[Updated mid-April] [Proposal] Chrono Rework for Support & DPS Roles.

[Virtuality.8351]

APRIL15th EDIT: I have made some significant changes to my proposal based on everyone's feedback!

If you'd like to know the reasons behind the changes, please refer to the summary of discussion in this comment. 

===============================================

With the Feb 24. balance patch bringing back the old Mantra mechanics, Boon Support Healer has become a thing for Chronomancer. (You can see an example here by Vallun at GuildJen.)

However, I do feel there's still some problem with Chronomancer taking up the Healer role.

While the build provides a steady stream of small healing packages through clone generation with Scepter auto chain and Illusionary Inspiration, the burst healing options all suffer from a significant delay:

• Mantras takes 2.25 s (base) to channel in order to proc Restorative Mantras.
  The span can be further reduced to 1.5 s with Quickness, but such boon might not be as easy to come by when the group is in a dire situation and you are running the Alacrity variation build.
• Wells take 3 s to heal allies with All's Well That Ends Well.
  Your biggest heal package—Well of Eternity—literally feels like taking an eternity to realize itself. And when stuffs hit the fan, no one is going to stand still in your Wells for 3 seconds, rendering it completely useless and extremely frustrating for the Chronomancer player.
• Regeneration is basically non-existent.

To address these issues, I'd like to propose the following changes (in Italic) to the Well healing skill:

• Well of Eternity (Healing Skill)
  Well. Create a well that rewinds time, removing conditions from allies and heal allies overtime. When it expires, the well heals all allies in the area.
  Initial Self Heal: 3,230 (0.3)
  First pulse healing: 2,000 (2.0)
  Second pulse healing: 1,500 (1.5)
  Third pulse healing: 1,000 (1.0)
  Ending Heal: 3,870 (1.2)?
  Conditions Removed: 1
  Number of Targets: 5
  Pulses: 3
  Duration: 3 seconds
  Radius: 240
  Combo Field: Light
  Range: 900

And update the Chronomancer trait line:

• All's Well That Ends Well (Trait)
  You grant Barrier to allies around you with each pulse of Wells. The last pulse grants a greater amount of Barrier.
  Barrier per pulse: 1,000 (0.4)
  Barrier at the final pulse: 2000 (0.8)
  Healing: 1,310 (0.8)
  Number of Allied Targets: 5
  Radius: 240
  (Move the trait to the top row.)
• Improved Alacrity
  Alacrity applied to you is stronger but has a reduced duration. Your outgoing healing is increased when you have alacrity. Gain increased critical-strike damage when you have alacrity.
  Recharge Speed: 50%
  Duration Decreased: 33%
  Outgoing healing increase: 15%
  Critical Damage Increase: 10%
  (Move the trait to the top row.)
• Stretched Time
  Remove the internal cooldown to prevent interference with Continuum Split.

To further enhance Mesmer's self-sustainability and group healing, and to make up for lack of group Regeneration, we will also improve the Grandmaster trait in Inspiration line:

• Illusionary Inspiration
  Summon an illusion heals and grant Regeneration to allies around you.
  Regeneration you grant heals for more.
  Regeneration (4 s)
  Increased Regenerative Healing: 20%

Meanwhile, Improved Alacrity has been a must pick for DPS players for its Critical Damage increase. To make up for the removal of the damage bonus, the following changes are proposed.

• Delayed Reactions
  Shattering a clone slows foes around you. Foes with no boon are slowed further.
  Disabling a foe slows them.
  Disables include stun, daze, knockback, pull, knockdown, sink, float, launch, taunt, and fear.
  This trait can only affect the same enemy with once per interval.
  Slow (2s): Skills and actions are slower.
  Slow without boon (3 s): Skills and actions are slower.
  Number of target: 5
  Radius: 240
  (The changes above only applies in PvE; mechanics remain unchanged in PvP/WvW to reward successful CC)
  (Move the trait to the bottom row.)
• Danger Time
  Gain additional critical-hit chance against slowed enemies. This bonus also applies to your illusions.
  Slow: Skills and actions are slower.
  Critical Chance Increase: 15%
  (Move the trait to the bottom row.)

The change proposed above will allow Chronomancer to maintain Slow on their target(s), and make Danger Time an actually practical pick for DPS builds.

It will also significantly reduce the difficulty for Chronomancer to Crit-Cap, and to alleviate the extreme need for Precision gears, as shown in the suggested setup by Snow Crows. You will able to reach 100% critical chance with just a full set of Assassin's weapons and armor, allowing you to run Power based Runes, such as Scholar, as shown in this build.

We will then have a very well organized and synergized trait line, with...

• Top row: Healing and Alacrity.
• Middle row: Shattering and Quickness.
• Bottom row: Slow and DPS.

And that's it! Let me know what do you think about this proposal.

Also, if you like this proposal and want to see it implemented, why not help share this post on Reddit to make more people see it? Maybe we'll even get the developers' attention!

Edited April 27, 2023 by Virtuality.8351

[Infusion.7149]

All's Well that Ends Well needs to be completely revamped. There are a limited number of scenarios a 3s delayed heal is usable, especially in the same spot. If instead it provided delayed barrier when the allied target is full health it would be different story. A barrier also makes more thematic sense (see Feedback). Splitting the heal to instant and adding barrier on the end (to keep the name) would be more fitting. A barrier and heal would be inline with Saint's Shield on vindicator. However, outright adding barrier would mean a 3s delay is not a huge issue in most scenarios a well is used off cooldown. This would also mean Well of Eternity could be changed in some fashion (maybe share the initial heal if traited) to be on par with Mantra of Recovery.

I don't think Improved Alacrity needs to be changed to have healing power. Inspiration Magic is essentially the main driver of healing power on mesmer.

If you read the wiki notes, Stretched Time is stated to not have a recharge. The listed recharge is a vestige of older iterations. In-game it has no recharge listed.

I don't think applying slow on hit (Delayed reactions), even in PvE is an appropriate balance change. You would fundamentally split the functionality between modes. In reality you would not run this in PvE as a DPS even with permanent slow since you trade off 10% shatter damage. It also would not help your goal of heal chrono, I would rather see Time Sink have a longer base duration of slow, instantly recharge on CC when traited, or something akin to that at least in PvE. Else, just have it apply slow on well use since wells are very rarely used in PVP/WVW modes to their fullest potential (Gravity Well being an exception).
-- slow sources are Echo of Memory , Time Sink , Well of Action (underwhelming)
-- Delayed Reactions adds Gravity Well, Tides of Time, Temporal Curtain to the sources on Vallun's build

Danger Time needs to also be against chilled enemies (or defiant) at least in PvE. Slow uptime is not realistic and with the removal of the crit damage increase in prior iterations (a suggestion I had back in the day to reduce chrono stack) it remains situational. Arenanet already added chill to Time Warp (a time related skill) so I think this would be a worthwhile change.

I'd also be looking into Illusionary Inspiration, an addition of regeneration output when a phantasm is created would go a long way.

Moreover, unless Arenanet considers heal chrono to be a possible decision I would think that you need to consider the pairings:
1. CQB , quick scrapper, quick warrior (berserker/bladesworn), quick harbinger, quick catalyst, or quick herald with Heal alac chrono 
--- in this case healbrand + chrono alac or mirage alac would be a better choice than heal alac chrono most likely
--- even warrior probably heals more consistently since banner of defense, call of valor give large barriers and utility shouts when traited heal for a large amount instantly on 25s ammo cooldown
--- the most likely pairing forced would be quick harbinger
2. Heal StM quick chrono with alac mech, alac ren, alac untamed or druid, alac tempest, alac specter, alac willbender (lol) , alac mirage
--- the alac mech could be HAM instead, alac ren can heal if warranted, alac tempest could heal somewhat, and alac druid is more consistently seen than untamed ; I have seen people meme on heal alac willbender and given the existence of mace and shield plus bow of truth it probably is better than heal StM chrono

 

Edited March 25, 2023 by Infusion.7149

[Salt Mode.3780]

Truth be told they should make Chrono more effective with Alacrity and Quickness considering it is a time mage and was the one that introduced alacrity to begin with and I don't mean simply pumping out the boon. Back when alacrity was unique to Chrono it felt impactful, nowadays it's just a novelty as other classes can pump out alacrity/quickness better. I'm not saying it should go back to Chrono monopolizing the boon I'm just saying make it feel more impactful than what it's currently offering. 

[Xaylin.1860]

On 3/25/2023 at 8:37 AM, Virtuality.8351 said:

• Top row: Healing and Alacrity.
• Middle row: Shattering and Quickness.
• Bottom row: Slow and DPS.

I'm all for this set up but not necessarily agree with all of your suggestion - although they are not bad per se. But there are bigger issues you don't really address.

First, the biggest issue with support Mesmer I see is with Inspiration, not Chrono. Inspiration is overloaded with Utility centered traits with a weird combination of traits that are either niche at best or completely useless. Additionally, trait placement is a mess (similar effects competing with each other directly or synergies not being realized). Still, you will have to go Inspiration for support considering the next best pick - Chaos for Boons - actually offers very few supportive options aside from raw stats. I feel that ANet should work on this first but it might be too much to ask.

Second, as already mentioned, Wells and the trait are just bad in too many situations due to the delayed effect. This COULD be mitigated if the final effect was also (or only) triggered around the Mesmer but this might lead to Scourge-like balancing issues. In the end, ditching the "delayed effect theme" for Chrono Wells in general would be more reasonable.

Third, two GMs centered around 1 OH weapon... I just can't. Almost as bad as the creation of Alacrity Mirage. 

 

When talking about Chrono traits more specifically, I think it is important to point out that Chronophantasma actually is the most powerful pick for healing when combined with Inspiration. Personally, I don't mind this. But it makes the roles of the trait rows a bit more blurred unless you made Chronophantasma the dedicated healing and Alacrity trait. For Improved Alacrity, I'd rather see a small heal or Regen on Alacrity application than healing power. HP is a bad stat overall and Inspiration already covers it quite well. The next best pick would be outgoing healing but I think small heals would be more interesting to play around. Especially since Mesmer/Chrono doesn't really have great burst heals which is where outgoing healing shines most.

[Infusion.7149]

Xaylin, there is a limited number of ways that Arenanet can apply alacrity on chronomancer. They chose wells which means inherently it is going to be worse than StM chrono in terms of boon application. The Tides of Time part is not a gamechanger, it could have been on Time Sink (Diversion) or something innate to chrono and it would have made little difference. Certainly it is easier per say (since there is no clone management) but it is far worse for your utility choices. You end up having to use Gravity Well and Well of Eternity at the least. With the revert to mantras , Mantra of Concentration for stability cuts into time spent casting unless it is already prepared.

Most alacrity builds these days are set up for some sort of healing, whether it is alac mech, alac tempest, alac druid, alac specter, etc. Alac ren can be run as a healer if warranted and even if you do not, soulcleave provides a bit of healing if it comes down to it along with breakrazor's bastion. I've seen a heal willbender alac as well but willbender generally isn't run as alac. So the well alac chronomancer would need to do some sort of healing as a replacement for alac mirage which generally isn't run as a healer (save for MrMystic mirage heal meme before the mantra reverts).

I don't think adding barrier to the chrono wells would result in scourge-like balancing issues because All's Well that Ends Well lowers your DPS by 10% on phantasms already and Arenanet could lower the base heal/barrier on wells if it is an issue while increasing the scaling. Not to mention chrono is not as easy as scourge nor fully ranged, while the DPS tanks severely if you run multiple wells (signet heal gives phantasm recharge). In your hypothetical Chronophantasma healing, it is going to be worse than virtuoso healing , which has been shown to do 20K+ DPS running inspiration while not being required to be in melee. Neither are going to be strong picks compared to say a condi specter with ritualist gear (~93% full DPS , so ~35K) or something akin to a scourge in plaguedoctor (which last I checked was 27K+) , cele renegade (last I checked 28K+ when healing is not required), cele quickness heal firebrand (which I last saw at least 20k+), alac untamed if the water spirit is used often (35K), or even an alac tempest (~27k) if incoming CC is not a problem. The moment you do not provide quickness or alacrity you need to reevaluate why you are running healing at all as those two boon supports typically are the healers due to role compression and the way stats work on gear.

[Xaylin.1860]

16 hours ago, Infusion.7149 said:

Xaylin, there is a limited number of ways that Arenanet can apply alacrity on chronomancer. They chose wells which means inherently it is going to be worse than StM chrono in terms of boon application. The Tides of Time part is not a gamechanger, it could have been on Time Sink (Diversion) or something innate to chrono and it would have made little difference.

I am aware of that. I only pointed out that Wells won't be able to compete with other trait combinations when it comes for healing. I didn't say Chrono should have more than 1 Alacrity trait. 😉

 

Having Alacrity or Quickness on Shield isn't a game changer, sure. But it heavily limits weapon choice for Chronomancer because Shield basically becomes a must have unless you play Chronophantasma. And as you said yourself, in case of Alacrity you are stuck with Wells already.

[Salt Mode.3780]

Truth be told in order to fix something like this to make Chronomancer actually feel impactful, they need to massively reduce the uptime of other classes pumping out alacrity/quickness and allow Chronomancer to fill in the gaps for both. Chrono by logic should be able to pump out quickness and alacrity at the same time. What I mean by this is when other classes have downtime on their alacrity/quickness uptime, Chrono should be able to fill in the slot by providing both boons to bridge the downtime. In the beginning, having concentration as a stat was wrong to begin with, and these classes being able to pump out faster than the duration with concentration makes it pointless for Chronomancers to even bother with either boons. 

It's quite comical that a class that is made with the concept of time has to choose between alacrity or quickness, to top it off being locked on a shield as a weapon. 

[Infusion.7149]

6 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Truth be told in order to fix something like this to make Chronomancer actually feel impactful, they need to massively reduce the uptime of other classes pumping out alacrity/quickness and allow Chronomancer to fill in the gaps for both. Chrono by logic should be able to pump out quickness and alacrity at the same time. What I mean by this is when other classes have downtime on their alacrity/quickness uptime, Chrono should be able to fill in the slot by providing both boons to bridge the downtime. In the beginning, having concentration as a stat was wrong to begin with, and these classes being able to pump out faster than the duration with concentration makes it pointless for Chronomancers to even bother with either boons. 

It's quite comical that a class that is made with the concept of time has to choose between alacrity or quickness, to top it off being locked on a shield as a weapon. 

Arenanet already stated they do not want party alac/quickness on the same build. Even specter was not exempt.

[Gesbo.6420]

On 3/26/2023 at 10:19 AM, Salt Mode.3780 said:

Truth be told they should make Chrono more effective with Alacrity and Quickness considering it is a time mage and was the one that introduced alacrity to begin with and I don't mean simply pumping out the boon. Back when alacrity was unique to Chrono it felt impactful, nowadays it's just a novelty as other classes can pump out alacrity/quickness better. I'm not saying it should go back to Chrono monopolizing the boon I'm just saying make it feel more impactful than what it's currently offering. 

I believe that chronomancer as the og alacrity mage needs to be the best at providing the boon rather than using 4 out of your utility slots for barely being able to compete providing it... this way it would feel like you are still the time mage that you are supposed to be. Quickness can have the same concept behind it. They've done a pretty good job at separating the way chrono provides it imho. 

 

On 3/25/2023 at 7:37 AM, Virtuality.8351 said:

• Top row: Healing and Alacrity.
• Middle row: Shattering and Quickness.
• Bottom row: Slow and DPS.

I di love this idea a lot, the slow traits really need a bit of love too for the theme to be kept. Maybe the crit damage and ceit chance can be added to Danger Time so it can have some sort of space compared to the other 2 traits in the same position. 

[Markus.6415]

18 hours ago, Gesbo.6420 said:

I believe that chronomancer as the og alacrity mage needs to be the best at providing the boon rather than using 4 out of your utility slots for barely being able to compete providing it... this way it would feel like you are still the time mage that you are supposed to be. Quickness can have the same concept behind it. They've done a pretty good job at separating the way chrono provides it imho. 

 

I di love this idea a lot, the slow traits really need a bit of love too for the theme to be kept. Maybe the crit damage and ceit chance can be added to Danger Time so it can have some sort of space compared to the other 2 traits in the same position. 

I wonder where everyones struggling with alac uptime? I use greatsword + sword/shield, 2 utility wells and the elite well on my power-alac-chrono, with 0 concentration on gear and no boon duration sigil and have no problem keeping that up. While a druid needs 3 spirits with a lot concentration actually. And i just love using the wells because they have the greatest sound and visual design.

[Virtuality.8351]

On 3/26/2023 at 1:47 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

Splitting the heal to instant and adding barrier on the end (to keep the name) would be more fitting. A barrier and heal would be inline with Saint's Shield on vindicator.

On 3/26/2023 at 10:33 PM, Xaylin.1860 said:

This COULD be mitigated if the final effect was also (or only) triggered around the Mesmer

Mate I actually like the Barrier idea a lot!

Together with Xaylin's suggestion, here's is my new proposal:

• All's Well That Ends Well (Trait)
  You grant Barrier to allies around you when Wells end.
  Barrier: 3,000 (0.8)
  Healing: 1,310 (0.8)
  Number of Allied Targets: 5
  Radius: 240
  (Move the trait to the top row.)

And to improve the Well healing skill:

• Well of Eternity (Healing Skill)
  Well. Create a well that rewinds time, removing conditions from allies and heal allies overtime. When it expires, the well heals all allies in the area.
  Initial Self Heal: 3,230 (0.3)
  First pulse healing: 2,000 (2.0)
  Second pulse healing: 1,500 (1.5)
  Third pulse healing: 1,000 (1.0)
  Conditions Removed: 1
  Number of Targets: 5
  Pulses: 3
  Duration: 3 seconds
  Radius: 240
  Combo Field: Light
  Range: 900

On 3/26/2023 at 1:47 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

I don't think Improved Alacrity needs to be changed to have healing power. Inspiration Magic is essentially the main driver of healing power on mesmer.

...

I'd also be looking into Illusionary Inspiration, an addition of regeneration output when a phantasm is created would go a long way.

On 3/26/2023 at 10:33 PM, Xaylin.1860 said:

For Improved Alacrity, I'd rather see a small heal or Regen on Alacrity application than healing power. HP is a bad stat overall and Inspiration already covers it quite well. 

Personally, my position is closer to Infusion here, so that a Mesmer player has the option to sustain a bit better in Open World PvE with this trait while equipped for DPS, regardless of Elite Specialization:

• Illusionary Inspiration
  Summon an illusion heals and grant Regeneration to allies around you.
  Regeneration you grant heals for more.
  Regeneration (4 s)
  Increased Regenerative Healing: 20%

Meanwhile, we'll let Improved Alacrity provide better outgoing healing.

• Improved Alacrity
  Alacrity applied to you is stronger but has a reduced duration. Your outgoing healing is increased when you have alacrity. Gain increased critical-strike damage when you have alacrity.
  Recharge Speed: 50%
  Duration Decreased: 33%
  Outgoing healing increase: 15%
  Critical Damage Increase: 10%
  (Move the trait to the top row.)

On 3/28/2023 at 3:00 AM, Gesbo.6420 said:

I di love this idea a lot, the slow traits really need a bit of love too for the theme to be kept. Maybe the crit damage and ceit chance can be added to Danger Time so it can have some sort of space compared to the other 2 traits in the same position. 

Glad you like it! Although I do feel that it would be a bit overpowered to further add critical damage to Danger Time, as 15% critical damage is already 315 attribute point equivalent, provided the bonus could be maintained throughout engagement.

This is also the reason I do not agree with part of Infusion's assessment:

On 3/26/2023 at 1:47 AM, Infusion.7149 said:

I don't think applying slow on hit (Delayed reactions), even in PvE is an appropriate balance change. You would fundamentally split the functionality between modes. In reality you would not run this in PvE as a DPS even with permanent slow since you trade off 10% shatter damage. It also would not help your goal of heal chrono, I would rather see Time Sink have a longer base duration of slow, instantly recharge on CC when traited, or something akin to that at least in PvE. Else, just have it apply slow on well use since wells are very rarely used in PVP/WVW modes to their fullest potential (Gravity Well being an exception).
-- slow sources are Echo of Memory , Time Sink , Well of Action (underwhelming)
-- Delayed Reactions adds Gravity Well, Tides of Time, Temporal Curtain to the sources on Vallun's build

Danger Time needs to also be against chilled enemies (or defiant) at least in PvE. Slow uptime is not realistic and with the removal of the crit damage increase in prior iterations (a suggestion I had back in the day to reduce chrono stack) it remains situational. Arenanet already added chill to Time Warp (a time related skill) so I think this would be a worthwhile change.

First of all, yes, you would have to trade 10% Shattering damage, but you also get to reallocate 315 points from Precision to Ferocity, which translates to 21% Critical Damage. That is a quite sizable bonus.

Regarding different ways to inflict Slow, I think Shatter skill, as you recommended, does make much more sense. Here I have changed my proposal.

• Delayed Reactions
  Shattering a clone slows foes around you. Foes with no boon are slowed further.
  Disabling a foe slows them.
  Disables include stun, daze, knockback, pull, knockdown, sink, float, launch, taunt, and fear.
  This trait can only affect the same enemy with once per interval.
  Slow (2s): Skills and actions are slower.
  Slow without boon (3 s): Skills and actions are slower.
  Radius: 240
  (The changes above only applies in PvE; mechanics remain unchanged in PvP/WvW to reward successful CC)
  (Move the trait to the bottom row.)

This alone should make Chronomancer self-sufficient in maintaining permanent Slow on their target.

-

All changes above have been updated to the original post.

Again, I appreciate all your feedbacks! If you like these changes, or feel like something could've been done better, don't hesitate to write back.

 

Edited April 15, 2023 by Virtuality.8351

[Virtuality.8351]

Nothing really significant for Chronomancer in the May 2 balance patch preview note...fingers crossed for the June 27 one.

[Gesbo.6420]

23 hours ago, Virtuality.8351 said:

Nothing really significant for Chronomancer in the May 2 balance patch preview note...fingers crossed for the June 27 one.

I won't be holding my breath at this rate....

[Xaylin.1860]

I like your new suggestions. Although I'd prefer pulsing Barrier with a bigger chunk at the end. Barrier could actually be an interesting addition to the top row of Inspiration.

 

On 4/15/2023 at 10:03 AM, Virtuality.8351 said:

Illusionary Inspiration
Summon an illusion heals and grant Regeneration to allies around you.
Regeneration you grant heals for more.
Regeneration (4 s)
Increased Regenerative Healing: 20%

Fun fact, in case you don't know: It did give Regeneration in the past. Only via Phantasms, though. Was lovely in combination with Chaos.

[Apheleion.8572]

I would love to have regeneration on Chrono, change up the support runes like running dwayna runes.

[Virtuality.8351]

On 4/25/2023 at 3:53 PM, Xaylin.1860 said:

Although I'd prefer pulsing Barrier with a bigger chunk at the end. Barrier could actually be an interesting addition to the top row of Inspiration.

Great suggestion! I've updated my proposal as below:

 

• All's Well That Ends Well (Trait)
  You grant Barrier to allies around you with each pulse of Wells. The last pulse grants a greater amount of Barrier.
  Barrier per pulse: 1,000 (0.4)
  Barrier at the final pulse: 2000 (0.8)
  Healing: 1,310 (0.8)
  Number of Allied Targets: 5
  Radius: 240
  (Move the trait to the top row.)