Is This HP Normal For Guardians?

[Tsakhi.8124]

Clicky! Look, I'm lazy and my brain is working at like 5%. :(

Some say it's low, others say it's normal and it kind of confuses me. I guess it has to do with my build. There's still a whole lot of stuff I still need to learn. Yay for Aegis!

[CraftyK.9062]

Guardian among Thieves and Elementalists, has the lowest base health, clocking in at 11,645 at level 80. This, however, is arguably made up for by the vast amount of Defensive Utilities compared to say Warrior.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

Doesn't matter how small your HP pool is if you have enough blocks to never take a hit in the first place.

[quaniesan.8497]

Anet trashed on Guardian's HP on early design using the reasoning that their passive and defensive utilities make up for it (if you don't use those very specific utilities, goodluck).  However, as powercreep goes on, and as other classes started to get their own equivalent through specialization and revamped skills,  this reasoning no longer hold ground while guardian base HP still remain obsolete.  Low HP can be worked around with certain builds, but for frontline bruisers, you need to work extra hard in comparison to ...say ... a scrapper to stay alive.

Edited March 16, 2023 by quaniesan.8497

[Farseer.1349]

On 3/16/2023 at 12:47 PM, quaniesan.8497 said:

Anet trashed on Guardian's HP on early design using the reasoning that their passive and defensive utilities make up for it (if you don't use those very specific utilities, goodluck).  However, as powercreep goes on, and as other classes started to get their own equivalent through specialization and revamped skills,  this reasoning no longer hold ground while guardian base HP still remain obsolete.  Low HP can be worked around with certain builds, but for frontline bruisers, you need to work extra hard in comparison to ...say ... a scrapper to stay alive.

You are absolutely RIGHT, sir!!! Scrapper has much more survivability comparing to ANY guardian. And warriors have too. And rangers. So, if you are suing fast, low damage attacks vs guardian, you'll win with ease.

Blocks no longer works. When Anet DELETED RETAL, they literally killed old guardian design. And guardian health is obsolete now. So low. And no real protection.

 

So now guardian has to have really high dps comparing to warrior. You only have 1 block that will be gone in 1 second. And war will never use the highest damage ability vs block. Others too. People aren't stupid to waste their best abilities into block.

 

Also. Just quick note on Willbender virtues.

1 Rushing Justice. Actual dash range is only 650(may be 670). Only that. It's not 800 as tooltip reads. Does this mean you land the attack with range of 200? I am not sure. In fact, it usually misses. And it's just running, so it's worse than blink.

2 Flowing Resolve. Range 450. Cooldown 14 seconds. And it's not blink, it is RUNNING. So you cannot actually use it on some stairs.

 

So i must ask the one question. How is the guardian supposed to win vs engi/war/necro with lower hp and the same damage? Same damage, less hp. So war, necro, engi, ranger just outclasses you. And some people have been keeping on saying that guardian has no issues.

I saw on arena that WB couldn't win vs bers. Not enough damage. Was has too much hp to beat it out of. Same with necro.

 

If you won vs these, you just fought someone unexp or new player. You cannot win vs old players.

Also, because of low base hp you get less from stats. Other classes have better damage multi, so they scale better. They scale better than guardian does.

Also, as guardian you don't have many choices with weapons. And, you know, GS has issues, sword has issue too. Ranged damage is low. ETC

 

Retal was the innate part of guardian class. Without it guradin will never be equal to others. Not again. Not anymore. Ah, and base healing number are bad on guardian. it's fair comparing to its base HP, but not fair comparing to final HP of other classes. War heals better.

Also guardian completely lacks control(except 1 root< which is ultra short timed).

In older times thieves, rangers and even warriors were scared to attack guardian(retal). Now nobody is scared. And guardian became the 1st prey because of low mobility and low health.

[Farseer.1349]

On 3/14/2023 at 7:11 PM, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

Doesn't matter how small your HP pool is if you have enough blocks to never take a hit in the first place.

The core issue is that people will not waste their skills into blocks. And, how many block does guardian have? 1 from virtue. 2 from shout(which is not taken often). So 4 only. People can count. When guardian has no more blocks, you can easily attack with the biggest hits. It's how it always worked in the past. And it still works.

With the same vitality guardian still lacks almost 4,5k comparing to ranger/engi and 7,5k comparing to war/necro. More than enough. But guardian doesn't have that much damage to beat the smart war/necro. In fact, smart guardian player will never fight war or necro alone. No chance to win with such handicap. At least for now. Retal helped to win, but you know: it doesn't exist anymore.

[Buran.3796]

   Context and game mode is important. For PvE, in instanced content, the low HP isn't a problem since a well played Guardian in a competent group has tools more than enough to deal with it. In WvW roaming my dragon/marauder WB has 18.8k HP, hits very hard and has plenty of mobility and cleanses but barely any cc; on the other hand my celestial FB has 19.5k HP and way less damage and mobility, but much more cc while keeping similar cleansing abilities. In PvP WB and DH are competent despite their HP, but FB is waaaay weaker, even compared to core Guardian.

   Compared to that, the kind of builds I run with Warrior sits ~22-24k HP, and with Rev ~20-22k HP. But I consider Bladesworn much harder to play than Willbender, since most of your damage is stacked in charged attacks, and if you miss or get interrupted you dps falls to nothing...