The Joy of Relinks

[TheGrimm.5624]

So wanted a view of NA and EU, since we are trying to measure the impact of the beta weeks versus normal relinks. Before the beta where were you, and after beta where did you land? One of the factors impacting the beta is the glicko sorts that impact week one compared to normal relinks. Coming out of the beta is similar to relinks. So where did you leave from and where did you land after the beta?

[Dawdler.8521]

What are you even talking about lol, relink is next month and everyone end up on the exact same world they where 2 weeks ago. Yesterdays reset was absolutely nothing similar to a relink.

[ManiacMika.9851]

I think he means the tier, not the team.

On the first week of a new link, your team will get assigned a position on the ladder which is not related to previous week since some teams are newly linked. @TheGrimm.5624 believes this is affected by the old Glicko rating. Might be, not sure.

I'd say that whatever the end result of the last non-beta week should have given the current ladder. But if I remember correctly, it's not always the case.

I've tried to find any website that would record archive of the Ladder, but none that I know are doing exactly that.
https://kills.werdes.net - only records kills and deaths
https://next.werdes.net/ - uses live data from api, therefore no archive
https://gw2mists.com/ - same thing, live data, no archive
https://wvwstats.com - last match history from 2018
http://gw2stats.com/ - has matchup history, but only records warscore instead of vp.

All these tools are archaic or unfit to answer this question, very sadly.
I guess, I know what tool needs to be developed now.
Still, able to give how the ladder looked like for Week 22 (03-10 June) according to the last website in the list.
(For brevity, only the Hosting world will be listed, sorted by Green, Blue, Red)

NA-T1 Sea of Sorrows, Fort Aspenwood, Maguuma
NA-T2 Dragonbrand, Sanctum of Rall, Jade Quarry
NA-T3 Gate of Madness, Ehmry Bay, Blackgate
NA-T4 Stormbluff Isle, Tarnished Coast, Darkhaven
EU-T1 Gandara, Fissure of Woe, Riverside
EU-T2 Aurora Glade, Whiteside Ridge, Underworld
EU-T3 Piken Square, Jade Sea, Vabbi
EU-T4 Ring of Fire, Ruins of Surmia, Gunnar's Hold
EU-T5 Blacktide, Far Shiverpeaks, Seafarer's Rest

Will try to make an image soon for better clarity.

[ManiacMika.9851]

The EU worlds are incorrect on my previous post. I forgot to double check with other sources.
Any ways, here is the picture:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/872791478345281588/1122188886509105304/7uHiLAP8gVAAAAABJRU5ErkJggg.png

It's messy! It's not like this in 1up-1down situation, but this shows how the "first week" randomness applies to the first week after beta instead of resuming where it left off.

The 4 weeks to adjust the power level of teams on the ladder is starting over.

[Dawdler.8521]

So thats what he meant with "where did you leave from and where did you land" lol. Well that make it a whole lot more understandable, it sounded like he was talking about having a different world 🤔

Anyway yeah tiers might be messed up and its a curbstomp in many tiers currently, but 10 out of 10 of players on stomping servers will agree this is totally better now because they are no longer outnumbered.

Edited June 24, 2023 by Dawdler.8521

[TheGrimm.5624]

 

2 hours ago, ManiacMika.9851 said:

I think he means the tier, not the team.

On the first week of a new link, your team will get assigned a position on the ladder which is not related to previous week since some teams are newly linked. @TheGrimm.5624 believes this is affected by the old Glicko rating. Might be, not sure.

I'd say that whatever the end result of the last non-beta week should have given the current ladder. But if I remember correctly, it's not always the case.

I've tried to find any website that would record archive of the Ladder, but none that I know are doing exactly that.
https://kills.werdes.net - only records kills and deaths
https://next.werdes.net/ - uses live data from api, therefore no archive
https://gw2mists.com/ - same thing, live data, no archive
https://wvwstats.com - last match history from 2018
http://gw2stats.com/ - has matchup history, but only records warscore instead of vp.

All these tools are archaic or unfit to answer this question, very sadly.
I guess, I know what tool needs to be developed now.
Still, able to give how the ladder looked like for Week 22 (03-10 June) according to the last website in the list.
(For brevity, only the Hosting world will be listed, sorted by Green, Blue, Red)

NA-T1 Sea of Sorrows, Fort Aspenwood, Maguuma
NA-T2 Dragonbrand, Sanctum of Rall, Jade Quarry
NA-T3 Gate of Madness, Ehmry Bay, Blackgate
NA-T4 Stormbluff Isle, Tarnished Coast, Darkhaven
EU-T1 Gandara, Fissure of Woe, Riverside
EU-T2 Aurora Glade, Whiteside Ridge, Underworld
EU-T3 Piken Square, Jade Sea, Vabbi
EU-T4 Ring of Fire, Ruins of Surmia, Gunnar's Hold
EU-T5 Blacktide, Far Shiverpeaks, Seafarer's Rest

Will try to make an image soon for better clarity.

Correct, been trying to figure out what factors impact the placement after relinks. Likewise trying to figure out if that new WR system will be impacted by the same variables. Since we have been just doing 1 week testing for betas outside of this last one, how much is the impact of the initial week's tier placement versus the actual team sorts. Have seen varied matchup across the betas. With limited communication from the devs its hard to tell if they have been tweaking inbetween or not. Hence we get a lot of mixed feedback from the playerbase. When looking at it, is some of that mixed feedback from sorting or where the sorted servers than landed in the tiers. Hence the question. Sorry for any confusion. I try and remind myself posting when you should be sleeping is not a good idea, but stupid is as stupid does.

Edited June 24, 2023 by TheGrimm.5624
spelling

[MedievalThings.5417]

TC on NA.  We were T4 on relinks, T4 when the beta started, and (huh, how odd) T1 after beta.  We aren't even a host world for beta, our server is a link (renamed obviously) during the beta weeks.

 

Good Ol' Anet.

[SFShinigami.1572]

• As best I can tell the beta week servers are just renames of the current servers and players are shuffled around.  If you look at the score sites that still work during the betas, you can see where the servers get sorted and at one point in game it would say things like "Desolation has captured Rogues Quarry" even though it was Moogaloo or something.  Im guessing that means that the beta matches probably also affect glicko scores, which is why Deso was in T3 and is now in T1.  But who knows, since theyre constantly working on it they could be updating that at any given moment for all we know.

[Dawdler.8521]

7 hours ago, SFShinigami.1572 said:

• As best I can tell the beta week servers are just renames of the current servers and players are shuffled around.  If you look at the score sites that still work during the betas, you can see where the servers get sorted and at one point in game it would say things like "Desolation has captured Rogues Quarry" even though it was Moogaloo or something.  Im guessing that means that the beta matches probably also affect glicko scores, which is why Deso was in T3 and is now in T1.  But who knows, since theyre constantly working on it they could be updating that at any given moment for all we know.

It is because the beta system is just slapped on top. If they "fix" this, they would permanently break normal WvW without major patching/rework of the backend rather than seamless transition. And with the betas lasting a week or two, thats not really an option.

TL;DR this week of world placement is basicly the first beta week (random tiers) without the actual team balancing. Of course people are going to choose to ignore what this means when they happily never play outnumbered and for totally unrelated reasons win every skirmish.

[TheGrimm.5624]

15 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

So thats what he meant with "where did you leave from and where did you land" lol. Well that make it a whole lot more understandable, it sounded like he was talking about having a different world 🤔

Anyway yeah tiers might be messed up and its a curbstomp in many tiers currently, but 10 out of 10 of players on stomping servers will agree this is totally better now because they are no longer outnumbered.

Dawdler, all I am getting at is, what logic is used after a relink. Is the same logic used during a WR sorting? Does some of the out of balance matches steem from the logic that is used after relinking or from sorting? Does that make more sense? lol, and we have bantered enough, not even replying versus dropping me to a pronoun. Come on my snarky friend, I expect more from you after all these years 🙂 . 

[Dawdler.8521]

Oh I thought it was obvious what I was replying to in such a short context. You dont always need to quote things to make it understandable.

It really doesnt matter what they did, it is what is. Maybe they just forgot to reset to old matchup tiers because Anet doing Anet things.

[TheGrimm.5624]

8 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said:

Oh I thought it was obvious what I was replying to in such a short context. You dont always need to quote things to make it understandable.

It really doesnt matter what they did, it is what is. Maybe they just forgot to reset to old matchup tiers because Anet doing Anet things.

lol, hey but consider some of us as distracted, see other threads SMH, and consider that the replies help to focus the point. I admit I am ADHD and IT which I see ADHD as a benfit since we need to switch gears at o'dark hundred to get things back online. I appreciate it when others point out things I assumed, Chaba, hats off on a number of them, but I may miss them at times to. So if I miss the mark, quote me so this old dude sees I missed the mark and can banter at you more to the make the point. I will fail at times misisng various sides but in IT we try and target an issue from multiple sides to understand where things went wrong. So consider it more of a trying to get more details. IT is like the game clue. It ss the who, in the where, with the what. I take trying to debug gaming in the same light to get a clue of what actually happenned. In vain I hope it helps in the debugging, but its in vain but still part of the game. Each tp their own on trying to help the game's direction. 🙂 As always, good hunting to you!