New Mirage PvE Player - Should I be worried about the changes?

[Obscura Nox.1387]

Hey everyone. 

I don't want to jump on the Doom & Gloom Train too much, but as someone who just started playing as a Mirage Mesmer, the Patch Notes got me a bit worried, in particular the changes to the Dodge, Confusion and Staff Auto Attack.

Full disclaimer, I'm not very good at this game. I picked Staff Mirage Mesmer because it seemed like a good choice for a mostly casual, strictly PvE Player that focuses mostly on Open World Content, and maybe wants to get into Fractals and Stuff later. For reference, I'm using this build specifically: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_Mirage

I'm a new / returning player and I've just got my hands on the gear for my new character, so I just want to know how hard I should brace myself for the upcoming nerfs and what to expect. After searching the forums a bit, Mirage already seems to be in a much worse spot than I thought they would be, though Forum Complaints have to be taken with a grain of salt usually. 

I really enjoy the more passive, defensive playstyle I've gotten used to, so it would be a bit...discouraging to learn that I might end up being dead weight in PvE Content. Being a new player certainly doesn't help either, as I don't have the Gold or the Hero Points to max and gear out another Elite Spec even if I wanted to, so I'm pretty much stuck with Mirage either way. 

Can some of the more experienced Mirage PvE Players share some insight here? 

tl;dr - Just wanna know how screwed, if at all, I'm going to be post patch. 

[GetFoxxed.9478]

Yeah, better respec or find a game that's not balanced like a primary school project.

[Varis.5467]

1 hour ago, GetFoxxed.9478 said:

Yeah, better respec or find a game that's not balanced like a primary school project.

Primary school project?

You mean primary school hallways with certain class being bullied constantly hey?

[Dawnbreaker.4901]

I'm not a "pro" at the game by any means - I tend to deal with buffs and nerfs as they happen. Dual Staff Mirage is pretty much all I play on my Mesmer. If the changes for Mirage pan out to be horrible, I'm probably not going to be playing it much, if at all. Alacrity application was bugged for nearly a month when the major changes to Staff were introduced a year or two ago - I didn't play the game at all during that time.

The Confusion change could be good or bad. Probably bad.

"Mirage can longer dodge while Immobilized" - That sucks. It's probably the worst change of the lot.

"Chaos Vortex: Reduced clone bleeding and torment duration from 8 seconds to 4 seconds." - This, on top of the Confusion changes means it will probably be bad.

For Open World PvE, you're probably fine. Open World PvE/Story content is generally pretty easy. If you're going to be doing instanced content, such as Fractals, you might want to prepare yourself, or plan on playing Alacrity Mirage instead of the Condi  If these changes end up absolutely sucking, there's a ton of other classes to play. Unfortunately for me, I don't care about a majority of those classes. While I really only focus on Open World PvE content, these changes might make the Mirage considerably less fun - I value fun more than anything else. I won't know until the patch goes live.

I've been enjoying my Tempest lately, but overall, the game has been less and less fun as time has gone on. I have little faith in the current Balance team to do anything worthwhile. I'm more on the side of "doom and gloom", than say, "sunshine and rainbows".

[Veprovina.4876]

1 hour ago, Dawnbreaker.4901 said:

For Open World PvE, you're probably fine.

You know, i'm not even sure about that anymore. Big part of why Mirage worked in open world is because you could dodge while immobd or cc'd, and some open world content has a LOT of CC/immob spam that Mirage doesn't have any other way to deal with with, without losing other survivability or damage.

 

 

[Kiro Kobra.6478]

Yes, absolutely. Mesmers of all flavors do not handle CC effects well, with the exception being Mirage with their dodge. But, that’s going to be a thing of the past after the patch.

 

When it comes to survival, the only “real” option after the patch is going to be Virtuoso with the traited block on Bladesongs paired with traited stability from Bladesongs in Chaos.

 

EDIT: or take Inspiration instead of Chaos and use the stability mantra. But you’ll do less damage AND you’ll need to “prep” the Mantra, thereby wasting the aegis since the initial cast doesn’t break stun. That said, a dead Mesmer does ZERO damage so, perhaps Inspiration isn’t a bad idea.

 

For Open World, I currently run Illusions, Inspiration, Virtuoso paired with Tormenting runes. My build doesn’t generate bleeds since I’m traited into block, but the tormenting stacks quite well and I can get them to tick for over 2k damage. I run 3 pieces of celestial and 3 pieces or rampager. I can solo most open world champs. But there is little room for mistakes as Mesmer is general is quite squishy. I have died on champs that I can usually solo, all because of a small mistake. It’s high APM and not for newbies, but at the end of the day, viable. I can solo the same champs on my Spellbreaker and Mech with far fewer APM and mental effort. The differences are quite staggering, but I always come back to my Mesmer because it is thematically/aesthetically my favorite lol!

Edited June 25, 2023 by Kiro Kobra.6478

[dead.7638]

Hardest thing about Mesmer in general is knowing not to waste cds.   This applies for offensive and defensive, and in the case with Mesmer there can be both to think about when using a skill.   That said, if you plan to open world pve content, any build you find on a site will be more then 80% fine in any content.   Maybe raids and high end fractal excluded.   However, you find your self wanting do to competitive content on the same build you will have wildly different outcomes and require play styles needed for a number of situations.   I gave up mirage after eod release.   The numerous nerfs it has received is a long gone shell of its original concept and capabilities.   Virtuoso in its current state offers more of a robust build diversity, also chrono is very viable with more build diversity it’s seen in a minute with power/condi/support options.

[draxynnic.3719]

Dual staff mirage has been beaten like a redheaded stepchild in the last few patches. Sucks when you're on the poorer end of the scale and the one build you've put together at a high level gets deleted, but that seems to be the direction the wind is blowing. At this stage, I don't even know what to recommend that you switch to, since at the moment I don't know of another light armour build that uses ritualist's.

[GetFoxxed.9478]

6 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Dual staff mirage has been beaten like a redheaded stepchild in the last few patches. Sucks when you're on the poorer end of the scale and the one build you've put together at a high level gets deleted, but that seems to be the direction the wind is blowing. At this stage, I don't even know what to recommend that you switch to, since at the moment I don't know of another light armour build that uses ritualist's.

quick harbinger, maybe condi chrono, alac tempest

[draxynnic.3719]

5 hours ago, GetFoxxed.9478 said:

quick harbinger, maybe condi chrono, alac tempest

Qharb gets away with Viper's last I checked. Condi chrono didn't really seem to be a thing when I looked, but maybe I missed it (I didn't look THAT hard), and maybe it'll work now. Condialac tempest wasn't using Rit last I checked, but it might work in a pinch.

Edited June 27, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[taara.3217]

On 6/25/2023 at 3:46 PM, Obscura Nox.1387 said:

Hey everyone. 

Hey, my dear Mirage bro)

On 6/25/2023 at 3:46 PM, Obscura Nox.1387 said:

as someone who just started playing as a Mirage Mesmer, the Patch Notes got me a bit worried, in particular the changes to the Dodge, Confusion and Staff Auto Attack.

don't worry) 

Quote

After searching the forums a bit, Mirage already seems to be in a much worse spot than I thought they would be

Sure, due to genius patches Mirage became a whipping boy for unknown reason, but is putting a brave face on it and still the strongest in OW PVE.

Will wait for some patches ahead when ANET will remove it from the game totally - because to knock Mirage from his pedestal they have no other way to do it )

 

Edited July 4, 2023 by taara.3217

[Scolix.4879]

On 6/25/2023 at 4:01 PM, GetFoxxed.9478 said:

Yeah, better respec or find a game that's not balanced like a primary school project.

Good luck with that because I have yet to discover any mmo that actually has anything resembling balance.

[Ider.1276]

On 7/1/2023 at 1:42 PM, Scolix.4879 said:

Good luck with that because I have yet to discover any mmo that actually has anything resembling balance.

Final Fantasy 14. People there cry on the forums about how "bad" balance is while lowest and highest DPS are 5% from each other.

[Scolix.4879]

8 hours ago, Ider.1276 said:

Final Fantasy 14. People there cry on the forums about how "bad" balance is while lowest and highest DPS are 5% from each other.

To be fair even if somehow everything was perfectly balanced people would still moan about something. In wow people whined about racials which had like 0.1-0.5% difference from each others.

Personally i kind of find chasing the perfect balance annoying and many times it sucks out all the fun from the game sure stupidly overpowered thins should not exist but when you chase the "balance" like a maniac it often leads to homogenized extremely boring class design and gameplay.

[Markus.6415]

On 6/27/2023 at 7:39 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Dual staff mirage has been beaten like a redheaded stepchild in the last few patches. Sucks when you're on the poorer end of the scale and the one build you've put together at a high level gets deleted, but that seems to be the direction the wind is blowing. At this stage, I don't even know what to recommend that you switch to, since at the moment I don't know of another light armour build that uses ritualist's.

This is sad but so true. I made me a condi alac tempest now because i'm not going to put up with how awful alac generation is with all the concentration you need now and just another dps nerf slapped over it.

And I'm not even sure if I'll be touching axe mirage given how difficult it is at some raid encounters. My ele builds play easier now and will do more reliable damage. 🤷‍♂️

Edited July 3, 2023 by Markus.6415

[Antrix.4512]

On 6/25/2023 at 3:46 PM, Obscura Nox.1387 said:

Hey everyone. 

I don't want to jump on the Doom & Gloom Train too much, but as someone who just started playing as a Mirage Mesmer, the Patch Notes got me a bit worried, in particular the changes to the Dodge, Confusion and Staff Auto Attack.

Full disclaimer, I'm not very good at this game. I picked Staff Mirage Mesmer because it seemed like a good choice for a mostly casual, strictly PvE Player that focuses mostly on Open World Content, and maybe wants to get into Fractals and Stuff later. For reference, I'm using this build specifically: https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Mirage_-_Condi_Mirage

I'm a new / returning player and I've just got my hands on the gear for my new character, so I just want to know how hard I should brace myself for the upcoming nerfs and what to expect. After searching the forums a bit, Mirage already seems to be in a much worse spot than I thought they would be, though Forum Complaints have to be taken with a grain of salt usually. 

I really enjoy the more passive, defensive playstyle I've gotten used to, so it would be a bit...discouraging to learn that I might end up being dead weight in PvE Content. Being a new player certainly doesn't help either, as I don't have the Gold or the Hero Points to max and gear out another Elite Spec even if I wanted to, so I'm pretty much stuck with Mirage either way. 

Can some of the more experienced Mirage PvE Players share some insight here? 

tl;dr - Just wanna know how screwed, if at all, I'm going to be post patch. 

Since the Thief didn't manage his stealth runner task, I continued using my Mesmer for farming and other grind runs, where some spots are easier to run in stealth. But that's just by the way. As for the essence - my main game mode is solo open world as much as possible (including not only champions but also legendaries). And I assure you with full confidence that the Mesmer is still on top in this type of game content, if we are talking about builds using exotic gear (perhaps the difference on ascended or legendary gear will be in favor of other professions). I have tried absolutely all classes except the Elementalist and Warrior and can say that Mesmer (condi staff mirage) still soloes a lot of content very chill, as well as being very comfortable in general and much easier even than my favorite (main) Revenant. Yes, in some moments (really rare) the nerf of Mirage Cloak is felt, but it's soooooo rare in the OW, that it's barely noticeable.

So you can confidently play this class and only worry about whether it will be nerfed to zero in future. I myself didn't notice how I spent the whole night playing my Mesmer and really enjoyed it. But I'm writing this as a person who doesn't give a [cesored] about PvP and raids and will never play these [censored] game modes.

Edited July 4, 2023 by Antrix.4512

[Skyroar.2974]

For instanced content, wait for the next patch this month, where they'll rework a trait to boost staff's alac numbers back to previous numbers.

For solo open world content, Mirage has been buffed. 14.5k dps (before) > 16.2k (after) according to Lord Hizen's latest video.

[Geronmy.3298]

3 hours ago, Skyroar.2974 said:

For instanced content, wait for the next patch this month, where they'll rework a trait to boost staff's alac numbers back to previous numbers.

For solo open world content, Mirage has been buffed. 14.5k dps (before) > 16.2k (after) according to Lord Hizen's latest video.

Is impossible to say open world damage mirage was buffed when all the numbers just went down. I think it was just the sigil change that boosted the damage giving it access to more stacks of vuln.

[Skyroar.2974]

32 minutes ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

Is impossible to say open world damage mirage was buffed when all the numbers just went down. I think it was just the sigil change that boosted the damage giving it access to more stacks of vuln.

Sigil of Frailty contributed to the buff, yes.

Outside of that sigil, I'm not sure. Staff's ambush DPS was nerfed, but confuse also got overall stronger.

Edited July 7, 2023 by Skyroar.2974