Ranger Crit chance and crit damage and conditions applied

[Dennis.6952]

I have a ranger that is spec'ed for high boon duration and  precision, crit chance and crit damage.  My question is,  does the condition damage my weapons do increase with critical hits and critical damage modifiers?.  I had sigils that increase their weapon's associated condition duration (bleeds/poison/burning)/  The character played well and PvE mobs died rather quickly.  I thought maybe if I swapped out the condi duration's sigils for accuracy to further boost critical hits (and do more damage overall) the play would improve.  The opposite actually happened, I wasn't killing as efficiently and subsequently "ME"  taking more damage in the process.  So with high precision, crit chance and crit damage, do the condi's I apply benefit from the critical hits I impart?

[Mell.4873]

If we had more information we could help more but you are on the right track if you want to focus one Power damage and Boon Duration. 

For the most part Ranger does not need Boon Duration since it either uses Soulbeast's Essence of Speed with Quickness Sigils or Untamed's Fervent Force with Stunning skills. 

Edited February 13, 2023 by Mell.4873

[Zyreva.1078]

No, condis can't crit and therefore precision and ferocity won't increase the dmg of your condis . However there are traits (sharpened edges) and sigils (eg. earth) that can apply conditions on crit and all weapons deal at least some strike dmg that can crit, so depending on the build investing into crits can be beneficial even for a condi/hybrid build.

If you have no "on crit" condi application and also low power however, then investing into crits is a waste (condi duration sigils or sigils that apply additional condis will always be better than accuracy sigil for a condi or hybrid build).

[Dennis.6952]

Running assassin's everything, Pack runes, Skirmishing 1-1-3, Beastmaster 3-3-3 and soulbeast 3-2-2.  My boon up time for might, vigor, fury, ferocity, swiftness is off the charts,  Once I start combat, all these boons are active for the entire fight and some of them  for a long time afterward,

 

SB Sigils Agony and venom, Axe sigil agony warhorn sigil cleanse.  Bristleback as pet which I rarely merge with. 

 

With the above w/o food (no food or utility buffs) Power 2100  precision  2500+,  1176 Ferocity, 75.8% Crit chance and 228% crit damage  15% boon duration from the runes.  Food is the butternut squash +100 precision and +70 to fury when I eat it. ha!

 

I swapped out the condi duration sigils for accuracy on SB and axe, and on the bow added generosity for a cleanse on each crit hit.  I left the cleanse on the warhorn.  This combo really sucked....LOL   Kill time lengthened on all fights and I took way more damage overall.  Switched back and things are good again.

 

That was the reason I asked about my high crit chance and crit damage increasing the sigil duration damage thus causing more damage overall.  I couldn't believe just losing a flat 20% condi duration would have such an impact.

I really dislike the LB for it's slow attacks.  I prefer faster hits for more damage and to keep moving

 

[Mell.4873]

5 hours ago, Dennis.6952 said:

Running assassin's everything, Pack runes, Skirmishing 1-1-3, Beastmaster 3-3-3 and soulbeast 3-2-2.  My boon up time for might, vigor, fury, ferocity, swiftness is off the charts,  Once I start combat, all these boons are active for the entire fight and some of them  for a long time afterward,

 

SB Sigils Agony and venom, Axe sigil agony warhorn sigil cleanse.  Bristleback as pet which I rarely merge with. 

 

With the above w/o food (no food or utility buffs) Power 2100  precision  2500+,  1176 Ferocity, 75.8% Crit chance and 228% crit damage  15% boon duration from the runes.  Food is the butternut squash +100 precision and +70 to fury when I eat it. ha!

 

I swapped out the condi duration sigils for accuracy on SB and axe, and on the bow added generosity for a cleanse on each crit hit.  I left the cleanse on the warhorn.  This combo really sucked....LOL   Kill time lengthened on all fights and I took way more damage overall.  Switched back and things are good again.

 

That was the reason I asked about my high crit chance and crit damage increasing the sigil duration damage thus causing more damage overall.  I couldn't believe just losing a flat 20% condi duration would have such an impact.

I really dislike the LB for it's slow attacks.  I prefer faster hits for more damage and to keep moving

 

So your only condition duration comes from Sigils?

If so, you should definitely swap. If all your doing is using this for is Open World get Sigil of Bloodlust and Force instead.

[enkeny.6937]

11 hours ago, Dennis.6952 said:

Running assassin's everything, Pack runes, Skirmishing 1-1-3, Beastmaster 3-3-3 and soulbeast 3-2-2.  My boon up time for might, vigor, fury, ferocity, swiftness is off the charts,  Once I start combat, all these boons are active for the entire fight and some of them  for a long time afterward,

 

SB Sigils Agony and venom, Axe sigil agony warhorn sigil cleanse.  Bristleback as pet which I rarely merge with. 

 

With the above w/o food (no food or utility buffs) Power 2100  precision  2500+,  1176 Ferocity, 75.8% Crit chance and 228% crit damage  15% boon duration from the runes.  Food is the butternut squash +100 precision and +70 to fury when I eat it. ha!

 

I swapped out the condi duration sigils for accuracy on SB and axe, and on the bow added generosity for a cleanse on each crit hit.  I left the cleanse on the warhorn.  This combo really sucked....LOL   Kill time lengthened on all fights and I took way more damage overall.  Switched back and things are good again.

 

That was the reason I asked about my high crit chance and crit damage increasing the sigil duration damage thus causing more damage overall.  I couldn't believe just losing a flat 20% condi duration would have such an impact.

I really dislike the LB for it's slow attacks.  I prefer faster hits for more damage and to keep moving

 

You can forget the condition part of this build. no condition damage, expertise than condition is some nice 'extra'. 
I also recommend you to switch the short bow and assassin's prefix.
You use vicious quarry... fury gives you +40% crit chance! hacing 60% base crit chance is enough. If you flank, you only need 50% base crit chance. (hunter's tactic). This is the reason you felt the accuracy sigil was worse, because  it will do nothing why you have fury. (If you are down-scaled in low lever area, you may be not have 100% crit chance, but there power count more!)

Essence of speed, without quickness source. you may use quickening zephyr. maybe with a well timed "we heal as one!" but that's all. No 'live fast', no 'zephyr's speed', no sigil either. 

Britleback is good, only problem is it is 'deadly' archetype. I it tanky, ranged, hase a nice merge ability to pre-cast. My ecperience is (so it is for me) canine pets hold the aggro better. Also a supportive or versatile archetype my be better. 

so the 3 main problem I see here:
1) thinking boosting condi in a power build
2) not knowing you have already achieved the maximum critical chance, but trying go higher.
3) not reading the traits. (and guides, for the sake of 'why it is this way')
 

[Zaret.1450]

18 hours ago, Dennis.6952 said:

I have a ranger that is spec'ed for high boon duration and  precision, crit chance and crit damage.  My question is,  does the condition damage my weapons do increase with critical hits and critical damage modifiers?.  I had sigils that increase their weapon's associated condition duration (bleeds/poison/burning)/  The character played well and PvE mobs died rather quickly.  I thought maybe if I swapped out the condi duration's sigils for accuracy to further boost critical hits (and do more damage overall) the play would improve.  The opposite actually happened, I wasn't killing as efficiently and subsequently "ME"  taking more damage in the process.  So with high precision, crit chance and crit damage, do the condi's I apply benefit from the critical hits I impart?

There's 2 tipes of dmg in the game, power dmg and condi dmg, or you could call them strike dmg and dot dmg, strike dmg is for example when a gs strikes a foe and its main stats are power, for the base dmg, crit chance, for the chamce of that hit to be critical, and crit dmg, wich is the multiplier of said crit strike.

On the other side we have dots, venom, bleed, torment etc, wich have condi dmg, for the dmg increase in said dot, and condi duration, the increase in the time the condition lasts.

Both are separate stats and dont mix, i mean if you go full berserk with a condi weapon you will do more strike dmg but your dots wont see any change, and viceversa.

There are some hibrid builds around where you make use of both strike and dot dmg but usually you get better dmg numbers focusing on one side.

as for boons, power affects both strike and condition dmg, so you usually want to have that, quickness, alac, those too affect both tipes of dmg, but in a... you could say roundabout way, as you hit faster and more with quick and alac.

Lastly in condi builds, while your main dmg comes from dots, stats like viper have also power stats, and it helps a bit as a secondary dmg source.

[Dennis.6952]

Thanks for the info guys.  Gives me plenty to consider.

 

What I am unclear on is the Crit chance percentage.  I'm not at 100% even with buffs and pet.  I always thought getting to 100% was the goal.  To me, 100% crit chance means every hit is a critical., no?

 

I did swap pets to a Tiger and red moa for the + to vigor as my build is focused on strike damage with the assassin items and the higher precision for more critical hitting..  My thinking being if my weapon hits for more crits (bigger damage numbers) a lot more often than a weapon that has a higher power rating with less precision (hits for less crits so lower damage) - even with a bit more power than the assassin's gear provides, it should be a "wash" in the end.......providing I hit for a lot more crits with the axes and SB..

 

I did swap out my soul beast traits from 3-2-2 to 2-2--2. I run mostly stance skills with "sic em" as my only command. so # 2 in the number 3 slot of sol beast gives me my Vulture's Doylak and One Wolf recharge quicker in addition to my "bear stance" heal on a reduced timer.

 

I didn't realize the accuracy sigil wasn't providing any benefit and the generosity was only taking care of any condi's that I pick up during a fight..  I can try a sigil of force, but wondering if the extra + to strike damage is going to off-set the bleeding and poison duration I inflict along with my direct attacks.  I certainly could see a high damage difference when I ditched the Accuracy sigil for the agony and venom sigils.   I'll throw one on my axe and another on the SB and see how I do. 

[RainbowTurtle.3542]

Shortbow is not a power damage weapon. Do not use shortbow for power damage. Either get new gear for condition damage (viper's or trailblazers stats, vipers for instanced content trailblazers for open world).

 

If you don't like longbow, use greatsword axe/axe. 

[enkeny.6937]

14 hours ago, Dennis.6952 said:

What I am unclear on is the Crit chance percentage.  I'm not at 100% even with buffs and pet.  I always thought getting to 100% was the goal.  To me, 100% crit chance means every hit is a critical., no?

full assassin is ~75%, fury +25%, vicious quarry trait +15%. Look your stats while you have fury (warhorn #5 helps)
 

14 hours ago, Dennis.6952 said:

I did swap out my soul beast traits from 3-2-2 to 2-2--2. I run mostly stance skills with "sic em" as my only command. so # 2 in the number 3 slot of sol beast gives me my Vulture's Doylak and One Wolf recharge quicker in addition to my "bear stance" heal on a reduced timer.

Still need some reading skill. Leader of the Pack don't reduce the recharge, it makes the duration longer. Also share to allies. 
It is still useful for this build.

I'm thinking you may mirror the numbers?
3-2-2 means: Unstoppable Union - Essence of Speed - Leader of the Pack
2-2-3 means: Live Fast - Essence of Speed - Oppressive Superiority
2-2-2 means: Live Fast - Essence of Speed - Leader of the Pack
So you wrote: 'I switched the first slot. I use this trait in third slot, because...'  It feels like you mixed it. 3rd slot shoud be the 3rd number in order.

For If you want big numbers, switch vulture"s stance to Signet of the Wild (don't use it, activating will loose the passive effect of +ferocity. not using it will increase the numbers.) 
frost trap also has nice damage.
Oppressive Superiority also increase numbers.

[Dennis.6952]

Yeah, I misspoke on the because..............Leader of the pack does increase the duration's and not recharge times.  I knew there was a reason for me taking it, my issue is not recalling exactly why I did.  So my bad.

 

I was originally running 3-2-2 on my soul beast line.  As I mentioned previously I usually run un-merged, so choosing #2 (live fast seemed to make more sense, as when I click F2 un-merged, I pick up the bonus that works with my build.

 

Im thinking of dropping one wolf pack (skill) for "strength of the pack".   Both have the same cool downs and strength of the pack seems to offer a lot more bonuses.

 

I'll try the changes you recommended.

 

Thank you.......