New to Necromancer

[Magnedeus.4713]

So as the title suggests i am completely new to the necromancer profession and i have a few questions about it and the elite professions:

 

1..I see that the necromancer heavily focuses on conditions so should i build pure conditions ? I know they also summon minions  to fight, but their damage looks pretty poor. Is there more to them?

2. About the reaper, i read that it's a pure DPS profession and pretty powerful. How does it fair today and compare to other professions?

3. Does the Scourge profession focus more on support or can it do damage as well?

4. I don't have EOD. But i'd like to hear about the Harbinger too.

 

I don't know if race really matters, but i was looking to make a Norn Necro. But if there is a better race, then I'd like to hear it.

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

1.  There's multiple builds for necromancer to use.  You can go with pure damage, pure conditions, or hybrid.  Minions do a low mount of damage, but they are low maintenance and have an additional utility attached to each one.

2.  Damage-wise, the Reaper is... moderate.  

3.  Scourge can do both support and damage.

4.  Harbinger does higher condition damage than any other spec, but it trades the defenses that Life Force gives with a stacking debuff to maximum health.  In a sense, it is a glass cannon.

[Methuselah.4376]

1. More than a condition heavy profession, it is more of a condition management profession. This means it has the ability to transfer conditions from allies to itself, transfer conditions from itself to enemies, turn conditions into boons on self and allies and conversely can turn boons into conditions on enemies. Core necro is the weakest but also the tankiest of the specs available to necromancer. Minions are great for open world due to taking aggro off you, but yeah, their damage is terrible though they can have some utility. 

2. Reaper has a lower damage ceiling than other professions, currently benching at 35k dps. In actuality, this dps is good and good (or even great) for any PvE content. The issue is that most other professions have specs that are benching 40k dps, so in comparison Reaper's dps is moderate. The advantage that Reaper has over most other professions is that it is typically easier to reach its dps ceiling due to its self-reliance plus easy rotation coupled with inherent tankiness. Furthermore, recent buffs to shouts has made it easier to clear trash mobs with a Chilled to the Bone + You Are All Weaklings combo, which can be timed for both to hit at the same time since the latter shout has no cast time. Reaper is also good at cleaving and has blind and chill as part of its highest damage toolkit (Nightfall and Well of Darkness), which for PvE works wonders at shutting down mobs of enemies that are under Champion level. Furthermore, it has access to stability and damage reduction as part of its base tool kit (Infusing Terror), projectile destruction (Death's Charge) and decent CC (Terrify + Executioner's Scythe).  In all honesty, Reaper is currently in the best position its ever been (though still in need of a few more buffs) and will serve you very well in nearly every aspect of PvE. Most people will rage with foam at the mouth because since it doesn't do 40k dps and doesn't really have group utility then they think it automatically sucks, but unless you are interested in speed clearing hard mode content, then it is perfectly fine for everything else. Are there better options? Sure but Reaper will still serve you well. 

3. Scourge does quite well at dps and can do it from range. It also comes with built-in support in the form of barriers, though these are mostly effective with investment into Healing Power. You do need to manage your shades well and be aware of what traits they trigger (ideally you would always want to have all 3 out). The support variant does not focus on healing damage but on preventing it through barriers, so where most other healers play re-actively, a support Scourge is more proactive, saving their biggest barriers for when a big package of damage is incoming. An example of this would be on Vale Guardian where a Scourge applies the barrier as the green bomb is about to go off. What Scourge really shines at is power rezzing, with its ability to pull in downed players and near instantly resurrect them. In fact support Scourge is one of the best support roles for in-experienced groups or when learning new content, as it has the ability to keep the group alive almost indefinitely through pumping barriers and power rezzing. Support Scourge's biggest weakness is the inability to provide either Alacrity or Quickness, boons that are quite vital for supports to provide in order to be "legitimized" in end game content for experienced players. 

4. Harbinger was designed to answer to the cries of the community: a glass canon. Or at least this is what it was meant to be. While it uses a similar shroud mechanic to core Necro and Reaper, this shroud does not protect its health. On the upside this means that Harbinger can be healed while shrouded whereas necro and Reaper cannot (barring life steal). Harbinger also has to deal with Blight stacks, which build up through the use of Elixirs and being in Harbinger's Shroud. Each stack of blight lowers your maximum HP by 1.5% and it caps out at 25 stacks, meaning you lose 37.5% of your health at maximum Blight. Do note that Blight heals you for 13 health per stack (with Alchemic Vigor; this healing can be further enhanced through healing power). Quite a few skills interact with Blight, where once a certain number of stacks has been reached, you spend that amount of Blight to make the skill more powerful. As can be seen, this spec was designed to counter the usual points of why a necromancer shroud spec cannot have high dps: high health and 2nd health bar. Without these things, Harbinger seemed to have been given the green light to do more dps (condi wise at least, the power variant is terrible). It is not everyone's cup of tea, and most players prefer to stick with Scourge due to Scourge being easier to play and more forgiving coupled with more group utility, whereas Harbinger needs to be in melee range for maximum effect and is the squishiest of the necromancer's specs though also the only one that has a quickness sharing build. I personally enjoy Harbinger a lot and it definitely brings a different style of play which I think can be a breath of fresh air, but to each their own. 

Overall the general theme of necromancer is this: you can do something well, but other professions will do it better. In essence it can be a jack of all trades, master of none sort of profession. Having said that, it remains my favourite profession and with the right level of skill you will certainly perform very well on it. 

Regarding race, there is no impact on your stats or build whatsoever when it comes to picking a race. It's mostly aesthetics and how the main story line beings. Though each race has its own racial skills, these are so horrible that they never make it into any build (or at least none that I have seen in my 10 years of playing GW2). The only thematic racial skill that fits a necromancer would be the Avatar of Grenth, which is a human racial skill. 

Hope this helps 🙂

Edited March 14, 2023 by Methuselah.4376

[Zex Anthon.8673]

5 hours ago, Methuselah.4376 said:

In essence it can be a jack of all trades, master of none sort of profession.

This is not true. We can look at all the roles necro is viable in each game mode.

PvE:

- Damage Dealer: Condi Harbinger is the only spec that is benching more than boon supports right now.

- Quickness support: Harbinger is the only spec that can provide team quickness.

- Alacrity support: Non-existant

- Healer: Scourge is good at carrying low skilled squads, but is a poor healer due to low healing output.

- Tank: No active defense means necro is a very poor tank.

WvW:

- Damage Dealer: Necro has solid options with both Reaper and Scourge for melee and ranged.

- Healer: Poor healer for same reason outline above. The problem is Necro core kit doesnt support any healing builds.

- Boon Support: No viable option. Stability is critical in this game mode and Necro has zero stability.

- Roamer: Necro is a poor roamer due to having low mobility and low burst damage. Large open fields means players can easily play around shroud mechanics.

PvP:

- Team Fighter: Necro is a team fighter, it has dps, boon corrupts, and aoe. But, relies heavily on support.

- Support: No viable heal options. Necro is incapable of playing hard support. Harbinger is good boon support for hybrid role.

- Bruiser: Low sustain and poor CC options makes this role difficult for necro. Fear is heavily countered by condi cleanse, stunbreaks, stability, resistance.

- Side node: Due to low sustain, no active defense, and no stability, necro struggles with 1v1 let alone 1vX. With low mobility you cant escape when you get outnumbered. Necro cannot side node.

- Roamer: Low mobility and low burst damage. You will be crawling back and forth between nodes as other classes run circles around you.

Overall necro doesnt have that many options for gameplay. Harbinger helped fill some of these gaps, but you sacrifce all forms of defense and Anet had to give it god tier level of sustain for it to be viable.

[Methuselah.4376]

Not sure how what you said is any different than what I said. Strictly speaking, necro can do several things, it just doesn't do them as well as other classes. 

[Dr Meta.3158]

2 minutes ago, Methuselah.4376 said:

Not sure how what you said is any different than what I said. Strictly speaking, necro can do several things, it just doesn't do them as well as other classes. 

That's funny.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

8 minutes ago, Methuselah.4376 said:

Not sure how what you said is any different than what I said. Strictly speaking, necro can do several things, it just doesn't do them as well as other classes. 

Your post implies necro can do everything just not as well as other classes that specialize in that role.

Ive shown that necro is incredibly limited in the types of roles it can play. You are essentially restricted into a damage dealer No matter what gamemode you play. And in PvP you literally have only one role, Team Fighter.

Edited March 14, 2023 by Zex Anthon.8673

[Methuselah.4376]

1 minute ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

Your post implies necro can do everything just not as well as other classes that specialize in that role.

Ive shown that necro is incredibly limited in the types of roles it can play. You are essentially restricted into a damage dealer No matter what gamemode you play. And in PvP you literally have only one role, Team Fighter.

Hmmm I wasn't clear. What I meant was this:

- It can remove boons, but mesmer/revenant can do it better.

- It can provide quickness, but pretty much every other quickness build can do it better while providing more.

- It can damage at melee and ranged, but pretty much every other profession can do it better.

[Zex Anthon.8673]

3 minutes ago, Methuselah.4376 said:

Hmmm I wasn't clear. What I meant was this:

- It can remove boons, but mesmer/revenant can do it better.

- It can provide quickness, but pretty much every other quickness build can do it better while providing more.

- It can damage at melee and ranged, but pretty much every other profession can do it better.

I agree with all those points aside from boon removal. I think this is really the only thing necro excels at when compared to other classes.

Things Necro cannot do:

- Tank

- Heal/Support

- Stability

- Roam

- 1v1

- 1vX

- Sidenode

[Dr Meta.3158]

2 minutes ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

I agree with all those points aside from boon removal. I think this is really the only thing necro excels at when compared to other classes.

Things Necro cannot do:

- Tank

- Heal/Support

- Stability

- Roam

- 1v1

- 1vX

- Sidenode

Actually I do agree with him about the boon removal thing. I think shattered concentration alone nearly matches your typical spite/curses boon rip setup with focus 5 and axe 3 and outperforms just adding the illusions traitline. Mesmer also has more boon rip tools to add to that if they so desire to march well of corruption and corrupt boon, both of which also adds more defensive utility and their boon rip is far easier and more consistent to land. Add in continuum split into the equation and the burst removal is incomparable. And you're also most likely dead.

So yeah necromancer is basically just a teamfighter regardless of how you build and the majority of necromancers need a support babysitter to do anything relevant in pvp.

 

[captrowdy.9561]

9 hours ago, Zex Anthon.8673 said:

This is not true. We can look at all the roles necro is viable in each game mode.

PvE:

- Damage Dealer: Condi Harbinger is the only spec that is benching more than boon supports right now.

- Quickness support: Harbinger is the only spec that can provide team quickness.

- Alacrity support: Non-existant

- Healer: Scourge is good at carrying low skilled squads, but is a poor healer due to low healing output.

- Tank: No active defense means necro is a very poor tank.

WvW:

- Damage Dealer: Necro has solid options with both Reaper and Scourge for melee and ranged.

- Healer: Poor healer for same reason outline above. The problem is Necro core kit doesnt support any healing builds.

- Boon Support: No viable option. Stability is critical in this game mode and Necro has zero stability.

- Roamer: Necro is a poor roamer due to having low mobility and low burst damage. Large open fields means players can easily play around shroud mechanics.

PvP:

- Team Fighter: Necro is a team fighter, it has dps, boon corrupts, and aoe. But, relies heavily on support.

- Support: No viable heal options. Necro is incapable of playing hard support. Harbinger is good boon support for hybrid role.

- Bruiser: Low sustain and poor CC options makes this role difficult for necro. Fear is heavily countered by condi cleanse, stunbreaks, stability, resistance.

- Side node: Due to low sustain, no active defense, and no stability, necro struggles with 1v1 let alone 1vX. With low mobility you cant escape when you get outnumbered. Necro cannot side node.

- Roamer: Low mobility and low burst damage. You will be crawling back and forth between nodes as other classes run circles around you.

Overall necro doesnt have that many options for gameplay. Harbinger helped fill some of these gaps, but you sacrifce all forms of defense and Anet had to give it god tier level of sustain for it to be viable.

Part of the fun of roaming in wvw and sidenosjng in pvp is overcoming necros weakness. It’s super satisfying plowing folks 1vx on reaper. I would say harb is one of the better roamer specs. 

[TheRealGorthaur.1796]

2. You might heard that about Reaper for open world. Its pretty strong there

[Lily.1935]

On 3/14/2023 at 12:24 AM, Magnedeus.4713 said:

So as the title suggests i am completely new to the necromancer profession and i have a few questions about it and the elite professions:

 

1..I see that the necromancer heavily focuses on conditions so should i build pure conditions ? I know they also summon minions  to fight, but their damage looks pretty poor. Is there more to them?

2. About the reaper, i read that it's a pure DPS profession and pretty powerful. How does it fair today and compare to other professions?

3. Does the Scourge profession focus more on support or can it do damage as well?

4. I don't have EOD. But i'd like to hear about the Harbinger too.

 

I don't know if race really matters, but i was looking to make a Norn Necro. But if there is a better race, then I'd like to hear it.

• Necromancer minions are not used as a cohesive build normally because of their poor damage. Minions are used primarily for utility purposes and they're better individually than together.
• Necromancer is at its best using condition builds. They've got strong DPS although not the best they can still out preform most other builds.
• Reaper Is a decent damage dealer and will work well for you in most fights. Their primary weakness is their poor range and that taking damage can seriously hurt their over all DPS. Other than that they're pretty solid. They're a bruiser with a lot of crowd control options which makes them really strong for break bar phases. If anything is to be said about Reaper is they're reliable.
• Scourge is the necromancer's best elite spec. It has as much powerful CC as the reaper does all at 900 range. It also has more aoe than the reaper and it can cleanse conditions from allies, grant barrier, give stability and its far more flexible with its utility than any other necromancer elite spec. Scourge can also be played as a hybrid DPS healer which can output moderately okay damage while also being superb at keeping lower skilled parties alive in difficult fights.
• Harbinger Is the strongest DPS the necromancer can get and its also got a decent quickness build so it can play as a DPS support hybrid spec without sacrificing too much of its damage. There's a big catch though. Harbinger can be fairly difficult to play, frail and its builds are rather repetitive. There's very little difference between their DPS build and their quickness build making harbinger the least interesting to play of the 3 elite specs IMO. Because of its frailty as well its not going to be as popular as the others.

Note that this is coming from a PvE perspective since I'm not super familiar with the PvP scene.

Necromancer shines in one aspect among all of their builds. Their CC power is really good. Reaper, Scourge and Harbinger all do a lot of damage to break bars without sacrificing much if anything for their builds. Although necromancer tends to focus on condition builds you don't need to build into that if you're going reaper. Reaper can still run a condition build and do well so if you like Dots than necromancer is a good home no matter which elite spec you want to run the most.

On the topic of Minions, Some minions are useful for a few different builds.

• Shadow Fiend is use on Scourge for its blind, chill and its life force it gives the scourge back which makes it a top pick for scourge both helping their CC and providing them with further damage through better use of their shade skills.
• Flesh Golem is the only minion used at least some of the time on all 3 elite specs. Its got a massive CC skill in charge making it the go to choice for Reaper in raids, strikes and fractals while scourge and Harbinger use it less they will still use it. Scourge will especially use it in full range fights. Superb minion, worth considering.
• Blood Fiend is only use in full or partially ranged fights. its damage is lower than Signet of vampirism so if you're going to be in melee 90% of the time its not worth taking. It does have an advantage though with its greater self healing but this one is rarely taken over signet. If you play a scourge though, its a great consideration for some fights and you shouldn't over look it.
• Flesh Wurm is typically only used for skips in things like fractals or dungeons. So it doesn't get used as often outside of PvP. Its damage is solid but that's not why we use it. There a few tricks we can do with it and other similar skills like blink. Shadow step utility can't be understated.
• Bone Fiend is bad. Its got immobilize and I've experimented with using it before, but its active skill Rigor Mortis has a whopping 50 second cool down and a rather long activation time. Although Bone fiend is one of the higher damaging minions damage isn't why we take them aside from Blood fiend. Its just not worth taking unfortunately.
• Bone Minions are the worst minions in the game. They do have utility like triggering blast finishers and their deaths granting you life force. but that's were the good stuff ends and the bad stuff begins. They're very low damage, lowest of any minion, you only get 2 of them, they're frail, its hard to determine which one is going to explode on activation and their summoning time and recharge is much too long to get use out of their sacrifice skill. This makes them bad. There isn't a reason to ever take this skill.
• Death magic isn't worth taking. You lose a lot more DPS by taking it than you gain through minions. And it actually can screw up aggro for your party making it that much worse. Don't use death magic unless you're soloing and just enjoying the meme of minions.

Ultimately, if you use minions you'll only be using one to three max and only three on scourge in a ranged fight. Normally, Flesh golem is the one used on Reaper and Shadow fiend is used on Scourge. The others typically are to be ignored and you shouldn't feel bad about not using them. They're worse than the sum of their parts but the utility they provide is something to consider when you're playing the necromancer still.