We Left 21 Pages of Feedback

[Obtena.7952]

39 minutes ago, Acanthus.8120 said:

I just want Anet to engage in discourse with us, dude. They don't have to say "yes". I just want to know what they (individually or as a company) think.

Weird accusation considering they 'discourse' with people in the patch notes, the roadmap, videos they put out explaining patch notes, posts about balance philosophy, etc ...  

I mean, what you are looking for is a conversation. That's typical of people who want to argue or complain they don't get what they want. Now ask yourself why that isn't happening. Probably because people don't understand that Anet's approach to game design isn't some democracy. It just doesn't work that way. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Dr Meta.3158]

On 2/15/2023 at 5:03 PM, Obtena.7952 said:

There have been instances where Anet didn't implement intended changes based on feedback so, when people say this forum feedback process is just  'posturing' ... that's just not honest and a bad attempt at guilt shaming. Some of the feedback is good and Anet does pay attention to it. The majority of it is not. 

Beyond the reputation that this person has garnered for their posts, this is actually accurate.

There are a few instances where planned patches are altered based on feedback on the couple of weeks leading up to it. Its just not brought up by anet or the players. Even the simple act of putting a line through changes that were originally posted but set not to go through, even without directly acknowledging the feedback prompted this change, would do wonders for arenanet and their image among the playerbase.

That being said, it is rather difficult to give feedback without a test server or even just making an accessible shard that has the changes implemented. But it is even more difficult to not have that AND to not have the full details on the patch notes. A lot of balance patches always have missing details and asking for feedback on what are essentially 50-80% filled in "clues" is mindboggling. This action right here goes a long way towards giving the impression that the playerbase's feedback is worthless to arenanet.

[Acanthus.8120]

12 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Weird accusation considering they 'discourse' with people in the patch notes, the roadmap, videos they put out explaining patch notes, posts about balance philosophy, etc ...  

I mean, what you are looking for is a conversation. That's typical of people who want to argue or complain they don't get what they want. Now ask yourself why that isn't happening. Probably because people don't understand that Anet's approach to game design isn't some democracy. It just doesn't work that way. 

That's incredibly nitpicky and extrapolation, lol. I hate to break it to you man, but most of us here aren't trying to score debate points on finding minute errors in grammar or wording and basing a whole argument around that, which is why you get confused emoji reactions and reactionary hostility all the time btw. But you know that. I don't think you're dumb. I just don't understand why you're this way, or if you think we're all too dumb to realize what you're doing. A lot of the times I engage with you, I simply think something interesting or good as a by-product of what we're talking about rather than anything good of coming of engaging with you directly.

And no. You are flat out wrong. If Anet came down from the heavens to bitchslap me over having a dumb opinion ("No, we're not going to do that now or ever, and here's why..."), that would be far preferable to deafening silence on serious issues that we sometimes have. Not everyone is you where we want to have a scrap to get what we want. Some of us engage in discourse to come to an understanding with each other.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Acanthus.8120 said:

That's incredibly nitpicky and extrapolation, lol. I hate to break it to you man, but most of us here aren't trying to score debate points on finding minute errors in grammar or wording and basing a whole argument around that, which is why you get confused emoji reactions and reactionary hostility all the time btw. But you know that. I don't think you're dumb. I just don't understand why you're this way, or if you think we're all too dumb to realize what you're doing. A lot of the times I engage with you, I simply think something interesting or good as a by-product of what we're talking about rather than anything good of coming of engaging with you directly.

And no. You are flat out wrong. If Anet came down from the heavens to bitchslap me over having a dumb opinion ("No, we're not going to do that now or ever, and here's why..."), that would be far preferable to deafening silence on serious issues that we sometimes have. Not everyone is you where we want to have a scrap to get what we want. Some of us engage in discourse to come to an understanding with each other.

No it's not, it's reality. It's completely unreasonable that Anet is going to have a direct conversation with players about why they don't do the things players want, especially if they ARE telling those players why they are doing the things they are doing. 

There is no 'deafening silence' ... that's not honest. It's not silence just because you aren't hearing what you want to hear. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Acanthus.8120]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

No it's not, it's reality. It's completely unreasonable that Anet is going to have a direct conversation with players about why they don't do the things players want. 

Bruh, how do you think we know that minimap functionality will never be more than it is (because it's a miracle it works at all)? As a result, we don't bug them about it anymore.

[Obtena.7952]

3 minutes ago, Acanthus.8120 said:

Bruh, how do you think we know that minimap functionality will never be more than it is (because it's a miracle it works at all)? As a result, we don't bug them about it anymore.

I have no idea what you are talking about. There is a process to fix bugs in the game ... we have evidence Anet fixes them, likely based on some priority ranking. 

What are you asking me here?

Edited February 20, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Acanthus.8120]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

I have no idea what you are talking about. There is a process to fix bugs in the game ... we have evidence Anet fixes them. What are you asking me here?

I'm not asking anything. I pointing out a past instance of them communicating with us that they can't or won't do something and the players letting up on the issue. I don't have an expectation that they reply to literally every opinion on the forum, because that's ridiculous, but they certainly could reply to certain topics that have gained traction over a significant number of people for a significant amount of time. For example, before the Reaper buffs actually happened, if they told me that it wouldn't happen, I would have been unhappy, sure, but I also would have stopped wasting time trying to get their attention about it. Likewise, if they told me that they were looking into it, I would have either asked them about specific pain points (which, you know, if they choose not to talk about, fine) or let it go. Anything in terms of communication is better than nothing. And getting nothing, when our input was explicitly asked for, is why people started this topic, which seems to be over your head.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Acanthus.8120 said:

I'm not asking anything. I pointing out a past instance of them communicating with us that they can't or won't do something and the players letting up on the issue. I don't have an expectation that they reply to literally every opinion on the forum, because that's ridiculous, but they certainly could reply to certain topics that have gained traction over a significant number of people for a significant amount of time. For example, before the Reaper buffs actually happened, if they told me that it wouldn't happen, I would have been unhappy, sure, but I also would have stopped wasting time trying to get their attention about it. Likewise, if they told me that they were looking into it, I would have either asked them about specific pain points (which, you know, if they choose not to talk about, fine) or let it go. Anything in terms of communication is better than nothing. And getting nothing, when our input was explicitly asked for, is why people started this topic, which seems to be over your head.

That's nice ... so you found some exception to their typical behaviour and now you set your unreasonable expectations on that exception. How's that going for you?

Again ... very dishonest to imply we don't get communication. We get lots, it's just not the communication you want. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[Acanthus.8120]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That's nice ... so you found some EXCEPTION to they typical behaviour and now you set your unreasonable expectations on that exception. How's that going for you?

And this post is supposed to accomplish, what? Hurting my feelings? I don't have enough emotional investment in you for you to accomplish that. It just makes you look like a jerk and is exactly why you don't get respect.

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Acanthus.8120 said:

And this post is supposed to accomplish, what? 

I think it should be obvious that the statement I'm making here is that you are basing your expectations for how you want Anet to 'communicate' with you on specific topics is based on something that was expectional, which makes your expectations unrealistic. 

Again, you seem to try to be implying Anet doesn't communicate. They do ... but they do it how THEY see fit to do so. That's not unreasonable. If they are going to reply to hot topics, they are going to do so in a way and in a time THEY see fit, not to the unreasonable expectations and demands of players. 

Edited February 20, 2023 by Obtena.7952

[shrew.3059]

I am not in a position to discuss ANet’s resources, or whether they can spare personnel to have regular back-and-forth discussions with their community, but I can imagine if they aren’t doing it it’s either because they can’t afford it, or it doesn’t provide adequate value for money. I couldn’t even say at what level this evaluation would be done, since different companies have different planning/budgetary structures.

What I can say, is that even if they could do it, these channels can be a trap; while it sounds obvious to put designers/developers in direct contact with users/consumers, this can lead to a lot less work being done and project plan railroading. In a perfect world this wouldn’t be the case, but I just can’t see how an open dialogue like this would work given the amount of users versus the amount of devs/pr reps. Either the discussions would be very superficial, or ANet would bleed tons of resources talking about features they wouldn’t have the money to implement. A one-way “suggestion box” format like the forums (with occasional roadmaps) is probably the best you can hope for.

Edited February 20, 2023 by shrew.3059

[Acanthus.8120]

4 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

I am not in a position to discuss ANet’s resources, or whether they can spare personnel to have regular back-and-forth discussions with their community, but I can imagine if they aren’t doing it it’s either because they can’t afford it, or it doesn’t provide adequate value for money. I couldn’t even say at what level this evaluation would be done, since different companies have different planning/budgetary structures.

What I can say, is that even if they could do it, these channels can be a trap; while it sounds obvious to put designers/developers in direct contact with users/consumers, this can lead to a lot less work being done and project plan railroading. In a perfect world this wouldn’t be the case, but I just can’t see how an open dialogue like this would work given the amount of users versus the amount of devs/pr reps. Either the discussions would be very superficial, or ANet would bleed tons of resources talking about features they wouldn’t have the money to implement. A one-way “suggestion box” format like the forums (with occasional roadmaps) is probably the best you can hope for.

If they came out and transparently said this, I would accept that too.

[shrew.3059]

14 minutes ago, Acanthus.8120 said:

If they came out and transparently said this, I would accept that too.

 

I hear that, and I wish we lived in a world where companies could just be honest about their decision-making (companies, governments, even regular people), but I think you can appreciate why they can’t. I can’t think of any company that would expose their internal mechanisms to that level of scrutiny in order to reassure their customers that they were doing their best.

[Acanthus.8120]

12 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

I hear that, and I wish we lived in a world where companies could just be honest about their decision-making (companies, governments, even regular people), but I think you can appreciate why they can’t. I can’t think of any company that would expose their internal mechanisms to that level of scrutiny in order to reassure their customers that they were doing their best.

I mean, it's not like they have to go into heavy detail about it when making such a statement, but I more or less get your point.

[Dr Meta.3158]

42 minutes ago, shrew.3059 said:

 

I hear that, and I wish we lived in a world where companies could just be honest about their decision-making (companies, governments, even regular people), but I think you can appreciate why they can’t. I can’t think of any company that would expose their internal mechanisms to that level of scrutiny in order to reassure their customers that they were doing their best.

Final Fantasy 14 was brought back from the brink of failure due to the decision to actively engage in the playerbase in decision making to rebuild the game into a game that was enjoyable for the playerbase. The results speaks for itself.