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Support Chrono


Roadkizzle.2157

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TLDR:

-Can Chronomancers be a good group support Spec? I've seen conflicting information around the community.

-Of the Chrono is lacking for the support roles what would it take to be a decent support? Not necessarily healer. 

 

 

I have about 90 hours in the game so I'm still new. I haven't gotten into Fractals but I'd like to. 

 

My main character has been a Chronomancer. And I love the elite spec. It's been my favorite specialization to play from what I've tried...

 

But I honestly think that the hoops to jump through to achieve exceptional DPS will turn me off from continuing down the route of Chrono as a pure DPS... I'd prefer to go to another spec then practice hours to optimize the spamming and resetting of Phantasms.

 

Is the Chronomancer actually capable of functioning as a support class for group content? I see so many people saying that they aren't good support anymore because they don't provide what's needed.

 

I love the class but I just want to be able to use the Shield skills, Wells, and even Continuum Shift to be able to benefit the group well. But the DPS specs for Chrono never use the Shield and rarely seem to make use of the Wells, instead focusing on the Phantasms... To me it's ceasing to be a Chronomancer and just becoming a Core Mesmer that can get an additional cooldown reset button.

 

Similarly I came from ESO where I didn't like the hoops you had to jump through to optimize DPS... So instead I was able to spec into tanking and enjoy the Dungeon content. I'd love to be able to do something similar in GW2 even though I understand tanking really doesn't exist in this game.

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1 hour ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

Is the Chronomancer actually capable of functioning as a support class for group content? I see so many people saying that they aren't good support anymore because they don't provide what's needed.

Yes, sure there are other specs that are better for some things then chrono but when pugging for fractals/raids/strikes nobody cares as long as you provide alac or quickness.

A chrono using seize the moment (quickness on shatter) with some defensive utilities like well of precognition or mantra of concentration and of course shield for even more quickness might mean you aren't top of the DPS chart but you take some responsibility of the healer with the defensive boons (stab and aegis). Staying alive is still the best DPS increase in the game.

As a side note, when people say chrono isn't a good support they just mean it isn't best in slot. But having something that does 80% of the best in slot class is still more then capable. Plus player skill is also a factor, a good chrono support will outperform a crappy  firebrand even though firebrand is considered better.

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4 minutes ago, Ellon.4316 said:

Yes, sure there are other specs that are better for some things then chrono but when pugging for fractals/raids/strikes nobody cares as long as you provide alac or quickness.

A chrono using seize the moment (quickness on shatter) with some defensive utilities like well of precognition or mantra of concentration and of course shield for even more quickness might mean you aren't top of the DPS chart but you take some responsibility of the healer with the defensive boons (stab and aegis). Staying alive is still the best DPS increase in the game.

As a side note, when people say chrono isn't a good support they just mean it isn't best in slot. But having something that does 80% of the best in slot class is still more then capable. Plus player skill is also a factor, a good chrono support will outperform a crappy  firebrand even though firebrand is considered better.

 

Why do people always talk about the Quickness Chrono?

 

Alacrity seems so much easier to maintain while focusing on actually fighting. Just have a couple of Wells and Tides of Time and you can maintain Alacrity.

 

But Sieze the Moment only gives 1s per clone shattered. So is entirely dependent on how fast you can maintain clone generation... And shatter cooldowns.

 

Is Quickness just that much better of a boon?

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38 minutes ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

 

Why do people always talk about the Quickness Chrono?

 

Alacrity seems so much easier to maintain while focusing on actually fighting. Just have a couple of Wells and Tides of Time and you can maintain Alacrity.

 

But Sieze the Moment only gives 1s per clone shattered. So is entirely dependent on how fast you can maintain clone generation... And shatter cooldowns.

 

Is Quickness just that much better of a boon?

Your best bet is to trait Signet of Inspiration and use both Wells and Mantras to heal. You can heal raids with just Wells but Mantra of Pain spam has become a thing so that is also a good healing option. 

Mesmer does not have a truly good Heal specs which can be promoted rather it's entire kit is very situational. This leads only a few who can truly use in a support setting. 

Alacrity Mirage and Quickness Chronomancer are the closest to a well established Build, hense them being much more viable options. 

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28 minutes ago, ventress.4879 said:

 

Alacrity Mirage and Quickness Chronomancer are the closest to a well established Build, hense them being much more viable options. 

 

But why is Alacrity only viewed as a Mirage boon for the Mesmer? Why doesn't it seem acceptable for Chrono to provide the Alacrity with their Wells?

 

Chrono can maintain Alacrity while providing Aegis, CC with Gravity Well and Tides of Time, or the other wells.

 

I never seriously considered the Chrono as a healer but I like the Well of Precognition for providing Aegis.

My problem with the Mantra healing is it still requires almost 3 second cast time and still needs to burn the charges.

Edited by Roadkizzle.2157
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1 minute ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

 

But why is Alacrity only viewed as a Mirage boon for the Mesmer? Why doesn't it seem acceptable for Chrono to provide the Alacrity with their Wells?

 

Chrono can maintain Alacrity while providing Aegis, CC with Gravity Well and Tides of Time, or the other wells.

 

I never seriously considered the Chrono as a healer but I like the Well of Precognition for providing Aegis.

The simple answer is you don't have to trait Wells as a Quickness Chronomancer. You can essentially run full Zergers with Phantasm Utilities. The only requirement you need is a little boon duration similar to Alacrity Mirage. 

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1 hour ago, ventress.4879 said:

The simple answer is you don't have to trait Wells as a Quickness Chronomancer. You can essentially run full Zergers with Phantasm Utilities. The only requirement you need is a little boon duration similar to Alacrity Mirage. 

 

See to me that sounds like a downside.

 

I want to be able to use the Elite Spec skills...

 

If I didn't want to use the Chrono skills then why choose it?

 

That's my problem with the Chrono DPS build. It only uses Core Mesmer tools to spend 3 times more effort to get only 2.5% more damage than Virtuoso or Mirage.

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4 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

 

See to me that sounds like a downside.

 

I want to be able to use the Elite Spec skills...

 

If I didn't want to use the Chrono skills then why choose it?

 

That's my problem with the Chrono DPS build. It only uses Core Mesmer tools to spend 3 times more effort to get only 2.5% more damage than Virtuoso or Mirage.

True but we are already pushing out luck to have high DPS Chronomancer. It is technically a support Elite, so we are very fortunate; other classes are not so lucky. Take Druid for example, it is arguable the worse DPS Support class in the game.

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6 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

But why is Alacrity only viewed as a Mirage boon for the Mesmer? Why doesn't it seem acceptable for Chrono to provide the Alacrity with their Wells?

General speaking, the most optimal party is 3 DPS, 1 Quickness and 1 Alacrity, and one of the boon providers will be hybrid DPS, and the other is hybrid Healing. Alacrity Mirage can do good damage, so it’ll pair with a Quickness Heal. Quickness Chrono can also do ok damage, so it’ll pair with a Alacrity Heal.

However, Alacrity Chrono can’t really do good damage, nor heal, thus it’s less desired. Depending on what instance you’re playing, this can be fine.

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1 minute ago, godfat.2604 said:

General speaking, the most optimal party is 3 DPS, 1 Quickness and 1 Alacrity, and one of the boon providers will be hybrid DPS, and the other is hybrid Healing. Alacrity Mirage can do good damage, so it’ll pair with a Quickness Heal. Quickness Chrono can also do ok damage, so it’ll pair with a Alacrity Heal.

However, Alacrity Chrono can’t really do good damage, nor heal, thus it’s less desired. Depending on what instance you’re playing, this can be fine.

True, it can only really heal a fight you stack, so maybe a Strike.

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Just an opinion when it comes to alac/quick chrono. The advantage for me when playing quick-chrono instead of alacrity is that the utility skills are free to take the utility that is needed. With alac chrono you must run wells to upkeep alac.

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The real answer is that Anet has flip flopped around with what Chrono and Mirage are supposed to be able to do over the years. Also both specs have mechanics that allot them to have some gains over core. That is Chrono gets to crank out phants twice as often and can rewind time every so often while Mirage gets to dish extra dmg and effects from ambush skills and can have clones do ambush skills and they get extra bits of evade and ambush if they pick up mirrors. Those little advantages over core have caused the balance team to make a kitten-ton of nerfs on Mesmer. A few years ago they did a strange nerf/change to staff to give Mirage a support role while also nerfing Mirage's ability to use staff as a good offensive weapon in wvw/pvp. This was after they removed the 2nd clone from scepter 2 and also nerfed confusion and torment output on scepter auto-attack and 3 skill and also after they nerfed axe, sword, etc.

 

So what I am saying is Chrono isnt alac now cause they wanted to nerf Mirage in wvw/pvp by altering staff to give Mirage a support role. Its also why Mirage can even do alac at all. Previously, Chrono did either Quick or Alac or even both and could dps while doing it if the person was really hard core on the ball.

 

These days Mesmer is probably not the best pick for anything tbh. It can have good dps in certain conditions and virt is ez to play alacMir can be on the easy side but personally I feel like the other alac dps specs are more reliable due to how clones, phase retreat, and the need for the Mirage to be on stack when they perform ambush skills to be WAY less reliable than say on renegade just hitting f4 and using either mele weap, staff, or bow depending if power, condi, etc. Mirage cannot even do power alac rly.

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On 3/6/2023 at 11:59 PM, ventress.4879 said:

True but we are already pushing out luck to have high DPS Chronomancer. It is technically a support Elite, so we are very fortunate; other classes are not so lucky. Take Druid for example, it is arguable the worse DPS Support class in the game.

 

Or it could be an actual support class. The Mesmer has Virtuoso to be a pure DPS spec.

 

From what I hear before EoD and the changes to the Chrono boons it still wasn't desired as Support because it didn't provide anything other than the Quick/Alac.

 

If the Chrono could actually function as a support now that would be great so it wouldn't be required to work 3 times harder than the other Mesmer specs just to do 1000 more damage than them.

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On 3/7/2023 at 12:28 PM, Moradorin.6217 said:

The real answer is that Anet has flip flopped around with what Chrono and Mirage are supposed to be able to do over the years. Also both specs have mechanics that allot them to have some gains over core. That is Chrono gets to crank out phants twice as often and can rewind time every so often while Mirage gets to dish extra dmg and effects from ambush skills and can have clones do ambush skills and they get extra bits of evade and ambush if they pick up mirrors. Those little advantages over core have caused the balance team to make a kitten-ton of nerfs on Mesmer. A few years ago they did a strange nerf/change to staff to give Mirage a support role while also nerfing Mirage's ability to use staff as a good offensive weapon in wvw/pvp. This was after they removed the 2nd clone from scepter 2 and also nerfed confusion and torment output on scepter auto-attack and 3 skill and also after they nerfed axe, sword, etc.

 

So what I am saying is Chrono isnt alac now cause they wanted to nerf Mirage in wvw/pvp by altering staff to give Mirage a support role. Its also why Mirage can even do alac at all. Previously, Chrono did either Quick or Alac or even both and could dps while doing it if the person was really hard core on the ball.

 

These days Mesmer is probably not the best pick for anything tbh. It can have good dps in certain conditions and virt is ez to play alacMir can be on the easy side but personally I feel like the other alac dps specs are more reliable due to how clones, phase retreat, and the need for the Mirage to be on stack when they perform ambush skills to be WAY less reliable than say on renegade just hitting f4 and using either mele weap, staff, or bow depending if power, condi, etc. Mirage cannot even do power alac rly.

 

So how much would it take to restore the Chronomancer to a viable support character?

 

Would it just be by improvising some other boon application? I think it can now maintain 16 stacks of Might 100% with the long duration Shield 5 and Well of Action. Those also give Alacrity. As all mesmers the Chrono can also give out Fury 100% if you can crit enough.

 

What other boons are needed for a viable support?

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On 3/8/2023 at 5:24 PM, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

From what I hear before EoD and the changes to the Chrono boons it still wasn't desired as Support because it didn't provide anything other than the Quick/Alac.

 

Boonshare was pretty busted on Chronomancer until the end of 2016 (wow - typing that out makes me feel old).  Signet of inspiration used to transfer all your existing boons, with full stacks, to everyone around you if I remember correctly.  Pair that with Bountiful Disillusionment (spamming all your shatters gave you stability, might, vigor, regeneration, and fury) and you could basically fill the entire boon bar on the full team at any time, especially during continuum split rotations.

 

But boy was it fun.  It may have been overturned, but it was -enjoyable- to play.  You felt like you were helping your team, you had agency over where you stood, your teammates didn't have to stand in a well for 3 seconds, and you could adapt to mechanics when things went wrong.  The problem now is that while things may be more balanced, the spec simply isn't fun when going through the motions.  It feels like a lot of key-smashing, with some tight rotation windows, for... ok damage?

 

I cant believe I'm saying this but at this point I'd even look forward to a healspec on Chrono.  The problem currently isn't the DPS IMO - even if we were damage leaders I personally feel like the existing play-style is stale and clunky.

Edited by Hiemdal.4367
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Players saying Chronomancer can't heal effectively are incorrect. It does suffer a bit of healing loss (~30%) compared to Firebrand and Machinist because it doesn't have a healing weapon, as staff is only really useful for giving some boons.

 

It also has the best Aegis and Stability spam in the game next to Guardian.

 

The reality is, however, in most groups such healing levels aren't necessary. Overhealing like FB, HAM and Tempest do is only super useful if your group is really bad, and at that point you might as well just take two boon DPS and a HealScourge/Mercy Scourge.

Edited by SoftFootpaws.9134
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14 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

Players saying Chronomancer can't heal effectively are incorrect. It does suffer a bit of healing loss (~30%) compared to Firebrand and Machinist because it doesn't have a healing weapon, as staff is only really useful for giving some boons.

 

It also has the best Aegis and Stability spam in the game next to Guardian.

 

The reality is, however, in most groups such healing levels aren't necessary. Overhealing like FB, HAM and Tempest do is only super useful if your group is really bad, and at that point you might as well just take two boon DPS and a HealScourge/Mercy Scourge.

Pretty much what I see. Most of the time when I play either Quickness DPS Chronomancer or Alacrity DPS Mirage I focus on boons above all else. 

What probably the most broken is Feedback. You can stack it with the both traits to revive a group of upto 5 people back to 70% health and it's only on 32 second cooldown. 

Edited by ventress.4879
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I agree with the above statements that chrono can actually heal pretty decent. Has good access to aegis even if it is a bit random. Even got some additional might in the last patch. For reference this is the build i run at the moment if healing is needed: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAs6ZlNwWYgsG2Je6SttVA-zRRYPBhpGdcnlR1VQ6pgvDAA-e

It isn't perfect but works, can be switched to alac if need be. What this build does

  • About 1.2K single target healing (close to firebrand/heal mech)
  • Gives 15 stacks of might
  • Oozes aegis with almost every skill
  • Has a ranged group revive
  • Gives superspeed in small burst (not necessarily from the well but from temporal enchanter trait)
  • Some condi cleanse, could be better but for heavy condi fights you can slot the condi cleanse mantra
  • Thanks to traits has the most stacked skill in the game, people that like to complain about shift signet have never heard of well of eternity (13K+ 5 target heal, cleans condis, gives alac if traited, pulses aegis/resolution/swiftness randomly for 5s, 1s daze, even applies some condis).

For me the biggest drawback at the moment for heal/support chrono is the range of the boons/heals. Tides of time, timewarp and seize the moment are 360 radius, healing is 300. Rest is all 240 range, some of these are even delayed. Compare that to quickness herald which has mostly 600 radius for the boons and you can see why people don't consider chrono to be a "meta" healer.

In conclusion, in my opinion chrono can do all the things needed for a heal spec but the people saying it can't are also right that heal-chrono isn't the best option. Luckily things like boon radius is something that can easily be fixed/tweaked without redesigning chrono. Also if the boons/healing from wells becomes pulsing instead of on the final tick you end up with a pretty strong support spec.

 

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5 hours ago, Ellon.4316 said:

I agree with the above statements that chrono can actually heal pretty decent. Has good access to aegis even if it is a bit random. Even got some additional might in the last patch. For reference this is the build i run at the moment if healing is needed: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAs6ZlNwWYgsG2Je6SttVA-zRRYPBhpGdcnlR1VQ6pgvDAA-e

It isn't perfect but works, can be switched to alac if need be. What this build does

  • About 1.2K single target healing (close to firebrand/heal mech)
  • Gives 15 stacks of might
  • Oozes aegis with almost every skill
  • Has a ranged group revive
  • Gives superspeed in small burst (not necessarily from the well but from temporal enchanter trait)
  • Some condi cleanse, could be better but for heavy condi fights you can slot the condi cleanse mantra
  • Thanks to traits has the most stacked skill in the game, people that like to complain about shift signet have never heard of well of eternity (13K+ 5 target heal, cleans condis, gives alac if traited, pulses aegis/resolution/swiftness randomly for 5s, 1s daze, even applies some condis).

For me the biggest drawback at the moment for heal/support chrono is the range of the boons/heals. Tides of time, timewarp and seize the moment are 360 radius, healing is 300. Rest is all 240 range, some of these are even delayed. Compare that to quickness herald which has mostly 600 radius for the boons and you can see why people don't consider chrono to be a "meta" healer.

In conclusion, in my opinion chrono can do all the things needed for a heal spec but the people saying it can't are also right that heal-chrono isn't the best option. Luckily things like boon radius is something that can easily be fixed/tweaked without redesigning chrono. Also if the boons/healing from wells becomes pulsing instead of on the final tick you end up with a pretty strong support spec.

 

Thank you. I'll try out that build. It looks more or less like one that I was wanting to try.

 

I think it's neat benefiting having the Wells placed properly for the full duration. But the delay on the actual purpose of the skills is so detrimental. I was thinking having some small stackable boons on the pulses would be helpful. 2-3 second Regen on the Well of Eternity pulse.

 

Maybe change the Well of Action to mete out the Might over the 3 pulses. 3 Might stacks each pulse so you'll still get basically the same effect if you stay in for full time but if you can't you still get some benefit.

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On 3/8/2023 at 8:37 PM, Hiemdal.4367 said:

 

Boonshare was pretty busted on Chronomancer until the end of 2016 (wow - typing that out makes me feel old).  Signet of inspiration used to transfer all your existing boons, with full stacks, to everyone around you if I remember correctly.  Pair that with Bountiful Disillusionment (spamming all your shatters gave you stability, might, vigor, regeneration, and fury) and you could basically fill the entire boon bar on the full team at any time, especially during continuum split rotations.

 

But boy was it fun.  It may have been overturned, but it was -enjoyable- to play.  You felt like you were helping your team, you had agency over where you stood, your teammates didn't have to stand in a well for 3 seconds, and you could adapt to mechanics when things went wrong.  The problem now is that while things may be more balanced, the spec simply isn't fun when going through the motions.  It feels like a lot of key-smashing, with some tight rotation windows, for... ok damage?

 

I cant believe I'm saying this but at this point I'd even look forward to a healspec on Chrono.  The problem currently isn't the DPS IMO - even if we were damage leaders I personally feel like the existing play-style is stale and clunky.

 

That sounds crazy. The current Chrono does seem to be a pale shadow of its former self based on what you say.

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6 hours ago, Ellon.4316 said:

I agree with the above statements that chrono can actually heal pretty decent. Has good access to aegis even if it is a bit random. Even got some additional might in the last patch. For reference this is the build i run at the moment if healing is needed: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAs6ZlNwWYgsG2Je6SttVA-zRRYPBhpGdcnlR1VQ6pgvDAA-e

It isn't perfect but works, can be switched to alac if need be. What this build does

  • About 1.2K single target healing (close to firebrand/heal mech)
  • Gives 15 stacks of might
  • Oozes aegis with almost every skill
  • Has a ranged group revive
  • Gives superspeed in small burst (not necessarily from the well but from temporal enchanter trait)
  • Some condi cleanse, could be better but for heavy condi fights you can slot the condi cleanse mantra
  • Thanks to traits has the most stacked skill in the game, people that like to complain about shift signet have never heard of well of eternity (13K+ 5 target heal, cleans condis, gives alac if traited, pulses aegis/resolution/swiftness randomly for 5s, 1s daze, even applies some condis).

For me the biggest drawback at the moment for heal/support chrono is the range of the boons/heals. Tides of time, timewarp and seize the moment are 360 radius, healing is 300. Rest is all 240 range, some of these are even delayed. Compare that to quickness herald which has mostly 600 radius for the boons and you can see why people don't consider chrono to be a "meta" healer.

In conclusion, in my opinion chrono can do all the things needed for a heal spec but the people saying it can't are also right that heal-chrono isn't the best option. Luckily things like boon radius is something that can easily be fixed/tweaked without redesigning chrono. Also if the boons/healing from wells becomes pulsing instead of on the final tick you end up with a pretty strong support spec.

 

 

I've never tried using Feedback because I never knew when I would be playing against ranged enemies I thought it would be useful against.

 

I assumed it was a targeted spell because the description is "creates a dome around a foe to reflect projectiles back at them".

 

But now I'm rethinking it based on your build... Looking at it now it appears to be a ground target ability so it wouldn't need to be cast on top of a foe?

 

I assumed the ability only reflected projectiles inwardly but the trait casts Feedback around allies you are reviving... So does the skill reflect projectiles outwardly to protect the characters being revived inside the dome?

 

 

Plus:

I see you take the trait giving 120 Condition Damage and recharge reduction... How does that compare to the Chaos Armor buff?

Getting Protection grants 10 seconds of Regeneration. When you have Regen your condition damage is increased by 10% and you get +250 Concentration and Expertise.

You get Protection from Chaos Armor and the Phantasms from the Shield. So those skills also give you Condition damage, Concentration, and Expertise.

Edited by Roadkizzle.2157
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2 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

I assumed it was a targeted spell because the description is "creates a dome around a foe to reflect projectiles back at them".

But now I'm rethinking it based on your build... Looking at it now it appears to be a ground target ability so it wouldn't need to be cast on top of a foe?

I assumed the ability only reflected projectiles inwardly but the trait casts Feedback around allies you are reviving... So does the skill reflect projectiles outwardly to protect the characters being revived inside the dome?

In the olden days it would always appear over the target enemy but this was changed to be a ground targeted skill. It reflect projectiles both ways. So all enemy projectile hitting the bubble be it from inside or outside are reflected.

 

2 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

I see you take the trait giving 120 Condition Damage and recharge reduction... How does that compare to the Chaos Armor buff?

Getting Protection grants 10 seconds of Regeneration. When you have Regen your condition damage is increased by 10% and you get +250 Concentration and Expertise.

You get Protection from Chaos Armor and the Phantasms from the Shield. So those skills also give you Condition damage, Concentration, and Expertise.

I dont like that trait, the regen is on a 15 second internal cooldown so even with 100% boon duration you can't keep up regen. The condi damage and expertise are nice on a condi build but this is a full heal build. A 10% DPS increase doesn't do much when you aren't doing damage to begin with.

The best thing would be the concentration but with this build you are already sitting on 80% boon duration which is plenty.  In short having quicker access to your important skills on staff adds way more value then the buffs you get from regen.

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2 hours ago, Ellon.4316 said:

 

I dont like that trait, the regen is on a 15 second internal cooldown so even with 100% boon duration you can't keep up regen. The condi damage and expertise are nice on a condi build but this is a full heal build. A 10% DPS increase doesn't do much when you aren't doing damage to begin with.

The best thing would be the concentration but with this build you are already sitting on 80% boon duration which is plenty.  In short having quicker access to your important skills on staff adds way more value then the buffs you get from regen.

 

Ah. I didn't notice the 15 second cooldown on the trait. That's really sad.

 

I may still try it out a bit as a solo open world build. See if it helps sustain. 10 seconds of Regeneration every 15 seconds isn't horrible. But I can see it not being ideal for group support.

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7 hours ago, Roadkizzle.2157 said:

I assumed the ability only reflected projectiles inwardly but the trait casts Feedback around allies you are reviving... So does the skill reflect projectiles outwardly to protect the characters being revived inside the dome?

Yes but it's even better that what you state. The traited resurrection feedback needs be slotted for it to heal 5% of a downed players health but once you do it also applies to the utility. 

Now with temporal enchanter you can increase the duration of Glamour skills by one second so that another 5%.

Now let's push it further. If you use Continuum Split even with no clones it is possible to cast both the utility and the trait twice. So that's 4 feedbacks on top of each other at 35% each. 

You could easily revive a full raid group of properly timed.

Edited by ventress.4879
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