elite specialisation weapon being covered in various forms of speakers (for other sceptres, they could be assumed to be simply better hidden). I think a one-handed weapon would definitely work best, though, on the following basis: The third slot could then be a dual skill. If you combine it with shield, the third skill involves gonging your shield like a Disaggregator. If you combine it with pistol, the third skill involves amplifying the sound of the gunshot into a sonic wave.

[Bizgurk.5639]

Portal technology

Half a year after Gw2 went life almost every squad in Wvw had a Mesmer for portal and using portals used to be an integral part of large scale fighting. There were rumors that Anet plans to grant other professions access to portals as well. With all those Asuran Gates around Tyria and all those Engineers maintaining them, I expected that we would get a portal-utility sooner or later. I was rather surprised when Scourge got Sand Swell and some time later, when the thief profession received the Shadow Portal. Another time when Blish talked about his work to open small rift-like portals I wished to find his blueprints somewhere...

I still hope for an ability with which we could build a small Asuran Gate and set up the exit on a second location.

[Kodama.6453]

37 minutes ago, Bizgurk.5639 said:

Portal technology

Half a year after Gw2 went life almost every squad in Wvw had a Mesmer for portal and using portals used to be an integral part of large scale fighting. There were rumors that Anet plans to grant other professions access to portals as well. With all those Asuran Gates around Tyria and all those Engineers maintaining them, I expected that we would get a portal-utility sooner or later. I was rather surprised when Scourge got Sand Swell and some time later, when the thief profession received the Shadow Portal. Another time when Blish talked about his work to open small rift-like portals I wished to find his blueprints somewhere...

I still hope for an ability with which we could build a small Asuran Gate and set up the exit on a second location.

Thematically interesting, but the thing with portals is... they are so extremely situational.

I can't even remember when I saw someone use sand swell or shadow portal the last time. And even the mesmer portal, which is the best iteration of this mechanic still (since it is bidrectional) is just used very rarely at very specific content, like using the portal at the Drakkar fight to let people help fighting the champions while they have the debuff that disallows them to join the fight normally.

This skill type seems like dead weight on a profession 99% of the time, tbh.

Edited November 22, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[Kodama.6453]

9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

You know, dredge sonic technology is a really obvious one that had somehow slipped my mind...

The obvious weapons are taken. I could see dagger working with the concept you describe, but I think sceptre could also work, with the elite specialisation weapon being covered in various forms of speakers (for other sceptres, they could be assumed to be simply better hidden). I think a one-handed weapon would definitely work best, though, on the following basis: The third slot could then be a dual skill. If you combine it with shield, the third skill involves gonging your shield like a Disaggregator. If you combine it with pistol, the third skill involves amplifying the sound of the gunshot into a sonic wave.

Yeah, dagger and scepter might work as well.

If we go for the dual wield mechanic, then I think engineer would need a dual wielded weapon to go with it, tho. Our lack of weapons from core is limiting such a mechanic way too much. We just have1 mainhand core weapon and 2 offhands.

If we just add a new mainhand, then we get just 4 dual wield skills from the mechanic in total, which seems a bit like a waste of this mechanic, tbh. If we add a mainhand + offhand of a weapon (like letting the spec dual wield axes or daggers), then we at least get a total of 6 dual wield skills.

[Eekasqueak.7850]

11 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

You know, dredge sonic technology is a really obvious one that had somehow slipped my mind...

The obvious weapons are taken. I could see dagger working with the concept you describe, but I think sceptre could also work, with the elite specialisation weapon being covered in various forms of speakers (for other sceptres, they could be assumed to be simply better hidden). I think a one-handed weapon would definitely work best, though, on the following basis: The third slot could then be a dual skill. If you combine it with shield, the third skill involves gonging your shield like a Disaggregator. If you combine it with pistol, the third skill involves amplifying the sound of the gunshot into a sonic wave.

Not warhorn for sound tech theme?

[EvilZombie.6801]

The more you people talk the more i feel like SKAVEN are we are going to be BRING THE RATLING GUN 

[Kodama.6453]

4 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Not warhorn for sound tech theme?

Unless Anet finally bites the bullet and gives us an more core weapons with an update, I don't think engineer can get an offhand weapon with an elite spec.

Other classes have multiple mainhand weapon to combine a new offhand with, so even if they get just 2 new weapon skills, it still has alot of potential when it comes to combinations. Engineer just has one single mainhand weapon for a new offhand, pistol. This kills build diversity and also means that every new offhand weapon through an elite spec would have to be condition damage or utility focused, directly competing with the niches of our other 2 offhands (pistol and shield).

[Dadnir.5038]

There are many pieces of interesting technology that can be found in the core game that I'd find interesting. That said there is one that remind me my teen years and that I'd love to see exploited.

When someone start as a Charr, the ghost issue that this race face is heavily enphasized and there are some charr engineers that talk about experimental technology to face specters and ghosts.

It might be silly but I'd love to have the ghostbuster kit/theme exploited. The paralysing laser beam and the ghost trap. The outfit... I absolutely need this outfit for my engineer...

Translated in GW2, that would be a spec that use scepter and focus. Scepter would send 3 kind of beams while focus skills would work like a powerbase, buffing the engineer (pretty standard design all in all). Tool belt skills would be fixed as devices that you throw at the feets of your foes, draining their ectoplasmic energy (applying debuffs) every seconds for 3 seconds. After those 3 seconds the devices can be detonated to summon fantasms that would attack the targeted foe (You could have a trait that make them explode in a sticky goo upon disappearing). Utilities would be a set of preparations.

 

NB: I wouldn't even have thought about it if it wasn't for this thread.

[draxynnic.3719]

8 hours ago, Eekasqueak.7850 said:

Not warhorn for sound tech theme?

Like @Kodama.6453 said, as long as pistol is the only mainhand weapon, it'd be unfair to introduce an offhand with an elite spec unless pistol gets some strong buffs and the weapon is strongly condition-oriented. Could go with an elite spec mainhand plus warhorn, but thus far there's no precedent for receiving two weapons with an elite spec.

 

11 hours ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Yeah, dagger and scepter might work as well.

If we go for the dual wield mechanic, then I think engineer would need a dual wielded weapon to go with it, tho. Our lack of weapons from core is limiting such a mechanic way too much. We just have1 mainhand core weapon and 2 offhands.

If we just add a new mainhand, then we get just 4 dual wield skills from the mechanic in total, which seems a bit like a waste of this mechanic, tbh. If we add a mainhand + offhand of a weapon (like letting the spec dual wield axes or daggers), then we at least get a total of 6 dual wield skills.

As long as there aren't a bunch of traits based around it, I'd be fine if it was just the sonic weapon that had the dual skill mechanic, and it only had two choices. It's basically about getting the gong effect while also having something that works with pistol.

Wouldn't complain if there was more than that, though. 😎

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

There are many pieces of interesting technology that can be found in the core game that I'd find interesting. That said there is one that remind me my teen years and that I'd love to see exploited.

When someone start as a Charr, the ghost issue that this race face is heavily enphasized and there are some charr engineers that talk about experimental technology to face specters and ghosts.

It might be silly but I'd love to have the ghostbuster kit/theme exploited. The paralysing laser beam and the ghost trap. The outfit... I absolutely need this outfit for my engineer...

Translated in GW2, that would be a spec that use scepter and focus. Scepter would send 3 kind of beams while focus skills would work like a powerbase, buffing the engineer (pretty standard design all in all). Tool belt skills would be fixed as devices that you throw at the feets of your foes, draining their ectoplasmic energy (applying debuffs) every seconds for 3 seconds. After those 3 seconds the devices can be detonated to summon fantasms that would attack the targeted foe (You could have a trait that make them explode in a sticky goo upon disappearing). Utilities would be a set of preparations.

 

NB: I wouldn't even have thought about it if it wasn't for this thread.

Objective achieved!

Have to admit, I'd thought charr tech was exhausted and didn't think of the ghostbuster theme, even though I'd cited the Ghost Collector staff. Not to mention having done a ghostbuster-themed Ascalonian Catacombs run back in the HoT beta (we were all running air tempests in order to have lots of streams to cross - we also figured out appropriate armour sets, but I'd need to do a lot of digging to remind myself of what we used).

Could be a good opportunity for an Ascalonian Ghostfire preparation. Another skill could be a containment field that knocks enemies that attempt to cross it into the centre of the ring. Could be cute if the skill had a special effect that allowed it to contain enemies using Mist Form, Distortion, and other abilities with a "you can't hit me, I'm insubstantial!" theme. Could be interesting going through the various ghost-oriented events and see if anything jumps out... 

[Dadnir.5038]

Other:

- We got gliders in game, flying ships, hovering rocks, drones, legless mechs and floating cities. I believe engineers have enough material to create a technology allowing them to fly.

- Tanks/vehicles. (Core/HoT)

- Prostetic arms/exoarms (EoD).

- Hovering lego technology! Those cube that fuses into a different shape (more often into big boss golem).

 

I can 100% imagine a spec whose main feature are exoarm with a set of skills attach to the toolbelt.

A e-spec with a jetpack that allow to close the gap or widen it as well as go up in the air for a few seconds avoiding non projectiles attack... etc.

The same way I can imagine a an e-spec's staff that would change into a GS, Hammer, great axe or a spear thanks to this lego technology. No kidding, lose access to standard weapon and belt skills but instead you get default staff on F1, GS on F2, Hammer on F3, Great axe on F4 and spear on F5. 25 new weapon skills...

[Ovalkvadratcylinder.9365]

dredge

[Sindust.7059]

Asura gates/white mantle portal devices. As an engineer I should be able to figure it out tech based teleportation.

[Kodama.6453]

14 minutes ago, Sindust.7059 said:

Asura gates/white mantle portal devices. As an engineer I should be able to figure it out tech based teleportation.

Well, shift signet implies that we at least thematically did figure out tech based teleportation. Just with jade tech instead of Asuran tech or white mantle devices.

[Sindust.7059]

16 minutes ago, Kodama.6453 said:

Well, shift signet implies that we at least thematically did figure out tech based teleportation. Just with jade tech instead of Asuran tech or white mantle devices.

Yes, but not really, because we can't teleport other people.

[Holly.8190]

Signets are also technically Orrian Magic so it might not even be tech 🤷‍♀️

[Kodama.6453]

2 hours ago, Holly.8190 said:

Signets are also technically Orrian Magic so it might not even be tech 🤷‍♀️

Wait, where is that lore snippet exactly coming from?

Since the entire spec is basically jade tech, I imagined that these signets might just use dragon jade as a magical source, too. Would make more sense for me than the mechanist randomly also using Orrian magic.

[Holly.8190]

The gods, in their wisdom, dispersed their magic throughout Tyria. Magic was dissipated, so that none may be too tempted by its power. We know that we can draw and contain magic through intense study and the use of certain materials—'signets'—and also with the blessing of all the Five. Have the Orrian people simply internalized these lessons? Is the land there so magical that all are born with the ability to use magic without the need for education? My theory will require more research...

— A research paper with the heading, "Signets"

[Kodama.6453]

6 minutes ago, Holly.8190 said:

The gods, in their wisdom, dispersed their magic throughout Tyria. Magic was dissipated, so that none may be too tempted by its power. We know that we can draw and contain magic through intense study and the use of certain materials—'signets'—and also with the blessing of all the Five. Have the Orrian people simply internalized these lessons? Is the land there so magical that all are born with the ability to use magic without the need for education? My theory will require more research...

— A research paper with the heading, "Signets"

Hm, ok, makes sense in alot of context. For example, I can definitely see the signets of the ranger originally being driven by Melandru's magic and that they taught how to do it to their caste.

But I don't see this applying to the mechanist, tbh. Still think it makes more sense for these to be jade tech based. Especially since they are using technical terms for their signets (rectifier signet, superconducting signet, overclock signet, etc.).

Also the fact that our signets are working with the mech (radiating electricity from it, causing a force field around it, commanding it to fire a laser beam, etc).

Edited November 24, 2022 by Kodama.6453

[Holly.8190]

Yeah I think Anet just wanted the passive effect on Mech and just decided to say kitten the lore or maybe they forgot themselves. Personally i think the idea of Facets would have been a cooler way to achieve the passive effects on Mechanist.

[draxynnic.3719]

Facets would be even more inherently magical, I think.

My interpretation of mech signets is that they're activation devices for technology, albeit using magic from dragonjade as a power source. Regardless of their origin, signets were ubiquitous enough that it makes sense that an inventor looking for for something to act as a magic-powered remote activation device would probably naturally think of signets. Now, ArenaNet probably could have skipped the proverbial middleman here and named the skills after the technology being used directly, but signets have become universally recognised among the player base as being the "passive effect that you can sacrifice for an active effect" skill group. 

[Alcatraznc.3869]

Part of me think the cryo theme would have been a good introduction in the Icebrooth saga IF Anet made it a complete DLC. It will heavily depends on what next expansion theme Anet will focus on. Unless we return to a ice theme place, a cryo spec is less likely to happens, which is a shame honestly. Engineer has a certain affinity with fire so having an ice spec would have been an interesting concept. 

 

 

 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

1 hour ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

Part of me think the cryo theme would have been a good introduction in the Icebrooth saga IF Anet made it a complete DLC. It will heavily depends on what next expansion theme Anet will focus on. Unless we return to a ice theme place, a cryo spec is less likely to happens, which is a shame honestly. Engineer has a certain affinity with fire so having an ice spec would have been an interesting concept. 

I'm not sure about that. Sure, I used Mei as an example, and her background was "antarctic climate researcher" - but in IBS Jormag was an enemy for most of it, so even if there were Frost Legion members of a hypothetical cryo engineer spec, it's unlikely it would have transferred to the PC. Maybe as some sort of technology-sharing during the truce against Primordus phase.

I could just as easily see it crop up as a response to fire-based threats. The technology could have started development as a response to an overly hot environment. It could have been made as a weapon against fire creatures (the Destroyers are probably gone now, but there are plenty of other cold-susceptible creatures around). Or it could be themed around technologically advanced firefighters who realised that their firefighting equipment could be weaponised, which is a concept that would work pretty much anywhere where firefighters are needed and there's technology to develop cryogenic firefighting equipment.

[Dadnir.5038]

32 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I'm not sure about that. Sure, I used Mei as an example, and her background was "antarctic climate researcher" - but in IBS Jormag was an enemy for most of it, so even if there were Frost Legion members of a hypothetical cryo engineer spec, it's unlikely it would have transferred to the PC. Maybe as some sort of technology-sharing during the truce against Primordus phase.

I could just as easily see it crop up as a response to fire-based threats. The technology could have started development as a response to an overly hot environment. It could have been made as a weapon against fire creatures (the Destroyers are probably gone now, but there are plenty of other cold-susceptible creatures around). Or it could be themed around technologically advanced firefighters who realised that their firefighting equipment could be weaponised, which is a concept that would work pretty much anywhere where firefighters are needed and there's technology to develop cryogenic firefighting equipment.

Well, GW2 is a fantasy game. For all we know, a civilization could need cryotech to freely move on top of lava, acid or simply water (maybe even make temporary bridges between 2 high cliffs). They could need cryotech to break unexpectedly solid rocks or they could have simply explored this discpline because they think it's the best way to keep food from rotting and food is scarse while the environment tend to make things rot quickly (hot and humid environment tend to do that).

There could be an underwater x-pac, wouldn't it be easier to make building/houses out of ice deep in the abyss? I mean, we got plenty enough underwater material to expect an underwater x-pac (would ease competitive balance if the e-specs had underwater weapons instead of land weapon. Would make the competitive player unhappy thought...)