Mirage Shatters

[Batalix.2873]

So in reading the May 1 roadmap, I was particularly interested in the idea of streamlining core professions and espec identities. There are several classes that feel like they don't shake up their core profession formula enough to feel sufficiently different, and I would welcome the devs going over especs and really honing in mechanically on what can make them unique. Presently, I am thinking about how Mirage shatter feels like an impotent version of Chrono or Virt.

 

Mirage shatters feel somewhat antithetical to the class. Between the three Mesmer especs, Mirage is the one that depends most clone uptime, and yet the shatters are an all-or-nothing reset of that exact feature, forcing at best an unnatural cost-benefit balancing against Mesmer's core gameplay loop and a lot of forced rebuilding.

 

I would further argue that full clone shatters are against the flavor of a Mesmer spec that is all about illusions and misdirection. Mirages always want to have clones around to hide among--Axes of Symmetry and Illusionary Ambush emphasize this. As a matter of job fantasy, and as reflected in its core skills, Mirage doesn't want to destroy all of its clones.

 

Contrast this with Chronomancer, which very much feels like it shatters the surrounding spacetime manifold with it's "shatter plus things" shatters.

 

My proposal is simple: let Mirage shatter only one clone at random at a time, for approximately a third of the effectiveness (likely less). In this way, the Mirage will have much more granularity with how many clones they can keep active for purposes of ambush, alacrity, and position-swapping.

 

If we want to be really daring, I would make at least one shatter also swap your place with the clone. The tradeoff for both of these changes is more randomness, which I think also suits Mirage better than any other espec. You may not have total control over which clones are shattered or which you might switch places with but good play will generally keep things within the player's skill to manage.

 

Anyway, that is my proposal. Tl;Dr; Mirage shatters should only shatter one clone at random.

Edited May 10, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[HotDelirium.7984]

They could just make it a self-shatter with a slightly good effect.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

The interaction between mirage and shatters is what makes it an engaging playstyle. Shatters give you vigor so you use them to dodge more. It's working as intended and creates a cool synergy in the spec. It's not like mirage actually has a hard time generation clones to begin with. 

If you want to just sit there and let AI do most of the work while you are putting in minimal effort, mechanist is calling your name. 

Also, shatters are a huge part in every mirage PvP spec. 

[Blood Red Arachnid.2493]

I'd rather keep full powered shatters.  Mirage already has ample clone generation, so there's little need to reduce shatters just to maintain clones.  

[Salt Mode.3780]

I don't see why all the Mesmer spec has to be played the same way. Mirage shatters are fine, Mirage itself is more of a passive playstyle with ambush mechanic. Chronomancer, Virtuoso, Core Mesmer are all active shatterers, Mirage only needs to shatter to spike damage rather than being its core damage.

[Batalix.2873]

12 hours ago, Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:

I'd rather keep full powered shatters.  Mirage already has ample clone generation, so there's little need to reduce shatters just to maintain clones.  

 

It's not about maintaining clones so much as giving Mirage more of a distinct identity separate from core Mesmer by using shatters differently.

 

9 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I don't see why all the Mesmer spec has to be played the same way. Mirage shatters are fine, Mirage itself is more of a passive playstyle with ambush mechanic. Chronomancer, Virtuoso, Core Mesmer are all active shatterers, Mirage only needs to shatter to spike damage rather than being its core damage.

 

Maybe Mirage shouldn't be so passive though. It's the only Mesmer espec with a melee, offensive playstyle. And the whole job fantasy is kind of diluted by standing on the sidelines, especially playing staff which is imo one of the laziest builds in the entire game (thanks, Solar).

 

Not to mention Mirage using the core profession mechanic to spike damage is, as I said, a sabotage to its own ambush mechanic. Nothing about Mirage communicates that it *wants* to be spiky, and shatters force it into a weird build-and-spend playstyle that hard resets after most enemy kills.

 

I am not looking at this proposition as a matter of "damage". I am looking at is as synergizing better with what Mirage wants to do, and giving it more incremental control over its ambush options--as well as ideally giving it some additional mobility and tactical options if a clone-swap were implemented to single shatters. Not everything in this game is about damage, many things come down to play feel and job fantasy.  And unlike Chrono and Virtuoso, Mirage's shatters are just core Mesmer and don't feel like they have been meaningfully changed to reflect what Mirage actually is.

Edited May 8, 2023 by Batalix.2873

[Salt Mode.3780]

19 minutes ago, Batalix.2873 said:

 

It's not about maintaining clones so much as giving Mirage more of a distinct identity separate from core Mesmer by using shatters differently.

 

 

Maybe Mirage shouldn't be so passive though. It's the only Mesmer espec with a melee, offensive playstyle. And the whole job fantasy is kind of diluted by standing on the sidelines, especially playing staff which is imo one of the laziest builds in the entire game (thanks, Solar).

 

Not to mention Mirage using the core profession mechanic to spike damage is, as I said, a sabotage to its own ambush mechanic. Nothing about Mirage communicates that it *wants* to be spiky, and shatters force it into a weird build-and-spend playstyle that hard resets after most enemy kills.

 

I am not looking at this proposition as a matter of "damage". I am looking at is as synergizing better with what Mirage wants to do, and giving it more incremental control over its ambush options--as well as ideally giving it some additional mobility and tactical options if a clone-swap were implemented to single shatters. Not everything in this game is about damage, many things come down to play feel and job fantasy.  And unlike Chrono and Virtuoso, Mirage's shatters are just core Mesmer and don't feel like they have been meaningfully changed to reflect what Mirage actually is.

I don't know what you are trying to say by its the only espec with a melee, offensive playstyle when chrono is there. As far as shattering goes you still shatter at opportune time esp when you know you can get 3 clones up right away with staff iwarlock that generates 2 and phase retreat that generates 1.

As far as competitive plays goes this is even more so picking the right time to shatter. Not all the specs need to play the same however Mirage still retains its identity as a Mesmer whereas Virtuoso does not. 

Edited May 8, 2023 by Salt Mode.3780

[Batalix.2873]

2 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I don't know what you are trying to say by its the only espec with a melee, offensive playstyle when chrono is there. As far as shattering goes you still shatter at opportune time esp when you know you can get 3 clones up right away with staff iwarlock that generates 2 and phase retreat that generates 1.

As far as competitive plays goes this is even more so picking the right time to shatter. Not all the specs need to play the same however Mirage still retains its identity as a Mesmer whereas Virtuoso does not. 

 

Chrono was initially designed as a tank with support wells and a defensive, ranged offhand weapon. Just because various rebalances contorted it around a DPS-obsessed meta that deprioritizes its signature weapon does not mean it is, by design, more of a melee class than Mirage. And even if it were "melee", it is still by design more support and defensive oriented than Mirage which is for the most part pure DPS outside of alac staff.

 

Especs are basically jobs in their own right. The argument that they need to feel like Core has a natural conclusion lending to three especs playing and feeling too much the same, as well as Core feeling underpowered by comparison. Treating them as mere "flavors" of a profession instead of a class in their own right is ultimately a detriment to variety and unique playstyles. Plus, most especs already do shake up their core mechanic more than Mirage does, I would argue the only ones (outside of Rev) that come close are Reaper and maybe Daredevil. Mirage changes nothing about the core mechanic.

[WhoWantsAHug.3186]

14 hours ago, Salt Mode.3780 said:

I don't see why all the Mesmer spec has to be played the same way. Mirage shatters are fine, Mirage itself is more of a passive playstyle with ambush mechanic. Chronomancer, Virtuoso, Core Mesmer are all active shatterers, Mirage only needs to shatter to spike damage rather than being its core damage.

Mesmers entire identity is using shatters. They are the classes F skills after all. You know any other class that doesn't use their F skills, besides maybe ranger that can put them on auto use?

Yo I'm a guardian, but I don't want to use my virtues cause that's my playstyle. 

[apharma.3741]

16 hours ago, WhoWantsAHug.3186 said:

Mesmers entire identity is using shatters. They are the classes F skills after all. You know any other class that doesn't use their F skills, besides maybe ranger that can put them on auto use?

Yo I'm a guardian, but I don't want to use my virtues cause that's my playstyle. 

He's still right though.
Mirage was designed around ambush skills and getting lost in the clones, hence why it introduced the mechanic of drop target which was later expanded to mirror images because it sucked as a skill. You shatter when you want to spike (mind wrack or cry of frustration depending on build), to interrupt or to distort. It even has a GM trait around keeping clones up to get them to use ambushes and was shown off on this.
Personally I'd rather they move nomads endurance from vigor on shatter to vigor on illusion summon. Would work with all mirage playstyles, might need to be reduced to 1.5-2s of vigor though.

Additionally to the guy saying it's a melee spec, I'm not sure where that's coming from. The only melee (mainhand) weapons mesmer has are sword and axe, and even then the ambush on axe has some range on it. Even including offhand weapons we have a mix of melee and range but with a slight preference for range. I wouldn't call it melee any more than I'd call ranger melee.