Are elite specializations making Guild Wars 2 unattractive for new players ?

[Ayrilana.1396]

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Morwath.9817 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:How are new players turned away from buying the game because of “power creep” when they’d likely be joining by buying the newest expansion and have access to those elite specs? “Power creep” only impacts existing players who choose not to support the game by purchasing expansions.

Many games flat out give a power boost with expansions (i.e. increase level cap) which is fairly common in MMO’s. What’s being complained about isn’t something outside the norm of an MMO player and not really a subject a player new to MMO’s would have an opinion on.

Ooo, Quaggan disagrees.Quaggan pre-ordered all expansions and power creep still rolled over Quaggan.

But you’re not a new player.

@Ara.4569 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:

@Morwath.9817 said:

@Ayrilana.1396 said:How are new players turned away from buying the game because of “power creep” when they’d likely be joining by buying the newest expansion and have access to those elite specs? “Power creep” only impacts existing players who choose not to support the game by purchasing expansions.

Many games flat out give a power boost with expansions (i.e. increase level cap) which is fairly common in MMO’s. What’s being complained about isn’t something outside the norm of an MMO player and not really a subject a player new to MMO’s would have an opinion on.

Ooo, Quaggan disagrees.Quaggan pre-ordered all expansions and power creep still rolled over Quaggan.

But you’re not a new player.

Existing players, who purchase all of the expansions, make the conscious choice not to go with whatever is perceived to be more powerful. That’s inherently no different in any MMO.You don't get what power creep is. You can have expansions that increase max level, give you more damage, more health, more armor and add 0 power creep because your environment scale with you.

Power creep is when you can apply more conditions and at the same time clean more, deal more damage but have more avoidance, have a skill apply 5 boons and another corrupt 3, be able to attack AND dodge at the same time.... Then you add pulsing stability and pulsing CCs, then you get pulsing resistance and pulsing corruption, more blocks and more skills that are unblockable, etc...

GW2 combines all that AND MORE. It's a game that transcend/sublime power creep. Give them 5 more years and you will end up with specs hitting for 100k, other specs having 95% invuln uptime, conditions that pierce resistance, protections that reflect unblockable skills, etc... PvP is a meme. Balance team turned a wonderful combat system into a giant kitten. Stay away from that radioactive cesspool.

I have no less idea about power creep than you apparently do. You make assumptions that the environments scale with the player which is not always true. Using a level cap was just one example that I felt was easy enough to explain that power creep is a norm within MMO’s.

Yes, what you listed in your second paragraph is indeed power creep. It’s an example you have centered around this game but in no way invalidates what I had said.

As far as that last paragraph, it comes off as an exaggeration that seems to serve no purpose other than to cause fear.

[witcher.3197]

@Vayne.8563 said:Considering only 10% of the playerbase SPvP's, I'm okay with some of those people not liking the game and not continuing.

Try 40%. 10% is the number who only plays PvP and nothing else, and I'd like to point out that several top players like Sindrener also play (or played?) raids occasionally so technicaly they aren't in the 10%, which means the number of people with a main interest may be even higher than that. Let's assume it's 20%.

Potentially losing 20% of you playerbase because the balance team is slow, inefficient, and out of touch is NOT okay and Anet isn't lifting a finger to change that. If PvP dies out that will make a large number of that 40% play less or just simply quit. Lower numbers = less revenue and eventually that'll bite you in the ass in the future even if you don't play PvP because the only way to make up for bleeding money is a more shady gemstore (lootboxes, for example).

[Seyiwaji.4082]

@"Reaper Alim.4176" said:Actually I think elite specs are awesome. However the lack care, balance, and poor match quality would send most packing. To ventures that actually care about their PvP customers.

The fall of GW2 from ESL, the devs only viewing PvP as a afterthought, the lack of build diversity. All of that just make the game subpar for newer players. And if said player is not yet really deeply invested in this game. Than It has no chance at attracting their attention, compared to the others on the market.

GW2 is little more than a social dress up multiplayer game. Other games are just superior to GW2's PvP and RvR, and PvE story, and Raids. GW2 only has a few things going for it.

• Grind is not needed.
• Player skill is almost a worthless commodity in this game.
• Casual Openworld Events
• F2P

Outside of that good luck enticing new players, to invest in GW2.

ActuallyGrind is not needed, is not true. (because it is needed)Player skill is worthless: is not in favor of Gw2Casual Openworld Event..... hmmm.... i give you that may be.F2P gw2, F2P is a total joke not really free 2p.

Even the forum is ugly and unpleasant to read.

So the only thing it can offer is : Openworld Event.

and now to your question:Are elite specializations making Guild Wars 2 unattractive for new players ?

Simple answer yes:Because if you play the same class as other fresh people and they ask you: Hey how do you do those skills, how can i get them.You answer: You have to "Pay" "Buy" this part of the game. You know how it sounds?

It may appeal to old player deep in love with the game, but this, toward new player, a bad buiseness model.

[Dreams.3128]

@Seyiwaji.4082 said:

@"Reaper Alim.4176" said:Actually I think elite specs are awesome. However the lack care, balance, and poor match quality would send most packing. To ventures that actually care about their PvP customers.

The fall of GW2 from ESL, the devs only viewing PvP as a afterthought, the lack of build diversity. All of that just make the game subpar for newer players. And if said player is not yet really deeply invested in this game. Than It has no chance at attracting their attention, compared to the others on the market.

GW2 is little more than a social dress up multiplayer game. Other games are just superior to GW2's PvP and RvR, and PvE story, and Raids. GW2 only has a few things going for it.

• Grind is not needed.
• Player skill is almost a worthless commodity in this game.
• Casual Openworld Events
• F2P

Outside of that good luck enticing new players, to invest in GW2.

Actually

Grind is not needed, is not true. (because it is needed)Player skill is worthless: is not in favor of Gw2Casual Openworld Event..... hmmm.... i give you that may be.F2P gw2, F2P is a total joke not really free 2p.

Even the forum is ugly and unpleasant to read.

So the only thing it can offer is : Openworld Event.

and now to your question:Are elite specializations making Guild Wars 2 unattractive for new players ?

Simple answer yes:Because if you play the same class as other fresh people and they ask you: Hey how do you do those skills, how can i get them.You answer: You have to

"Pay" "Buy"

this part of the game. You know how it sounds?

It may appeal to old player deep in love with the game, but this, toward new player, a

bad buiseness model

.

But that's in any mmo that has been out for awhile.

ESOWoWSWTORFF

All of them have level caps/new classes that come with their expansion. So that's not a good argument or a bad business model. If a new player is behind, and they want to experience that next set of content, why shouldn't the game get money for it? You are playing the whole core game free (which surprisingly, is a lot).

What, do you want everything else to be free as well? That defeats the purpose of a company.

It is the veterans that are complaining more than the new players. Trust me, now looking across this, it is majority of veterans that have been crying about everything from HoT all the way up until PoF. New players kinda hitch a ride and go forth. I know that's how I was when HoT came out, and I've only been on this game for two years.

[Reaper Alim.4176]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@Seyiwaji.4082 said:

@"Reaper Alim.4176" said:Actually I think elite specs are awesome. However the lack care, balance, and poor match quality would send most packing. To ventures that actually care about their PvP customers.

The fall of GW2 from ESL, the devs only viewing PvP as a afterthought, the lack of build diversity. All of that just make the game subpar for newer players. And if said player is not yet really deeply invested in this game. Than It has no chance at attracting their attention, compared to the others on the market.

GW2 is little more than a social dress up multiplayer game. Other games are just superior to GW2's PvP and RvR, and PvE story, and Raids. GW2 only has a few things going for it.

• Grind is not needed.
• Player skill is almost a worthless commodity in this game.
• Casual Openworld Events
• F2P

Outside of that good luck enticing new players, to invest in GW2.

Actually

Grind is not needed, is not true. (because it is needed)Player skill is worthless: is not in favor of Gw2Casual Openworld Event..... hmmm.... i give you that may be.F2P gw2, F2P is a total joke not really free 2p.

Even the forum is ugly and unpleasant to read.

So the only thing it can offer is : Openworld Event.

and now to your question:Are elite specializations making Guild Wars 2 unattractive for new players ?

Simple answer yes:Because if you play the same class as other fresh people and they ask you: Hey how do you do those skills, how can i get them.You answer: You have to

"Pay" "Buy"

this part of the game. You know how it sounds?

It may appeal to old player deep in love with the game, but this, toward new player, a

bad buiseness model

.

But that's in any mmo that has been out for awhile.

ESOWoWSWTORFF

All of them have level caps/new classes that come with their expansion. So that's not a good argument or a bad business model. If a new player is behind, and they want to experience that next set of content, why shouldn't the game get money for it? You are playing the whole core game free (which surprisingly, is a lot).

What, do you want everything else to be free as well? That defeats the purpose of a company.

It is the veterans that are complaining more than the new players. Trust me, now looking across this, it is majority of veterans that have been crying about everything from HoT all the way up until PoF. New players kinda hitch a ride and go forth. I know that's how I was when HoT came out, and I've only been on this game for two years.

Uggh.... You completely missed my point. Plus obviously you think I'm one of the other players advocating for Free gaming. Which I never have, and never will. I spent well over $1700 here in GW2 via gem store and expansions. I don't regret a single bit of it either. Because the game was good back than. Soon as ANet shown us, it's high disgust to us WvW and PvP type players. I simply moved my small funding and most of my time investment, to other places who accepted and delivered.

What I am advocating for. Is quality content for the price we pay here in GW2, compared to other games that are similar. I am actually one of the few who believed if done right (paid Elite Specs) is a good idea for GW2. Which it's currently far below other mainstream MMOs that offer's RvR content's standards.

I've been warned by ANet's moderators for talking about ESO, and Eve Online. So I won't even talk about those two. Since you've brought up some like MMOs. I want you to serious compare the quality and dedication of staff in each of those MMOs to GW2. (From a player PoV it's really night and day and that's sad! Maybe outside of SWTOR. They have much superior quality in their stories, PvP, RvR, NPCs, Raids, and in some cases visuals. That's what I was talking about.

A potential new PvP or RvR player to GW2 that does any cursory research would get turned off at the door. Unless they need a super casual, non grind, super low skill-based, F2P MMO to play. Some may even download the F2P portion of GW2. However I'm willing to bet that more than 80% of those F2Pers will not even think to invest any type of money into this game. When they can pay to same price or less and get a much better quality game for their needs.

And if they are RvR or PvP oriented players, please forget trying to convince them to invest in GW2. Because it's devs no longer even supports this game's PvP and RvR modes. (That's like asking Joe Blow to try and buy this Windows 98 Operating software for the price of Windows 10 64 bit to play his Star Citizen. Which the company not only don't support Windows 98 anymore. But also Windows 98 is vastly inferior to Windows 10 64 bit) Which is foolhardy at best.

That's what I was saying. I was not saying anything about GW2 should be Free. Or anything of the sort. Just that the quality of this game is pretty inferior in many categories. Because of the lack of dev attention, management, care, or the combination of the three, to over two thirds of the game. I am actually one of those gamers who have 2 or 3 actually long term subs to MMOs. Why I sub to these MMOs you ask? The answer is simple the devs. gave us a product that is worthy of investing time and money into. Because not only do they support their players. But these MMO companies have shown us that THEY WILL NOT GIVE UP ON US EVEN WHEN THE GOING GET'S TOUGH. Some have done this on more than one or two occasions and pulled through for us. So in my eyes. I happily give them $100 to 300 a month so they can continue providing us this type of service. When others will not and just cash and run.

TL:DR ANet can't not and will not convince newer players to invest in this game. Unless they start caring and show that they are their valued consumers. If not These newer players will go invest in someone else's game. Who will for the price or lower.

[Ithilwen.1529]

@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@Seyiwaji.4082 said:

@"Reaper Alim.4176" said:Actually I think elite specs are awesome. However the lack care, balance, and poor match quality would send most packing. To ventures that actually care about their PvP customers.

The fall of GW2 from ESL, the devs only viewing PvP as a afterthought, the lack of build diversity. All of that just make the game subpar for newer players. And if said player is not yet really deeply invested in this game. Than It has no chance at attracting their attention, compared to the others on the market.

GW2 is little more than a social dress up multiplayer game. Other games are just superior to GW2's PvP and RvR, and PvE story, and Raids. GW2 only has a few things going for it.

• Grind is not needed.
• Player skill is almost a worthless commodity in this game.
• Casual Openworld Events
• F2P

Outside of that good luck enticing new players, to invest in GW2.

Actually

Grind is not needed, is not true. (because it is needed)Player skill is worthless: is not in favor of Gw2Casual Openworld Event..... hmmm.... i give you that may be.F2P gw2, F2P is a total joke not really free 2p.

Even the forum is ugly and unpleasant to read.

So the only thing it can offer is : Openworld Event.

and now to your question:Are elite specializations making Guild Wars 2 unattractive for new players ?

Simple answer yes:Because if you play the same class as other fresh people and they ask you: Hey how do you do those skills, how can i get them.You answer: You have to

"Pay" "Buy"

this part of the game. You know how it sounds?

It may appeal to old player deep in love with the game, but this, toward new player, a

bad buiseness model

.

But that's in any mmo that has been out for awhile.

ESOWoWSWTORFF

All of them have level caps/new classes that come with their expansion. So that's not a good argument or a bad business model. If a new player is behind, and they want to experience that next set of content, why shouldn't the game get money for it? You are playing the whole core game free (which surprisingly, is a lot).

What, do you want everything else to be free as well? That defeats the purpose of a company.

It is the veterans that are complaining more than the new players. Trust me, now looking across this, it is majority of veterans that have been crying about everything from HoT all the way up until PoF. New players kinda hitch a ride and go forth. I know that's how I was when HoT came out, and I've only been on this game for two years.

No, I'm willing to pay for expansions and always excited when new stuff comes out.

What does not excite me is the extreme imbalance and aoe. In my 6th year of the game, I've thoroughly enjoyed PvE. On the other hand, PvP has been a trial and a chore. It seems always that the "trick of the week" is dominant.

Paying to play a new specialization is well and good. Paying to win is not.

[Dreams.3128]

@Ithilwen.1529 said:

@Lilyanna.9361 said:

@Seyiwaji.4082 said:

@"Reaper Alim.4176" said:Actually I think elite specs are awesome. However the lack care, balance, and poor match quality would send most packing. To ventures that actually care about their PvP customers.

The fall of GW2 from ESL, the devs only viewing PvP as a afterthought, the lack of build diversity. All of that just make the game subpar for newer players. And if said player is not yet really deeply invested in this game. Than It has no chance at attracting their attention, compared to the others on the market.

GW2 is little more than a social dress up multiplayer game. Other games are just superior to GW2's PvP and RvR, and PvE story, and Raids. GW2 only has a few things going for it.

• Grind is not needed.
• Player skill is almost a worthless commodity in this game.
• Casual Openworld Events
• F2P

Outside of that good luck enticing new players, to invest in GW2.

Actually

Grind is not needed, is not true. (because it is needed)Player skill is worthless: is not in favor of Gw2Casual Openworld Event..... hmmm.... i give you that may be.F2P gw2, F2P is a total joke not really free 2p.

Even the forum is ugly and unpleasant to read.

So the only thing it can offer is : Openworld Event.

and now to your question:Are elite specializations making Guild Wars 2 unattractive for new players ?

Simple answer yes:Because if you play the same class as other fresh people and they ask you: Hey how do you do those skills, how can i get them.You answer: You have to

"Pay" "Buy"

this part of the game. You know how it sounds?

It may appeal to old player deep in love with the game, but this, toward new player, a

bad buiseness model

.

But that's in any mmo that has been out for awhile.

ESOWoWSWTORFF

All of them have level caps/new classes that come with their expansion. So that's not a good argument or a bad business model. If a new player is behind, and they want to experience that next set of content, why shouldn't the game get money for it? You are playing the whole core game free (which surprisingly, is a lot).

What, do you want everything else to be free as well? That defeats the purpose of a company.

It is the veterans that are complaining more than the new players. Trust me, now looking across this, it is majority of veterans that have been crying about everything from HoT all the way up until PoF. New players kinda hitch a ride and go forth. I know that's how I was when HoT came out, and I've only been on this game for two years.

No, I'm willing to pay for expansions and always excited when new stuff comes out.

What does not excite me is the extreme imbalance and aoe. In my 6th year of the game, I've thoroughly enjoyed PvE. On the other hand, PvP has been a trial and a chore. It seems always that the "trick of the week" is dominant.

Paying to play a new specialization is well and good. Paying to win is not.

How is it pay to win? Yes, it is hard, but not impossible. A lot of core classes can get you into plat and even into legend if you absolutely work hard enough. It is dedication.

If you are trash at scourge you will dieIf you are trash at Chrono you will dieIf you are trash at any class you will die

No it's not pay to win, it's pay to play with different mechanics. Don't be mad just because core mesmer or whatever core class you play isn't up to par. Which is funny because a lot of the core classes are meta and can get you into high tier play. At this point people are just trying to fish with any excuse in the book.

PVP is bad with certain aspects, but don't take classes or the willingness to play classes or specs on the company. That's your own fault.

[ArthurDent.9538]

New Elite specs are fun and add some freshness to the game. The problem is entirely due to the balance teams incompetence in regards to releasing some things that are way too strong, some things that are way too weak, and then taking practically (and in some cases literally) forever to attempt to adjust any of it.

[dante.3590]

After a year, started playing the game and I still find so many points are valid. I generally feel PVP balance could be lot better with or without the difference of elite spec.

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

Woah... You necro'd a one year dead and buried post ;)

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

When I first started gw2(very first mmo), I found it overwhelming... Coz i didn't play before HOT or POF. 9classes, each with two specialization.... Then i decided to go with the flow... and it was addictive... B) ...