Couldn't we just completely scrap flanking from Shortbow and Loyf and make it baseline?

[Mauti.3520]

Personally I see no point in it anymore why Ranger's Shortbow works the way it does and always did. And quite frankly I never understood it before. It just felt like an unnecessary drawback no other class had to bother with to this extend. Why would I imagine to scrap it? Well:

 

1. For Solo Play it doesn't work. Guild Wars 2 Pets can't reliably tank and the Ranger thus can't reliably flank all the time. It just makes the output from said weapon highly erratic.
2. For Instanced PvE you just do as good as anyone else if flanking 100% and do just numerically worse if high flanking uptime can't be maintained.
3. In PvP it makes Shortbow worse than it needs to be. Condi Ranger never really has been the hot stuff in PvP either, nor is it right now afaik.
    

So what about we think about just scrapping this unneeded drawback from the Shortbow entirely and make the recent flanking effects just....baseline?

(1) Crossfire: Applies full Bleeding Duration
(2) Poison Volley: Applies full Poison Duration
(3) Quick Shot: No changes
(4) Crippling Shot: Always applies Immobilize
(5) Concussion Shot: Always stuns the target

Skirmishing Grandmaster Trait - Light on your Feet: Shortbow Skills are improved no matter if flanking or not.

Doesn't sound that OP to me. What do you fellow Rangers and other people think about that?

Edited November 22, 2022 by Mauti.3520

[DeanBB.4268]

I agree, make it so!

[Beddo.1907]

(Hunter's Tactics also has flanking btw.)
The mechanic sounds rewarding on paper, but there is not nearly enough movement to change your position to make it viable.
In team you don't pick the position, your entire team does, so you can't just move away for some bonuses. Making your team move also defeats the purpose of it.
Not to mention the SB numbers are not too great to begin with, even with flank. 

Would be great if Shortbow was reworked as a ground target weapon, with some offensive effects added, but I'd take at least removing the flank. The other flank effects can go without any objections.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

I'd baseline flanking and have LoYF just make the shortbow range be 1200.  You almost always take it with shortbow anyway, and if you didn't, then the tradeoff is the 900 its currently at.  

As it never made sense to me why shortbow is 900 when axe is.  It should be axe at 900, shortbow at 1200, and longbow at 1500.  

[Mauti.3520]

Oh, if I am not mistaken, Shortbow was 1200 range at one point, I think relatively early in Guild Wars 2's lifespan.
Wether to increase it back to this value is debateable, I guess. For me it's not a big deal.

[Axelteas.7192]

I want devs explain me how to flank when i'm merged with my pet as soulbeast.

[Beddo.1907]

2 hours ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

I want devs explain me how to flank when i'm merged with my pet as soulbeast.

Roll through the target and get like 2 hits in.
(Or just unmerge)

[Substance E.4852]

On 11/22/2022 at 11:04 PM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

I'd baseline flanking and have LoYF just make the shortbow range be 1200.  You almost always take it with shortbow anyway, and if you didn't, then the tradeoff is the 900 its currently at.  

As it never made sense to me why shortbow is 900 when axe is.  It should be axe at 900, shortbow at 1200, and longbow at 1500.  

900 range shortbow is a fossil from the bygone days when short bow zerk builds were our highest dps and literally were just us auto attacking

Getting 1500 per hit, 100% crit chance autos off was considered "really good"

Anet couldn't think of a better way to make the weapon better beyond it's auto attack so they just nerfed the attack speed and the range so people would stop using it altogether (until condi builds became a thing) and stopped making the game look like a clown fiesta (back before they stopped caring about such things)

[Nephalem.8921]

On 11/23/2022 at 6:15 PM, Axelteas.7192 said:

I want devs explain me how to flank when i'm merged with my pet as soulbeast.

I want devs explain to me how flanking is supposed to work in a game without proper tanking. Sometimes its just impossible like artsariiv or messes with mechanics like ankka. ankka jumps over 1 player so a flanking player is just griefing.

Even ff14 devs consider removing it completely and that game has proper tanks and a skill to ignore flanking for a few seconds. It just hinders encounter design too much. Not that gw2 devs would care. Flanking specs are just unplayable on a lot of bosses here.

[anduriell.6280]

On 11/22/2022 at 7:35 PM, Mauti.3520 said:

Personally I see no point in it anymore why Ranger's Shortbow works the way it does and always did. And quite frankly I never understood it before. It just felt like an unnecessary drawback no other class had to bother with to this extend. Why would I imagine to scrap it? Well:

 

1. For Solo Play it doesn't work. Guild Wars 2 Pets can't reliably tank and the Ranger thus can't reliably flank all the time. It just makes the output from said weapon highly erratic.
2. For Instanced PvE you just do as good as anyone else if flanking 100% and do just numerically worse if high flanking uptime can't be maintained.
3. In PvP it makes Shortbow worse than it needs to be. Condi Ranger never really has been the hot stuff in PvP either, nor is it right now afaik.
    

So what about we think about just scrapping this unneeded drawback from the Shortbow entirely and make the recent flanking effects just....baseline?

(1) Crossfire: Applies full Bleeding Duration
(2) Poison Volley: Applies full Poison Duration
(3) Quick Shot: No changes
(4) Crippling Shot: Always applies Immobilize
(5) Concussion Shot: Always stuns the target

Skirmishing Grandmaster Trait - Light on your Feet: Shortbow Skills are improved no matter if flanking or not.

Doesn't sound that OP to me. What do you fellow Rangers and other people think about that?

Oh, if I am not mistaken, Shortbow was 1200 range at one point, I think relatively early in Guild Wars 2's lifespan.
Wether to increase it back to this value is debateable, I guess. For me it's not a big deal.

It is not OP, the full values aren't that great. 

I did share some time ago to keep somehow the different values to allow the shortbow to splinter on impact similar to how the harpoon's splinter shot works: So mechanically would work a bit like a faster straight mortar projectile.   

Target in the center would get the full value while up to 2 additional enemies in a short radius would get the current diminished values. The GM could increase the radius of that area and the amount of targets to 4. 

That would solve a mayor issue with ranger: total lack of ranged AoE weapons for different activities: mobs clearing, WvW zerging, PvE farming. 

But at this point i have zero confidence Anet devs are interested in working in anything which is not their favorites.