Unfair treatment to the Red Team Again.

[babana.7521]

13 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

You are making a very strange argument based only which position on map a Hero Point/Challenge will be because of map colour? I have done most HP in WvW sooner or later and most other WvWer and PvEer (yes those had to go and get all HP in the old days where we didn't have expac or could exchange/buy with WvW currencies Hero Points for training our builds to unlock new elites fast).

Normally you and your server (World) will be on a rotation where you change colour on map and which map that will be your home base. And for as you say it is a competitive mode which mean you tag up yourself with squad tag and get some people that also need to get there and have that as an objective to fight/defend while other channel. In worse situation go there when most other are sleeping or having their Ktrain focused on other things. It is not hard to follow flow and ebb in WvW in map chat and team chat for your own server.

This is beside the point, off course everyone can get to it, the point is why did Anet put that point there on the red map, its no fair to whoever have the red map. its very simple. just move the point to either the skritt camp or wyvern nest

[Zok.4956]

On 6/8/2023 at 4:03 AM, babana.7521 said:

That's not the point, competitive game mode needs to be fair.

Are you kidding? It's WvWvW. This mode has never been fair and never will, and the drama of unfairness is part of the entertainment. 😎

[Zok.4956]

On 6/7/2023 at 10:02 PM, FaisanRosadoDulce.7680 said:

People are really camping those? I never encountered anybody in those areas of the map(s).

In the hours after the patch farming happened a lot in stonemist. But all the other hero points were kind of safe, because all players there went for the hero points and nobody was fighting (just one or two tryhards) and red/blue/green just waited at the hero points until they were finished because it was crowded and most players made sure, that they did not even autoattack other players who waited for their turn.

[babana.7521]

On 6/8/2023 at 10:10 AM, T G.7496 said:

It is precisely the point.

It is fair because if you play the mode for more than one week the chances are you will find yourself having played as each of the three team colours in as little as three weeks, maybe longer, but for sure eventually.

And it's the same for everyone.

Which is fair.

 

No, it is not fair because red team needs to go further on every of the borderlands and on EBG to get the hero points required to complete said achievement regardless how long you play.  

Fair means every point is exactly same distance for every one. like the one in SMC 

 

Edited June 12, 2023 by babana.7521

[Keaira.6943]

I'm confused by this discussion. They used hero points that were part of world completion years ago and exist in game for ages. Should they have redone the map for this one time achievement? Shouldn't they put resources to better things?

[babana.7521]

Just now, Keaira.6943 said:

I'm confused by this discussion. They used hero points that were part of world completion years ago and exist in game for ages. Should they have redone the map for this one time achievement? Shouldn't they put resources to better things?

Every borderland map have 3 hero's points. On the Alpine borderlands ArenaNet decided to assign the point needed for the achievement in the northern part of the map, now when you are green or blue team, you start from Citadel and go left or right to the points, and on the Red map it is the southern most hero's point. and the green and blue team simply walks out of their spawn to the middle of the south and they can get the point.
 

Where as for the red team, regardless of the map they are on, they have to go further than the other 2 teams to get to the designated location. Now if ArenaNet were to move the hero's point needed on the Red Desert Borderland to one of the hero's point on the northern part of the map, it would solve the problem. 

Anyone who is on the red team with the current design, for them to get to complete the achievement, they need to go further than any other team need to for all the hero's points except the one in SMC. 

[Chaba.5410]

21 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

No, it is not fair because red team needs to go further on every of the borderlands and on EBG to get the hero points required to complete said achievement regardless how long you play.  

Fair means every point is exactly same distance for every one. like the one in SMC 

 

This doesn't sound right.

The hero points ("places of power" really) in EBG are all evenly distributed.  Everyone has 2 nearby and 1 far.

The only one arguable is the south hero point on redbl.  Red has to go far north twice and far south once.  Green has 1 near north, 1 far north, and 1 near south, same as blue.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[babana.7521]

28 minutes ago, Chaba.5410 said:

This doesn't sound right.

The hero points ("places of power" really) in EBG are all evenly distributed.  Everyone has 2 nearby and 1 far.

The only one arguable is the south hero point on redbl.  Red has to go far north twice and far south once.  Green has 1 near north, 1 far north, and 1 near south, same as blue.

go look at the map.

[Chaba.5410]

6 minutes ago, babana.7521 said:

go look at the map.

Hello?  There's only one "place of power" on each borderland.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Place_of_power#World_vs_World

Or did you mean the EBG map where every place of power is spread evenly for all three teams?

Edited June 12, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Chaba.5410]

On 6/7/2023 at 4:05 PM, babana.7521 said:

Blue and Green team just need to run from Citadel to the left and right for the points. 

How has this thread gotten this far with no one pointing out to you that blue and green only have one place of power in the north on their borderlands?  Blue can only go to the Centaurs and Green can only go to the Skritt, not go both right and left from their spawn.  The skritt hero point on the blue borderland isn't a place of power you can commune with for the achievement.  It's an NPC you kill (not repeatable either iirc).  So blue has to go far north on green borderland for the skritt and green has to go far north for the centaur on the blue borderland.

As I wrote earlier, arguably only the red borderland place of power is somewhat near for them and far for red.  I guess I don't see why that's such a big deal when everyone has to go far at some point.

Edited June 12, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[T G.7496]

I give up.

None of this is remotely significant.

And it is perfectly fair anyway. You just won't accept it because it seems, for you and for the basis of your argument, this collection (and maybe your entire journey in WvW) only lasts one week, and red team will always be red.

Also, as others have noted, WvW is, anyway, designed as only a vaguely symmetric adversarial game mode. Notwithstanding the eccentricities of individual class balance/imbalance, the mode is fundamentally designed to promote opportunities for asymmetric engagements.

But even this is fairness at play, because those opportunities exist for all players to take advantage of.

Your idea of absolute fairness is entirely misapplied to the design philosophy and reality of WvW. Your logic is completely flawed.

[babana.7521]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

How has this thread gotten this far with no one pointing out to you that blue and green only have one place of power in the north on their borderlands?  Blue can only go to the Centaurs and Green can only go to the Skritt, not go both right and left from their spawn.  The skritt hero point on the blue borderland isn't a place of power you can commune with for the achievement.  It's an NPC you kill (not repeatable either iirc).  So blue has to go far north on green borderland for the skritt and green has to go far north for the centaur on the blue borderland.

As I wrote earlier, arguably only the red borderland place of power is somewhat near for them and far for red.  I guess I don't see why that's such a big deal when everyone has to go far at some point.

What has that got to do with the unfair treatment of the matter at hand, both blue and green does the same amount of work to get the achievement, where as if you are on the  Red team you need to do more than what green and blue needs to do, hence why it is unfair. If all 3 hero's points needed for the achievement are on the northern region of the 3 maps or all 3 on the southern most region, the matter will be resolve.

Edited June 13, 2023 by babana.7521

[Chaba.5410]

2 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

What has that got to do with the unfair treatment of the matter at hand, both blue and green does the same amount of work to get the achievement, where as if you are on the  Red team you need to do more than what green and blue needs to do, hence why it is unfair. If all 3 hero's points needed for the achievement are on the northern region of the 3 maps or all 3 on the southern most region, the matter will be resolve.

As I wrote originally, if you are red, you only have one place of power where you have to do a little more than blue or green and that's the point on the red map.  It sounded like you thought red had "to go further on every of the borderlands and on EBG ".  It's only on red map that red has to go a little further.  Are you just trying to make the distance seem bigger than it really is?

My guess is that the hero challenge system doesn't allow them to easily replace the NPC challenges with places of power.  Maybe they can be moved, but then you'd have a skritt sitting in the oasis out of place.

Fun fact: red alpine borderland also has the place of power in the south.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[babana.7521]

2 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

As I wrote originally, if you are red, you only have one place of power where you have to do a little more than blue or green and that's the point on the red map.  It sounded like you thought red had "to go further on every of the borderlands and on EBG ".  It's only on red map that red has to go a little further.  Are you just trying to make the distance seem bigger than it really is?

My guess is that the hero challenge system doesn't allow them to easily replace the NPC challenges with places of power.  Maybe they can be moved, but then you'd have a skritt sitting in the oasis out of place.

Fun fact: red alpine borderland also has the place of power in the south.

OMG ... are you trolling me? Look at where the achievement sends you to and then imagine you are starting on a red map. all borderland point including the one in EBG (except SMC) are not fair towards red team.

Edited June 13, 2023 by babana.7521

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, babana.7521 said:

OMG ... are you trolling me? Look at where the achievement sends you to and then imagine you are starting on a red map. all borderland point including the one in EBG (except SMC) are not fair towards red team.

You gotta be trolling yourself.

Here's EBG
https://ibb.co/Xyq1yBc

Edited June 13, 2023 by Chaba.5410

[Zok.4956]

1 hour ago, Chaba.5410 said:

2 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

OMG ... are you trolling me? Look at where the achievement sends you to and then imagine you are starting on a red map. all borderland point including the one in EBG (except SMC) are not fair towards red team.

You gotta be trolling yourself.

Here's EBG
https://ibb.co/Xyq1yBc

Don't disturb the discussion with facts. 😉 

For red servers that don't defend Anza or Ogre towers, the EBG hero points are deep in enemy corners.  😎

[Zok.4956]

3 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

OMG ... are you trolling me? Look at where the achievement sends you to and then imagine you are starting on a red map. all borderland point including the one in EBG (except SMC) are not fair towards red team.

You do know that you need 4 hero points in EBG for the achievement? The 3 hero points outside SMC are placed in the areas between two teams, so that every team has one hero point on the opposite side of SMC. I see no unfairness there.

Edited June 13, 2023 by Zok.4956

[Luthan.5236]

Always liked red. And that the map does not look entirely the same for everyone. (Same corner in EBG.) The layout is roughly the same. Yes Anzalia often gets trashed and no one defends it - in the red corner. I like the keep layout from red the most though. Others too ugly imo.

[babana.7521]

4 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

You gotta be trolling yourself.

Here's EBG
https://ibb.co/Xyq1yBc

That shows exactly what I said, Red team has to run all the way south and get  in between 2 enemy's area to get the hero's point. I failed to see how that is trolling myself.

[Chaba.5410]

3 hours ago, babana.7521 said:

That shows exactly what I said, Red team has to run all the way south and get  in between 2 enemy's area to get the hero's point. I failed to see how that is trolling myself.

Try rotating the triangle so that the green or blue spawns are the northern point. Now answer the question which required hero point is the most south?

Why is this unfair?

Edited June 13, 2023 by Chaba.5410