Rewards Structure Feedback and Suggestions

[Malus.2184]

The change to rewards in WvW is a good place to start and it still falls short if the intended goal is to get people more engaged in WvW and do the parts around sieging structure like Keeps and such.

The issues as I see them are

-          That the weekly rewards are a one-time deal, a checklist for players to do, and that only encourages them to do what’s on their checklist and then stop. Taking camps and killing dolyayks have become a lot more important for being able to crush a siege and the reward for doing that are small compared to the rewards for sieging itself. It also creates the same all-or-nothing attitude that Terror Toppler had in PvE which actively discouraged doing more than five raid CMs per week.

-          There’s also that defending an objective is a lot more profitable than attacking it and even if the objective is lost the defenders will usually have won a lot more than the attackers.

As I see it the solutions to those issues are:

-          Remove the weekly rewards and replace them with rolling rewards for doing the objectives that individually give less gold. For example, instead of taking 15 camps and get a reward of some skirmish tickets and some WvW Reward Track potions, and a mark on the checklist, it’s replaced by getting 1 gold, some Skirmish Tickets, and Reward Track pots. When it was done it would roll back to being 0/15 again with no weekly cap. The g/h for this would be ridiculously bad since there are 10 minutes between being able to flip a camp and there are only five camps on the BL maps and six on the EBG map.

What it would do would incentivise people to do the stuff that’s needed around sieges like flipping camps and killing dolys since the roamers would get a continuous reward for doing so.

-          As for sieging vs defending itself. Either replace the siege event with one that has a timer on it similar to the defense event or make it so that the reward of the attackers upon a successful siege is timed by the number of successful defense events so the rewards for the attacker are equal to those of the defender.

Of the two options I think the latter would be easier to implement since the former would see a lot of failures on the attacker’s side and successes on the defender’s side which would still give the defenders substantially more rewards than the attacker.

[Custodio.6134]

2 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

As for sieging vs defending itself. Either replace the siege event with one that has a timer on it similar to the defense event or make it so that the reward of the attackers upon a successful siege is timed by the number of successful defense events so the rewards for the attacker are equal to those of the defender.

this one sounds like an interesting idea, but one point needs to be specified further (although that should be obvious, but just in case): 

The reward for successfully attacking and flipping an objective should stack based on the number of consecutive successful defense-events before the objective got flipped. Otherwise you could just stack up failed attacks (aka, successful defenses) at any time to infinity, and get absurdly high rewards once you flip it almost uncontested at another time. That way the rewards for attempting to attack and defending are exactly the same

[Morden Kain.3489]

5 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

there are only five camps on the BL maps and six on the EBG map.

Someone needs to go back and count those camps on the BLs... There are six camps on each BL as well, NC, NEC, SEC, SC, SWC, and NWC...

[Malus.2184]

6 hours ago, Custodio.6134 said:

this one sounds like an interesting idea, but one point needs to be specified further (although that should be obvious, but just in case): 

The reward for successfully attacking and flipping an objective should stack based on the number of consecutive successful defense-events before the objective got flipped. Otherwise you could just stack up failed attacks (aka, successful defenses) at any time to infinity, and get absurdly high rewards once you flip it almost uncontested at another time. That way the rewards for attempting to attack and defending are exactly the same

Good point. While that was what I meant it was only in my own head, something like that needs to be spelled out.

2 hours ago, Morden Kain.3489 said:

Someone needs to go back and count those camps on the BLs... There are six camps on each BL as well, NC, NEC, SEC, SC, SWC, and NWC.

You're right, forgot about the one on top. It makes no practical difference in the grander scheme of g/h.

[Morden Kain.3489]

18 hours ago, Malus.2184 said:

You're right, forgot about the one on top. It makes no practical difference in the grander scheme of g/h.

You are correct, most people tend to stay away from NC, as it is a quick run to get to from the Citadel. 

Depending on how good your team is doing, you may be stuck with just the lower 3 camps on the map.  You would also need to be aware of when the camps flip for you to go back.  Given those, I believe you could get the 15 camps done (on a good day, everything going "as planned") within 50 mins. (using waypoints to restart your route) using the three southern camps (since they flip the most frequently).

If you throw in the NW and NE camps, you can reduce that time down to 30 mins... on a good day 😉.  I think I am lucky to get 1-2 g/h within a zerg doing zerg fights (between the garbage and coin).  I mean, I have done 12 hour stints and walk away from WvW only ~10g richer.

[Goglak.2591]

The new reward system is garbage, it encourages people to just sit on walls and wait for handouts, we now have even more AFK'ers just running into a wall (they really need to fix that) than ever. Right now the Queue is 32 and i can stand here and see 7 AFK in SMC running into a wall getting rewards. 

And we still want more tickets not Grand Master Shared, i have a bank full of those.

and STOP the rewards for fixing the wall, selfish scrub bots are just standing fixing SMC walls for rewards and no supplies to build anything else.

Edited February 17, 2023 by Goglak.2591

[Malus.2184]

On 2/17/2023 at 5:07 PM, Morden Kain.3489 said:

You are correct, most people tend to stay away from NC, as it is a quick run to get to from the Citadel. 

Depending on how good your team is doing, you may be stuck with just the lower 3 camps on the map.  You would also need to be aware of when the camps flip for you to go back.  Given those, I believe you could get the 15 camps done (on a good day, everything going "as planned") within 50 mins. (using waypoints to restart your route) using the three southern camps (since they flip the most frequently).

Which IMO is good since you need to keep the supplies for the defender to a minimum, and this is the reason rewards should be rolling. Right now, someone doing the necessary is in a way punished for doing it since their total reward is going to be significantly less than the assaulters. It's okay that the reward is smaller, risk and rewards, after all, this much is just insulting t hough.

[Morden Kain.3489]

On 2/17/2023 at 1:52 PM, Goglak.2591 said:

The new reward system is garbage, it encourages people to just sit on walls and wait for handouts, we now have even more AFK'ers just running into a wall (they really need to fix that) than ever. Right now the Queue is 32 and i can stand here and see 7 AFK in SMC running into a wall getting rewards. 

In another thread several months ago I mentioned how to fix this problem.  To summarize:

• If there is no queue, let them run in place for up to 15 mins.  This gives folks that need to take a "smoke break" to do so and come back.
• If there is a queue, start kicking the folks that have been running in place the longest, and work down until there is either no queue, or there is no longer any one that has been running in place for the normal allotted time for being AFK (I believe this is 5-10 mins).

Given the above two, it would take care of the AFKers that you mention.  As well, it would also take care of those that are "spying" using alt accounts and AFKing in the start area or running into walls in keeps/towers.

[Junkpile.7439]

Haven't notice any difference. We still don't have any players to defend or cap anything. Outnumbered buff in eb and 2 borderlands whole time. Did you all queue whiners transfer in stacked server?

[Draygo.9473]

Anet needs to adjust values I think, Wall repairing shouldnt give more than the t0 reward. Repairing a wall already gives raw wxp, so I don't think it needs to count for the defense quest. 

 

Destroying Siege, Killing Players should advance the reward the fastest. Healing a damaged ally should also advance the reward (super small bump per ally healed in combat), it should be roughly balanced that support players get the same bonus rewards as dps players. Frankly just doing damage to enemy players should give you small amount of credit to attack/defense quests. 

 

For attackers, destroying siege, destroying objective walls/doors should advance the rewards. 

 

Failed defense is currently not rewarding anything extra - I believe it was intended that this was supposed to reward something.

 

Bug: Failing to kill a dolyak but getting credit toward the event, will infinitely reward the player with exp and participation as long as the dolyak isnt killed.